The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

StupidLikeAFox

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Kerry are well looked after. Just look at who sponsors them and the amount of money they have got.

They may not get what Dublin got but to say they got little assistance is false.

Kerry don't match to what Dublin get in sponsorship and they get a tiny fraction of what Dublin get in development funding (in either absolute or per capita terms), so not sure what point your trying to make

tritium

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Kerry don't match to what Dublin get in sponsorship and they get a tiny fraction of what Dublin get in development funding (in either absolute or per capita terms), so not sure what point your trying to make

Kerry have matched and exceeded dublins sponsorship for many years. It’s only in recent years as dublin became successful and kerry waned that the balance shifted. They have a sponsor who doesn’t blink at writing them a million quid cheque for their COE

ArielAtom

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Ballyboden employ a manager, a full time performance director and a gdo (maybe two) which is subsidised by the gaa. Kilmacud have two full time coaches also, one of these is probably subsidised by the gaa

Ballyboden employ a part-time general manager who looks after the general running of the club. There is a Director of Coaching and a GDO. There is no performance director. The director of coaching is by default a club employed GDO with a different title. The GDO is part funded by the GAA.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Kerry have matched and exceeded dublins sponsorship for many years. It’s only in recent years as dublin became successful and kerry waned that the balance shifted. They have a sponsor who doesn’t blink at writing them a million quid cheque for their COE

How much did Dublin buy Spawell and Hollystown golf club for? Dublin received 1.5 million in sponsorship in 2016. They get 1 million a year from AIG alone. How many other counties come close to spending almost 6 million per year on salaries, team and administrative expenses?

Enquiring

ArielAtom wrote: »

Ballyboden employ a part-time general manager who looks after the general running of the club. There is a Director of Coaching and a GDO. There is no performance director. The director of coaching is by default a club employed GDO with a different title. The GDO is part funded by the GAA.

Since when have Ballyboden st enda's had a director of coaching?

Enquiring

Enquiring wrote: »

Since when have Ballyboden st enda's had a director of coaching?

The answer won't be forthcoming so I'll let you all know. It was 2001.

Strangely, Ballyboden st Enda's saw a major upturn in fortunes in the years after this appointment. It's almost as if improving coaching structures leads to improved standards.

The money started flowing into Dublin GAA at around the same time. Again, improved coaching structures through large investments led to increased success.

If only people knew that pumping large sums into talent development would lead to better results. There could be a multi million dollar industry born.

the kelt

I’m not quite sure how kerry making good use and getting good sponsorship justifies the amount the GAA themselves spend on Dublin.

But it’s good to know that the obsession of Kerry and Dublin being essentially what the GAA is all about is alive and well.

32 other county teams say hello.

RIGOLO

Interesting article here from a great sportsman/warrior talking about playing crunch Championship matches in the opponents backyard.

You want to play in the hardest places against the toughest opposition and (Thomand Park) that's definitely up there as one of the hardest places to go.”

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-40196277.html

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

How much did Dublin buy Spawell and Hollystown golf club for? Dublin received 1.5 million in sponsorship in 2016. They get 1 million a year from AIG alone. How many other counties come close to spending almost 6 million per year on salaries, team and administrative expenses?

How much would that land cost you in Ballina? How much could you rent it for?

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

The answer won't be forthcoming so I'll let you all know. It was 2001.

Strangely, Ballyboden st Enda's saw a major upturn in fortunes in the years after this appointment. It's almost as if improving coaching structures leads to improved standards.

The money started flowing into Dublin GAA at around the same time. Again, improved coaching structures through large investments led to increased success.

If only people knew that pumping large sums into talent development would lead to better results. There could be a multi million dollar industry born.

Yes now you get it! Structures improve standards. Slowly and progressively over time! It doesn’t win you ladies Ai or under 21 AIs in the years before it’s invested and embedded. It doesn’t make your team better overnight. It needs planning and work and the careful use of resources. That’s what the extra 30% in funding for the Meaths needs to develop. That’s what the 230 games development staff (plus at least 35 more added for Leinster since that figure) available to everyone except dublin need to be focused on as part of a planned approach

Leinster isn’t going to be competitive overnight because frankly, and no fault of dublins, standards in Leinster are abysmal at the moment. It’s a laughing stock the way dublin once was and couldn’t dream of an AI in the next few years. And reading posters on here who won’t consider any solution to build those structures it’s obvious why, even when Leinster counties have population and infrastructure advantages over many counties, advantages that we keep hearing make dublin so unfair. The only way to address that is build structures over a long timeframe, exactly what dublin did over years

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

How much would that land cost you in Ballina? How much could you rent it for?

Dublin GAA paid 9 million for Spawell and the cost for Hollystown golf club was over 10 million? That's extraordinary buying power especially when you look at what Dublin's expenses reach every year. I assume you can't find a county that comes close to the 6 million spent on salaries and expenses every year?

tritium

the kelt wrote: »

I’m not quite sure how kerry making good use and getting good sponsorship justifies the amount the GAA themselves spend on Dublin.

But it’s good to know that the obsession of Kerry and Dublin being essentially what the GAA is all about is alive and well.

32 other county teams say hello.

It’s good to know you’ve no issue with the sponsorship teams get, including I assume dublin

No issue with provincial councils making the AI journey a bit handier either? Is that fair on other provinces or counties?

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

Dublin GAA paid 9 million for Spawell and the cost for Hollystown golf club was over 10 million? That's extraordinary buying power especially when you look at what Dublin's expenses reach every year. I assume you can't find a county that comes close to the 6 million spent on salaries and expenses every year?

Again what would it cost elsewhere?

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

The answer won't be forthcoming so I'll let you all know. It was 2001.

Strangely, Ballyboden st Enda's saw a major upturn in fortunes in the years after this appointment. It's almost as if improving coaching structures leads to improved standards.

The money started flowing into Dublin GAA at around the same time. Again, improved coaching structures through large investments led to increased success.

If only people knew that pumping large sums into talent development would lead to better results. There could be a multi million dollar industry born.

Can you just clarify. Is your issue with:

The dublin county teams
The clubs in dublin
Games development for the population in dublin

Three very different things, with very different requirements and costs associated, some of which other counties receive at a provincial level I believe. For some reason your postings mix them all together as though they’re one and the same

They’re not

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Yes now you get it! Structures improve standards. Slowly and progressively over time! It doesn’t win you ladies Ai or under 21 AIs in the years before it’s invested and embedded. It doesn’t make your team better overnight. It needs planning and work and the careful use of resources. That’s what the extra 30% in funding for the Meaths needs to develop. That’s what the 230 games development staff (plus at least 35 more added for Leinster since that figure) available to everyone except dublin need to be focused on as part of a planned approach

Leinster isn’t going to be competitive overnight because frankly, and no fault of dublins, standards in Leinster are abysmal at the moment. It’s a laughing stock the way dublin once was and couldn’t dream of an AI in the next few years. And reading posters on here who won’t consider any solution to build those structures it’s obvious why, even when Leinster counties have population and infrastructure advantages over many counties, advantages that we keep hearing make dublin so unfair. The only way to address that is build structures over a long timeframe, exactly what dublin did over years

Finally, a Dublin poster admits it. Structures help standards, receiving huge sums of money for professional coaches and most importantly, having paid officials overseeing it will, of course, lead to better results. We have seen it across the board with Dublin GAA and there are examples from numerous other sports. That Dublin were given the finance to put these structures in place while others were denied is the scandal.

The money being pumped into Dublin began in the early 2000's. Dublin had never won an All Ireland u21 title or Women's All Ireland prior to then. Interestingly, they've won 5 of each since then. A clear illustration of the difference professional structures can make.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

Finally, a Dublin poster admits it. Structures help standards, receiving huge sums of money for professional coaches and most importantly, having paid officials overseeing it will, of course, lead to better results. We have seen it across the board with Dublin GAA and there are examples from numerous other sports. That Dublin were given the finance to put these structures in place while others were denied is the scandal.

The money being pumped into Dublin began in the early 2000's. Dublin had never won an All Ireland u21 title or Women's All Ireland prior to then. Interestingly, they've won 5 of each since then. A clear illustration of the difference professional structures can make.

Unless they had a time machine to fully embed this in 2003 youre talking absolute pony there

Look, it’s pretty simple really.

Structure help in any sport- nothing new there. Kerry and Kilkenny proved that in men’s football and hurling , another days debate as to how they got there.

Dublin looked to build those structures and sought funding to do so. It was granted, everyone knew about it

A lot of people laughed at dublin for a bit while they set this up, basically standing still or even going backwards themselves

Surprise surprise the thing that should work did work

Cue lots of folks complaining it’s unfair but still not getting their own house in order

GAA make more funds and resources available to other counties because that’s what they’re lacking apparently

Still no one wants to do the thing that works.....

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Again what would it cost elsewhere?

You can inform us of that if you wish, maybe start a thread on it?

Touching on what we discussed about professional structures in place. The professional coaches were of course very important but just as important were the paid officers.

Dublin had a strategic development officer appointed, a hurling officer, regional officers and marketing officers. The over 2 million spent on wages and salaries may be explained here.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Can you just clarify. Is your issue with:

The dublin county teams
The clubs in dublin
Games development for the population in dublin

Three very different things, with very different requirements and costs associated, some of which other counties receive at a provincial level I believe. For some reason your postings mix them all together as though they’re one and the same

They’re not

My issue is with the huge level of funding and resources one county has been provided with at the cost of all others. A professional organisation should not be competing in an amateur association.

Dublin county teams get their players from clubs who received the services of the professional coaches. Everything is linked. Dublin are funded to the level of a province but they are still apart of Leinster despite their demands to be treated differently.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

Unless they had a time machine to fully embed this in 2003 youre talking absolute pony there

Look, it’s pretty simple really.

Structure help in any sport- nothing new there. Kerry and Kilkenny proved that in men’s football and hurling , another days debate as to how they got there.

Dublin looked to build those structures and sought funding to do so. It was granted, everyone knew about it

A lot of people laughed at dublin for a bit while they set this up, basically standing still or even going backwards themselves

Surprise surprise the thing that should work did work

Cue lots of folks complaining it’s unfair but still not getting their own house in order

GAA make more funds and resources available to other counties because that’s what they’re lacking apparently

Still no one wants to do the thing that works.....

You don't think a large sum of money can help improve a team? It certainly helped the 2003 u21 footballers and most definitely helped the 2010 women's footballers win their first All Ireland.

Why did Dublin have their structures financed by all of us while anyone else who asked for funding had the door slammed in their face? It was a Dublin only scheme that cost millions. They were competing in competitions against teams living off scraps, how could it not work?

A county with by far the largest population were given by far the largest amount of resources. They then went on to win nearly 100 titles across the board in 2 decades. The only surprise is that it was only 100 titles.

It can't be justified and that's why even those who didn't agree with the split are coming round to the idea that it's the only solution.

the kelt

tritium wrote: »

It’s good to know you’ve no issue with the sponsorship teams get, including I assume dublin

No issue with provincial councils making the AI journey a bit handier either? Is that fair on other provinces or counties?

Again I’ve said it previously, absolutely no issues with county boards getting as much sponsorship as they can and spending it wisely, it’s getting excessive handouts on top of that from the very people supposed to be running an organisation for all thats the issue

Let’s be honest, I don’t think Dublin are in any position to be claiming others have a handy route through provincials?

It’s hardly any Munster Countys fault there’s only 5 other counties in all fairness, Only way to rectify that is to scrap the provinces altogether.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

You don't think a large sum of money can help improve a team? It certainly helped the 2003 u21 footballers and most definitely helped the 2010 women's footballers win their first All Ireland.

Why did Dublin have their structures financed by all of us while anyone else who asked for funding had the door slammed in their face? It was a Dublin only scheme that cost millions. They were competing in competitions against teams living off scraps, how could it not work?

A county with by far the largest population were given by far the largest amount of resources. They then went on to win nearly 100 titles across the board in 2 decades. The only surprise is that it was only 100 titles.

It can't be justified and that's why even those who didn't agree with the split are coming round to the idea that it's the only solution.

I suppose it got the ladies to the final in 2003, 2004 and 2009 too. Funny how in spite of helping the u21s so much in 2003 it took so long to benefit the ladies. Was it the reason they didn’t win it again from 2010 until 2017 too? Not very effective it would seem if that’s the case

Given the history of the funding, what was the funding imbalance in 2003 when the mens senior team were busy losing to Laois?

The White Feather

OK Lads and Ladies, I have followed this thread all year with interest. As It is Christmas, is there anything that we can all agree on?

Maybe publish a Boards document then like the Good Friday Agreement? :pac:

Is there any sentence that all would agree with?

Maybe...

"Dublin football team is without a doubt the best ever to play the game but they may have certain advantages that need to be addressed. Their success is due to a lot of hard work from all in Dublin and while Dublin do not accept things are unfair, they agree to try to make the Championship agreeable to all."

Although like Michael Collins, any Dubliner signing the above may be signing his death warrant!!

So consider this a proposal document or white paper as they call it. I am trying to bring us all together in this time of peace and goodwill.

Maybe others can post a better wording that everyone can agree with?!!

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

I suppose it got the ladies to the final in 2003, 2004 and 2009 too. Funny how in spite of helping the u21s so much in 2003 it took so long to benefit the ladies. Was it the reason they didn’t win it again from 2010 until 2017 too? Not very effective it would seem if that’s the case

Given the history of the funding, what was the funding imbalance in 2003 when the mens senior team were busy losing to Laois?

How do you know that without it Dublin ladies wouldn't even have won Leinster? You're missing the very simple point that it's not the success that Dublin have had that's the issue. It's the funding pumped into them. Success off the back of it is inevitable but the problem is one county was professionalised while every other county operated at an amateur level.

And obviously, the money was pumped into underage structures, the reason for this was the Dublin County board weren't taking kindly to being bested by other counties on a level playing field at senior level. It was before loses to Laois and Westmeth, back when Kildare and Meath were beating them in the 90's. The course of history was changed by Bailey going begging to Bertie.

ShyMets

Folks. It Christmas Eve. How about a 48 hour truce and we go back arguing about this after Stephens Day

wirelessdude01

ooter wrote: »

Dublin senior hurlers are no closer to winning an all Ireland and the funding hasn't stopped other counties in the country from winning Liam.

Well if you think JPs money isn't being put to good use in Limerick then you are sadly mistaken.

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

Folks. It Christmas Eve. How about a 48 hour truce and we go back arguing about this after Stephens Day

I'm finished work soon so I won't be posting anyway. This issue won't be going away though. The campaign for fairness will continue. Happy Christmas.

RIGOLO

ShyMets wrote: »

Folks. It Christmas Eve. How about a 48 hour truce and we go back arguing about this after Stephens Day

typical Dub , has to get the dig in .. Stephens Day .. its obvious your referring to Stephen Cluxton and just rubbing it in ... :p:p

Im with you on the truce.
Since the 4th century when the Persian king Darius sought truce with Alexander The Great , all warriors of honour of every code have honoured a truce .

dunnerc

Enquiring wrote: »

I'm finished work soon so I won't be posting anyway. This issue won't be going away though. The campaign for fairness will continue. Happy Christmas.

Thats some job you have !

The Golden Miller

Enquiring wrote: »

And obviously, the money was pumped into underage structures, the reason for this was the Dublin County board weren't taking kindly to being bested by other counties on a level playing field at senior level. It was before loses to Laois and Westmeth, back when Kildare and Meath were beating them in the 90's. The course of history was changed by Bailey going begging to Bertie.

Exactly. Dublin fans don't want to hear about it, but their success is tainted, or the achievement lessened, in my book anyway. This Dublin team is often compared to the great Kerry team of the late 70's/80's, in terms of success, that they are just an incredibly talented bunch. I don't think it's a fair comparison. That Kerry team were pound for pound the most successful team, when all else was equal. That's what made Kerry's achievement remarkable.

Infact, what we seen last year, was that Kerry were a match for Dublin, and had they held their nerve should of won the all-Ireland final. What's incredible is that Kerry are competing on Dublins level effectively on raw talent alone. Talent verses the well oiled streamlined Dublin project. Had the Kerry players been fast tracked onto professional strength and conditioning programmes since they went senior, they would probably be quite a distance ahead of Dublin. This is what's ruining the game. The playing field is no longer even

JeffKenna

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Exactly. Dublin fans don't want to hear about it, but their success is tainted, or the achievement lessened, in my book anyway. This Dublin team is often compared to the great Kerry team of the late 70's/80's, in terms of success, that they are just an incredibly talented bunch. I don't think it's a fair comparison. That Kerry team were pound for pound the most successful team, when all else was equal. That's what made Kerry's achievement remarkable.

Infact, what we seen last year, was that Kerry were a match for Dublin, and had they held their nerve should of won the all-Ireland final. What's incredible is that Kerry are competing on Dublins level effectively on raw talent alone. Talent verses the well oiled streamlined Dublin project. Had the Kerry players been fast tracked onto professional strength and conditioning programmes since they went senior, they would probably be quite a distance ahead of Dublin. This is what's ruining the game. The playing field is no longer even

Kerry were only a match for Dublin when Dublin were down to 14 players. They got destroyed in the replay 15 v 15.