Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

wrangler

declanflynn wrote: »

If the IFA could extract themselves from Larry's pocket it would be a great start

That's s childish beef plan talk, beef plan haven't done any better, worse in fact . childish talk, up there with the rest of farmers lies, sad sad sad.
Farmers who come out with that are a joke.

wrangler

declanflynn wrote: »

If the IFA could extract themselves from Larry's pocket it would be a great start

farmers are still too lazy to build their own factory and all their talk last year, absolute joke, making little of them selves

Reggie.

Ah balls.......here we go again

Cattlepen

declanflynn wrote: »

If the IFA could extract themselves from Larry's pocket it would be a great start

OMG!!!!!!
Is this stupid foolish talk being said by people even after the beef plan fiasco? If your beef farming you are involved in a “high value, low margin” business that has never been any different so if it doesn’t suit you GIVE IT UP! Learn some other business. Even the good man family are moving away from it.

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Ah balls.......here we go again

So you accept slanderous liars on boards .... great

Dinzee Conlee

Even though I think this is a bad idea...

If people think farmers need good representation, and the IFA isn’t currently fitting that role for a lot of people...

Then what are the options outside the IFA?

I am not very familiar with the other organisations - but is it correct to say they don’t have the same reach into government/lobbying as the IFA does?

Is there anything the IFA could do to bring them back into favour, and farmers go back to them again?

Or as Panch suggested above - with the IFA trying to be all things to all people, can they ever really succeed again?

Personally - as am part time, I am not dependant on farming to put bread on the table. So it’s easier for me to prod along without representation...
I accept this may be short sighted, but I guess I don’t see what group has my interests at heart...

Constructive comments would be preferred...

wrangler

Cattlepen wrote: »

OMG!!!!!!
Is this stupid foolish talk being said by people even after the beef plan fiasco? If your beef farming you are involved in a “high value, low margin” business that has never been any different so if it doesn’t suit you GIVE IT UP! Learn some other business. Even the good man family are moving away from it.

,Bass has demonstrated this week how good the subs are and the advantages of parttime farming. A lot of farmers are just crying wolf. even the founder of beef plan is drawing well over €50000......kinda knocks the credibility of BP

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

So you accept slanderous liars on boards .... great

?

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Even though I think this is a bad idea...

If people think farmers need good representation, and the IFA isn’t currently fitting that role for a lot of people...

Then what are the options outside the IFA?

I am not very familiar with the other organisations - but is it correct to say they don’t have the same reach into government/lobbying as the IFA does?

Is there anything the IFA could do to bring them back into favour, and farmers go back to them again?

Or as Panch suggested above - with the IFA trying to be all things to all people, can they ever really succeed again?

Personally - as am part time, I am not dependant on farming to put bread on the table. So it’s easier for me to prod along without representation...
I accept this may be short sighted, but I guess I don’t see what group has my interests at heart...

Constructive comments would be preferred...

I've fifty hectares and the average farm size of members farms when I was involved was 38ha , On each of the commitees I was on we concentrated just on that sector, we wouldn't tolerate any interference from other commitees. On the days that we'd meet the government it'd only be our sector we'd be lobbying about so to say that we weren't representing our sector is just more lies. I was on the beef commitee for a short while but I couldn't be bothered with this pointless standing at the gates.
All schemes were 50% financed from Europe so Department were always prepared to discuss schemes to propose to Europe, They'd get their contribution back in taxes very quickly from farmer when the schemes were paid out. The amount of money Ireland has pulled from Europe for farming since 1990 is obscene, or even 1970.

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

?

I don't think you're as thick as you're making out but anyway.

Anyone that says that IFA are influenced by Processors are slandering a lot of people.

Beef Plan destroyed the beef trade for the last eighteen months and yet the haven't learnt that the factories run the business their way and won't be bullied away from that. Why is Beef plan not accusing their own farmers of being in Goodmans pockets, they let him buy beef cheaper than ever we did for the last year

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

I don't think you're as thick as you're making out but anyway.

Anyone that says that IFA are influenced by Processors are slandering a lot of people.

Beef Plan destroyed the beef trade for the last eighteen months and yet the haven't learnt that the factories run the business their way and won't be bullied away from that. Why is Beef plan not accusing their own farmers of being in Goodmans pockets, they let him buy beef cheaper than ever we did for the last year

I was actually referencing this auld nugget of a thread resurfacing rather than any content found therein

Dinzee Conlee

wrangler wrote: »

I've fifty hectares and the average farm size of members farms when I was involved was 38ha , On each of the commitees I was on we concentrated just on that sector, we wouldn't tolerate any interference from other commitees. On the days that we'd meet the government it'd only be our sector we'd be lobbying about so to say that we weren't representing our sector is just more lies. I was on the beef commitee for a short while but I couldn't be bothered with this pointless standing at the gates.
All schemes were 50% financed from Europe so Department were always prepared to discuss schemes to propose to Europe, They'd get their contribution back in taxes very quickly from farmer when the schemes were paid out. The amount of money Ireland has pulled from Europe for farming since 1990 is obscene, or even 1970.

It was different then though Wrangler - getting the best deal for everyone was easier. All members wanted as high a SFP as possible...

But now, it’s more difficult now... Some people have good SFP, some don’t... The pot is getting smaller...

But this is my point... The IFA are trying to represent too many different interests who all want different things...

older by the day

It will be interesting in the next few years to see how the sfp budget will be decided. Surly it can't be divided because I had a lot of cattle twenty years ago? Most of the small suckler /dry stock farmers I know are subsidizing the farms with old age pensions or off farm income or the milk account. Can't see this continue. Costs keep rising. I can't remember the last time I saw a bill for a couple of hundred. I'm just grumpy, farm/cars insurance bill came today, paid vet for tubes and testing yesterday...

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

It was different then though Wrangler - getting the best deal for everyone was easier. All members wanted as high a SFP as possible...

But now, it’s more difficult now... Some people have good SFP, some don’t... The pot is getting smaller...

But this is my point... The IFA are trying to represent too many different interests who all want different things...

True, none of our committees will lobby to take money from other farmers, they can f...of and get their own money and I'd be proud of that. begrudgey is a miserable attitude
There's no organisation that can provide the professional infrastructure that IFA does, it's basically maybe ten organisations under the one roof, Beef plan are a one trick pony and still couldn't get their act together, don't hear much from INHFA now either, ICSA wouldn't publish their membership numbers so can't be great,
This idea of beef plans of publishing sinn feins support or one of the independent TDs when it won't make any difference doesn't fool anyone.
Farmers sitting back and thinking a few others will do the work will eventually blow up in their faces, I can't and won't be the only one that eventually said ****em. and left

Jjameson

If we (the ifa) don’t tackle the beef processing cartel issue, the next time the processing cartel and uk retailers pull a coup angry farmers will again follow someone who makes the right noises.

The ifa are almost indistinguishable from Fianna Gael and Fianna Fáil in terms of lobbying Europe for payments and to be fair that’s not a bad thing but phone deals and discounted Willy warmers are not going to keep interest in the thing at grass roots level.

And I fully agree with a lot of the sentiments toward politics the beef plan want to be reps.

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

I was actually referencing this auld nugget of a thread resurfacing rather than any content found therein

Had a look through the farming independent the other day. Why bother bringing up the Pat Smith thing now?

K.G.

Sorry for bringing this up.its just there was no one involved around here so no one to ask about it

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

If we (the ifa) don’t tackle the beef processing cartel issue, the next time the processing cartel and uk retailers pull a coup angry farmers will again follow someone who makes the right noises.

The ifa are almost indistinguishable from Fianna Gael and Fianna Fáil in terms of lobbying Europe for payments and to be fair that’s not a bad thing but phone deals and discounted Willy warmers are not going to keep interest in the thing at grass roots level.

And I fully agree with a lot of the sentiments toward politics the beef plan want to be reps.

The phone business has as much to do with IFA as FBD or farmers journal has, very little cross over, It never made as much as was expected, but any profit at all is a help to IFA. Pat smith dreamt it up, I wonder is he still getting a salary/directors fees out of it,

wrangler

whelan2 wrote: »

Had a look through the farming independent the other day. Why bother bringing up the Pat Smith thing now?

Farming Indo are anti IFA, they'd love to put the boot in.
It's ironic that Deane was the whistle blower, He was on the gravy train himself when deputy presidents were paid more than president is now and also he was Deputy president when Pats deal was negotiated so probably was aware of the opprtunities Pat had got for himself at the time

wrangler

K.G. wrote: »

Sorry for bringing this up.its just there was no one involved around here so no one to ask about it

If you follow it on Beef Plan Facebook you'll see they're still bickering. always complaining About IFA , You'd imagine they wer lobbying IFA to lobby the government They're trying to tell IFA what to do despite not being able to run their own Organisation

Panch18

It's not the IFA and structures it has in place that i am necessarily worried about.

It at grass routes level - the farmers themselves.

I'm not sure that the way modern farming is that we can see a united organisation to keep the majority of farmers happy. Because if someone feels they aren't getting the representation they need from an organisation then they leave or else are absent members.

If the Beef Plan, which was built on the back of huge anti Larry, anti IFA sentiment couldn't bring beef farmers together to form a solid group then what can bring beef farmers together? Is it even possible to do?

wrangler

Panch18 wrote: »

It's not the IFA and structures it has in place that i am necessarily worried about.

It at grass routes level - the farmers themselves.

I'm not sure that the way modern farming is that we can see a united organisation to keep the majority of farmers happy. Because if someone feels they aren't getting the representation they need from an organisation then they leave or else are absent members.

If the Beef Plan, which was built on the back of huge anti Larry, anti IFA sentiment couldn't bring beef farmers together to form a solid group then what can bring beef farmers together? Is it even possible to do?

Nothing only a scarcity will change the beef price, I don't know if that'll happen any time soon.

Jjameson

Panch18 wrote: »

It's not the IFA and structures it has in place that i am necessarily worried about.

It at grass routes level - the farmers themselves.

I'm not sure that the way modern farming is that we can see a united organisation to keep the majority of farmers happy. Because if someone feels they aren't getting the representation they need from an organisation then they leave or else are absent members.

If the Beef Plan, which was built on the back of huge anti Larry, anti IFA sentiment couldn't bring beef farmers together to form a solid group then what can bring beef farmers together? Is it even possible to do?

We wouldn’t stick together in a barrel of glue. To quote a post on this some time back!
I don’t think it’s possible.

Panch18

wrangler wrote: »

Nothing only a scarcity will change the beef price, I don't know if that'll happen any time soon.

I'm talking about from an overall point of view and not about the price of beef, or milk or grain or pigs or anything.

It's the basis of farm representation that i am questioning

Also i'm not in any way putting a slight on IFA or any other farming org

Just thinking theoretically or whatever you want to call it

Panch18

Jjameson wrote: »

We wouldn’t stick together in a barrel of glue. To quote a post on this some time back!
I don’t think it’s possible.

Why do you think that is J?

Was it always that way - like back in the 60's and 70's or has it changed?

Do you think you can have a "super" organisation like IFA representing all farmers in all sectors?

Do people think the specialisation of agri has made us weaker as a group?

I have no answers or solutions or anything like that by the way - just thinking out loud really

wrangler

Panch18 wrote: »

I'm talking about from an overall point of view and not about the price of beef, or milk or grain or pigs or anything.

It's the basis of farm representation that i am questioning

Also i'm not in any way putting a slight on IFA or any other farming org

Just thinking theoretically or whatever you want to call it

I would've thought farmers are well looked after with subsidies, tax concessions, etc especially in an era when the country is nearly broke and hospitals, housing, disability etc need money more than the farmers do

Panch18

I just think we have massive issues to contend with in the next decade and we will need the strongest possible representation that we can have to help us weather the storm.

Items such as:

The Great Food Revolution - plant based diet
Green House gases
Water quality - Max stocking limits
Falling subsidies from Europe
Ever overpowering regulation - a licence to milk cows??
And of course rubbish prices

And this list is endless

How can we fight these if we are not united? We are going to be fighting against huge organisations with unlimited funds Governments, WEF, etc. And with money comes power.

Are Irish farmers ready for this?

Reggie.

Panch18 wrote: »

I just think we have massive issues to contend with in the next decade and we will need the strongest possible representation that we can have to help us weather the storm.

Items such as:

The Great Food Revolution - plant based diet
Green House gases
Water quality - Max stocking limits
Falling subsidies from Europe
Ever overpowering regulation - a licence to milk cows??
And of course rubbish prices

And this list is endless

How can we fight these if we are not united? We are going to be fighting against huge organisations with unlimited funds Governments, WEF, etc. And with money comes power.

Are Irish farmers ready for this?

None.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

don't hear much from INHFA

Perhaps you've let your membership lapse :pac:

Jjameson

Jjameson wrote: »

We wouldn’t stick together in a barrel of glue. To quote a post on this some time back!
I don’t think it’s possible.

Correct.

Panch18 wrote: »

I just think we have massive issues to contend with in the next decade and we will need the strongest possible representation that we can have to help us weather the storm.

Items such as:

The Great Food Revolution - plant based diet
Green House gases
Water quality - Max stocking limits
Falling subsidies from Europe
Ever overpowering regulation - a licence to milk cows??
And of course rubbish prices

And this list is endless

How can we fight these if we are not united? We are going to be fighting against huge organisations with unlimited funds Governments, WEF, etc. And with money comes power.

Are Irish farmers ready for this?

I think you're spinning your wheels with this thinking Panch, greed & individualism is the order of the day with a healthy opening for creating widening division from lobbying the powers that be.