COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Irish Stones · 03-12-2020 01:59PM

Marhay70 wrote: »

What the UK has approved is exactly the same product as the EU is being asked to approve. If it takes the EU another month to come to the same conclusion as the UK, and in the meantime tens of thousands more people die, that's going to take a lot of explaining

I have understood that UK is following their own rules outside EU's rules, and that's fine.
But a question comes to my mind. If EU is still waiting for the approval from EMA because they want to be absolutely cautious and play safe, would this mean that they could even not approve the vaccine?

timsey tiger · 03-12-2020 02:03PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You can exaggerate the possible effects Of the disease in people and minimise your opinion of the possibilities of the vaccine, but the truth is you don’t know either.

Except, we do know. Only those, who don't want to know, don't know.

Ireland - 73,000 covid cases - 2074 deaths, how many hospitalisations.

Vaccines - 60,000 vaccines - 0 deaths - 0 hospitalisations.

You don't need a post graduate degree in statistics to understand this. If you want to.

Sheep2020 · 03-12-2020 02:08PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

Except, we do know. Only those, who don't want to know, don't know.

Ireland - 73,000 covid cases - 2074 deaths, how many hospitalisations.

Vaccines - 60,000 vaccines - 0 deaths - 0 hospitalisations.

You don't need a post graduate degree in statistics to understand this. If you want to.

Ridiculous post, not a like for like comparison at all

Only a few hundred or so of those in the trial actually got Covid or came anywhere near it

Of those few hundred, a few were sick even with the vaccine and 1 severly sick with the vaccine

Only a challenge trial could draw your conclusions.

Irish Stones · 03-12-2020 02:08PM

brisan wrote: »

Italy has major centres already identified as has Germany

Italy has identified only 300 centres across the whole country, this will have lots of people move, even very long distances, when rules are "not leave your town/city" when in red and orange alert.

Caraibh · 03-12-2020 02:12PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Heard a bloke on an English channel yesterday say they don't know if it will stop transmission. So I'm guessing, they are starting slowly in telling us that things won't be normal anytime soon.

Or ever.

Irish Stones · 03-12-2020 02:13PM

Latest news from what most of you consider it as the least reliable source of news on earth, but anyway, here it is:

https://www.lastampa.it/cronaca/2020/12/03/news/ippolito-chi-ha-avuto-il-covid-non-deve-vaccinarsi-1.39614023
ROMA. «Chi ha avuto il Covid non deve vaccinarsi contro la malattia perché ha sviluppato anticorpi naturali, semmai dovrà controllare il livello di questi anticorpi. E quando questi dovessero scendere, si può riconsiderare una vaccinazione».

"Those who had Covid won't need the vaccine because they had developed natural antibodies, if any, they should check their antibodies titer. Should the titer go down, a vaccination course might be take into consideration."

He also says that a different type of vaccine could be given to those who had Covid already.

drunkmonkey · 03-12-2020 02:15PM

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Not everyone else that wants it can get it. By hitting 70% threshold, it becomes very difficult and far less likely to run into someone who is infectious.

I understand that but is 70% not a very high threshold when the vaccine is 100% effective for the people that need it.
We're applying a threshold we'd like for the flu when that's only between 30 & 60% effective.
I'm just not seeing why the need for 70% if the at risk are supposedly 100% protected.

I'm getting that 70% figure from Luke O'Neill and that was before we knew how effective it was, I don't think he was expecting 95%+

Water John · 03-12-2020 02:24PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I understand that but is 70% not a very high threshold when the vaccine is 100% effective for the people that need it.
We're applying a threshold we'd like for the flu when that's only between 30 & 60% effective.
I'm just not seeing why the need for 70% if the at risk are supposedly 100% protected.

I'm getting that 70% figure from Luke O'Neill and that was before we knew how effective it was, I don't think he was expecting 95%+

70% X 95% = 66%. Once two out of three have immunity, the virus is unlikely to transmit further. It's that simple. Now don't ask again.

03-12-2020 02:25PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I understand that but is 70% not a very high threshold when the vaccine is 100% effective for the people that need it.
We're applying a threshold we'd like for the flu when that's only between 30 & 60% effective.
I'm just not seeing why the need for 70% if the at risk are supposedly 100% protected.

I'm getting that 70% figure from Luke O'Neill and that was before we knew how effective it was, I don't think he was expecting 95%+

The 70% figure is because of the high reproductive number of the virus, estimated to be somewhere around 3, combined with the likelihood of severe disease.

The reproductive number of flu is only around 1.5, and IFR and rate of hospitalisation for flu is much less than Covid.

03-12-2020 02:31PM

Caraibh wrote: »

The data were clear, but they were manipulated to push an agenda.

What about what Professor Risch says about Fauci and HIV?

No, a theory was postulated, tested and disproved. The proponents of the theory got themselves emotionally and professionally invested in the theory however and refused to accept when study after study found no evidence to support the claims. There is zero evidence whatsoever of a cover up or data manipulation.

On fauci and HIV

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/528319-fauci-awarded-lifetime-achievement-award-for-hiv-aids-work-by-elton-john

https://www.thebodypro.com/article/tony-fauci-md-coronavirus

Do a bit of research for yourself rather than parroting the misrepresentations, misinformation and lies peddled by those you follow on Twitter or wherever you get your information

lbj666 · 03-12-2020 02:42PM

brisan wrote: »

I have said this before and I’ll say it again

And we got you the first time

Ashbourne hoop · 03-12-2020 02:45PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

I have understood that UK is following their own rules outside EU's rules, and that's fine.
But a question comes to my mind. If EU is still waiting for the approval from EMA because they want to be absolutely cautious and play safe, would this mean that they could even not approve the vaccine?

Possible, but very unlikely.

ixoy · 03-12-2020 02:52PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I understand that but is 70% not a very high threshold when the vaccine is 100% effective for the people that need it.

But it's not 100% effective.

brisan · 03-12-2020 02:53PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

i presume we should be well fit to vaccinate all vulnerable by end of jan?

I doubt that very much
Unforeseen logistical problems will inevitably arise

funnydoggy · 03-12-2020 03:06PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1202/1181971-ireland-vaccine/

RTÉ again, but feck it

The Government has said the Pfizer BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine could be available in Ireland from early January, if it is approved by the European Medicines Agency in the coming weeks.

It's probably already been posted here, but it was updated with new info this morn.

brisan · 03-12-2020 03:08PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Except they won't actually be going into a hospital. Vaccination centres would be outside on hospital grounds.

Bit of a difference between going into hospital and turning up to a tent outside

Has the plan been released ?
I assume it has and you have read it
Or are you just assuming ??

brisan · 03-12-2020 03:10PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

Italy has identified only 300 centres across the whole country, this will have lots of people move, even very long distances, when rules are "not leave your town/city" when in red and orange alert.

They have a plan
Might not be a great one but it’s a lot more than we have

Pasteur. · 03-12-2020 03:14PM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

How have England approved the vaccine so fast?

I thought it would take a few months to trawl through the data of the studies?

Why is the EU complaining

Sounds like sour grapes

timsey tiger · 03-12-2020 03:20PM

Sheep2020 wrote: »

Ridiculous post, not a like for like comparison at all

Only a few hundred or so of those in the trial actually got Covid or came anywhere near it

Of those few hundred, a few were sick even with the vaccine and 1 severly sick with the vaccine

Only a challenge trial could draw your conclusions.

Wow. Swing and a miss.

03-12-2020 03:22PM

Caraibh wrote: »

So Professor Risch is a conspiracy theorist on Twitter? I quoted the man himself. He blames Fauci for the deaths of those people who died of HIV.

Yet Fauci was awarded a lifetime achievement award for his work on HIV and is widely praised for his work. Maybe that tells you Risch has a axe to grind and maybe not to take everything at face value without fact checking yourself first. Either way, I never commented on the Fauci aspect of your post, only the Hydroxychloroquine, so I fail to see why you are so anxious to get me to respond to this specifically? The slur on Fauci itself was an overt attempt to discredit Fauci with the implicit function of equating the facts on the drug as presented by Fauci with the HIV /AiIDS issue and the invented controversy from the late 80's. If the argument on Hydroxychloriquine was that strong it would stand on its own two feet. The Professor Risch sounds like a bitter little man.

I also notice you prefaced your original post of athe article on this subject with the statment that you could not provide the link? Why not? Was it because it was from the Palmer Foundation pushing Hydroxychloroquine because Clive Palmer purchased 32million doses of it early in the year?

timsey tiger · 03-12-2020 03:33PM

carq wrote: »

Surely the U.K's bullishness is for everyone's benefit?

Sit back and watch the results of their mass vaccine roll out and see how effective it is.
Beats lab testing and trials !

No, there won't be time for this, the EU will be rolling it out before the first UK subjects have developed full immunity.

03-12-2020 03:39PM

Caraibh wrote: »

Because as a new member I am unable to post links.

I believe that Professor Risch is saying that Fauci has previous when it comes to being hostile to drugs. That's the point he was making. I have no reason to believe that it's personal against Fauci.

Yet Fauci is widely praised for his work on HIV including expatiating the clinical trial process

Caraibh · 03-12-2020 03:49PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yet Fauci is widely praised for his work on HIV including expatiating the clinical trial process

I understand that, but all I'm saying is that I found what Professor Risch had to say about him very worrying.

But let's move on and agree to disagree.

stephenjmcd · 03-12-2020 03:49PM

brisan wrote: »

Has the plan been released ?
I assume it has and you have read it
Or are you just assuming ??

Its highly unlikely to be hugely different to other countries.

Quite possible it'll be very similar to the UK one.

They aren't going to have people walking in and out of a hospital to get vaccinated, thats just stupidity. Let's think logically about this.

Your likely to see something very similar to test centres that were deployed around the country.

speckle · 03-12-2020 03:54PM

Have your vaccines arrived?

stephenjmcd · 03-12-2020 03:57PM

Paul Reid " All going well it's realistic to expect Ireland to commence vaccination in the early days of January 2021"

9 ultra low temp freezers have arrived in the country and due to be fully commissioned by next week.

03-12-2020 03:59PM

Caraibh wrote: »

I understand that, but all I'm saying is that I found what Professor Risch had to say about him very worrying.

But let's move on and agree to disagree.

Will leave it with what Fauci said about Risch

“In terms of science and studies, this does raise another question, and I don’t want to relitigate hydroxychloroquine, because the science hasn’t changed on it in the last week or the last day.,” Berman said. “However we did have Dr Harvey Risch from Yale on Monday, and he suggested what you have been saying, that random controlled trials, placebo-controlled trials, you say they’re the gold standards. He says that’s not so. We shouldn’t be so reliant on them when determining the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine.”

“Why do you feel so strongly about those trials?” Berman asked.

“Well, because it is the gold standard,” Fauci said, and explained “You have to compare your intervention with something. Because the medical literature and experience is full of situations of anecdotal retrospective cohort studies that have proven to be wrong.”

“I might add, agreeing with me is virtually every scientist who is competent in clinical trials, that will say that the randomized place placebo-controlled trial is in fact the gold standard,” Fauci added coolly. “So I would have to respectfully totally disagree with him.”

https://www.mediaite.com/news/dr-fauci-sides-with-cnns-john-berman-over-pro-hydroxychloroquine-yale-doc-nearly-every-competent-scientist-agrees/

hmmm · 03-12-2020 04:00PM

Caraibh wrote: »

I understand that, but all I'm saying is that I found what Professor Risch had to say about him very worrying.

But let's move on and agree to disagree.

BTW just as an aside, we call the CMO in Ireland "Tony" not "Anthony". I know it's probably his official name when you're researching, but that's not what he's known as. Feed that back to who-ever is writing the script and trying to discredit Western experts and vaccines.

brisan · 03-12-2020 04:05PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Its highly unlikely to be hugely different to other countries.

Quite possible it'll be very similar to the UK one.

They aren't going to have people walking in and out of a hospital to get vaccinated, thats just stupidity. Let's think logically about this.

Your likely to see something very similar to test centres that were deployed around the country.

And yet someone else pointed out they cant use test centres because people have to be monitored afterwards
I understand it poses problems but its not as though this came out of the blue
What if the EU had passed the vaccine the same time as Britain ?
WE have no plan

brisan · 03-12-2020 04:09PM

hmmm wrote: »

BTW just as an aside, we call the CMO in Ireland "Tony" not "Anthony". I know it's probably his official name when you're researching, but that's not what he's known as. Feed that back to who-ever is writing the script and trying to discredit Western experts and vaccines.

As an aside his name is William Gerard Anthony Holohan
Anybody researching his name would call him William

COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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