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Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

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    #1142
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    declanflynn wrote: »
    Did you nod off?

    LOL no, do you think the factories are purposely selling beef to English supermarkets at a discount?


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    #1143
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    wrangler wrote: »
    Why didn't beef plan do what they promised, your statements there are straight out of Beef Plan. They didn't deliver because they just couldn't sell the beef into this wonderful market.
    Underselling or not processors are selling a lot of beef

    Had they got Irish base price back to the sub 3.00€ a kg, dragging uk and European price into the gutter with it,
    And then ensuing retail price coming back and complacently settling into the good times of volume sales (base price in 09 was 2.80€ a kg) it would of been bloody hard to turn around.


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    #1144
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    charolais0153 wrote: »
    LOL no, do you think the factories are purposely selling beef to English supermarkets at a discount?

    There has been no periodic pricewatch of Irish beef in the uk retail market.
    We are only goms staring into a thorny hedge waffling without refutable evidence.


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    #1145
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    charolais0153 wrote: »
    LOL no, do you think the factories are purposely selling beef to English supermarkets at a discount?
    I think they almost dont care what price they get for it, they will always take the same gross margin by reducing their purchase price if the sale price comes down.
    Can you see how they work now?


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    #1146
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,075 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Jjameson wrote: »
    I think this is correct.
    Polish beef is cheap but not cheap enough to knock enough off the retail price to tempt a British consumer.
    And while Irish beef might pass off beside supporting British and so on the Irish beef is more palatable.
    The catering and convenience food sector aren’t as discerning but even Mac Donald’s won’t risk deviation and that speaks volumes.

    Mc donalds buy a lot of Polish beef but don't sell it in uk and here for obvious reasons


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    #1147
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    declanflynn wrote: »
    I think they almost dont care what price they get for it, they will always take the same gross margin by reducing their purchase price if the sale price comes down.
    Can you see how they work now?

    More fool the farmer who doesn't do the same


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    #1148
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    wrangler wrote: »
    Mc donalds buy a lot of Polish beef but don't sell it in uk and here for obvious reasons
    1 in every 4 burgers sold in Europe is made with Irish beef
    Average burger price in Europe is €4.60, farmer gets 21 cents, so a 10% rise in beef prices puts the burger up by 2 cents.
    Can you see the possibilities


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    #1149
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    charolais0153 wrote: »
    More fool the farmer who doesn't do the same
    Can you enlighten us how the farmer can reduce the cost of his inputs by say 10% without reducing the volume


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    #1150
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    declanflynn wrote: »
    Can you enlighten us how the farmer can reduce the cost of his inputs by say 10% without reducing the volume

    We all tell the merchants that the price of fert meal dosing is being pulled next week and no one pay a cent more than our agreed rates ! But that’s probably be illegal...


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    #1151
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    Jjameson wrote: »
    We all tell the merchants that the price of fert meal dosing is being pulled next week and no one pay a cent more than our agreed rates ! But that’s probably be illegal...
    Larry gets away with it


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    #1152
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    declanflynn wrote: »
    1 in every 4 burgers sold in Europe is made with Irish beef
    Average burger price in Europe is €4.60, farmer gets 21 cents, so a 10% rise in beef prices puts the burger up by 2 cents.
    Can you see the possibilities

    4.60€ retail I assume. 2cents on a 50 cent burger wholesale mightn’t be simple to get without duress.


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    #1153
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    declanflynn wrote: »
    Can you enlighten us how the farmer can reduce the cost of his inputs by say 10% without reducing the volume

    It's simple supply and demand, look at the lamb trade and believe it or not, with brexut around the corner I can't see it improving immeasurably, so if your not making money now, get out and give a chance to the rest of the people an dstop wasting everyone's time whinging on and on about things you have no control over


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    #1154
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    charolais0153 wrote: »
    It's simple supply and demand, look at the lamb trade and believe it or not, with brexut around the corner I can't see it improving immeasurably, so if your not making money now, get out and give a chance to the rest of the people an dstop wasting everyone's time whinging on and on about things you have no control over

    Brexit. The big bad monster that the politicians are all saving us from, deadlines with enough elasticity to bounce a tw25 to Mars.
    Which corner?


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    #1155
    kk.man
    Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭kk.man


    I have to confess Beef Plan was a shot. The other night a respected beef man was in my yard and he informed me of the undesirables who were protesting. At the same token the factories were running amuck I know for a fact a certain procurement manager in the se was saying 3e by a certain date. Roll on 2020 and the line in the sand was 3.60 that's the same line when breached caused the strike.
    Where's our famous producer groups now? I have mainly friesian cattle and I've been worse off on the grid since. The beef plan has ended up fighting and little of the demands have been met. The IFA shot themselves in the foot over the Smith affair thus lost credibility which is hard won but easily lost.


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    #1156
    dzer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭dzer2


    Amy one try buy from the factory say a couple of strip loins


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    #1157
    Ard_MC
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭Ard_MC


    declanflynn wrote: »
    yeah I have a fair idea how they work.
    Polish beef will never be able to compete with Irish beef in Britain.
    In the British shoppers eye our beef is a very close second to British beef and close to 20% of British shoppers would see Irish beef as equal or superior to British beef, so we shouldn't be underselling our produce.

    Some lads on here are great at knocking Irish beef and knocking any ideas other posters have but never put forward an idea themselves...

    Firstly I have nothing to do with beef farming, so I am not going to try to pretend that I know anything about it...

    But you say close to 20% British shoppers see Irish beef as on par..think if I was going gamble on selling I'd be try to get the 80+% to buy off me.

    Use to live in the uk and after British. Anyone I met they couldn't give a feck what the ate.

    Again have no skin in the game. Just my opinion.


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    #1158
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    declanflynn wrote: »
    Do you have any ideas beside knocking mine

    I don’t Declan. I should say as well that is not so familiar with the issues either, as I’m not a beef farmer...

    I don’t know what the answer to get more money in your pocket is...
    But a part of me thinks that trying to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result is madness... and as far as I know a beef factory was tried before, and it failed...

    I don’t know the beef market, but let’s say new factories are added - will they just be buying red to sell into the same markets, at the same price points?

    It’s always good to get a niche or unique selling point for our beef, like kerry gold has for our butter...
    I know they are trying to do this with the grass fed beef designation - but eventually I don’t see how this trickles down to the farmer?

    In this world of increased ‘anti-factory farming‘ and visions of feedlots - do we see organic farming playing a bigger role in both production and marketing?
    Or is organic just a step up from the current commodity product we produce?


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    #1159
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,159 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Organic may operate at a different price point but it is already a commodity in mainstream EU markets.


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    #1160
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Jjameson wrote: »
    Brexit. The big bad monster that the politicians are all saving us from, deadlines with enough elasticity to bounce a tw25 to Mars.
    Which corner?

    31st December, Brexit or the loom of it has already led to a cull in ewe numbers and has led to the best year In sheep farming In my lifetime

    Another example of supply and demand, I wonder why its so hard for irish beef framers and beef plan people to understand that

    Even with smaller carcasses nowadays, the kill has to be lowered to nearer 30k a week,


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    #1161
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    charolais0153 wrote: »
    It's simple supply and demand, look at the lamb trade and believe it or not, with brexut around the corner I can't see it improving immeasurably, so if your not making money now, get out and give a chance to the rest of the people an dstop wasting everyone's time whinging on and on about things you have no control over
    You didn't answer the question


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    #1162
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,075 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Water John wrote: »
    Organic may operate at a different price point but it is already a commodity in mainstream EU markets.

    It's very fickle, it's only in the last couple years that Organic sheep farmers are getting Organic price for all their lambs, It'll be interesting to see can the market absorb all the extra organic farmers that coming on stream now......... Our producer group facilitates ICM Camolins suppliers so we'd be aware of the poor maket up to maybe 2017


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    #1163
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,075 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    I don’t Declan. I should say as well that is not so familiar with the issues either, as I’m not a beef farmer...

    I don’t know what the answer to get more money in your pocket is...
    But a part of me thinks that trying to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result is madness... and as far as I know a beef factory was tried before, and it failed...

    I don’t know the beef market, but let’s say new factories are added - will they just be buying red to sell into the same markets, at the same price points?

    It’s always good to get a niche or unique selling point for our beef, like kerry gold has for our butter...
    I know they are trying to do this with the grass fed beef designation - but eventually I don’t see how this trickles down to the farmer?

    In this world of increased ‘anti-factory farming‘ and visions of feedlots - do we see organic farming playing a bigger role in both production and marketing?
    Or is organic just a step up from the current commodity product we produce?

    I led a campaign that actually worked, after that experience I wouldn't like to try to organise a farmers factory...no loyalty among farmers
    Telling IFA to build a factory is a cop out by people that won't even work for IFA and definitely won't do it for themselves


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    #1164
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    wrangler wrote: »
    I led a campaign that actually worked, after that experience I wouldn't like to try to organise a farmers factory...no loyalty among farmers
    Telling IFA to build a factory is a cop out by people that won't even work for IFA and definitely won't do it for themselves

    A farmer owned factory simply wouldn’t work for the reasons outlined and one more, you won’t get a payed man as motivated as an owner.
    The local mart here is a cooperative and is limping along. There’s a privately owned one 40 miles away getting most of the counties cattle.

    The smaller independent abattoirs are the thorn in Larries side.
    Even more so in the uk.


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    #1165
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    kk.man wrote: »
    I have to confess Beef Plan was a shot. The other night a respected beef man was in my yard and he informed me of the undesirables who were protesting. At the same token the factories were running amuck I know for a fact a certain procurement manager in the se was saying 3e by a certain date. Roll on 2020 and the line in the sand was 3.60 that's the same line when breached caused the strike.
    Where's our famous producer groups now? I have mainly friesian cattle and I've been worse off on the grid since. The beef plan has ended up fighting and little of the demands have been met. The IFA shot themselves in the foot over the Smith affair thus lost credibility which is hard won but easily lost.

    I only seen one real undesirable at the protest I was at. A smelly hippie head the ball. He brought a dog and a rucksack. A farmer tried to make small talk with him and he got a spiel of nonsense about “establishment” or something and he had a foot long piece of 3/4 threaded bar on his rucksack!
    He was feeble enough looking but not well in the head . Thankfully he got bored after a while.
    Then at a meeting in the dying days of the protest (slaney was open but a few others were hanging on) a newcomer wanted us to go back with balaclavas!

    But even the ifa isn’t immune from an odd undesirable in the ranks. The links between Wexford ifa and land league stem from one individual who should not hold a position.


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    #1166
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    declanflynn wrote: »
    The IFA in the short term should leave no stone unturned in making sure the factory in Banagher opens.

    Why are Beef plan so obsessed with this total red herring?


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    #1167
    richie123
    Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    bogman_bass wrote: »
    Why are Beef plan so obsessed with this total red herring?

    This new factory in banagher will make absolutely no difference...most factories in country are no where near there slaughter capacity...if the demand was there you can be sure the present factories would cater to that demand.


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    #1168
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    richie123 wrote: »
    This new factory in banagher will make absolutely no difference...most factories in country are no where near there slaughter capacity...if the demand was there you can be sure the present factories would cater to that demand.
    How can we be sure that 8 families haven’t just divided up a billion euro industry between them and are locking newcomers and completion out?
    Isn’t it simply amaazing that everyone of the existing one has the exact same operating margin with no appetite for more output to pay a little more for a few more cattle than someone else?
    If I priced a granite worktop for the kitchen there would be quotes from 3 local companies (2 buying stone from the same supplier) with as much as €600 between them for the same job and spec..
    There is a huge need for players out of the cartel click to shake things up.


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    #1169
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/nine-goodman-companies-made-largely-untaxed-profit-of-170m-1.3943367?mode=amp


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    #1170
    kk.man
    Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭kk.man


    The smaller independent abattoirs are the thorn in Larries side.
    Even more so in the uk.[/quote]

    Certainly not a torn in his side in this country if he asked them to jump they'd ask how high.

    The UK is different much more of them.


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    #1171
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    kk.man wrote: »
    The smaller independent abattoirs are the thorn in Larries side.
    Even more so in the uk.

    Certainly not a torn in his side in this country if he asked them to jump they'd ask how high.

    The UK is different much more of them.[/QUOTE]

    Out of spec cattle, flat pricing, no penalties for fat. A friend of mine sent a stock bull to roscrea last week a3€ a kg. A bad price but Larries local plant bid 2€!
    Yes 2€ a kg and no joke for a healthy big 4 year old bull.


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