Should ownership of cats be banned?

zerosugarbuzz

badaj0z wrote: »

The Biggest Bird Killers
I found the figures below with simple Google searches. They are both from the UK and from publications that support the lead ban in shooting. Look closely. You will soon note that the figures show that cats kill 270 times as many birds than are killed by lead shot. It is time to look at banning cats.

https://www.birdguides.com/news/uk-s...public%20alike.


The decision comes despite the well-known negative impacts of lead poisoning in both humans and wildlife. More than 6,000 tonnes of lead ammunition are fired over the UK countryside every year in areas where birds feed, and are left behind strewn on the ground. Birds often mistake tiny shot pellets for grit or seeds, and ingest them. Up to 100,000 waterbirds in the UK die every year through ingesting poisonous lead shot. Dead and dying birds are usually taken quickly by predators – making their deaths unseen and 'invisible' to shooters and the wider public alike.

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wi...0been%20caught.

The most recent figures of how many creatures are killed by cats are from the Mammal Society. They estimate that cats in the UK catch up to 100 million prey items over spring and summer, of which 27 million are birds.
This is the number of prey items which were known to have been caught. We don't know how many more the cats caught, but didn't bring home, or how many escaped but subsequently died.
The most frequently caught birds, according to the Mammal Society, are probably:
• house sparrows
• blue tits
• blackbirds
• starlings
badaj0z is offline Report Post

Birds kill other birds too. Wasn’t there a picture of a sparrow halk killing a starling posted here to other day to much applause? I was thinking at the time it would be a different reaction for a cat. Anyway No, banning cats is a stupid suggestion.

zerosugarbuzz

Scotty # wrote: »

This is not true, not even a little bit.

I think it definitely is true, true even with cats.

whisky_galore

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The keeping of cats should be banned unless they are declawed.

They have teeth too. Should those be pulled out?

magicbastarder

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Birds kill other birds too. Wasn’t there a picture of a sparrow halk killing a starling posted here to other day to much applause? I was thinking at the time it would be a different reaction for a cat.

argh. again; you're confusing pets with native wild animals.

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

argh. again; you're confusing pets with native wild animals.

I'm not sure why this is important.

magicbastarder

Because the only thing that should be looking wildlife like that is other wildlife.
And because a pet is fed by humans and doesn't need it for food so the death of a bird is in vain in that context.

ampleforth

magicbastarder wrote: »

we have two cats. they've never killed anything bar some spiders.

I bet the spider society is flabbergasted by your lighthearted comment

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

Because the only thing that should be looking wildlife like that is other wildlife.
And because a pet is fed by humans and doesn't need it for food so the death of a bird is in vain in that context.

Nature seems to disagree with you.

Cat is hardwired to hunt. It's their natural instinct. If returned to the wild they will revert to that.

Of course birds have wings they have no reason to come into the urban environment with in range of a pet cat unless they are baited down with people feeding them and baiting their gardens.

Natural selection at work.

zerosugarbuzz

magicbastarder wrote: »

argh. again; you're confusing pets with native wild animals.

argh. again, are you serious? I am confusing nothing, I don't think you understand nature, birds kill native insects if you want to bring it to that level. Anyway its a ridiculous argument, cats are here to stay and the birds are thriving so no problem.

magicbastarder

beauf wrote: »

Nature seems to disagree with you.

Cat is hardwired to hunt. It's their natural instinct. If returned to the wild they will revert to that.

so, if lions escaped in the phoenix park, we should leave them be as them eating all the deer would only be natural?
should we forget about the issues of non-native, and pet animals because 'it's only nature'?

if i shouldn't care about a cat killing sparrows for *no* benefit in my back garden, should i be allowed start killing them too?

magicbastarder

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

argh. again, are you serious?

yes, i am. nothing you have said addresses my points, or else you misunderstand them.

Stihl waters

Scotty # wrote: »

This is not true, not even a little bit.

In a way she is right, if we hadn't cats rats would feel free to take up residence in sheds and houses which most people wouldn't be very comfortable with, the cats are a deterrent to this, while they may not have any great effect on rat populations they certainly keep unwanted vermin away

badaj0z

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

banning cats is a stupid suggestion.

Please explain why?

OpenYourEyes

Stihl waters wrote: »

In a way she is right, if we hadn't cats rats would feel free to take up residence in sheds and houses which most people wouldn't be very comfortable with, the cats are a deterrent to this, while they may not have any great effect on rat populations they certainly keep unwanted vermin away

You'll be surprised to hear that there are houses and neighborhoods that don't have any free roaming cats, and yet those same areas are not inundated with rats as a result...

Scotty #

Stihl waters wrote: »

In a way she is right, if we hadn't cats rats would feel free to take up residence in sheds and houses...

She's not right at all. By her logic and yours... if I didn't keep a cat I'd have a rat problem. That's nonsense. Lots of people who don't keep cats don't have a rats.

Likewise I know plenty of cat owners who are constantly disposing of dead rats left at their back door. If cats are so great at curing the problem, why is there the constant presence of rats then? Could it be that cats actually have no significant impact whatsoever on whether rats are in the vicinity or not?

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

so, if lions escaped in the phoenix park, we should leave them be as them eating all the deer would only be natural?
should we forget about the issues of non-native, and pet animals because 'it's only nature'?

if i shouldn't care about a cat killing sparrows for *no* benefit in my back garden, should i be allowed start killing them too?

It's of benefit to the cat.

We've already got rules for Lions and Cats.

We could always stop birds in urban areas. That would solve the conflict for people struggling with nature.

beauf

Scotty # wrote: »

She's not right at all. By her logic and yours... if I didn't keep a cat I'd have a rat problem. That's nonsense. Lots of people who don't keep cats don't have a rats.

Likewise I know plenty of cat owners who are constantly disposing of dead rats left at their back door. If cats are so great at curing the problem, why is there the constant presence of rats then? Could it be that cats actually have no significant impact whatsoever on whether rats are in the vicinity or not?

Maybe there's not enough cats...

Stihl waters

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

You'll be surprised to hear that there are houses and neighborhoods that don't have any free roaming cats, and yet those same areas are not inundated with rats as a result...

And luckily for them, the area I'm living in is crawling with rats, I had an infestation of them every winter where I was sick of trying to get rid of them every year, (poisoning, live trap, sonar and dead traps) got 2 cats and problem solved nearly instantly, no rats in the shed or sitting on the washing machine when I went in to the shed and plenty dead rats left at the door, i haven't seen a rat in nearly 3 years around my house, all down to my cats. I'd imagine rats aren't everywhere but different things will attract them to move into an area that can maintain their population, maybe you don't see cats in some neighbourhood's as people don't need to have them as there's no major rat problem.

Stihl waters

Scotty # wrote: »

She's not right at all. By her logic and yours... if I didn't keep a cat I'd have a rat problem. That's nonsense. Lots of people who don't keep cats don't have a rats.

Likewise I know plenty of cat owners who are constantly disposing of dead rats left at their back door. If cats are so great at curing the problem, why is there the constant presence of rats then? Could it be that cats actually have no significant impact whatsoever on whether rats are in the vicinity or not?

I'd have a rat problem and had until I got my cats, problem solved, you're telling me cats dropping dead rats at the door isn't curing the problem, maybe not but they act as a deterrent, which is good enough for me

Valresnick

Dogs always off the leads in the biosphere nature reserve on Dollymount beach. Idiot owners walking through the dunes like they’re the lord of the manor. Don’t ban anything, just tax or fine irresponsible owners.

beauf

https://youtu.be/eWuQRSOK0bw

kildare lad

Valresnick wrote: »

Dogs always off the leads in the biosphere nature reserve on Dollymount beach. Idiot owners walking through the dunes like they’re the lord of the manor. Don’t ban anything, just tax or fine irresponsible owners.

A lot of pet owners in general don't really care about anything other than themselves . There's signs in my local park about dogs to be kept on leashes and yet very few do . There was uproar last year when a dog killed a cygnet in the park lake . It's the same with bags of dog pooh thrown into the bushes instead of carrying it to the nearest bin .

Johnner2

magicbastarder wrote: »

we have two cats. they've never killed anything bar some spiders.

are they permanently locked indoors

magicbastarder

yep. IIRC it was originally a strict condition of the cat rescue organisation we got them from, but now they advise it. especially if you live near a busy road.

magicbastarder

kildare lad wrote: »

It's the same with bags of dog pooh thrown into the bushes instead of carrying it to the nearest bin .

saw this twice on a recent walk in some woods. dog **** bags hanging from trees. i mean, why even bother going to the effort of bagging it if that's what you're going to do? just kick it into the undergrowth.

beauf

kildare lad wrote: »

A lot of pet owners in general don't really care about anything other than themselves . ....

Isn't that true of this thread aswell. Choosing birds over everything else.

That said farming and humans arguably have a much larger effect. We are destroying biodiversity in nature. It was noticeable in the first lockdown how much nature seemed to come back.

kildare lad

beauf wrote: »

Isn't that true of this thread aswell. Choosing birds over everything else.

That said farming and humans arguably have a much larger effect. We are destroying biodiversity in nature. It was noticeable in the first lockdown how much nature seemed to come back.

Choosing birds over cats ?? Well it is a wildlife page and cats have no place in the wild , I'm sure it would be a different opinion on a pet /cat lovers page . You're right about farming and biodiversity though . But due to growing population people need to be fed.

beauf

Out of curiosity I looked up the numbers.

I'm open to correction but. They reckon there are 325k cats in Ireland. Maybe 200k are feral apparently. There are a number of organisations trying to control their population.

The focus on this thread is solely on domestic cats (ownership being banned) and not feral cats at all.

tabby aspreme

beauf wrote: »

Out of curiosity I looked up the numbers.

I'm open to correction but. They reckon there are 325k cats in Ireland. Maybe 200k are feral apparently. There are a number of organisations trying to control their population.

The focus on this thread is solely on domestic cats (ownership being banned) and not feral cats at all.

Very rare to see feral cats nowadays, they were very plentiful when I was a child, as were household cats, as none were neutered.
How much of the decline in small bird population is attributed to the decline in the insect numbers, when I
started driving, the car windscreen would be covered in dead insects during the summer, same mowing meadows for silage or hay, insects crawling all over the machinery, you see neither nowadays. The cats here might catch a bird outside, once a year, but catch mice all the time, particularly in the autumn, they could get 4 or 5 a day, and probably more at night.

whisky_galore

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Very rare to see feral cats nowadays, they were very plentiful when I was a child, as were household cats, as none were neutered.
How much of the decline in small bird population is attributed to the decline in the insect numbers, when I
started driving, the car windscreen would be covered in dead insects during the summer, same mowing meadows for silage or hay, insects crawling all over the machinery, you see neither nowadays. The cats here might catch a bird outside, once a year, but catch mice all the time, particularly in the autumn, they could get 4 or 5 a day, and probably more at night.

It's a monoculture now, every field for fodder or grazing is a small number of grass varieties, no meadows of wildflowers.