Should ownership of cats be banned?

Stihl waters

Storm 10 wrote: »

I will just drop this here

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/news/waterford-farmer-loses-almost-half-his-flock-in-vicious-dog-attack/ar-BB1bY1fP

What has that got to do with anything

Eddie B

Storm 10 wrote: »

I will just drop this here

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/news/waterford-farmer-loses-almost-half-his-flock-in-vicious-dog-attack/ar-BB1bY1fP

Perfect! Now should the owners of these dogs defend their actions by saying, they have a right to roam and kill whatever they want? They are free souls, and its just in their nature.


P.s They also have a right to p**s and s*it on your doorstep lol

Graces7

1874 wrote: »

I think you're incorrect, found a good article recently that showed cats dont actually catch rats,


I think feral cats should be trapped, neutered and allowed to not breed, they are a nuisance.

Cats catch and kill rats. OK? OK? I have witnessed this. So that was not a good article.

Maybe support financially the many groups who are doing the TNR work? They need all the help they can get.

Ferals catch and kill rats too.

The Black Death spread because the eejits killed all the cats who were controlling the rats that were spreading the plague.

Graces7

[QUOTE=OpenYourEyes;115553519



CATS ARE NOT PART OF THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS IN IRELAND. THATS THE POINT! You're the one arguing for keeping the cute fluffy things - you want to allow free reign for something that shouldn't be here, because it's cute and cuddly!"

They have been here thousands of years so are valid and a part of our ecology now.

How do you feel about mink?

OpenYourEyes

Graces7 wrote: »

They have been here thousands of years so are valid and a part of our ecology now.

How do you feel about mink?

That's your opinion, which you're entitled to, but it goes against everything we know from ecology, zoology and conservation. All of those disciplines agree that they cats are not a valid part of our ecology. Their presence here is artificial in every sense.

Similarly, Mink are an invasive species that should not be here and do a huge amount of farm - more harm than cats, because they cause huge amounts of damage to rare breeding species in many parts of the country.

Graces7

[QUOTE=OpenYourEyes;115658119]That's your opinion, which you're entitled to, but it goes against everything we know from ecology, zoology and conservation. All of those disciplines agree that they cats are not a valid part of our ecology. Their presence here is artificial in every sense.

Similarly, Mink are an invasive species that should not be here and do a huge amount of farm - more harm than cats, because they cause huge amounts of damage to rare breeding species in many parts of the country.[/QUOTE]

Theoretical non-sense. You have no faith in nature 's vast ability to adapt and survive.

As we have seen most of the "articles" and " theories" etc in this thread are inaccurate and out of touch with reality. Nature grows and evolves and adapts to whatever we do. It is a living force not a dry academic theory.

Nature is our life force. And has accepted and assimilated cats long ago. If she did not do that nature would die. She knows that. The cat belongs centuries ago.
Nature is a sheer miracle of survival and evolution.

Be more concerned about the species we have destroyed and lost; and how nature has adapted and changed to accommodate change as all living forces have to do. eg wolves are gone which were predators. . Nature is a life force and not a rigid tyrant

Please excuse me now; cats to feed etc. And they are a vital part of ecology here. There is no other local predator against the rats. nature knows that. They are welcomed and vital. For all they contribute.

And my six are all rescued strays. dumped by folk, and of course neutered and well fed. They do a wonderful job and are worth their weight in gold. All living creatures to be valued and cared for in their needs.

It has been an interesting discussion ; thank you. Blessings and peace this night.

tjhook

I've no problem with people owning cats. But I have a problem with people's cats coming into my garden, crapping and killing things. If you can't/won't stop your cats doing that, then don't keep cats.

OpenYourEyes

@Graces7 - we're literally in the middle of a mass extinction event caused by humans. Species are gone from Ireland and indeed the world that will never return. The "nature bouncing back/adapting" argument has no basis in reality, no matter how much 'faith' you have in it.

Jim_Hodge

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

@Graces7 - we're literally in the middle of a mass extinction event caused by humans. Species are gone from Ireland and indeed the world that will never return. The "nature bouncing back/adapting" argument has no basis in reality, no matter how much 'faith' you have in it.

Based on some reading I'm doing now nature does adapt but more often than not at the expense of species.
Cats can never be considered part of our ecology. They are pets or feral at best and neither of those categories fit in a natural ecology.
Cat owners who allow their cats free reign usually make every excuse under the sun for their behaviour but it still doesn't make it right.

magicbastarder

Graces7 wrote: »

Nature grows and evolves and adapts to whatever we do.

uh, have you seen much news about nature over the last few years or decades?

1874

Stihl waters wrote: »

So you're telling me the 30 plus rats that have ended up outside my door in the last 3 years have been dreamt up by me all along, just 2 weeks ago 2 were lying side by side on my front step like trophy kills, also no more rats sitting on my washing machine or freezer when I go into the shed, I have a jack Russell dog who would try and play with a rat rather than kill it, I've tried everything from poisoning, high frequency transmitters, live bait cages and the rats kept coming back until I got my cats

Didnt see this, 30 rats in 3 years, is negligible in terms of the rats that reproduced. What you have basically said is that cats have not even caught 1 rat per month.

eviltwin wrote: »

Before we got our first cat we had mice. We saw just the one but could hear them in the walls. Within a few weeks of the cats arrival they were gone and haven’t been back. No mouse lives lost - just knowing the cat was there was enough

Mice are a different thing altogether, I never said cats wouldnt go for them

weldoninhio wrote: »

Lets go one further. Should birds be banned as they kill insects??

They are both more part of the natural order and balance of things, insects serve many purposes.

_Brian wrote: »

Cats provide essential control of rodents. On our farm for example they are a great natural way of keeping mice and rats under control.

Cities and towns would quickly be overrun with rodents without the multitude of cats roaming about cleaning up.

Rats and mice would be less prevalant if there were less sources of food and places for them to nest. Based on how I see people manage food waste, which should be reduced/limited for other reasons, its down to laziness, lack of concern, ignorance.


2 species on this island should be removed with certainty, Mink and Grey squirrels, after that domestic Cat owners should be either obliged to neuter/spay their cats or pay to allow them to breed/pay for cleaning up the mess, ie pay to trap, neuter and release feral cats in their council area, cats that are apparently domesticated and arent chipped that are caught while catching ferals, should be neutered/spayed and rehomed.
There are and have been recently around 20 feral cats near us in our suburban area and they will continue to multiply as long as people are over feeding them at the same time I have seen an increase in rat droppings which is caused by how people dispose of food waste and how and where they are feeding feral cats, where they are less likely to deal with rodents IMO, At the same time, over the past few years, I have seen a noticeable decline in the amount of small birds.

I believe it is anecdotal or incidental where cats are deemed to have caught or even have caught rats. Even the poster in my reply unintentionally admits to this when they say their cat/s caught 10 rats per year (ie 30 over 3yrs), that is negligible, when 2 rats can breed over a 1000 rats alone.

Stihl waters

1874 wrote: »

Didnt see this, 30 rats in 3 years, is negligible in terms of the rats that reproduced. What you have basically said is that cats have not even caught 1 rat per month.

.

I don't care how fast rats reproduce, what I care about is that they're not living in my shed or sitting on my washing machine when I go into the shed, the cats keep the vermin away and that's what they're here for, rats are welcome to do whatever they want as long as they're not invading my space, so yes my cats don't seem to be doing much rat catching at the moment but their very presence is enough of a deterrent

Scotty #

Graces7 wrote: »

There is no other local predator against the rats. nature knows that.

Rats have several natural predators, fox, stoat, pine marten, heron, owl, several other species of birds of prey...

Graces7 wrote: »

And they are a vital part of ecology here.

Domestic cats are not in the least bit vital to our ecology!

They're responsible for 1000's of our wild bird population being killed every year. They might keep rats from your back door but they have no significant impact on the overall rat population.

Jizique

badaj0z wrote: »

The Biggest Bird Killers
I found the figures below with simple Google searches. They are both from the UK and from publications that support the lead ban in shooting. Look closely. You will soon note that the figures show that cats kill 270 times as many birds than are killed by lead shot. It is time to look at banning cats.

https://www.birdguides.com/news/uk-s...public%20alike.


The decision comes despite the well-known negative impacts of lead poisoning in both humans and wildlife. More than 6,000 tonnes of lead ammunition are fired over the UK countryside every year in areas where birds feed, and are left behind strewn on the ground. Birds often mistake tiny shot pellets for grit or seeds, and ingest them. Up to 100,000 waterbirds in the UK die every year through ingesting poisonous lead shot. Dead and dying birds are usually taken quickly by predators – making their deaths unseen and 'invisible' to shooters and the wider public alike.

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wi...0been%20caught.

The most recent figures of how many creatures are killed by cats are from the Mammal Society. They estimate that cats in the UK catch up to 100 million prey items over spring and summer, of which 27 million are birds.
This is the number of prey items which were known to have been caught. We don't know how many more the cats caught, but didn't bring home, or how many escaped but subsequently died.
The most frequently caught birds, according to the Mammal Society, are probably:
• house sparrows
• blue tits
• blackbirds
• starlings
badaj0z is offline Report Post

I would have less of a problem with cats if they would tackle the magpie and seagull infestation rather than sparrows, tits and blackbirds

jelem

Scotty # wrote: »

Rats have several natural predators, fox, stoat, pine marten, heron, owl, several other species of birds of prey...


Domestic cats are not in the least bit vital to our ecology!

They're responsible for 1000's of our wild bird population being killed every year. They might keep rats from your back door but they have no significant impact on the overall rat population.

another whom fails to see the rat problem that is somewhat held back by cats

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

[QUOTE=OpenYourEyes;115553519



CATS ARE NOT PART OF THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS IN IRELAND. THATS THE POINT! You're the one arguing for keeping the cute fluffy things - you want to allow free reign for something that shouldn't be here, because it's cute and cuddly!"

They have been here thousands of years so are valid and a part of our ecology now.

How do you feel about mink?

There's no mink killing birds or ****ting in my garden

larchill

Meeow!

Godeatsboogers

It's too late now to ban cat ownership, I'm not giving up my cats. Banning ownership doesn't stop cats being around, it's just makes more homeless cats, of which we already have plenty. It's easy to own cats and let them outside without them having a seriously detrimental affect on other wildlife. A little mental stimulation at home, if you do let them out, dont let them out early in the morning or late at night.

Bass Reeves

Over the last 20-30 years there is one major change that has happened in Irish birdlife. I do not think the number of cats has increased drastically. In that time. If anything there are less cats around. Feral cats may be an issue in towns and cities but not in the countryside. I see nowhere the number of stray cats that were around 20 years ago.

The real problem that is attacking smaller Bird numbers are crows and magpies. There numbers have swelled over the last 20+ years. There are a few new rookiers near me. Crows and magpies raid nest along hedge rows during spring and early summer. 20+ years ago farmers and gun clubs generally controlled crow populations. Not no longer. Another problem in urban areas especially is gulls there numbers have exploded as well but in rural Ireland its Crow numbers that is effecting the smaller Bird populations

Scotty #

jelem wrote: »

another whom fails to see the rat problem that is somewhat held back by cats

What rat problem are you referring to?

Cats will kill rats but they by no means control the rat population. It's estimated there are over 10.5 million rats in Ireland. Rats can reproduce and recover their numbers faster than the cats can kill them.

But they're also killing some of our rarer species like voles, shrews, and birds like gold crests, warblers, and buntings.

There's estimated to be 700,000 cats in Ireland. If only 1 in 10 of them kill one bird per week that's 3,640,000 wild birds killed per year. I'd imagine the true figure is much much higher but how many of that figure is made up of rare and endangered birds?

Do you not think their owners should be held accountable??

1874

Scotty # wrote: »

What rat problem are you referring to?

Cats will kill rats but they by no means control the rat population. It's estimated there are over 10.5 million rats in Ireland. Cats kill maybe a few thousand each year. Completely insignificant.

But they're also killing some of our rarer species like voles, shrews, and birds like gold crests, warblers, and buntings.

There's estimated to be 700,000 cats in Ireland. If only 1 in 10 of them kill one bird per week that's 3,640,000 wild birds killed per year. I'd imagine the true figure is much much higher but how many of that figure is made up of rare and endangered birds?

Do you not think their owners should be held accountable??

By the sounds of some of the replies, people dont think they have any responsibility, dont see, dont care, cats are nice pets, we had one years ago, they can be affectionate, they are less obvious than a dog, ie they dont bark that might bother the neighbours, but unlike a dog, they requires less effort.
You dont have to scoop up their crap and they will look after themselves a lot of the time.
The main way to control the cat population (and if cat lovers/keepers cared) would be to neuter all domestic cats, but especially Tomcats, OR pay not to, because ferals are coming from somewhere and their lives can be brutal and short, they reproduce rapidly, they are a reservoir for fleas, and other creatures.
Councils really need to have active programs to capture ferals, the only way to bring people on board is make this capture/neuter and release, but with a laissez faire attitude from councils and cat owners, its likely there will be no plan, no end plan, feral cats will live brutal short lives and have uncontrolled population and eat all around them.


Would it be accepted if dog owners were allowing large breeds (or any breed) to roam freely, $hit where they please, lets just say aggressive dogs that were going around attacking other dogs, no, because it is easier to deal with and even that isn't working out.
People need to see and accept their responsibility in these things,

Rats are attracted by poor management of food sources and waste/disposal and of having places they can stay out of the weather and nest.

MrMusician18

irish_goat wrote: »

It would be near impossible to enforce a ban on cats.

A ban wouldn't eliminate cats but it would reduce their number substantially.

The keeping of cats should be banned unless they are declawed.

beauf

1874 wrote: »

By the sounds of some of the replies, people dont think they have any responsibility, dont see, dont care, cats are nice pets, we had one years ago, they can be affectionate, they are less obvious than a dog, ie they dont bark that might bother the neighbours, but unlike a dog, they requires less effort.
You dont have to scoop up their crap and they will look after themselves a lot of the time.
The main way to control the cat population (and if cat lovers/keepers cared) would be to neuter all domestic cats, but especially Tomcats, OR pay not to, because ferals are coming from somewhere and their lives can be brutal and short, they reproduce rapidly, they are a reservoir for fleas, and other creatures.
Councils really need to have active programs to capture ferals, the only way to bring people on board is make this capture/neuter and release, but with a laissez faire attitude from councils and cat owners, its likely there will be no plan, no end plan, feral cats will live brutal short lives and have uncontrolled population and eat all around them.


Would it be accepted if dog owners were allowing large breeds (or any breed) to roam freely, $hit where they please, lets just say aggressive dogs that were going around attacking other dogs, no, because it is easier to deal with and even that isn't working out.
People need to see and accept their responsibility in these things,

Rats are attracted by poor management of food sources and waste/disposal and of having places they can stay out of the weather and nest.

Bit like people attracting birds with bird feeders to dump all over their neighbours.

"People need to see and accept their responsibility in these things"

Graces7

Wishing all here peace for Christmas.

Off a while for peace here now from all this after getting some very bad news.

Stay safe! Stay well! Stay strong!

Kermit.de.frog

Does anyone really "own" a cat OP?

A cat will go anywhere it gets the most food and a reasonable bed at the end of the day.

beauf

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Does anyone really "own" a cat OP?

A cat will go anywhere it gets the most food and a reasonable bed at the end of the day.

True...

https://www.boredpanda.com/people-find-stranger-cats-at-house/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

https://www.boredpanda.com/cats-being-jerks/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

Graces7

Scotty # wrote: »

What rat problem are you referring to?

Cats will kill rats but they by no means control the rat population. It's estimated there are over 10.5 million rats in Ireland. Rats can reproduce and recover their numbers faster than the cats can kill them.

But they're also killing some of our rarer species like voles, shrews, and birds like gold crests, warblers, and buntings.

There's estimated to be 700,000 cats in Ireland. If only 1 in 10 of them kill one bird per week that's 3,640,000 wild birds killed per year. I'd imagine the true figure is much much higher but how many of that figure is made up of rare and endangered birds?

Do you not think their owners should be held accountable??

No. RSPB do not agree with you anyways.

Graces7

MrMusician18 wrote: »

A ban wouldn't eliminate cats but it would reduce their number substantially.

The keeping of cats should be banned unless they are declawed.

Why ?

Graces7

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

It's not a good point.

One of the many subheadings under "creatures killed by humans" would be "creatures killed by animals that humans introduced to places they shouldn't be", and cats would be one of those animals! It's not that humans are worse than cats, it's that the whole cat thing is one of the problems humans have caused that we've made little attempt to rectify.

Without cats we would be overrun with rats. Literally. Cats are stars. There is no problem to rectify thus. .

Bolded ; odd idea. Cats are where they are needed and cared for. where I live cats had bred too freely . They sorted that and as a result with only a couple of cats around, rats increased and increased. Since I came with my now-six cats, rate are under control again. It is a balance in nature that is wise and good. maybe when there were wolves to deal with prey? But they have gone and cats help to redress that need.

Scotty #

Graces7 wrote: »

Without cats we would be overrun with rats. Literally.

This is not true, not even a little bit.