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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Options
    #5042
    dalyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Can you provide examples of these articles please because I haven't seen any. Also don't the media always sensationalise (which I think you're also doing in your posts) everything anyway, you're a fool if you believe everything in it but I have not seen videos of Chinese people dropping dead on the street allegedly due to Covid.

    Tony Holohan's twitter is not part of the media. He's the Chief Medical Officer and he's advised not going to pubs and restraurants as he disagrees with the government's decisions on lockdown.

    Here you go. There is countless media reporting on people dropping dead of covid way back in January. 2 months before we locked down international media were grooming us for the eventuality.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10860656/coronavirus-horror-dead-man-street/


  • Options
    #5043
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Can you provide examples of these articles please because I haven't seen any. Also don't the media always sensationalise (which I think you're also doing in your posts) everything anyway, you're a fool if you believe everything in it but I have not seen videos of Chinese people dropping dead on the street allegedly due to Covid.

    Tony Holohan's twitter is not part of the media. He's the Chief Medical Officer and he's advised not going to pubs and restraurants as he disagrees with the government's decisions on lockdown.

    You must be living under the rock if you missed it...

    Our Taoiseach stated that 250K Irish could die back in March. Just 248K to go...

    Sam McConkey was still saying 120K could die up until recently.

    Gerry Killeen said we “would all” likely spend time in ICU with Covid over the next few years. Just a few million to go...

    The hysteria has been off the charts. The reality is a relevantly small number of elderly have died WITH Covid.


  • Options
    #5044
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You must be living under the rock if you missed it...

    Our Taoiseach stated that 250K Irish could die back in March. Just 248K to go...

    Sam McConkey was still saying 120K could die up until recently.

    Gerry Killeen said we “would all” likely spend time in ICU with Covid over the next few years. Just a few million to go...

    The hysteria has been off the charts. The reality is a relevantly small number of elderly have died WITH Covid.

    And the vast majority of those deaths happened because NPHET and HSE introduced Covid into nursing homes.


  • Options
    #5045
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Can you provide examples of these articles please because I haven't seen any. Also don't the media always sensationalise (which I think you're also doing in your posts) everything anyway, you're a fool if you believe everything in it but I have not seen videos of Chinese people dropping dead on the street allegedly due to Covid.

    Tony Holohan's twitter is not part of the media. He's the Chief Medical Officer and he's advised not going to pubs and restraurants as he disagrees with the government's decisions on lockdown.

    Here you go, a quick google pulled up these articles but there was many more knocking around at the time. All reputable new sources pumping out the hysteria and gloom.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/a-man-lies-dead-in-the-street-the-image-that-captures-the-wuhan-coronavirus-crisis

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/5021353/coronavirus-leaves-wuhan-a-zombieland-with-dead-lying-in-deserted-streets-and-medics-patrolling-in-hazmat-suits/amp/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-latest-china-wuhan-picture-man-outbreak-a9310846.html?amp

    Tony is in no position to undermine the government through his position as CMO.
    He is of course entitled to his own opinion but he shouldn’t be posting it from his social media accounts linked to his capacity as CMO. The fact that you even think it’s acceptable for him to continuously undermine our elected representatives in that manner is absolutely mind blowing.


  • Options
    #5046
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,444 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You must be living under the rock if you missed it...

    Our Taoiseach stated that 250K Irish could die back in March. Just 248K to go...

    Sam McConkey was still saying 120K could die up until recently.

    Gerry Killeen said we “would all” likely spend time in ICU with Covid over the next few years. Just a few million to go...

    The hysteria has been off the charts. The reality is a relevantly small number of elderly have died WITH Covid.

    Look at what you wrote about the Taoiseach. He said it at the very start back in March when they were a lot of unknowns and no lockdowns.

    Really, you're just taking stuff out of context.

    I don't get why so many people depend on the media anyway for opinions.


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  • Options
    #5047
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,444 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Here you go, a quick google pulled up these articles but there was many more knocking around at the time. All reputable new sources pumping out the hysteria and gloom.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/a-man-lies-dead-in-the-street-the-image-that-captures-the-wuhan-coronavirus-crisis

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/5021353/coronavirus-leaves-wuhan-a-zombieland-with-dead-lying-in-deserted-streets-and-medics-patrolling-in-hazmat-suits/amp/

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-latest-china-wuhan-picture-man-outbreak-a9310846.html?amp

    Tony is in no position to undermine the government through his position as CMO.
    He is of course entitled to his own opinion but he shouldn’t be posting it from his social media accounts linked to his capacity as CMO. The fact that you even think it’s acceptable for him to continuously undermine our elected representatives in that manner is absolutely mind blowing.

    All 3 articles you provided are from January when it just broke in China so I will not accept it as evidence that the media now 11 months later are still pushing these.

    Also 2 of your sources are from the UK and the other "Irish" paper is just an English rag.

    Tony Holohan holds an independent office and is completely within his rights to offer opinions that are contrary to the government.

    I'd actually trust him more as this is a medical issue and not a political one.


  • Options
    #5048
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,444 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    dalyboy wrote: »
    Here you go. There is countless media reporting on people dropping dead of covid way back in January. 2 months before we locked down international media were grooming us for the eventuality.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10860656/coronavirus-horror-dead-man-street/

    Ok, an atricle from one of the worst English papers and it's from January when all this was breaking.

    I'm not accepting this as proof that the Irish media is scaremongering the Irish population.

    Anybody who depends on The Sun for news is an idiot in my opinion.


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    #5049
    Penfailed
    Registered Users Posts: 7,511 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Anybody who depends on The Sun for news is an idiot in my opinion.

    Someone, a few posts back, claimed they were a reputable source of news... :pac:

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



  • Options
    #5050
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Ok, an atricle from one of the worst English papers and t's from January when all this was breaking.

    I'm not accepting this as proof that the Irish media is scaremongering the Irish population.

    Anybody who depends on The Sun for news is an idiot in my opinion.

    I assume you have seen Tony’s worry meter graph that he uses at briefings?

    He has actually admitted on live TV that he is concerned that people are not more afraid.


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    #5051
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    murpho999 wrote: »
    All 3 articles you provided are from January when it just broke in China so I will not accept it as evidence that the media now 11 months later are still pushing these.

    Also 2 of your sources are from the UK and the other "Irish" paper is just an English rag.

    Tony Holohan holds an independent office and is completely within his rights to offer opinions that are contrary to the government.

    I'd actually trust him more as this is a medical issue and not a political one.

    I’m not here to prove anything to you, so whether you ‘accept’ it or not doesn’t concern me.
    I said that the media have been fear mongering since day one with hysterical sensational stories and I have proven to you that this is the case.
    Stories like these at the beginning had people in fear of their lives, the media then saying millions would be infected and hundreds of thousands would die sealed the deal. And it worked, because as I said, I restricted my movements of my own accord before the government introduced any lockdown at all.
    They kept this going all summer when it was clear that the threat wasn’t as great as was first perceived.

    Tony is within his rights to think whatever he wants, but it’s completely unprofessional for him to repeatedly undermine the government and continuously leak information to the media, forcing their hand with restrictions and lockdowns. He is not a public representative and has no authority to be assuming the position of one.


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  • Options
    #5052
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,308 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    josip wrote: »
    It's actually the opposite.

    We're saddling the younger generation with a lifetime of increased national debt to reduce the risk to the older generation over the short term.
    This is the same older generation who benefited massively at the expense of the same younger generation when the property wealth transfer exercise took place a decade ago.
    And to ice the debt cake, we've made a lot of those young people unemployed over the past 9 months.
    But hey, they should be grateful. We won't let the banks or landlords evict them while we've kicked them out of work.
    How nice we are.

    (I'm not young myself.)

    Incredibly accurate post.

    The irony is the vulnerable we are protecting never sacrificed their futures to protect vulnerable in the past.

    Certainly the healthy weren’t quarantined during the TB crisis in Ireland


  • Options
    #5053
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,444 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I’m not here to prove anything to you, so whether you ‘accept’ it or not doesn’t concern me.
    I said that the media have been fear mongering since day one with hysterical sensational stories and I have proven to you that this is the case.
    Stories like these at the beginning had people in fear of their lives, the media then saying millions would be infected and hundreds of thousands would die sealed the deal. And it worked, because as I said, I restricted my movements of my own accord before the government introduced any lockdown at all.
    They kept this going all summer when it was clear that the threat wasn’t as great as was first perceived.

    Tony is within his rights to think whatever he wants, but it’s completely unprofessional for him to repeatedly undermine the government and continuously leak information to the media, forcing their hand with restrictions and lockdowns. He is not a public representative and has no authority to be assuming the position of one.
    They have been continuously overstating and dramatising the threat on a daily basis since all this kicked off.

    That's what you said and I asked you to back it up which I think is fair.

    You can't back it up and only provide 11 month old articles from foreign newspapers.
    You have not proven it's the case in any way.

    Also, why can't you make the link to the threat being lessened (which is actually less cases as the threat is still there) due to the movements being restricted.
    Now they're relaxed somewhat and numbers increase. It's a very clear and simple link to me.

    Also Tony is Chief Medical Officer which is a public job so he's quite within his rights.

    Why would you trust a politician more on a serious medical matter than a medical doctor?


  • Options
    #5054
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Penfailed wrote: »
    Someone, a few posts back, claimed they were a reputable source of news... :pac:

    Yeah that someone was me, you could have just quoted me. Wrong choice of word, I will admit. I meant legitimate rather than reputable, in the sense that an actual media outlet published these stories and I didn’t just see it on an unverified FB status by Tracy down the road.

    It’s really interesting that almost a year in you still find a way to refute and dismiss any and all criticism of the response no matter how trivial. It’s hard to believe that there are people so happy with the status quo that they are still defending the restrictions and lockdowns at all costs, yet here you are.


  • Options
    #5055
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,444 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I assume you have seen Tony’s worry meter graph that he uses at briefings?

    He has actually admitted on live TV that he is concerned that people are not more afraid.

    So he wants people to be afraid of catching a virus so that they do the right thing.

    Makes sense to me.


  • Options
    #5056
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    murpho999 wrote: »
    So he wants people to be afraid of catching a virus so that they do the right thing.

    Makes sense to me.

    He wants people to be afraid...

    And yet you can’t see any evidence of fear mongering...

    And what exactly is the “right thing”?


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    #5057
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    murpho999 wrote: »
    So he wants people to be afraid of catching a virus so that they do the right thing.

    Makes sense to me.

    Are the people you are referring to - imbeciles? They are children with no knowledge or ability to calculate risk? They are incapacitated and cant make any independent decisions or assessments?

    More importantly, when was the last time Irish govt wanted people to be afraid?


    2020 is some year isnt it. Our govt wants us to be afraid of catching a 99.8% survival rate virus. 20% + unemployment. Suicides, cancer deaths on the rise. We are just few weeks away from clapping for HSE again I bet.


  • Options
    #5058
    Klonker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Klonker


    I got the transcript from TH and MM meeting, read below:

    TH: I think we need to go to level 5 ASAP

    MM:OK, why do you think we need to do that?

    TH: Because cases are increasing

    MM: But weren't they always going to increase, first of all because people were locked down for the previous 6 weeks and as well as that it's coming into the Christmas period. We knew that was going to happen didn't we?

    TH: Yes

    MM: So why are you acting like this is a big surprise and disaster?

    TH: Because the cases are rising faster than expected?

    MM: Ah OK, so loads of people are dying from Covid?

    TH: Well, no.

    MM: But ICU is filling up, right?

    TH: No theres actually less than 30 Covid patients in ICU.

    MM: OK, so the hospitals are full of Covid patients?

    TH: No there's actually less than 250 patients in hospitals, many of whom caught it in the hospitals in the first place.

    MM: But hospitals in general are full?

    TH: Yes, but much less that previous years.

    MM: Are we an outlier than the rest of Europe, are we?

    TH: Yes we are.

    MM: Ah, now I understand. So we have much higher cases than the rest of Europe?

    TH: Well no, we are an outlier because we are in a much better situation than the majority of rest of Europe.

    MM: OK, I agree, very worrying. Let's strike fear in all households in Ireland until people are afraid leave there houses and lock everything down again after being open only 3 weeks. Any plans on how to exit this next lockdown?

    TH: Ah, I'm glad you asked. Yes we do. Our plan is to open, then worry cases are increasing even though that's what we'll expect and then lock down again. Good, right?

    MM: Sounds like a winner to me. Come'er though, whenever you suggest to lockdown I'll lockdown a day later just so it looks like I'm not just letting you tell what to do. Cheers boss.


  • Options
    #5059
    Parabellum9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭Parabellum9


    murpho999 wrote: »
    So he wants people to be afraid of catching a virus so that they do the right thing.

    Makes sense to me.

    No he wants people to be in a perpetual state of fear so that they will nod along with whatever bollix decisions he and his band of merry men come up with. If people aren’t in the right state or level of fear then it becomes harder for him to get his way.

    Serious questions need to start being asked of this setup if we are triggering level 5 again for 3500 cases in 7 days. There’s only so many times you can pull the plug and restart before the plug doesn’t work anymore - plunging the economy off a cliff for a 3rd time because 0.1% of the population caught Covid in the past week.


  • Options
    #5060
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    murpho999 wrote: »
    That's what you said and I asked you to back it up which I think is fair.

    You can't back it up and only provide 11 month old articles from foreign newspapers.
    You have not proven it's the case in any way.

    Also, why can't you make the link to the threat being lessened (which is actually less cases as the threat is still there) due to the movements being restricted.
    Now they're relaxed somewhat and numbers increase. It's a very clear and simple link to me.

    Also Tony is Chief Medical Officer which is a public job so he's quite within his rights.

    Why would you trust a politician more on a serious medical matter than a medical doctor?

    You are just in complete denial, even those who are in favour of the lockdowns can acknowledge that the negative and pessimistic style of reporting from the media has been sensationalist and unnecessarily fear inducing.
    I’m not here to use google for you, if you don’t want to look yourself I’m not doing it on your behalf.

    It’s not just a medical matter, it’s also a social matter and an economic matter as well. Hence the government are supposed to be the ones balancing the interests of all three issues. Tony has no remit on the economic or social issues. He has covid tunnel vision.


  • Options
    #5061
    Poorside
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Poorside


    Klonker wrote: »
    I got the transcript from TH and MM meeting, read below:

    TH: I think we need to go to level 5 ASAP

    MM:OK, why do you think we need to do that?

    TH: Because cases are increasing

    MM: But weren't they always going to increase, first of all because people were locked down for the previous 6 weeks and as well as that it's coming into the Christmas period. We knew that was going to happen didn't we?

    TH: Yes

    MM: So why are you acting like this is a big surprise and disaster?

    TH: Because the cases are rising faster than expected?

    MM: Ah OK, so loads of people are dying from Covid?

    TH: Well, no.

    MM: But ICU is filling up, right?

    TH: No theres actually less than 30 Covid patients in ICU.

    MM: OK, so the hospitals are full of Covid patients?

    TH: No there's actually less than 250 patients in hospitals, many of whom caught it in the hospitals in the first place.

    MM: But hospitals in general are full?

    TH: Yes, but much less that previous years.

    MM: Are we an outlier than the rest of Europe, are we?

    TH: Yes we are.

    MM: Ah, now I understand. So we have much higher cases than the rest of Europe?

    TH: Well no, we are an outlier because we are in a much better situation than the majority of rest of Europe.

    MM: OK, I agree, very worrying. Let's strike fear in all households in Ireland until people are afraid leave there houses and lock everything down again after being open only 3 weeks. Any plans on how to exit this next lockdown?

    TH: Ah, I'm glad you asked. Yes we do. Our plan is to open, then worry cases are increasing even though that's what we'll expect and then lock down again. Good, right?

    MM: Sounds like a winner to me. Come'er though, whenever you suggest to lockdown I'll lockdown a day later just so it looks like I'm not just letting you tell what to do. Cheers boss.

    All that effort, you must be very bored.


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    #5062
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,444 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    You are just in complete denial, even those who are in favour of the lockdowns can acknowledge that the negative and pessimistic style of reporting from the media has been sensationalist and unnecessarily fear inducing.
    I’m not here to use google for you, if you don’t want to look yourself I’m not doing it on your behalf.

    It’s not just a medical matter, it’s also a social matter and an economic matter as well. Hence the government are supposed to be the ones balancing the interests of all three issues. Tony has no remit on the economic or social issues. He has covid tunnel vision.

    Look, you're the one making the claims not me.

    You can't back them up with one recent Irish article.

    If you make a claim then you should have evidence to back it up and expect to be challenged.

    They're just not there as you claim so stop trying to make it out that at fault here.

    Also the social and economic matters you mention are all caused by a medical matter which is what the Chief Medical Officer is concerned about and he advises the governement on medical grounds.


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    #5063
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,262 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He wants people to be afraid...

    And yet you can’t see any evidence of fear mongering...

    And what exactly is the “right thing”?

    I stupidly thought that Holohan and RTE would lay off the fear-mongering and hysteria for a week or so around Christmas and give people a break.

    It doesn't affect me as I never watch RTE or listen to their radio stations but I know a lot of older people who get all their info. from RTE.

    It really is disgraceful after 9 solid months of finger-wagging they have ramped up the hysteria just as people might finally get a chance to spend some time with family that they haven't seen in a long time.

    Holohan and RTE should be ashamed of themselves.


  • Options
    #5064
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,444 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Parabellum9 wrote: »
    No he wants people to be in a perpetual state of fear so that they will nod along with whatever bollix decisions he and his band of merry men come up with. If people aren’t in the right state or level of fear then it becomes harder for him to get his way.

    Serious questions need to start being asked of this setup if we are triggering level 5 again for 3500 cases in 7 days. There’s only so many times you can pull the plug and restart before the plug doesn’t work anymore - plunging the economy off a cliff for a 3rd time because 0.1% of the population caught Covid in the past week.

    Again why can't you link that what you perceive as low numbers is directly connected to the restrictions.

    If the country (and rest of Europe) had been put in full lockdown for 6 months in March then we'd probably be in better shape.

    Wuhan did it and life is pretty normal there now but people here wouldn't have it and we're in this continuous cycle of restrictions, ease them, restrictions ease them etc.


  • Options
    #5065
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,444 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He wants people to be afraid...

    And yet you can’t see any evidence of fear mongering...

    And what exactly is the “right thing”?

    No I don't see any fear mongering.

    The right thing is restrict movements and social contact.

    Look at what's going on in Germany and Holland as examples. Full lockdown and it doesn't matter that it's Christmas.


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    #5066
    Penfailed
    Registered Users Posts: 7,511 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Yeah that someone was me, you could have just quoted me. Wrong choice of word, I will admit. I meant legitimate rather than reputable, in the sense that an actual media outlet published these stories and I didn’t just see it on an unverified FB status by Tracy down the road.

    It’s really interesting that almost a year in you still find a way to refute and dismiss any and all criticism of the response no matter how trivial. It’s hard to believe that there are people so happy with the status quo that they are still defending the restrictions and lockdowns at all costs, yet here you are.

    It's very difficult to multi quote on my phone.

    It's hard to believe that there are people so ignorant to the ongoing crisis that they are still attacking the restrictions and lockdowns at all costs, yet, here you are.

    I'm not happy with the status quo by the way. I think it's all shíte. I don't see a better way though.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



  • Options
    #5067
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Again why can't you link that what you perceive as low numbers is directly connected to the restrictions.

    If the country (and rest of Europe) had been put in full lockdown for 6 months in March then we'd probably be in better shape.

    Wuhan did it and life is pretty normal there now but people here wouldn't have it and we're in this continuous cycle of restrictions, ease them, restrictions ease them etc.

    Better shape in terms of Covid only though, right?

    Horrendous shape overall.


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    #5068
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,334 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I stupidly thought that Holohan and RTE would lay off the fear-mongering and hysteria for a week or so around Christmas and give people a break.

    It doesn't affect me as I never watch RTE or listen to their radio stations but I know a lot of older people who get all their info. from RTE.

    It really is disgraceful after 9 solid months of finger-wagging they have ramped up the hysteria just as people might finally get a chance to spend some time with family that they haven't seen in a long time.

    Holohan and RTE should be ashamed of themselves.

    Are you one of that lot that marches around the place on Saturdays shouting “RTE is Fake News” and other such Trumplike slogans?


  • Options
    #5069
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,444 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Better shape in terms of Covid only though, right?

    Horrendous shape overall.

    Yes and as it's covid that has caused everything and that's what's needs to be tackled and then the other issues can get resolved.


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    #5070
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,725 ✭✭✭✭josip


    No inter county travel after Stephen's day.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1222/1185905-rte-live-news-blog/

    Well that brings forwards my plans for the 28th so.


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    #5071
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,313 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Restaurants to shut at 3pm on Christmas eve....I have a booking at 2...


This discussion has been closed.
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