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To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.
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CinemaGuy45 wrote: »It really happened and they was not shouting or dramatic scenes.
I can tell you the shop by PM if you like.
The manager said the guard has been instructed this is NOT his job and not to do this again.
Don`t bother thanks. I will take you at your word this time anyway.0 -
CinemaGuy45 wrote: »I wore a mask into a shop a few months ago I ended up leaving the trolly with
some shopping in one of the aisles and I came out and ripped off the mask.
It is stupidity like your post that makes me feel ill at ease while in a shop.
While I can understand it must be very unpleasant for someone who has such a strong reaction to wearing a mask, here's where I'm struggling to reconcile your position/s.
Earlier in the year when posting about freedoms and vulnerable people you stated:CinemaGuy45 wrote: »If you are in an at risk group stay home
Clearly we have different types of 'at risk' people;
Type 1) those who stand a high chance of Coronavirus being fatal.
Type 2) those who might have an unpleasant reaction to wearing a mask.
It's probably fair to say you've identified as being in the Type 2 at risk group so going back to your 'at risk group stay home' opinion, does that apply to one or both at risk groups?0 -
While I can understand it must be very unpleasant for someone who has such a strong reaction to wearing a mask, here's where I'm struggling to reconcile your position/s.
Earlier in the year when posting about freedoms and vulnerable people you stated:
Clearly we have different types of 'at risk' people;
Type 1) those who stand a high chance of Coronavirus being fatal.
Type 2) those who might have an unpleasant reaction to wearing a mask.
It's probably fair to say you've identified as being in the Type 2 at risk group so going back to your 'at risk group stay home' opinion, does that apply to one or both at risk groups?
I have to earn a wage and I have to eat I am not breaking any law.
If I am paid my full wage for staying at home I will gladly do so and my shopping is fetched for me.
Otherwise I am not sick I don't need to stay and home and I am using a lawful exemption.
If people are at risk of dying they are the vulnerable if they want to avoid all risk they can stay at home.
I don't have the option of working from home so unless people are willing to pay me my full wage for staying isolated my answer is quite a rude one.:rolleyes:
I have a disability and to be quite honest if people are at high risk of death that is their problem not mine don't dare put that on me that is the lowest of the low.:mad:0 -
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CinemaGuy45 wrote: »I have a disability and to be quite honest if people are at high risk of death that is their problem not mine don't dare put that on me that is the lowest of the low.:mad:
It has already been put on each us world wide. That is the whol reason that there are lockdowns, mask wearing requirements, travel restrictions and vaccines being developed. It's all being done for the purpose of protecting the vulnerable in society.0 -
CinemaGuy45 wrote: »that is their problem not mine
This cherry picked quote is a typical antimaskers attitude in a nutshell0 -
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Away With The Fairies wrote: »The over reaction? Italy and other European countries choosing who to put on ventilators. Did you want to see Irish doctors choose who to put on ventilators here?
You didn’t read the post but picked out a piece that suited.
Post clearly states over reaction since the initial stages in Feb ,March & April
Remember we had no masks during this period either and if you can’t see there was a total over reaction throughout the Summer when we we getting 9-15 cases per day then your totally brainwashed by the media constantly pushing this.
It was stated we may have up to 100000 deaths on this island. Total hysteric numbers to be talking about.
Thankfully we didn’t and as we all know even the current numbers are sketchy.
The Taoiseach used the same tactics on Friday stating we have over 3000 deaths including the north’s figures for dramatic effect when needed.
The numbers can be used/delivered at a time that suits best which is totally wrong.0 -
CinemaGuy45 wrote: »I can post extreme hypothetical nonsense here past it off as true just to gage peoples views this is a forum not a court.
The incident I spoke about was 95% made up I admit that.
If we all played by your skewed logic and posted 95% extreme hypothetical nonsense, or let's just call it what it is lies, boards would become a discourse of nonesense and would collapse, FACT.I wore a mask into a shop a few months ago I ended up leaving the trolly with
some shopping in one of the aisles and I came out and ripped off the mask.
That's your first real meaty sentence and well worth discussing and suited to this thread. I panicked the first time I went into a supermarket with a mask on, I also abandoned my trolley and bolted to the fresh air. You are not alone. Difference between you and me is I picked myself up and tried again you decided to choose the easier lazier option and self diagnosed yourself.
If it's a FF of FG judge I doubt it. Just look at the history books, Gladis? Ryan was told to suck up the flouride or choose to drink her water from a well as water flouridation was for the benifit of the vulnerable and for the greater good. Your rights thing aint going to fly in Irish law, it's just dribble.If I get refused service......I will push it further.
IF I am refused service it will be up to a judge if the business in engaged in discrimination.CinemaGuy45 wrote: »
I am using a lawful exemption.
Is it using or is it abusing.0 -
Pitch n Putt wrote: »You didn’t read the post but picked out a piece that suited.
Post clearly states over reaction since the initial stages in Feb ,March & April
Remember we had no masks during this period either and if you can’t see there was a total over reaction throughout the Summer when we we getting 9-15 cases per day then your totally brainwashed by the media constantly pushing this.
Spot on.
Mask wearing has very little to do with controlling the spread of the virus based on the observed evidence. As you rightly point out, we had no requirement for masks for the spring and summer and cases declined regardless and remember that the country was - pubs aside - effectively fully reopened in early June, and despite this we saw no outbreaks in supermarkets etc even at the height of the numbers.
Now we have mandatory masks and the cases are rising here and elsewhere where they have far stricter rules around them. But luckily we still have minimal ICU numbers and even fewer deaths here so that's a positive.
What they ARE effective at though is providing a placebo effect for those who need it, and maintaining a level of fear and distrust in others.
Personally I have been using a visor for months now. Still ridiculous but they're still being sold at the door to the local Dunnes so why wouldn't I? I find the masks uncomfortable, ride up into your eyeline, and stuffy and harder to breathe in. But as I've said too.. I live alone, WFH full time and don't really go anywhere besides the shops once/twice a week so I'm no risk to anyone and frankly not concerned about catching what is overwhelmingly likely to be no more than a bad dose for a few days - assuming I even realise I had it.0 -
Spot on.
Mask wearing has very little to do with controlling the spread of the virus based on the observed evidence. As you rightly point out, we had no requirement for masks for the spring and summer and cases declined regardless and remember that the country was - pubs aside - effectively fully reopened in early June, and despite this we saw no outbreaks in supermarkets etc even at the height of the numbers.
Now we have mandatory masks and the cases are rising here and elsewhere where they have far stricter rules around them. But luckily we still have minimal ICU numbers and even fewer deaths here so that's a positive.
What they ARE effective at though is providing a placebo effect for those who need it, and maintaining a level of fear and distrust in others.
Personally I have been using a visor for months now. Still ridiculous but they're still being sold at the door to the local Dunnes so why wouldn't I? I find the masks uncomfortable, ride up into your eyeline, and stuffy and harder to breathe in. But as I've said too.. I live alone, WFH full time and don't really go anywhere besides the shops once/twice a week so I'm no risk to anyone and frankly not concerned about catching what is overwhelmingly likely to be no more than a bad dose for a few days - assuming I even realise I had it.
Your insights are at odds with the scientific community, I doubt you know better than them.0 -
Pitch n Putt wrote: »You didn’t read the post but picked out a piece that suited.
Post clearly states over reaction since the initial stages in Feb ,March & April
Remember we had no masks during this period either and if you can’t see there was a total over reaction throughout the Summer when we we getting 9-15 cases per day then your totally brainwashed by the media constantly pushing this.
It was stated we may have up to 100000 deaths on this island. Total hysteric numbers to be talking about.
Thankfully we didn’t and as we all know even the current numbers are sketchy.
The Taoiseach used the same tactics on Friday stating we have over 3000 deaths including the north’s figures for dramatic effect when needed.
The numbers can be used/delivered at a time that suits best which is totally wrong.
Balls to the science, lets just make up a theory that the government want to brainwash us into wearing masks to promote fear for no aparent reason. Yeah sure.0 -
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Balls to the science, lets just make up a theory that the government want to brainwash us into wearing masks to promote fear for no aparent reason. Yeah sure.
Well there is no justification in the mandatory wearing of masks.
The estimated 100000 deaths didn’t materialise thank god.
Over half the deaths that occurred are dubiously attributed to Covid.
The case numbers are just case numbers the test is completely unreliable.
They used the lamp test in Liverpool recently for mass testing and it had 50% lees positives than the PCR test.
The PCR test can be magnified by x amount of times until you get a positive result which in effect is a false positive due to the over magnification.
Masks were made mandatory long after the worst of this was over. That was February,March,April when we didn’t know who was most susceptible to this virus.
August we made mask mandatory three months after the peak and now they want masks outside 6 months after the peak.
It’s all after timing and optics only.
The real question that needs to be answered is why are we so determined to hold on to this virus? Why the over magnification of test to get cases....
As we are now healthy people are being reported as cases and the whole thing goes on and on.
Masks give the illusion that this killer virus is out there everywhere when in reality it’s not.0 -
Pitch n Putt wrote: »Well there is no justification in the mandatory wearing of masks.
The estimated 100000 deaths didn’t materialise thank god.
Over half the deaths that occurred are dubiously attributed to Covid.
The case numbers are just case numbers the test is completely unreliable.
They used the lamp test in Liverpool recently for mass testing and it had 50% lees positives than the PCR test.
The PCR test can be magnified by x amount of times until you get a positive result which in effect is a false positive due to the over magnification.
Masks were made mandatory long after the worst of this was over. That was February,March,April when we didn’t know who was most susceptible to this virus.
July we made mask mandatory two months after the peak and now they want masks outside 6 months after the peak.
It’s all after timing and optics only.
The real question that needs to be answered is why are we so determined to hold on to this virus? Why the over magnification of test to get cases....
As we are now healthy people are being reported as cases and the whole thing goes on and on.
Masks give the illusion that this killer virus is out there everywhere when in reality it’s not.
The real question is do you believe masks reduce the risk of spreading the virus?
Maybe a better question for you would be, do you even believe there is a dangerous virus? If you don't believe there is then I can understand why you don't want masks, otherwise I am perplexed.0 -
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Pitch n Putt wrote: »...
Masks give the illusion that this killer virus is out there everywhere when in reality it’s not.
And for what purpose are the world's government's trying to get people to wear masks and be afraid of a virus which you claim doesn't exist? What is it they are trying to achieve and why hasn't any of the 10,000s of various government officials around the world spoken out about their master plan for the world's population? How are they all being kept quiet? It's impossible to keep a secret this big.0 -
The real question is do you believe masks reduce the risk of spreading the virus?
Maybe a better question for you would be, do you even believe there is a dangerous virus? If you don't believe there is then I can understand why you don't want masks, otherwise I am perplexed.
Masks are optics only. Distancing is much more beneficial in my view.
Dangerous virus to some. Not all.
We can’t inhibit the lives of many indefinitely for a few.
That may sound harsh but it’s reality unfortunately.0 -
Pitch n Putt wrote: »Masks are optics only. Distancing is much more beneficial in my view.
Dangerous virus to some. Not all.
We can’t inhibit the lives of many indefinitely for a few.
That may sound harsh but it’s reality unfortunately.
Dangerous virus to how many? where do you draw the line and say it is ok to let this many run the risk of dieing because I am too selfish to participate in taking the necessary precautions? It's not even as if wearing a mask is that much of an intrusion. Are you really that selfish.
You might do well to check the HSE website to understand exactly how many people are at serious risk.
No argument on distancing, but masks are not just optics, you are ignoring the facts.0 -
Dangerous virus to how many? where do you draw the line and say it is ok to let this many run the risk of dieing because I am too selfish to participate in taking the necessary precautions? It's not even as if wearing a mask is that much of an intrusion. Are you really that selfish.
You might do well to check the HSE website to understand exactly how many people are at serious risk.
No argument on distancing, but masks are not just optics, you are ignoring the facts.
What's just as "selfish" is expecting the vast majority of the population of this country to continue to comply with restrictions for a thing that is not actually dangerous to them.
You seem to think that we can continue to run a society, country and economy on the basis of the needs of the few who actually ARE at risk indefinitely if we dress it up as "saving lives" and browbeating everyone into compliance.
More than that, you expect people who are not at risk to share your level of concern/worry/fear for something that many have to be actually told they have before they realise it.
None of this is sustainable and before long (because the damage to the economy is very real, as is the growing push back to this approach) people will be told that they need to make their own judgement calls based on their assessment of the level of risk to them or their families.
Because that's the other point - no one is preventing or attacking anyone for being careful, limiting interactions or isolating, or anything else they feel like they need to do to get through this. Do what you need to do.
But stop expecting everyone else to do the same. As I've said several times now, "we're all in this together" is NOT the same as "everyone is in this with me and should share my concerns of the situation"0 -
What's just as "selfish" is expecting the vast majority of the population of this country to continue to comply with restrictions for a thing that is not actually dangerous to them.
You seem to think that we can continue to run a society, country and economy on the basis of the needs of the few who actually ARE at risk indefinitely if we dress it up as "saving lives" and browbeating everyone into compliance.
More than that, you expect people who are not at risk to share your level of concern/worry/fear for something that many have to be actually told they have before they realise it.
None of this is sustainable and before long (because the damage to the economy is very real, as is the growing push back to this approach) people will be told that they need to make their own judgement calls based on their assessment of the level of risk to them or their families.
Because that's the other point - no one is preventing or attacking anyone for being careful, limiting interactions or isolating, or anything else they feel like they need to do to get through this. Do what you need to do.
But stop expecting everyone else to do the same. As I've said several times now, "we're all in this together" is NOT the same as "everyone is in this with me and should share my concerns of the situation"
Very well put!!0 -
What's just as "selfish" is expecting the vast majority of the population of this country to continue to comply with restrictions for a thing that is not actually dangerous to them.
It's not a big deal to ask people to cover their mouth and nose in certain situations with a mask. It is not a big restriction.You seem to think that we can continue to run a society, country and economy on the basis of the needs of the few who actually ARE at risk indefinitely if we dress it up as "saving lives" and browbeating everyone into compliance.
I think we can take reasonable precautions to protect those at risk. Like simply asking people to cover their mouth and nose in certain situations with a mask. We can run the country and mandat mask wearing where appropriate.
I expect people to have some empathy. If some people have to be told they have the virus do you think those same people could unknowingly spread it to people that coud be at risk. Christ, the fact that people don't know they have it makes it worse not better.More than that, you expect people who are not at risk to share your level of concern/worry/fear for something that many have to be actually told they have before they realise it.
How is mandating mask wearing not sustainable?None of this is sustainable and before long (because the damage to the economy is very real, as is the growing push back to this approach) people will be told that they need to make their own judgement calls based on their assessment of the level of risk to them or their families.
...and fsck everyone else?Because that's the other point - no one is preventing or attacking anyone for being careful, limiting interactions or isolating, or anything else they feel like they need to do to get through this. Do what you need to do.But stop expecting everyone else to do the same. As I've said several times now, "we're all in this together" is NOT the same as "everyone is in this with me and should share my concerns of the situation"0 -
What's just as "selfish" is expecting the vast majority of the population of this country to continue to comply with restrictions for a thing that is not actually dangerous to them.
Going by this paragraph alone, I don't think you understand what the word selfish means. And the rest of your post falls flat after that.0 -
It's not a big deal to ask people to cover their mouth and nose in certain situations with a mask. It is not a big restriction.
I think we can take reasonable precautions to protect those at risk. Like simply asking people to cover their mouth and nose in certain situations with a mask. We can run the country and mandate mask wearing where appropriate.
Why? As above, it is not sustainable to continue to ask people to change behaviour, accept restrictions on socialising or just day to day engagement, have their jobs affected etc just to protect the statistically few who ARE at risk from this thing.
I'll quote Mr Spock again - "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few" - especially when talking about national level.I expect people to have some empathy. If some people have to be told they have the virus do you think those same people could unknowingly spread it to people that could be at risk. Christ, the fact that people don't know they have it makes it worse not better.
People have already shown great empathy, patience, support, and indeed sacrifice to protect those who are at risk.
The difference is that you think this is sustainable and we can keep drawing on people's goodwill and sacrifices indefinitely, whereas the reality is that buy-in is dropping weekly as people see for themselves that the majority of people don't get significantly ill from this, things like outbreaks within hospitals themselves, and the sheer illogic of some of the measures (eg: do your grocery shopping in Dunnes.. grand! But go to the clothes section in the same shop - all bets are off!)...and fsck everyone else?
Nope. As above, the country at large has made great efforts to support those at risk, however the time is approaching that they'll need to start taking personal responsibility for that by making their own decisions and risk assessments based on their circumstances.
That's social and economic necessity I'm afraid.. nothing to do with selfishness0 -
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People have already shown great empathy, patience, support, and indeed sacrifice to protect those who are at risk.
The difference is that you think this is sustainable and we can keep drawing on people's goodwill and sacrifices indefinitely, whereas the reality is that buy-in is dropping weekly as people see for themselves that the majority of people don't get significantly ill from this, things like outbreaks within hospitals themselves
It is getting into hospitals because people are picking up outside hospitals, they then may go on to infect others in the hospital, but it's a total red herring to the current ask of ordinary people in relation to masks.
It's a mask. When you are shopping or taking public transport or engaging in specific duties.
It's not a great sacrifice, and it is sustainable with negligible effort and economic cost until such time as enough people are vaccinated.
We make lots of enduring 'sacrifices' e.g. in relation to keeping things safe for children, even though they are not a risk to grown adults.
This is an infectious disease, telling the vulnerable to take personal responsibility is not sufficient. It's an abdication of civic duty."To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)
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Why is it not sustainable to ask people to wear a mask in certian situations when necessary? how exactly is that not sustainiable?Why? As above, it is not sustainable to continue to ask people to change behaviour, accept restrictions on socialising or just day to day engagement, have their jobs affected etc just to protect the statistically few who ARE at risk from this thing.
I'll quote Mr Spock again - "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few" - especially when talking about national level.
In terms of the statistically few who ARE at risk, what is that stasistic? do you know? I don't but I am fairly sure you don't either so you are just assuming it is feck-all and screw them. Have a look at this list https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/people-at-higher-risk.html#high-risk that is more than a few.People have already shown great empathy, patience, support, and indeed sacrifice to protect those who are at risk.
So you have decided that as of today that has to end?
No, I am saying wear a mask to reduce the risk of spreading the virus in certain situations. I think that is entirely sustainable, the rest about goodwill and Dunnes clothes aisles is just you speculating as far as I can see.The difference is that you think this is sustainable and we can keep drawing on people's goodwill and sacrifices indefinitely, whereas the reality is that buy-in is dropping weekly as people see for themselves that the majority of people don't get significantly ill from this, things like outbreaks within hospitals themselves, and the sheer illogic of some of the measures (eg: do your grocery shopping in Dunnes.. grand! But go to the clothes section in the same shop - all bets are off!)
You seem to be coming up with your own timeline, not to mention that you are equating mask wearing with the economic impact of lockdown. They are not the same thing you know, mandating mask wearing is not lockdown or anythign close to it. Mask wearing enables the opening up of the economy more.Nope. As above, the country at large has made great efforts to support those at risk, however the time is approaching that they'll need to start taking personal responsibility for that by making their own decisions and risk assessments based on their circumstances.
That's social and economic necessity I'm afraid.. nothing to do with selfishness0 -
It's not a big deal to ask people to cover their mouth and nose in certain situations with a mask. It is not a big restriction.
Like simply asking people to cover their mouth and nose in certain situations with a mask. We can run the country and mandat mask wearing where appropriate.
yes it is, we all have an inaliable right to bodily integrity
nobody can force you to wear a mask, these are just guidelines that are being broadcasted by RTE and other media to make them look like laws
If a shop owner doesnt want to serve you then its up to the individual to take it further but I have yet to be refused custom in a shop for not wearing a mask or using the shop owned hand sanitizer
I sat in a take away one evening waiting for my food and the girl behind the glass screen must have looked at me at least 10 times and I heard her whisper to her colleague about me not wearing a mask
However in that 10min, she dropped her mask at least 10 times, touching it constantly with her hands, it never once covered her nose and she was touching cash and handing out change to customers
ok, she didnt say anything and if she did I would have pointed out her actions, so as far as I'm concerned masks are filthy and disgusting and not good for you due to the breathing in of your own CO2 so anyone who is wearing them in my opinon is making the situation worse0 -
Lex Luthor wrote: »yes it is, we all have an inaliable right to bodily integrity
You would think so but no we don't, that argument was lost Ryan -v- Attorney General - Supreme Court
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Lex Luthor wrote: »ok, she didnt say anything and if she did I would have pointed out her actions, so as far as I'm concerned masks are filthy and disgusting and not good for you due to the breathing in of your own CO2 so anyone who is wearing them in my opinon is making the situation worse
Sounds like everyone is a winner - you got your food, and felt superior about your choices. And they got rid of you as quickly as possible.0 -
Lex Luthor wrote: »yes it is, we all have an inaliable right to bodily integrity
Masks dont violate bodily integrity anymore than seatbelts in cars or helmets for motorbikes."To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)
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What's just as "selfish" is expecting the vast majority of the population of this country to continue to comply with restrictions for a thing that is not actually dangerous to them.
You seem to think that we can continue to run a society, country and economy on the basis of the needs of the few who actually ARE at risk indefinitely if we dress it up as "saving lives" and browbeating everyone into compliance.
More than that, you expect people who are not at risk to share your level of concern/worry/fear for something that many have to be actually told they have before they realise it.
None of this is sustainable and before long (because the damage to the economy is very real, as is the growing push back to this approach) people will be told that they need to make their own judgement calls based on their assessment of the level of risk to them or their families.
Because that's the other point - no one is preventing or attacking anyone for being careful, limiting interactions or isolating, or anything else they feel like they need to do to get through this. Do what you need to do.
But stop expecting everyone else to do the same. As I've said several times now, "we're all in this together" is NOT the same as "everyone is in this with me and should share my concerns of the situation"
What has that got to do with people making the simple action of wearing a mask for the 5 minutes or so that they're in a shop. Some of these anti mask idiots seem to think they're on a par with Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela, when they're simply saddos with too much time on their hands.
They need to grow up and realise what solidarity and care for others actually involves.0 -
is_that_so wrote: »I've always favoured the common sense than the oikish baseball bat routine. Retail stores are low risk and have been all the way through and staff are more at risk at home. When this is over, shops will return to normality and the last thing they want to be doing is hitting their bottom line because of how they behaved during COVID. I've seen handfuls of people inside without masks and they go about their business, ignored by shop staff, and leave. That's common sense.
No, that's staff sighing, realising there's always going to be selfish morons who care more about their rights than the safety of others, and sucking it up because these morons will probably kick up a stink and demand they lose their jobs if they dare question the non mask wearers, so they have Hobsons choice, no income or endanger their families.
You're just despicable and have no concern for those who are vulnerable.0 -
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Lex Luthor wrote: »ok, she didnt say anything and if she did I would have pointed out her actions, so as far as I'm concerned masks are filthy and disgusting and not good for you due to the breathing in of your own CO2 so anyone who is wearing them in my opinon is making the situation worse
Please tell us more about these cases of people being poisoned by breathing in CO2 because of wearing a mask. What with it being so deadly there must be loads of cases that we've somehow missed, and to think all those surgeons and nurses in operating theaters for the last century never thought to let us know how dangerous it was.0 -
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Lex Luthor wrote: »yes it is, we all have an inaliable right to bodily integrity
nobody can force you to wear a mask, these are just guidelines that are being broadcasted by RTE and other media to make them look like laws
If a shop owner doesnt want to serve you then its up to the individual to take it further but I have yet to be refused custom in a shop for not wearing a mask or using the shop owned hand sanitizer
I sat in a take away one evening waiting for my food and the girl behind the glass screen must have looked at me at least 10 times and I heard her whisper to her colleague about me not wearing a mask
However in that 10min, she dropped her mask at least 10 times, touching it constantly with her hands, it never once covered her nose and she was touching cash and handing out change to customers
ok, she didnt say anything and if she did I would have pointed out her actions, so as far as I'm concerned masks are filthy and disgusting and not good for you due to the breathing in of your own CO2 so anyone who is wearing them in my opinon is making the situation worse
People who wear masks on a daily basis Doctors, nurse, dentists, those who work in pharmaceutical industry are they all making it worse are they filthy and disgusting0
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