The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

dunnerc · 28-12-2020 05:18PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

Poor enough article really, his rational for not splitting Dublin is identity yet he has no issue amalgating counties because their identity is linked to "Dubs versus the rest".

Thought it was a good article myself

RedDevil55 · 28-12-2020 05:18PM

Enquiring wrote: »

Can anyone confirm where the author of the article is from? I think that might tell us the agenda he's peddling.

Dublin. I found him on Twitter.

dunnerc · 28-12-2020 05:22PM

The White Feather wrote: »

Philly McMahon says the Split Season is a good idea. Maybe another nudge and he might say the same about a Split Dublin?!! It may be getting closer :pac:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1228/1186702-philly-mcmahon-having-split-season-is-a-very-good-idea/

Maybe but i doubt it

Enquiring · 28-12-2020 05:41PM

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Dublin. I found him on Twitter.

Well, that's a surprise to absolutely no one.

Should RTÉ be allowing articles like this to be published on their website? It's a clearly biased article with major flaws in their argument as has been pointed out. I wonder if an article outlining the benefits of splitting Dublin would be put up on their website? :pac:

JeffKenna · 28-12-2020 05:52PM

dunnerc wrote: »

Thought it was a good article myself

Why so?

28-12-2020 06:26PM

Said it before but I’ll say it again, if the GAA take the county thing away then that’s me done with it. I know it won’t matter to them and I won’t be doing it as any kind of protest, I just won’t care any more. I’m not driving around the country to shout for a shower of players from neighbouring counties that I’ve wanted to see lose my whole life.

ooter · 28-12-2020 06:36PM

It's a ridiculous as suggesting Dublin people no longer shout for players from Dublin that they've wanted to see win their whole lives

MayoAreMagic · 31-12-2020 02:55AM

Enquiring wrote: »

Well, that's a surprise to absolutely no one.

Should RTÉ be allowing articles like this to be published on their website? It's a clearly biased article with major flaws in their argument as has been pointed out. I wonder if an article outlining the benefits of splitting Dublin would be put up on their website? :pac:

This is the problem with the press today. The whole premise of the article is fatally flawed. If a child gave that answer, they would be chastised for poor work. Yet it goes to print and the author will continue to write such stuff. If the press were actually driven by quality, they wouldnt get to write another one for a long time.

MayoAreMagic · 31-12-2020 03:10AM

ooter wrote: »

It's a ridiculous as suggesting Dublin people no longer shout for players from Dublin that they've wanted to see win their whole lives

Which in turn is nearly as ridiculous as dublin people who think the government-funded, provincial sized, professional outfit, with a matchday backroom team as big as the squad itself, is the same as the dublin team that the likes of john oleary, brian mullins etc represented.

The real dublin died the day they took funds off the government that nobody else was getting. They became something different after that point and the two arent the same.

If only the gaa had realised that these now infamous volunteers would have done it all anyway, this mess wouldnt have been created...

Strumms · 31-12-2020 04:56AM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Which in turn is nearly as ridiculous as dublin people who think the government-funded, provincial sized, professional outfit, with a matchday backroom team as big as the squad itself, is the same as the dublin team that the likes of john oleary, brian mullins etc represented.

The real dublin died the day they took funds off the government that nobody else was getting. They became something different after that point and the two arent the same.

If only the gaa had realised that these now infamous volunteers would have done it all anyway, this mess wouldnt have been created...

I’m yet to see a background team win any match, let alone an All Ireland.

A ‘professional’ outfit ? Ok, let’s look at the adjective which you’ve used..

‘Professional’

Oxford Languages:

“engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.”

Please inform us as to who in the Dublin playing squad or background/coaching/supporting team do so as their main paid occupation.

Please provide us with verifiable links to support any allegations that people connected and involved in the Dublin squad do so as part of their main profession.

If you accuse somebody of assault, unless you provide the judge with evidence you’ll be laughed out of court... I’m sorry to say, based on what you’ve typed, you are being laughed at here...but if you would be happy to enlighten us again with verifiable evidence that Dublin is ‘professional’ ? ‘’engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.” ??? No ?

beggars_bush · 31-12-2020 09:16AM

The lack of self awareness by Dublin posters in this thread and generally on boards can be fantastic to see.

Roscommon gaa are after raising 900k by selling tickets to try and get a centre for training their teams developed. And it's the second draw that they've had to run to raise 1.6 million.

Yet Dublin could easily get a 9 million loan from central council just to purchase a site in templeogue?

flasher0030 · 31-12-2020 09:58AM

Strumms wrote: »

I’m yet to see a background team win any match, let alone an All Ireland.

A ‘professional’ outfit ? Ok, let’s look at the adjective which you’ve used..

‘Professional’

Oxford Languages:

“engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.”

Please inform us as to who in the Dublin playing squad or background/coaching/supporting team do so as their main paid occupation.

Please provide us with verifiable links to support any allegations that people connected and involved in the Dublin squad do so as part of their main profession.

If you accuse somebody of assault, unless you provide the judge with evidence you’ll be laughed out of court... I’m sorry to say, based on what you’ve typed, you are being laughed at here...but if you would be happy to enlighten us again with verifiable evidence that Dublin is ‘professional’ ? ‘’engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.” ??? No ?

I'm afraid buddy if you're resorting to a play on words and quotes from dictionaries to try to muddy the waters to defend the undefendable - then it's time for you to hang up your boots. The term professional has been labelled on the Dublin football team for a number of years. The meaning to be associated with it is that the team now has the attributes and is run in a similar fashion to a professional full-time association i.e. funding from Government, large background team, team of athletes etc.

You're first sentence shows your naivety. Are you saying that a backroom team doesn't have an important role in winning matches?

tritium · 31-12-2020 10:41AM

Enquiring wrote: »

I'd put a lot of money on the author of that article being from Dublin.

I think the big question we all have to ask ourselves is how we see the future of Gaelic Games. Do we want to continue down the road we're currently on where you need to have access to large resources in order to compete. Dublin have obviously received huge sums in games development funding but they receive about 1.5 million in sponsorship money every year and that's rising. They spend 2 million in wages and salaries. They spend over 1.5 million on team expenses, over 2 million on administration and other expenses and they can purchase Hollystown golf club and spawell for millions of euro without much issue.

It's not only Dublin though, we have seen other counties pumping large sums into their setups. Just not anywhere near the same scale and obviously without the huge assistance from taxpayers and the GAA. But is this what we want? Counties spending huge sums in order to improve standards, is it in any way sustainable? Looking at the debts of some, it clearly isn't. It's only sustainable in Dublin, the resources are there for 4 counties to compete.

Instead of this professional direction we're going down, we have a much fairer and simpler route available to us. We provide each county with the officials and coaches necessary for them to develop hurling and football. This will not only increase standards across the county but also increase the strength of Gaelic Games in terms of numbers also. We will have to have a new championship system as we'll have about 15/16 counties in Leinster but working that out is for a later date.

Will you go away out of that. How many coaches do you want. You keep going on about how dublin gets so much more than the other counties but conveniently ignore that the funding model is different for other counties and that provincial funding supports them also. In 2019 the GAA spent 20m+ on player welfare and games development. This is from their press release for the annual report

The number of coaches in Leinster outside of Dublin has risen from 72 to 118 in the last three years, while remaining static in Dublin but with a reduction in spend of €200,000.

From earlier in the thread Dublin has around 60-70 coaches. So there’s development funding for about 70% more coaches per capita for Leinster than dublin. At what point do you have enough coaches to cover the vast open spaces of Kildare? 5:1? 10:1? Or could it be that the county board in Kildare isn’t really doing a very good job of making the most of available resources. After all, by your reckoning dublin were getting an advantage the moment the funding was switched on (or even before?) so what have the other Leinster counties missed out on doing?

tritium · 31-12-2020 10:49AM

Enquiring wrote: »

Well, that's a surprise to absolutely no one.

Should RTÉ be allowing articles like this to be published on their website? It's a clearly biased article with major flaws in their argument as has been pointed out. I wonder if an article outlining the benefits of splitting Dublin would be put up on their website? :pac:

Nah they’d just do an unbalanced prime time hatchet job then stick that on their website.....

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1076503/

(Cue a few posters on here nodding sagely and swearing that it seems very reasonable to them)

Enquiring · 31-12-2020 12:09PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

This is the problem with the press today. The whole premise of the article is fatally flawed. If a child gave that answer, they would be chastised for poor work. Yet it goes to print and the author will continue to write such stuff. If the press were actually driven by quality, they wouldnt get to write another one for a long time.

Expect far more articles similar to the RTÉ one. Lies, deflection and misrepresentation of facts are all the defenders of the Dublin funding have left.

Enquiring · 31-12-2020 12:25PM

tritium wrote: »

Will you go away out of that. How many coaches do you want. You keep going on about how dublin gets so much more than the other counties but conveniently ignore that the funding model is different for other counties and that provincial funding supports them also. In 2019 the GAA spent 20m+ on player welfare and games development. This is from their press release for the annual report

From earlier in the thread Dublin has around 60-70 coaches. So there’s development funding for about 70% more coaches per capita for Leinster than dublin. At what point do you have enough coaches to cover the vast open spaces of Kildare? 5:1? 10:1? Or could it be that the county board in Kildare isn’t really doing a very good job of making the most of available resources. After all, by your reckoning dublin were getting an advantage the moment the funding was switched on (or even before?) so what have the other Leinster counties missed out on doing?

Dublin are in Leinster. They get funds from the Leinster Council as well. In fact, for many years, the Leinster Council provided Dublin with their own special fund that was entitled the Dublin Coaching Project.

For many years, Dublin had up to 90 coaches while some other counties only had 1. The most any other county had during this period was 6. Again, you can't delete history. The funding for Dublin started in the early 2000's, you want to ignore all figures up to the recent few years.

They're not the only figures you want to ignore though. The Dublin County Board accounts from 2016 are consistently ignored. Why is that? Have you no defence for any of these numbers?

Sponsors

2015 - 1,191,200
2016 - 1,505,106

Dublin team expenses

2015 - 1,558,075
2016 - 1,514,394

Administration expenses

2015 - 974,444
2016 - 1,126,933

Strategic review committee

Income

2015 - 2,592,533
2016 - 2,774,233

Wages and salaries

2015 - 2,117,237
2016 - 2,193,299

Other expenses

2015 - 870,578
2016 - 1,146,419

tritium · 31-12-2020 01:12PM

Enquiring wrote: »

Dublin are in Leinster. They get funds from the Leinster Council as well. In fact, for many years, the Leinster Council provided Dublin with their own special fund that was entitled the Dublin Coaching Project.

For many years, Dublin had up to 90 coaches while some other counties only had 1. The most any other county had during this period was 6. Again, you can't delete history. The funding for Dublin started in the early 2000's, you want to ignore all figures up to the recent few years.

They're not the only figures you want to ignore though. The Dublin County Board accounts from 2016 are consistently ignored. Why is that? Have you no defence for any of these numbers?

Sponsors

2015 - 1,191,200
2016 - 1,505,106

Dublin team expenses

2015 - 1,558,075
2016 - 1,514,394

Administration expenses

2015 - 974,444
2016 - 1,126,933

Strategic review committee

Income

2015 - 2,592,533
2016 - 2,774,233

Wages and salaries

2015 - 2,117,237
2016 - 2,193,299

Other expenses

2015 - 870,578
2016 - 1,146,419

Why would I apologise or explain away that dublin are able to manage sponsorship and commercial affairs properly? Because other counties can’t? Because other counties pretend it’s fundraising then have a public spat with their corporate finders?

Why would I apologise or explain the team expenses for a county that’s aiming to be competitive in dual code and has both men’s and ladies teams competing at the business end of the football when Mayo for example spent 1.6million themselves on their team in 2016?

As you’re well aware from the link I posted earlier the breakout of gdos between dublin and the rest of Leinster is very transparent from the GAA. The split funding model for gdos in dublin is very transparent. I’ve now given you the gaas numbers for coaches- Leinster per capita has 118. What should the number be? You’re the one with all the plans you won’t share, tell us how many coaches Leinster counties outside dublin need to be competitive?

RedDevil55 · 31-12-2020 01:34PM

tritium wrote: »

Why would I apologise or explain the team expenses for a county that’s aiming to be competitive in dual code and has both men’s and ladies teams competing at the business end of the football when Mayo for example spent 1.6million themselves on their team in 2016?

In 2016 the mayo u21s went all the way to an All Ireland final, the hurlers went all the way to to a rackard final, while the seniors were in the championship until October. That included 4 championship games in Croke Park and 1 in London. That's before talking about mileage expenses for players working/studying in Dublin, Galway etc.

You can't just directly compare the Dublin team expenses to other counties as they don't have the same overheads. It's actually astonishing that Dublin are consistently among the biggest spenders annually. I suppose a 29 man backroom team isn't cheap.

Enquiring · 31-12-2020 01:52PM

tritium wrote: »

Why would I apologise or explain away that dublin are able to manage sponsorship and commercial affairs properly? Because other counties can’t? Because other counties pretend it’s fundraising then have a public spat with their corporate finders?

Why would I apologise or explain the team expenses for a county that’s aiming to be competitive in dual code and has both men’s and ladies teams competing at the business end of the football when Mayo for example spent 1.6million themselves on their team in 2016?

As you’re well aware from the link I posted earlier the breakout of gdos between dublin and the rest of Leinster is very transparent from the GAA. The split funding model for gdos in dublin is very transparent. I’ve now given you the gaas numbers for coaches- Leinster per capita has 118. What should the number be? You’re the one with all the plans you won’t share, tell us how many coaches Leinster counties outside dublin need to be competitive?

Who asked you to apologise? The figures prove that Dublin are operating far beyond the limits of other counties. The funding available to Dublin GAA is incredible. Let's not forget, the games development funding came first, this brought increased success to Dublin GAA which in turn attracted increased sponsorship. Spending huge amounts on wages and salaries, they obviously have the ability to hire highly paid marketing personnel.

The spend on team preparation is also far beyond other counties as travel expenses don't have a major impact for Dublin. There's a further 2 million available for administrative and other expenses. The numbers are outlandish. It's clear from the accounts that Dublin are operating with professional level finances. From the funding supplied from taxpayers and the GAA, the sponsorship money and the money clubs receive to pay for coaches, the increase in success for Dublin was always inevitable.

We can't let a county continue operating with this level of funds and just tell others they'll have to up their game. It's not possible and it goes against what our games are all about. It's an amateur sport, competing shouldn't be about how much money you have. The only answer is to split Dublin, the finance is there to support 4 counties easily, the population is there to support 4 counties easily, the facilities are there, the playing numbers are there, the clubs are there. It makes sense.

MayoAreMagic · 31-12-2020 01:57PM

Strumms wrote: »

I’m yet to see a background team win any match, let alone an All Ireland.

A ‘professional’ outfit ? Ok, let’s look at the adjective which you’ve used..

‘Professional’

Oxford Languages:

“engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.”

Please inform us as to who in the Dublin playing squad or background/coaching/supporting team do so as their main paid occupation.

Please provide us with verifiable links to support any allegations that people connected and involved in the Dublin squad do so as part of their main profession.

If you accuse somebody of assault, unless you provide the judge with evidence you’ll be laughed out of court... I’m sorry to say, based on what you’ve typed, you are being laughed at here...but if you would be happy to enlighten us again with verifiable evidence that Dublin is ‘professional’ ? ‘’engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.” ??? No ?

They are all paid and paid very well at that. They try to skirt around it by benefit in kind setups, but they also get paid. If you believe anything else you are either a fool or have a vested interest. Turkeys wont vote for christmas and from what we can see here, they have a vast collection of turkeys in the capital. You seem to think that people should believe what the likes of pat gilroy has to say - one of the main beneficiaries in the charade and dublins answer to donald trump. Are you for real? People arent so stupid man.

Laugh away all you like, what does that actually change? What I said is still true. Your response only shows your own lack of character. Id take my hat off to any dub that has it about them to not tow the party line and just tell the truth.

ShyMets · 31-12-2020 02:59PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They are all paid and paid very well at that. They try to skirt around it by benefit in kind setups, but they also get paid. If you believe anything else you are either a fool or have a vested interest. Turkeys wont vote for christmas and from what we can see here, they have a vast collection of turkeys in the capital. You seem to think that people should believe what the likes of pat gilroy has to say - one of the main beneficiaries in the charade and dublins answer to donald trump. Are you for real? People arent so stupid man.

Laugh away all you like, what does that actually change? What I said is still true. Your response only shows your own lack of character. Id take my hat off to any dub that has it about them to not tow the party line and just tell the truth.

We've missed you

Strumms · 31-12-2020 04:48PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They are all paid and paid very well at that. They try to skirt around it by benefit in kind setups, but they also get paid. If you believe anything else you are either a fool or have a vested interest. Turkeys wont vote for christmas and from what we can see here, they have a vast collection of turkeys in the capital. You seem to think that people should believe what the likes of pat gilroy has to say - one of the main beneficiaries in the charade and dublins answer to donald trump. Are you for real? People arent so stupid man.

Laugh away all you like, what does that actually change? What I said is still true. Your response only shows your own lack of character. Id take my hat off to any dub that has it about them to not tow the party line and just tell the truth.

Provide us with verifiable links, as to who is paid, how much and for doing what... You have made the allegations, so prove it. Let’s all see.

My lack of character ? Right, you certainly are one to be judging character around here, Jesus. :pac:

MayoAreMagic · 31-12-2020 05:42PM

Strumms wrote: »

Provide us with verifiable links, as to who is paid, how much and for doing what... You have made the allegations, so prove it. Let’s all see.

My lack of character ? Right, you certainly are one to be judging character around here, Jesus. :pac:

It is common knowledge that management are paid. You say the dubs arent. Can you prove it?
Also, what exactly is a 'verifiable link' in your mind? Any links to websites for either argument will just be denied...

Strumms · 31-12-2020 05:58PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is common knowledge that management are paid. You say the dubs arent. Can you prove it?
Also, what exactly is a 'verifiable link' in your mind? Any links to websites for either argument will just be denied...

If you accuse someone of something, the burden of proof is on you to share the evidence. You’ve not even attempted to do that.

What’s a verifiable link ? Jesus, Verifiable documentation or information that shows that Dublin players, coaches etc are financially rewarded to play or be involved with their county...

I don’t have to prove anything as I haven’t alleged anything. You on the other hand !

Even if you found a document that suggested they got a free night out with a meal and some drinks at Christmas courtesy of the county board might be a start... imagine that :eek:

MayoAreMagic · 31-12-2020 06:09PM

Strumms wrote: »

If you accuse someone of something, the burden of proof is on you to share the evidence. You’ve not even attempted to do that.

What’s a verifiable link ? Jesus, Verifiable documentation or information that shows that Dublin players, coaches etc are financially rewarded to play or be involved with their county...

I don’t have to prove anything as I haven’t alleged anything. You on the other hand !

Even if you found a document that suggested they got a free night out with a meal and some drinks at Christmas courtesy of the county board might be a start... imagine that :eek:

Well you have alledged that no person involved with dublin is paid, to be fair. You sre the guy who is hung up on verifiable evidence, so will you be practicing what you preach?

Strumms · 31-12-2020 06:17PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well you have alledged that no person involved with dublin is paid, to be fair. You sre the guy who is hung up on verifiable evidence, so will you be practicing what you preach?

No, you made the allegation of something specific to do with Dublin GAA. You were requested to back that up. You can’t or won’t.

If you a accuse me of murder, the burden of proof is on you, not on me to prove my innocence, on you to prove I’m guilty.... simple. You don’t understand ok, don’t ‘get it’ ok, but that’s how it is, sorry about that.

MayoAreMagic · 31-12-2020 06:36PM

Strumms wrote: »

No, you made the allegation of something specific to do with Dublin GAA. You were requested to back that up. You can’t or won’t.

If you a accuse me of murder, the burden of proof is on you, not on me to prove my innocence, on you to prove I’m guilty.... simple. You don’t understand ok, don’t ‘get it’ ok, but that’s how it is, sorry about that.

And you made the opposing allegation...
You are also the guy hung up of proof, and the burden of proof, so by all means, practice it.

Personally, I recognise that what you are referencing is relating to a court of law, which this is not, just as I am not on trial here either. I realise also, that reams of proof has been offered as to why dublin are successful now, mainly due to financial doping, and yet people still refuse to accept it, so proof on here means little.
However, you seem to be a big believer in it, so by all means, get to it.

To my mind, if you truly believe that dublin's staff dont get paid, then you are a very naive person

ArmaniJeanss · 31-12-2020 06:46PM

Enquiring wrote: »

We can't let a county continue operating with this level of funds and just tell others they'll have to up their game. It's not possible and it goes against what our games are all about. It's an amateur sport, competing shouldn't be about how much money you have. The only answer is to split Dublin, the finance is there to support 4 counties easily, the population is there to support 4 counties easily, the facilities are there, the playing numbers are there, the clubs are there. It makes sense.

You are obviously entitled to your overall opinion on the matter.

But also you shouldn't be allowed make up your own facts. You aren't proposing splitting Dublin up into 4 counties - you are proposing splitting Dublin up into 4 new regional teams with as yet undefined non-county borders.

Dublin as a gaa county ceases to exist. No-one in Dublin gets to play for their county again, they play for a new artificial regional construct. That's your plan.

Enquiring · 31-12-2020 06:51PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

And you made the opposing allegation...
You are also the guy hung up of proof, and the burden of proof, so by all means, practice it.

Personally, I recognise that what you are referencing is relating to a court of law, which this is not, just as I am not on trial here either. I realise also, that reams of proof has been offered as to why dublin are successful now, mainly due to financial doping, and yet people still refuse to accept it, so proof on here means little.
However, you seem to be a big believer in it, so by all means, get to it.

To my mind, if you truly believe that dublin's staff dont get paid, then you are a very naive person

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of where the 2 million plus per year on wages and salaries go.

ShyMets · 31-12-2020 06:53PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

You are obviously entitled to your overall opinion on the matter.

But also you shouldn't be allowed make up your own facts. You aren't proposing splitting Dublin up into 4 counties - you are proposing splitting Dublin up into 4 new regional teams with as yet undefined non-county borders.

Dublin as a gaa county ceases to exist. No-one in Dublin gets to play for their county again, they play for a new artificial regional construct. That's your plan.

A plan it must be remembered which benefits only a handful of Counties.

And does nothing for the rest. But thats ok once Dublin aren't winning

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1