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Should ownership of cats be banned?

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    #32
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    1874 wrote: »
    How would you know? ...

    I would concur with the other poster. I have a large mean farm cat who regularly catches rats. Big feckers as well. Seen him hunting and killing them. So no -no doubts at all.


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    #33
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,636 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    unkel wrote: »
    Number of birds killed per year globally by wind turbines: 40,000
    Number of birds killed per year globally by domestic cats: 4,000,000,000

    No typo. Four billion. For every single bird killed by a wind turbine, cats kill one hundred thousand of them

    I haven't heard about birds being driven into extinction because of cats though. I guess cats kill the most vulnerable birds. Survival of the fittest. So no, I do not feel we should ban domestic cats.

    Cats tend to kill common or garden birds - wind turbines kill rare soaring birds like eagles, cranes, pelicans etc. They also displace rarer birds from habitats like peatlands etc. So your comparing apples with oranges


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    #34
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    1874 wrote: »




    I think you're incorrect, found a good article recently that showed cats dont actually catch rats, might have the pdf of it somewhere, they either make them more elusive so they aren't seen or if the rat has a specific parasite, they actually embolden the rats who get killed and the cats pass it on. I dont believe that cats kill many rats, they probably kill mice, but if they are well fed, I dont think they will hunt or kill them.
    Maybe get some good jack russels? I'd have thought they'd be better at it?.

    So you're telling me the 30 plus rats that have ended up outside my door in the last 3 years have been dreamt up by me all along, just 2 weeks ago 2 were lying side by side on my front step like trophy kills, also no more rats sitting on my washing machine or freezer when I go into the shed, I have a jack Russell dog who would try and play with a rat rather than kill it, I've tried everything from poisoning, high frequency transmitters, live bait cages and the rats kept coming back until I got my cats


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    #35
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    gozunda wrote: »
    I would concur with the other poster. I have a large mean farm cat who regularly catches rats. Big feckers as well. Seen him hunting and killing them. So no -no doubts at all.


    Im sure there are outliers, but one example from a farm may be a rare example, and a farm or rural area might be a more likely location for this to occur, to have one dominant Male cat thats able and will do that, do you feed him much? not being critical, just think if you feed the right cat the right amount (ie not too much), he could do that, ie he is still looked after/can get big/stay healthy etc.
    but I wouldnt think its as common as people believe. In a suburban location, I'm inclined to think they dont, either domestic cats fed well enough to not need to tackle a rat, OR feral cats that are either smaller or can access other food sources, path of least resistance, rats are a bit dangerous for them and big enough to tackle, so they take on easier prey.


    I'm not disputing you that yours will, if you've seen it.
    I saw myself, loads of rat droppings (an actual increase from very little to very significant amounts found every day) right under and very near to where the cats were being fed and stayed during the day.



    I dug up an article and I may have saved it somewhere and it basically said something like statistically cats dont kill rats, thats not to say it doesnt occur, I think it depends on different factors.


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    #36
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,463 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    My cat is out 24/7. I don't have a vermin problem.


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    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    New research finds that contrary to popular opinion, cats are not good predators of rats. The study -- the first to document interactions between feral cats and a wild rat colony -- shows that rats actively avoid cats, and only recorded two rat kills in 79 days. The findings add to growing evidence that any benefit of using cats to control city rats is outweighed by the threat they pose to birds and other urban wildlife.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180927083342.htm


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    #38
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    And what would you have me do with the rat problem before I got cats, I live near a river which is a crawling with rats, I got my 2 cats 3 years ago and since then the rat problem has gotten much better, no more rats living in my shed, I also have bird feeders and the birds seem to feed away without too much interference from the cats

    Out here there was a plague of rats when I arrived. One huge one! Dead! My six cats work for their keep.

    I do not feed the birds. And rarely see any near the place. Birds are not stupid. And they can fly. There is abundant shore and wild land here and they have abundant wild food.

    Oh and please remember that larger birds eg magpies, prey on smaller birds. Stop demonising cats.

    And I disagree that no one owns a cat. mine are mine. As devoted and companionable as any dog . All of mine are rescues from appalling conditions so maybe that changes their love and need.


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    #39
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    1874 wrote: »
    How would you know? be next to impossible to tell what they were up to as they must be out at some point.
    Why do you say that? They're never been outside. Not since they were trapped as part of a feral litter.


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    #40
    PsychoPete
    Registered Users Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    My cat spends most of her day sitting under the bird feeders watching them, 99% of the time the birds are too clever for her except the odd time she manages to catch one but it's mostly mice she kills. Since I got her I haven't seen a rat near the place which is good


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    #41
    Vittu
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Vittu


    Put bells around their necks, gives the birds a chance


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    #42
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    Deleted User wrote: »
    New research finds that contrary to popular opinion, cats are not good predators of rats. The study -- the first to document interactions between feral cats and a wild rat colony -- shows that rats actively avoid cats, and only recorded two rat kills in 79 days. The findings add to growing evidence that any benefit of using cats to control city rats is outweighed by the threat they pose to birds and other urban wildlife.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180927083342.htm

    So even if a cat doesn't kill rats it's still effective at keeping them away from your house and surrounding area, that's justification enough for me


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    #43
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Absolutely not, I live quite Rural, love the Birds around my garden, particularly Robins, I havevtwo challenges.

    A. Protecting the Birds
    B. Managing occasional mice and less occasional Rats.

    My solution was quite simple. I've a clip on bell, I put on my two cats in the morning. Which I remove in the evening. Generally cats will hunt birds during the day, when they are more active and mice, rodents, evenings, night when they are more active.

    As an aside, Cats much more likely to hunt or chase birds when they are younger. As they age, laziness sets in and as is typical of pet cats, they couldn't be bothered with anything but food and warmth. However curiosity never leaves them, hence there inclination to search out rodents at night (as long as its not to taxing or strenuous)

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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    #44
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Oh and please remember that larger birds eg magpies, prey on smaller birds.
    this again. magpies are wild, native animals. cats are not. you can't compare the two in this context.


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    #45
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    1874 wrote: »
    Im sure there are outliers, but one example from a farm may be a rare example, and a farm or rural area might be a more likely location for this to occur, to have one dominant Male cat thats able and will do that, do you feed him much? not being critical, just think if you feed the right cat the right amount (ie not too much), he could do that, ie he is still looked after/can get big/stay healthy etc.
    but I wouldnt think its as common as people believe. In a suburban location, I'm inclined to think they dont, either domestic cats fed well enough to not need to tackle a rat, OR feral cats that are either smaller or can access other food sources, path of least resistance, rats are a bit dangerous for them and big enough to tackle, so they take on easier prey.


    I'm not disputing you that yours will, if you've seen it.
    I saw myself, loads of rat droppings (an actual increase from very little to very significant amounts found every day) right under and very near to where the cats were being fed and stayed during the day.



    I dug up an article and I may have saved it somewhere and it basically said something like statistically cats dont kill rats, thats not to say it doesnt occur, I think it depends on different factors.

    No not one outlier by any means. He's just one of many who've done the same.


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    #46
    Scotty #
    Registered Users Posts: 3,767 ✭✭✭Scotty #


    1874 wrote: »
    Im sure there are outliers, but one example from a farm may be a rare example, and a farm or rural area might be a more likely location for this to occur, to have one dominant Male cat thats able and will do that, do you feed him much? not being critical, just think if you feed the right cat the right amount (ie not too much), he could do that, ie he is still looked after/can get big/stay healthy etc.
    but I wouldnt think its as common as people believe. In a suburban location, I'm inclined to think they dont, either domestic cats fed well enough to not need to tackle a rat, OR feral cats that are either smaller or can access other food sources, path of least resistance, rats are a bit dangerous for them and big enough to tackle, so they take on easier prey.
    I'd completely disagree. I have two family members living in the countryside who keep cats (I'm not a fan myself) who would both regularly witness their cats hunt and kill rats.

    How well fed they are is irrelevant. Cats hunt whether they are full or not. I have two dogs - one will go hysterical when it sees a cat and do everything it can to get after it. The other wouldn't bat an eyelid at the sight of a cat. I'd imagine cats are much the same, some have a very strong instinct to hunt and some don't.


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    #47
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    so, in summary, cats which hunt rats are the ones we want.
    but on the flipside, cats which hunt are also the ones we *don't* want.

    unless of course, there are cats which *only* hunt rats.


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    #48
    Meeoow
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Meeoow


    My cats are well fed. One of them loves killing anything from flies to rats. I live in town, and have seen him kill small rats.


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    #49
    Meeoow
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Meeoow


    gozunda wrote: »
    Username fits ... :D

    Now kitty how many times have I told you - not to use the laptop!

    Ha ha, my paws are too big for the keys, my human types for me, meeoow!


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    #50
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    They'll make a song and a dance about everything now.

    If what you're doing isn't backed by a multi billion euro industry it is liable to being banned. No great money in cats except the crowd selling cat food.

    Domestic cats haven't been seen as a problem for the 5,000+ years they been around. But everything is under the looking glass now with "policy makers" and other power tripping sh1ts. If you have some hobby that you enjoy doing you can bet there is someone in the EU attributing harm to it and looking for a way to marginalise it


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    #51
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i am not backed by a multi billion euro industry, and i don't allow our cats out. it's not a power trip for me not to allow them out.

    it *is* possible for people to have concerns which are quite simply a reasonable, sincere set of concerns without appealing to some nonsense conspiracy theory about it being about economics or power. or the EU (!?)


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    #52
    Storm 10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,876 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    I would love to know how many birds are killed by Kestrels, Hawks etc I would guess way more than cats, we have a Cat who is kept indoors and in Summer we bring him out to the garden, I have three bird feeders and he never even bothers to look at them they have even got used to him.


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    #53
    Wesser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    If the humans didn't ' own' the cats then the cats would feral and unneutered so multiple in numbers and then more cats so more dead birds.

    Also fed less often so more hungry so more killing of the birds.

    Solution. Put a bell on your cat and neuter them


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    #54
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Storm 10 wrote: »
    I would love to know how many birds are killed by Kestrels, Hawks etc I would guess way more than cats
    there are three things wrong with this point; 1) it's irrelevant; 2) it's irrelevant; and 3) it's irrelevant.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    My cat is useless, he couldn't catch a cold. He brings in moss, though. Leaves it at the top of the stairs.


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    #56
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    I think more education.

    Neighbours on our road refuse to spay cats, there have been at least 3 litters in the last year, and probably more to come.

    I don't mind cats. I do mind when they are free to roam and I have to clean the poop out of the garden. Most dogs are neutered/spayed, I think uncontrolled reproduction is something that needs to be stopped. Sure, have a cat. Just don't have 20 that you are posting on a whatsapp group to offload like yesterday's newspaper.


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    #57
    irish_goat
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 5,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭irish_goat


    It would be near impossible to enforce a ban on cats.


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    #58
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    So even if a cat doesn't kill rats it's still effective at keeping them away from your house and surrounding area, that's justification enough for me

    Before we got our first cat we had mice. We saw just the one but could hear them in the walls. Within a few weeks of the cats arrival they were gone and haven’t been back. No mouse lives lost - just knowing the cat was there was enough


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    #59
    Fuascailteoir
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    I have to cats which are killing machines. They most definitely kill rats


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    #60
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,403 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    We share our house with 3 persian cats. All neutered of course. They catch spiders and flies.

    Out of my cold dead hands will our cats be taken. We live in their house, and I will not stand for them being banned. What a nonsense idea. Easily one of the worst, nonsensical proposals I've seen on these boards.


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    #61
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    eviltwin wrote: »
    No mouse lives lost - just knowing the cat was there was enough
    this is the thing people fail to appreciate. an animal in an environment doesn't need to kill to have an impact.
    saying 'my cat doesn't bring home birds' does not, on its own, mean it has no impact. maybe it doesn't bring home birds because the very presence of the cat deters them.

    even if your cat doesn't bring home baby birds, it may be why there are no nests in your garden.


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