The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

tritium

ClanofLams wrote: »

Cork,Down,Donegal, Derry, Dublin, Meath, Kerry, Galway, Armagh, Tyrone - ten teams, all won All Irelands in the last three decades. It was an estimate off the top of my head. Important to say too there is far more interest in competitive championships even in the smaller counties who are unlikely to be contesting them - see tv viewership.

Two counties won their first All Ireland in the 1990s, two counties won their first All Ireland in the 2000s.

You're seriously delusional if you think the next three decades under the current structures will see anything less than Dublin winning 25 titles. They have lost two championship games in ten years, they are growing the gap and the data reflects their player base advantage is growing considerably.

That data is far superior evidence than posters throwing out old cliches about sporting cycles and ups and downs or nonsense about how Michael Fitzsimons (excellent defender notwithstanding) will be difficult to replace when Dublin have managed to replace peak Rory O'Carroll, peak Jack McCaffrey, Paul Flynn, Connolly, the Brogans etc and not miss a step.

Dublin and Kerry have shared 2/3s of the AIs in the last 21 years. But for Tyrone it would be higher. I did an analysis for one of these threads a while back that showed that that consistency in Kerry was actually the norm through time either the 90s being a significant aberration

By all means lie to yourself but the data is very clear. An odd upset here or there doesn’t mean the AI is balanced or competitive through history. The situation is even worse with provincials, with Munster being the worst offender

harpsman

ShyMets wrote: »

But you're basically admitting that spilting Dublin will help only a small number of teams.

I honestly don't get the logic in this. A split does nothing for the majority of counties

The logic is that not everyone is motivated by selfishness like Dublin fans. Some people just love sport and want to see a more fair and entertaining.
I know someone from Kilkenny who thinks Dublin should be split and funds distributed a bit more fairly

Bass Reeves

tritium wrote: »

How often do you think the gdo in the big dublin clubs is seen by any particular group? Ours has been helpful with the likes of YouTube videos for the volunteer mentors but tbh it’s not as if the groups I’m involved with get his time that regularly. He’s busy in the schools and so on alright as it should be but he’s by no means available to everyone all the time

I somehow get the idea that some posters have this idea that dublin clubs are like training machines with professional coaches spending hours every week with each kid. It’s nothing of the kind, nor can it be- whether you have 500 kids spread across one group or 5 groups theres still only so much time available and no club has a surplus of coaches that I’m aware of

You obviously do not understand the logistics of coaching

tritium wrote: »

Dublin and Kerry have shared 2/3s of the AIs in the last 21 years. But for Tyrone it would be higher. I did an analysis for one of these threads a while back that showed that that consistency in Kerry was actually the norm through time either the 90s being a significant aberration

By all means lie to yourself but the data is very clear. An odd upset here or there doesn’t mean the AI is balanced or competitive through history. The situation is even worse with provincials, with Munster being the worst offender

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Kerry that at present have a population of 10% of Dublin. Even twenty years ago there populations was hardly 20% of Dublin. You seem obsessed with them. It seems they are stuck in your craw

tritium

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You obviously do not understand the logistics of coaching




You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Kerry

You obviously don’t have an argument anymore, since you’ve been reduced to one liners at this stage


But do educate me on coaching. How many hours per child per week does our gdo provide. How many hours per child per week does a gdo in say mayo and Meath provide?

Given that games promotion personnel seen to about right numbers in dublin on a per capita basis, how many children per week does a dublin based one deal with? How many does a Mayo and Meath based on deal with?

To ensure every child in the country has the same exposure and opportunity to be part of the GAA, what is the right ratio of these resources per county. Is it per capita? Per child? Per player?

Give the games promotion staff are around 300 strong and 70 are in dublin, how are the other 230 funded? Are they cheaper than the dublin ones?

Go on educate me if you have all the answers

Enquiring

olestoepoke wrote: »

Why not let cork and Kerry amalgamate? Or Galway and mayo? or 3 counties join up to challenge. Silly I know but no more outrages than asking Dublin to split. It'll never happen in a million years no matter how much you pontificate on an Internet forum or imagine some kind of "momentum".

Why should counties be amalgamated because one county was overfunded for 2 decades?

Enquiring

kilns wrote: »

I see Monaghan have made two big appointments to their back room team, Donie Buckley and the Head of Athletic Performance of Ulster rugby has now joined Monaghan as head of Athletic performance.

I am from Monaghan myself and always want to them do well but I dont want to hear complaints about Dublin having Brian Cullen in place when counties like Monaghan can make big appointments like this too

Mongahan is a different animal in comparison to Dublin in that football is the only show in town in 95% of the county with regards to sport. So Games development would need to be a different strategy there as it is in Dublin, something like upskilling coaches/parents already in clubs etc. But as I have always said, development should be centralised and run by experts

Do Monaghan come close to this level of funding?

The Dublin county board accounts for 2016 state that Dublin pay over 2 million in wages and salaries every year. They received sponsorship money of over 1.5 million in 2016. They also had a team expenses figure of over 1.5 million. Administrative expenses of 1.1 million, other expenses of 1.1 million.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

No you haven’t

I asked you for detail- what’s the basis of allocation for example?

Still waiting, I suspect you don’t actually have any idea what the answer is

I've submitted my ideas elsewhere and I outlined them here for you. Can you even state that Dublin were over funded?

Bass Reeves

tritium wrote: »

You obviously don’t have an argument anymore, since you’ve been reduced to one liners at this stage


But do educate me on coaching. How many hours per child per week does our gdo provide. How many hours per child per week does a gdo in say mayo and Meath provide?

Given that games promotion personnel seen to about right numbers in dublin on a per capita basis, how many children per week does a dublin based one deal with? How many does a Mayo and Meath based on deal with?

To ensure every child in the country has the same exposure and opportunity to be part of the GAA, what is the right ratio of these resources per county. Is it per capita? Per child? Per player?

Give the games promotion staff are around 300 strong and 70 are in dublin, how are the other 230 funded? Are they cheaper than the dublin ones?

Go on educate me if you have all the answers

I have explained the issues already. It quite simple clubs V geographical areas explains it all. You do not need a degree to understand it...........unless you are from Dublin

Enquiring

Lucy8080 wrote: »

Nobody gives a toss about lower/middling counties who seldom if ever get an All-Ireland.

Those Counties who knew they could/would be in with a chance of winning an All-Ireland, never gave a toss for the also rans.

Every-one of those Counties (who won/ were in with a chance every year) never raised a whisper about the also rans. This was when "The Dubs" were a laughing stock.

Beating The Dubs in any Code/level of the sport ,was an added celebration for those Counties!

The also rans?.....If people/journalists were standing up for them (the also rans) decade's ago...I would take their views seriously .

Nobody complained about Pat Spillane having 8 All Ireland medals.

Nearly 100 titles across codes for Dublin GAA post funding. It's not just men's senior football that has been affected.

Enquiring

ClanofLams wrote: »

One positive thing for Dublin that would come out of dividing it is more players getting the chance to play top level football. There are almost certainly players in Dublin who never made a Championship performance who would be stalwarts of their county team in the vast majority of counties.

It would be a major plus, especially at underage. More areas will see their local players compete at inter county level. Can only be good for the promotion of Gaelic Games.

ClanofLams

tritium wrote: »

Dublin and Kerry have shared 2/3s of the AIs in the last 21 years. But for Tyrone it would be higher. I did an analysis for one of these threads a while back that showed that that consistency in Kerry was actually the norm through time either the 90s being a significant aberration

By all means lie to yourself but the data is very clear. An odd upset here or there doesn’t mean the AI is balanced or competitive through history. The situation is even worse with provincials, with Munster being the worst offender

Yes there was a good Kerry team and now we have a decade of Dublin dominance which is the topic of discussion, hardly a good point you are making. As noted the 90s and 00s both had two teams to break through winning their first All Ireland, Galway and Cork also taking a title in each decade.

Have you been one of the posters who has suggested there are cycles in sport and Dublin’s will naturally? If so, it’s deeply ironic you suggest I am lying to myself with data when data clearly shows Dublin dominance is here to stay. Haven’t read back your posts so maybe you’re one of the few Dublin realists here.

Enquiring

ClanofLams wrote: »

I think there's the possibility to restore a competitive Leinster championship where if Laois or Westmeath have a very good crop they can win. It will remain very rare, but the importance of a glimmer of hope it provides for more days out like they had in 2000s shouldn't be underestimated. Kildare and Meath should be competitive on a regular basis, not saying they don't have work to do.

Outside of Leinster I think something like maybe 10/11 different counties have won the All Ireland in the last three decades (which includes a decade Dublin almost entirely dominated) and 4/5 other counties have made finals.

So I wouldn't agree at that it only improves things for a small number of counties, it's entirely possible for example that if Down have a very good crop again in the next decade as they has in the 1990s and in 2010 when they lost by a point they could be competitive in an All Ireland final.

Offaly, Meath, Kildare, Laois, Westmeath won Leinster titles just before and during the overfunding of Dublin. 21 counties have won provincial titles since 1992. We need to promote our games in weaker counties, give them appropriate funding. Overfunding the county with the biggest population and advantages is ridiculous when you think of it.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

10 or 11? Are you having a laugh with statistics there? The o ly competitive window in that 30 years was the 90s, largely because the great Kerry and dublin teams had disappeared and ulster was on the rise. In the 90s Kerry and dublin both won a single AI, which is an outlier. In the 21 years since between them they’ve won 14, and without Micky Harte it would be more like 17

You’re seriously delusional if you trying to paint the last 30 years as a model to follow, or pretend that the AI was an aspiration for smaller teams pre this dublin team. I’ve already shown that in the last two decades how much competitiveness each province had. Not surprisingly it’s not Leinster that looks dead and buried by that yardstick

Most counties were a rabble for a good few decades. Things had changed, some Ulster teams were emerging from a 30 year war, standards were increasing across the board. All provincial championships were open competitions. Unfortunately, a fair championship where many teams competed was short lived.

Bass Reeves

ClanofLams wrote: »

Yes there was a good Kerry team and now we have a decade of Dublin dominance which is the topic of discussion, hardly a good point you are making. As noted the 90s and 00s both had two teams to break through winning their first All Ireland, Galway and Cork also taking a title in each decade.

Have you been one of the posters who has suggested there are cycles in sport and Dublin’s will naturally? If so, it’s deeply ironic you suggest I am lying to myself with data when data clearly shows Dublin dominance is here to stay. Haven’t read back your posts so maybe you’re one of the few Dublin realists here.

For the last three days this thread is the only place on boards he posted before that he had a few posts before he was obsessed with Dublin dominance of Leinster.

Maybe he's a Dublin GDO afraid he lose his job if funding ceased. He wrong Dublin is financially. Secure enough to keep paying them

tobefrank321

What has Kerry got to do with Dublin dominance? Kerry did it fairly with little assistance from the GAA. When Kerry didn't win an AI from 1986-1996, did the GAA try to fix it so Kerry could go back to winning every couple of years again? Of course they didn't.

And they play about 75% of their games away from Kerry. They also have relatively few paid GDOs and don't have a professional administration.

tobefrank321

Enquiring wrote: »

Most counties were a rabble for a good few decades. Things had changed, some Ulster teams were emerging from a 30 year war, standards were increasing across the board. All provincial championships were open competitions. Unfortunately, a fair championship where many teams competed was short lived.

There's no other sport where the administrators did everything in their power to help one team win.

Enquiring

tobefrank321 wrote: »

There's no other sport where the administrators did everything in their power to help one team win.

Yes, the GAA have a lot to answer for but you have to remember the role of Bertie Ahern in this. He didn't have a bank account but he knew where the money was and how to direct it into Dublin GAA's pockets.

kilns

Enquiring wrote: »

Do Monaghan come close to this level of funding?

The Dublin county board accounts for 2016 state that Dublin pay over 2 million in wages and salaries every year. They received sponsorship money of over 1.5 million in 2016. They also had a team expenses figure of over 1.5 million. Administrative expenses of 1.1 million, other expenses of 1.1 million.

Answer the question asked of you or are you just a liar who shouldn't be taken seriously here

Enquiring

kilns wrote: »

Answer the question asked of you or are you just a liar who shouldn't be taken seriously here

The poster who demanded an answer did so previously in relation to the wages Dublin administer. I answered him and then he disappeared. I told him I'd give him an answer for this query when he had the manners to acknowledge the figures I provided for him previously and to answer the question I posed. I'm sticking with this but if you don't think I have the answer to the question then you're badly mistaken. Of course, when I supply it, you will just ignore it and continue denying Dublin's over funding and the effect it has had across the board.

kilns

Enquiring wrote: »

The poster who demanded an answer did so previously in relation to the wages Dublin administer. I answered him and then he disappeared. I told him I'd give him an answer for this query when he had the manners to acknowledge the figures I provided for him previously and to answer the question I posed. I'm sticking with this but if you don't think I have the answer to the question then you're badly mistaken. Of course, when I supply it, you will just ignore it and continue denying Dublin's over funding and the effect it has had across the board.

Are you deflecting on purpose. I'm referring to your statements on Dublin clubs and multiple coaches they have and even full time coaching directors over them. I asked you to name the clubs

Enquiring

kilns wrote: »

Are you deflecting on purpose. I'm referring to your statements on Dublin clubs and multiple coaches they have and even full time coaching directors over them. I asked you to name the clubs

I've told you numerous times now as to when that answer will be forthcoming. Get onto your buddy to reply to my post.

kilns

Enquiring wrote: »

I've told you numerous times now as to when that answer will be forthcoming. Get onto your buddy to reply to my post.

So you won't answer a separate question by a separate poster because you can't

We have therefore established you make stuff up and anything you post should be taken with a pinch of salt

seligehgit

Bambi wrote: »

Name the clubs

Name the counties

Give the differences in finances

kilns wrote: »

name these clubs, the biggest club in Dublin catering for a serious number of kids have two full time coaches.

As is the norm with every club, there is a committee who oversees the coaches and whom they report to

kilns wrote: »

I dont deny that, however Cork wasted millions on a vanity project for their leader which could have been better spent.

As I reminded other posters, you post stuff and then when challenged duck and dive. Name the clubs please

kilns wrote: »

Not engaging with you until you provide proof on your statements

Name the clubs.........

kilns wrote: »

name the clubs...

Enquiring wrote: »

You dropped out when you were unable to answer anything earlier in the thread. Get onto your buddy to answer the questions posed to him and them I'll answer that.

kilns wrote: »

answer the question, name the clubs.............

kilns wrote: »

answer the question, name the clubs from your claim...............

kilns wrote: »

Answer the question, name the clubs or did you just make it up.........

kilns wrote: »

Answer the question asked of you or are you just a liar who shouldn't be taken seriously here

kilns wrote: »

Are you deflecting on purpose. I'm referring to your statements on Dublin clubs and multiple coaches they have and even full time coaching directors over them. I asked you to name the clubs

Mod Note

Please drop this line of questioning.

It's borderline badgering the witness and derailing the thread at this stage

The poster has stated the bolded.

You are free to draw your own conclusions re his/her failure to name the clubs.

kilns

seligehgit wrote: »

Mod Note

Please drop this line of questioning.

It's borderline badgering the witness and derailing the thread at this stage

The poster has stated the bolded.

You are free to draw your own conclusions re his/her failure to name the clubs.

Ok sure, we have established he made a statement which was clearly false and I accept he has acknowledged he made it up

End of this line of questioning

We can move on

Enquiring

kilns wrote: »

So you won't answer a separate question by a separate poster because you can't

We have therefore established you make stuff up and anything you post should be taken with a pinch of salt

I provide evidence for my posts. You can question the Dublin county board accounts, the GAA's accounts or whatever you like but you'll need to take it up with them if you think their records are off. Anyway, let's hope the poster comes back to me and we can clear everything up.

ShamoBuc

Mod Note

Enquiring and kilns, both of ye have received Yellows tonight and both have continued to post on the topic Despite a Mod Note telling ye not to.


Next step will be a ban until the New Year.

Do not quote or reply to this post. Any issue, PM.

tritium

tobefrank321 wrote: »

What has Kerry got to do with Dublin dominance? Kerry did it fairly with little assistance from the GAA. When Kerry didn't win an AI from 1986-1996, did the GAA try to fix it so Kerry could go back to winning every couple of years again? Of course they didn't.

And they play about 75% of their games away from Kerry. They also have relatively few paid GDOs and don't have a professional administration.

God, that’s hilarious! So the Munster council weren’t dropping Kerry straight into the provincial final? So Kerry weren’t getting cash from adidas that the GAA took their cut of and said nothing more? So Kerry haven’t got one of the longest and most lucrative sponsorships in Irish sport.

It’s like the Munster council decided to see how little effort they could make Kerry expend to win an AI

tobefrank321

tritium wrote: »

God, that’s hilarious! So the Munster council weren’t dropping Kerry straight into the provincial final? So Kerry weren’t getting cash from adidas that the GAA took their cut of and said nothing more? So Kerry haven’t got one of the longest and most lucrative sponsorships in Irish sport.

It’s like the Munster council decided to see how little effort they could make Kerry expend to win an AI

You're equating 17 million of assistance with being dropped into the munster final? Laughable. You're also confusing commercial revenue with GAA financial assistance.

StupidLikeAFox

kilns wrote: »

Are you deflecting on purpose. I'm referring to your statements on Dublin clubs and multiple coaches they have and even full time coaching directors over them. I asked you to name the clubs

Ballyboden employ a manager, a full time performance director and a gdo (maybe two) which is subsidised by the gaa. Kilmacud have two full time coaches also, one of these is probably subsidised by the gaa

The_Kew_Tour

tobefrank321 wrote: »

You're equating 17 million of assistance with being dropped into the munster final? Laughable. You're also confusing commercial revenue with GAA financial assistance.

Kerry are well looked after. Just look at who sponsors them and the amount of money they have got.

They may not get what Dublin got but to say they got little assistance is false.