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Covid 19 Part XXX-113,332 ROI(2,282 deaths) 81,251 NI (1,384 deaths) (05/01) Read OP

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    #62
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    niallo27 wrote: »
    That makes no sense, my post had nothing to do with restrictions being reintroduced.

    So you'd be ok with no home visits, meeting up with other households, and non essential retail and all hospitality shut till March?


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    #63
    AutoTuning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭AutoTuning


    Personally, I don't buy the idea that non-essential retail is an issue. The concern I would have is about rush / crush loads into city centres / shopping centres / town centres and shops, which definitely occurred before Christmas in some areas and would almost certainly occur in any kind of January sales events.

    We could be doing a lot more to support retailers with online, click and collect arrangements e.g. why don't city councils have collection points for retailers?

    There must be some big empty car parks around and all you'd need is a ticketing system and a bit of logistics. It would create a few jobs too and keep economies ticking over.

    Giving smaller retailers practical help to get online would be extremely useful too - there are loads of practicalities, beyond just setting up a website e.g. fulfilment logistics etc.

    Even if you think of it from a longer term point of view, getting some of these brands online now would be very useful to their long term survival and growth in a market that's becoming more and more focused on online ordering.


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    #64
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    AutoTuning wrote: »
    Whatever the story is anyone critiquing it on Twitter seems to be getting an earful about how they only care about PR and spin and there's an implication that there was no other way of training people other than to wait until it arrived, which just makes absolutely no sense.

    They could have and I would assume have done dummy runs with frozen samples to test and assure the cold chain. They're hardly going to have to do that with active vaccines.

    While a few isn't the end of the world, it just doesn't look great and I would sincerely hope this is not a sign of things to come.

    Seeing as how other countries managed to start vaccinating today, any excuses about training are hollow and simply point to inadequate planning.


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    #65
    niallo27
    Registered Users Posts: 16,010 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Stheno wrote: »
    So you'd be ok with no home visits, meeting up with other households, and non essential retail and all hospitality shut till March?

    My point was that most people that met over Christmas were meeting anyway for last few weeks so I don't think it would make much difference to overall figures.


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    #66
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    niallo27 wrote: »
    My point was that most people that met over Christmas were meeting anyway for last few weeks so I don't think it would make much difference to overall figures.

    I met one person over Christmas outside of the one person I saw three times the past three weeks

    In total since December 1 I've had two close contacts outside my oh. Now I did eat out with my oh a few times

    Mo as t people I know are similar


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    #67
    embraer170
    Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭embraer170


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Seeing as how other countries managed to start vaccinating today, any excuses about training are hollow and simply point to inadequate planning.

    A lot of Ireland shuts down between Christmas and New Year, which must not help.

    For example, I am not aware of any RoRo ferries operating to Ireland until the 30th. The first RoRo to mainland Europe is on the 29th (from Rosslare) and 31st (from Dublin). I am not saying ferries would be used for the vaccine (likely being flown or or coming over the landbridge) but it shows the country's attitude.


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    #68
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I hope they don't continue to operate at this glacial speed.

    The population of this country will not forgive the HSE if they screw this up.

    Like you say they've had months to prepare

    I have no doubt we will the slowest in Europe'

    We were the slowest easing initial restrictions and I have no doubt the HSE will mess this up


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    #69
    niallo27
    Registered Users Posts: 16,010 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Stheno wrote: »
    I met one person over Christmas outside of the one person I saw three times the past three weeks

    In total since December 1 I've had two close contacts outside my oh. Now I did eat out with my oh a few times

    Mo as t people I know are similar

    That's great, Christmas day shouldn't have any affect on case numbers so if that's the case.


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    #70
    embraer170
    Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭embraer170


    Stheno wrote: »
    I met one person over Christmas outside of the one person I saw three times the past three weeks

    In total since December 1 I've had two close contacts outside my oh. Now I did eat out with my oh a few times

    Mo as t people I know are similar

    I drove quite a bit on Christmas Day (rural Kerry). Saw loads of houses with 4-5 or more cars parked on the driveway or yard, when you would normally expect to see 1 or 2. Loads of UK reg cars around too in recent days (and I don't judge that).


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    #71
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    embraer170 wrote: »
    A lot of Ireland shuts down between Christmas and New Year, which must not help.

    For example, I am not aware of any RoRo ferries operating to Ireland until the 30th. The first RoRo to mainland Europe is on the 29th (from Rosslare) and 31st (from Dublin). I am not saying ferries would be used for the vaccine (likely being flown or or coming over the landbridge) but it shows the country's attitude.

    The first batch arrived this morning. Yet we don't intend to use it until Wednesday. Other countries started today.


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    #72
    quokula
    Registered Users Posts: 3,574 ✭✭✭quokula


    niallo27 wrote: »
    My point was that most people that met over Christmas were meeting anyway for last few weeks so I don't think it would make much difference to overall figures.

    A significant minority of people like you who don’t give a crap about anyone else might have been doing that, but most people have been behaving responsibly. And could have safely spent time with family over Christmas if not for people like you spreading it around.


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    #73
    niallo27
    Registered Users Posts: 16,010 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    quokula wrote: »
    A significant minority of people like you who don’t give a crap about anyone else might have been doing that, but most people have been behaving responsibly. And could have safely spent time with family over Christmas if not for people like you spreading it around.

    This place really is toxic at times and makes no sense. So what your saying is that I could visited family over Christmas safely if I refrained from meeting family over Christmas.


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    #74
    embraer170
    Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭embraer170


    niallo27 wrote: »
    My point was that most people that met over Christmas were meeting anyway for last few weeks so I don't think it would make much difference to overall figures.

    People have been meeting in recent weeks but Christmas Day probably brought a huge number of gatherings (often including vulnerable groups) spending 4-5 or more hours in a poorly ventilated room, many of those involved drinking alcohol. I was out for most of Christmas Day and the cars in driveways was a pretty clear sign of gatherings.


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    #75
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Christmas is a time for family

    Of course there was gatherings

    Many many limited contacts in previous week to meet up on Christmas as safely as possible


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    #76
    niallo27
    Registered Users Posts: 16,010 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    embraer170 wrote: »
    People have been meeting in recent weeks but Christmas Day probably brought a huge number of gatherings (often including vulnerable groups) spending 4-5 or more hours in a poorly ventilated room, many of those involved drinking alcohol. I was out for most of Christmas Day and the cars in driveways was a pretty clear sign of gatherings.

    Maybe maybe, I just think it's exaggerated a lot on here and most had a fairly quiet reserved Christmas.


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    #77
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    Lollipop95 wrote: »
    From what I’ve heard from my Aussie connections, Australia is pretty much back to normal. Why is it that we can’t be the same, despite Australia having a larger population than us?

    Australia has been from the start to limit exposure from the main virus threat which is travel. This was to buy time, watch what happens elsewhere and avoid making the same mistakes.

    I live in Sydney and its been fairly normal for months probably sliding from 60-80% since June, actually November and most of December it was back to Pre-Covid activity.

    Then about a week before Xmas an area in the Northern Beaches (a council area about 1/4 size of Co Longford) had an outbreak and it was zoned off to save the rest of the city. The acted super fast and it seems they managed to contain it.

    537259.png

    They also have great testing capacity, they were doing up to 100K a day and in Sydney northern beaches alone hitting around 40k tests a day with a 12 hr turnaround.

    The other states also closed borders to NSW allowing permit only depending on your address and also a deceleration that you haven't been to a hot spot.

    The green zone is under precaution level which means people have to be more mindful, masks are not mandated but advised and people are compliant. $1000 fine if you do the wrong thing.

    Police had to break up a party on Bronte beach on Xmas day, maybe a few weeks ago this would have been not a problem but its viewed as disrespectful to those people in the Red/Amber Zones.

    Its also worth pointing out that Metro Sydney is slightly smaller than the 6 counties in the North but has 5.2m so is far more densely populated than Ireland, the quick actions can limit exposure.

    But even if one city like was the case in Melbourne any huge outbreak can be maintained. At the time of the Melbourne outbreak the other 80% of the country were living fairly normal.


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    #78
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    embraer170 wrote: »
    People have been meeting in recent weeks but Christmas Day probably brought a huge number of gatherings (often including vulnerable groups) spending 4-5 or more hours in a poorly ventilated room, many of those involved drinking alcohol. I was out for most of Christmas Day and the cars in driveways was a pretty clear sign of gatherings.

    The Christmas tradition of spitting on your neighbours door handles won't help at all either.


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    #79
    Danno
    Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    ElJeffe wrote: »
    No they wouldn't have. Plenty of eejits wouldn't have seen each other for months but pile into a house around Xmas.

    Anyway sure let's see what happens. I hope I'm wrong but I'll be shocked if we don't see 2000 cases a day by next weekend.

    2000 cases out of a population of 4.9mln should be very easy to contain. But alas, as our system here has repeatedly shown, it can't, or won't be bothered it's overpaid whole. I look on this with aghast at how such minute numbers are afforded roughshod over an entire country.

    For a population the size of Ireland, 15k cases a day should be our benchmark before moving to level 2 ffs.


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    #80
    Lashes28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭Lashes28


    Is there any data about catching CovID in retail scenarios? Has any clusters come from retail?

    The one thing I don't understand is why the government has gone different to northern Ireland's restrictions?? Surely the best for everyone is to have all non essential retail closed on the whole island to stop people crossing the border? Border counties again are going to sky rocket because of this


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    #81
    Danno
    Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Lashes28 wrote: »
    Is there any data about catching CovID in retail scenarios? Has any clusters come from retail?

    The one thing I don't understand is why the government has gone different to northern Ireland's restrictions?? Surely the best for everyone is to have all non essential retail closed on the whole island to stop people crossing the border? Border counties again are going to sky rocket because of this

    The border should be sealed off and nobody let in or out for any reason unless they have a 40ft behind their truck.

    Pay shut up money to the dissenters.


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    #82
    embraer170
    Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭embraer170


    The reality is that Ireland never made an effort to build a strong contact tracing system (not that any other European countries really managed to either). Singapore, South Korea and Vietnam invested a lot in contact tracing to allow them to identify the precise source of the majority of COVID cases.


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    #83
    spookwoman
    Registered Users Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Lashes28 wrote: »
    Is there any data about catching CovID in retail scenarios? Has any clusters come from retail?

    The one thing I don't understand is why the government has gone different to northern Ireland's restrictions?? Surely the best for everyone is to have all non essential retail closed on the whole island to stop people crossing the border? Border counties again are going to sky rocket because of this

    Last report for clusters https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Report_Week512020_v1.1_22122020_WebVersion.pdf


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    #84
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Germany and Hungary started this afternoon after getting their shipments this morning like we did. Nearly everywhere else starts tomorrow morning. Meanwhile we can't get organised enough to start until next Wednesday.

    Look right today is a bank holiday and a Saturday. It's bad enough that someone actually had to go to work and collect them. Tomorrow is Sunday, 'nuff said. Monday is an alternate bank holiday. On Tuesday they can be distributed around the country. And so, vaccination can start Wednesday. It's not like it's an emergency or important or anything.


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Danno wrote: »
    2000 cases out of a population of 4.9mln should be very easy to contain. But alas, as our system here has repeatedly shown, it can't, or won't be bothered it's overpaid whole. I look on this with aghast at how such minute numbers are afforded roughshod over an entire country.

    For a population the size of Ireland, 15k cases a day should be our benchmark before moving to level 2 ffs.

    This. All rational proportionality is out the window. The HSE (also known as the administrative hideaway) doesn't have the ability to function efficiently. And this top-heavy culture of too many cooks can't be rooted out overnight. Up steps the knight in shining armour Holohan to save their inept valour. Throw hundreds of thousands of livelihoods to the wind because we cannot adequately cater for more than a few dozen ICU cases. No contingency plan in place whatsoever. The most depressing slapstick imaginable.


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    #86
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    spookwoman wrote: »
    Last report for clusters https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Report_Week512020_v1.1_22122020_WebVersion.pdf

    am i the only one who looks at that data and sees schools as the prime driving force here? "Private house: family outbreaks" is by far the largest number here, but covid doesn't spontaneously erupt in homes. it comes from somewhere. and you need only look at the second largest outbreak number to see where it most likely came from.

    i'm not in favour of closing the schools by the way, but we should recognise what is happening here at least and focus more efforts on the root problems.

    i'm sure raind will come along with his usual defence of schools, so to him and others i would ask, if not schools seeding family outbreaks, where are they most likely coming from? social gathering number is one of the lowest on the list.


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    #87
    AutoTuning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭AutoTuning


    This is the problem though, Ireland and plenty of other countries are now seeing why healthcare systems are essential pieces of national infrastructure for both economic and national security reasons.

    We never really thought about the HSE as a last line of defence against a global pandemic. At least, nobody in politics or administration ever did anyway, yet it's now in that position.

    The simple reality of it is there are huge economic, social and national security costs to having a belt and braces approach to running healthcare and that's what we've been doing for as long as modern healthcare has existed.

    We also can't just keep repeating this notion that it's due to historical issues with economic stagnation. We're one of the wealthiest countries in the world and we've a huge amount of financial resources available or potentially available to healthcare and train large numbers of doctors, nurses and paramedics, yet somehow seem to chase them all out of the country with incompetent structures for employment and careers.

    It's very much long past time that Ireland stopped playing the poor mouth excuse. We have no excuses whatsoever for the failings in health other than failure to organise it properly.

    This just can't go on anymore. It leaves us weak and vulnerable.


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    #88
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    HSE Daily report out.
    In hospital: 297 (increase of 37)
    In ICU: 23 (Decrease of 2)
    Ventilated: 11 (Decrease of 2)

    Beaumont seems the biggest with an increase of 15 in a 24hr period up to 67 ( a week ago they had 38 patients)
    A sizable increase.


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    #89
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    froog wrote: »
    am i the only one who looks at that data and sees schools as the prime driving force here? "Private house: family outbreaks" is by far the largest number here, but covid doesn't spontaneously erupt in homes. it comes from somewhere. and you need only look at the second largest outbreak number to see where it most likely came from.

    i'm not in favour of closing the schools by the way, but we should recognise what is happening here at least and focus more efforts on the root problems.

    i'm sure raind will come along with his usual defence of schools, so to him and others i would ask, if not schools seeding family outbreaks, where are they most likely coming from? social gathering number is one of the lowest on the list.

    You also have to remember we're not privy to the fine details. If 50% of households in this country have school going children and 50% don't have any
    and each household have the same number of clusters, then it can't point to schools causing cases. Ya know, maybe the Government aren't lying?


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    #90
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,495 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    More than 1 in every 30 people in Dublin has been confirmed as infected as of today. Sounds huge really,I'm surprised I don't know that many people who have had it still. I'm guessing a lot of people must kind of keep it to themselves. Tbf don't know if I'd go around telling everyone myself if I got it either.


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    #91
    embraer170
    Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭embraer170


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    More than 1 in every 30 people in Dublin has been confirmed as infected as of today. Sounds huge really,I'm surprised I don't know that many people who have had it still. I'm guessing a lot of people must kind of keep it to themselves. Tbf don't know if I'd go around telling everyone myself if I got it either.

    Something wrong with that number.


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