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To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

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    #1952
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    Maybe stick to the facts and tell the true story. Embellishing it with BS just renders the entire saga less believable. Extremes never aid any discussion.

    Ok I will do however none of my stories are earth shattering.:D


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    #1953
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »
    I think you misunderstand my point I am not attacking people here if I did not want a discussion I would not have posted and by the way I am not normally like this I can be timid a lot of the time something really has to make me angry to rile me.

    Not this forum but out and about all I was doing was fetching my weekly shop people need to mind their own business I am not required to politely explain anything to people who are being rude and should be minding their own business.

    I have mild Autism by the way physical sensations and sounds can be unbearable to me I can't wear a visor or a mask and I have tried just for the sake of peace.

    All I want when I am out is to be left alone and for people to mind their own business.

    Now I accept my behaviour above may not be my greatest moment but if people minded their own business like they should these situations would not arise.

    I think Irish people are so inherently nosy, they cannot mind their own business.


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    #1954
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    robinph wrote: »
    No shop is required to serve you. If they refuse to serve you because of a lack of you wearing a mask then it's because of the lack of the mask, if you happen to have some disability that warrants your lack of a mask then that is just a coincidence.

    There is no requirement for them to serve you at all, disability or not.

    Discrimination based on disability is illegal.


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    #1955
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    is_that_so wrote: »
    No, but you need to explicitly state what prevents people availing of the service.

    No, you don't.
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Discrimination based on disability is illegal.

    Sorry, you're not going to be served here. You have to leave.

    Job Done


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    #1956
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,768 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Customer: "I have a disability"

    Shopkeeper: "Sorry you're not going to be served here"

    Later...

    Judge: "You must pay the plaintiff €20,000 compensation"


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    #1957
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    growleaves wrote: »
    Customer: "I have a disability"

    Shopkeeper: "Sorry you're not going to be served here"

    Later...

    Judge: "You must pay the plaintiff €20,000 compensation"

    Customer: I have a disability.

    Shopkeeper: Me too, that's one of the reasons I'm wearing a mask, and my partner is clinically vulnerable
    Wear a mask, or get out. Send a freind to shop for you or order online and we'll deliver.


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    #1958
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    growleaves wrote: »
    Customer: "I have a disability"

    Shopkeeper: "Sorry you're not going to be served here"

    Later...

    Judge: "You must pay the plaintiff €20,000 compensation"

    You're assuming that the individual has been refused for a reason that hasn't been given.


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    #1959
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,768 ✭✭✭growleaves


    robinph wrote: »
    Customer: I have a disability.

    Shopkeeper: Me too, that's one of the reasons I'm wearing a mask, and my partner is clinically vulnerable
    Wear a mask, or get out. Send a freind to shop for you or order online and we'll deliver.


    A judge might accept that reasoning, I suppose, or they might not. The law just says that its illegal to discriminate on the grounds of disability.


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    #1960
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Graham wrote: »
    No, you don't.



    Sorry, you're not going to be served here. You have to leave.

    Job Done
    And I'll see you in court for my compo!


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    #1961
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Discrimination based on disability is illegal.

    It's not discrimination. It's requiring people to wear a mask in order to enter your premises.

    They can send someone else to shop for them or order online, or stand outside and get stuff passed to them.


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    #1962
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    growleaves wrote: »
    A judge might accept that reasoning, I suppose, or they might not. The law just says that its illegal to discriminate on the grounds of disability.

    It's not disability that is the reason for refusing service though.


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    #1963
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    robinph wrote: »
    It's not discrimination. It's requiring people to wear a mask in order to enter your premises.

    They can send someone else to shop for them or order online, or stand outside and get stuff passed to them.
    An awful lot of assumptions and discrimination built into that, certainly enough to take a case under the Equality act along with the really bad publicity to go with it.


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    #1964
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,768 ✭✭✭growleaves


    robinph wrote: »
    It's not disability that is the reason for refusing service though.

    I know but since not having a mask is the reason for refusal of service and since the law around masks provides for exemptions, and disability is the reason for the customer's exemption, it could be seen as not providing a reasonable accomodation for the provision of goods and services to the disabled. Especially with a skilled solicitor framing it that way.

    It is definitely the nucleus of a case, though with what chance of success I don't know.


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    #1965
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    Just don't wear a mask ever. It's the equivalent of a big sign on your face saying "I'm a docile retard."


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    #1966
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    is_that_so wrote: »
    And I'll see you in court for my compo!

    Sorry, you don't get automatic compensation for refusal of entry.

    If that were the case, we'd have no pubs left.


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    #1967
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    is_that_so wrote: »
    An awful lot of assumptions and discrimination built into that, certainly enough to take a case under the Equality act along with the really bad publicity to go with it.

    It's no more discrimination than telling people to take their muddy boots off before entering your cafe up the top of a mountain, or that they must wear something other than just swimwear in your beach side bar. Except in this case there is the potential for the health of the staff in your premises to actually be at risk if someone enters without wearing a mask.

    Wear a mask, send someone wearing a mask in on your behalf, order online. But there is not requirement for the staff to be put at risk by customers not wearing masks in any situation.


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    #1968
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    is_that_so wrote: »
    An awful lot of assumptions and discrimination built into that, certainly enough to take a case under the Equality act along with the really bad publicity to go with it.

    Most of the population would be sympathetic to the shop staff.


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    #1969
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    growleaves wrote: »
    I know but since not having a mask is the reason for refusal of service and since the law around masks provides for exemptions, and disability is the reason for the customer's exemption, it could be seen as not providing a reasonable accomodation for the provision of goods and services to the disabled. Especially with a skilled solicitor framing it that way.

    It is definitely the nucleus of a case, though with what chance of success I don't know.

    If it's a case of risk to staff who may be vulnerable and them being put at risk in their place of work versus someone not wearing a mask, for whatever reason, I would anticipate the law to come down on the side of not being put at risk in your place of work.

    Unless it's some unique service that place is providing then the customer can always go elsewhere where the staff may not be vulnerable themselves, or figure out another way to do business without entering the store. The store staff are not under any obligation to put themselves at risk though.


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    #1970
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    robinph wrote: »
    It's no more discrimination than telling people to take their muddy boots off before entering your cafe up the top of a mountain, or that they must wear something other than just swimwear in your beach side bar. Except in this case there is the potential for the health of the staff in your premises to actually be at risk if someone enters without wearing a mask.

    Wear a mask, send someone wearing a mask in on your behalf, order online. But there is not requirement for the staff to be put at risk by customers not wearing masks in any situation.
    I've always favoured the common sense than the oikish baseball bat routine. Retail stores are low risk and have been all the way through and staff are more at risk at home. When this is over, shops will return to normality and the last thing they want to be doing is hitting their bottom line because of how they behaved during COVID. I've seen handfuls of people inside without masks and they go about their business, ignored by shop staff, and leave. That's common sense.


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    #1971
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Graham wrote: »
    Most of the population would be sympathetic to the shop staff.
    Most people don't care what other people are doing. They shop, they pay, they leave.


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    #1972
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,768 ✭✭✭growleaves


    robinph wrote: »
    If it's a case of risk to staff who may be vulnerable and them being put at risk in their place of work versus someone not wearing a mask, for whatever reason, I would anticipate the law to come down on the side of not being put at risk in your place of work.

    Unless it's some unique service that place is providing then the customer can always go elsewhere where the staff may not be vulnerable themselves, or figure out another way to do business without entering the store. The store staff are not under any obligation to put themselves at risk though.


    Yes those are good arguments but often in these kinds of cases both sides anticipate the law will come down in their favour and then one of them loses.

    The judge just has to say: "We all know that there are exemptions for masks in the legislation therefore store staff have no reasonable expectation that all customers will be wearing masks and no right to refuse them service. I rule in favour of the plaintiff."


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    #1973
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    sabat wrote: »
    Just don't wear a mask ever. It's the equivalent of a big sign on your face saying "I'm a docile retard."

    Classy.
    :rolleyes:


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    #1974
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Pitch n Putt wrote: »
    We know very well now who is vulnerable to this virus.

    The rest who are diagnosed with it by means of an over amplified waste of time PCR test are treated by some breakthrough medical scientific treatment...

    This amazing treatment which makes this killer virus disappear is to Stay at home for 14days and you’ll be ok....

    The over reaction to this since the initial stages in Feb March April is very sad to see....

    Logically thinking people from this time last year have lost their mind in 2020 by the constant bombardment of this virus in the news and media.

    The over reaction? Italy and other European countries choosing who to put on ventilators. Did you want to see Irish doctors choose who to put on ventilators here?


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    #1975
    Seanergy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »
    It's true...
    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

    I have mild Autism by the way physical sensations and sounds can be unbearable to me.
    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »
    Most of the story was bull but it was based on a true story.:D

    The sexed up version of events did play out in my head.:D

    things like alarms and noise are just something I have to tolerate face coverings are something I don't have to.

    Anyway sorry for the dramatic bull I always have to take an argument to it's extreme conclusion.
    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

    I carried around a digital copy of the diagnosis should I have an encounter with the Guards.

    Something you don't have to tolerate or cannot? Stink of bull, AGS be all over it.


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    #1976
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    Seanergy wrote: »
    Something you don't have to tolerate or cannot? Stink of bull, AGS be all over it.

    I can post extreme hypothetical nonsense here past it off as true just to gage peoples views this is a forum not a court.

    The incident I spoke about was 95% made up I admit that.

    Now being 100% honest I do have a diagnosis that makes me exempt from face coverings and I genuinely find the sensation unbearable and I have tried.

    I wore a mask into a shop a few months ago I ended up leaving the trolly with
    some shopping in one of the aisles and I came out and ripped off the mask.

    It is stupidity like your post that makes me feel ill at ease while in a shop.

    If I get refused service which so far thankfully I have not and I have had not had any major problems I will push it further.

    I had a security guard follow me around for a bit in a supermarket I explained my exemption but he gave me the line other customers would be complaining to him.
    On my next visit I asked for the manager of the shop and explained the situation and I was told a number of people had also complained about the same security guard.
    I was assured it would not happen again and the shop has made all the staff aware of the lawful exemption people have.

    I don't want problems however IF I am refused service it will be up to a judge if the business in engaged in discrimination.


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    #1977
    John O.Groats
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 837 ✭✭✭John O.Groats


    CinemaGuy45 wrote: »
    I can post extreme hypothetical nonsense here past it off as true just to gage peoples views this is a forum not a court.

    The incident I spoke about was 95% made up I admit that.

    Now being 100% honest I do have a diagnosis that makes me exempt from face coverings and I genuinely find the sensation unbearable and I have tried.

    I wore a mask into a shop a few months ago I ended up leaving the trolly with
    some shopping in one of the aisles and I came out and ripped off the mask.

    It is stupidity like your post that makes me feel ill at ease while in a shop.

    If I get refused service which so far thankfully I have not and I have had not had any major problems I will push it further.

    I had a security guard follow me around for a bit in a supermarket I explained my exemption but he gave me the line other customers would be complaining to him.
    On my next visit I asked for the manager of the shop and explained the situation and I was told a number of people had also complained about the same security guard.
    I was assured it would not happen again and the shop has made all the staff aware of the lawful exemption people have.

    I don't want problems however IF I am refused service it will be up to a judge if the business in engaged in discrimination.

    Did this really happen as described or is it another of your embellished stories?


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    #1978
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    John O.Groats wrote: »
    Did this really happen as described or is it another of your embellished stories?

    It really happened and they was not shouting or dramatic scenes.

    I can tell you the shop by PM if you like.

    The manager said the guard has been instructed this is NOT his job and not to do this again.


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    #1979
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,353 ✭✭✭Tork


    Pro tip. Don't embellish any of your yarns.


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    #1980
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    Tork wrote: »
    Pro tip. Don't embellish any of your yarns.

    I have not had any dramatic blow ups but the thing with the security guard is 100% true there was no raised voices or confrontation.

    The manager did back me up and assured me this would not happen again.


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    #1981
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    sabat wrote: »
    Just don't wear a mask ever. It's the equivalent of a big sign on your face saying "I'm a docile retard."

    That comment says it all about you.

    Glad to see the mods are no longer allowing this kind of crap to fly.:)


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