Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Keep Sluicing

wrangler wrote: »

Officers are all elected by members, they wouldn't be elected if they didn't represent their counties, there's meetings in every county every month, so your comments are pathetic and begrudging,
I was well represented and have only 50 Has, so I'm not one of your so called ''big guys'' Maybe you should look inside your own farm gate if you're in a mess.
There's lots of farmers getting money out of Glas.
You mustn't be on here long if you haven't seen the whingeing and begrudgery on here when I'd be flagging protests in the past......there was anything but good support for them...How the f..k could anyone represent yous, the present national officers have my sympathy, how many time has it been said on here that protests were vote seeking etc etc.
You want schemes and when ye get them there's a whinge, go on teh dole if ye want something for nothing .....childish or what

Only 50 Hectares, I'm sorry to tell you, but you're a lot closer to "one of the big guys" than the ordinary beef or sheep farmer.

charolais0153

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

Only 50 Hectares, I'm sorry to tell you, but you're a lot closer to "one of the big guys" than the ordinary beef or sheep farmer.

Be a big farmer round West of Ireland but East and south would be similar I'd imagine?

Dinzee Conlee

charolais0153 wrote: »

Be a big farmer round West of Ireland but East and south would be similar I'd imagine?

My missus is from up the country - around 30acres seems to have been the standard farm size historically...
Where I am from in Cork, 50-60acres would have been the go of it...
But where me Ma is from, also in cork - farms would always have been 80-100 acres or so...

So it’s very location dependant...

Dinzee Conlee

older by the day wrote: »

That's grand so then. We will all just sit back and wait and won't bother protesting. While your busy thinking up schemes like the new GLAS and the beef grid. Make sure to look after the big SFP for the big guys. Don't dare cap that . No change there anyway.

Coonagh’s comment was only related to expenses, to clarify one item...
They said some criticism of the IFA was probably due... I think it was a fair, honest post...

Then you tore into them about protests, GLAS, SFP...
A small bit unfair I think...

older by the day

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Coonagh’s comment was only related to expenses, to clarify one item...
They said some criticism of the IFA was probably due... I think it was a fair, honest post...

Then you tore into them about protests, GLAS, SFP...
A small bit unfair I think...

The heat, the wife is cranky and I failed the test on the hilux. I'm so sorry for offending the union. The glas is great it was 8500 here the new thing is 3000. The SFP was 12k but due to constant reductions in the past ten years that's down to 9700. At least the early retirement to look forward too.. **** that's lost too .

wrangler

gerryirl wrote: »

lets not make this personal please. you dont know me or what ive done for farming and for the record I have gained substantial funding for the local farming community a number of months ago so yes i did get off my arse and do something so i think I have just as good a right as anyone to criticise where I see fit

Anonymous criticism is pathetic anyway, whinge on then

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Anonymous criticism is pathetic anyway, whinge on then

Talk about a blow below the belt. You are once again playing the man not the ball wrangler. A bit of the school yard bully once again. Pick on someone your own size. GerryIrl has been on here a year or so. We are all anonymous on this forum ( until someone figures us out or we happen to pull open our coats which is a personnel choice). We express our opinion debate the issues and take the flak.

However you seem to want to express your opinion and when it is not accepted as gospel you throw the toys out of the pram by throwing dirty dig or two. Myself and GI have had a few go'es at each other over the last year. GI is an advacote of suckler's and there progeny and I am just a stupid store to summer finisher. If there is a few bob on there back I will try to figure it out. I believe in neither efficiency or output just profitability. More are following that concept. Obviously once again you lost the debate/argument.

IFA is part of the failed system. It began to believe in it own righteousness and worse still you believe it as well. I had expected that BPM protest would max oyt out at 5-700, it got 3.5K If they manage the next one right it will be nearer 10K. Its not an IFA rent a crowd where they ring around to fill the bus.

For the last 10 years IFA has refused to engaged with the part time farmer, we have seen the emergence of first the ICSA about 20 years ago, then the INHFA and now the BPM. I think they are on a learning curve where they go from here is questionable.

However your beloved IFA is struggling. It is losing members but also it exclusion of part time farmers from officer positions is now draining the organistion. Over the last 10 years it has drifted from looking after farmers to looking after selected farmers. It has left a large disenfranchised group outside the organisation who have gone elsewhere for representation

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Talk about a blow below the belt. You are once again playing the man not the ball wrangler. A bit of the school yard bully once again. Pick on someone your own size. GerryIrl has been on here a year or so. We are all anonymous on this forum ( until someone figures us out or we happen to pull open our coats which is a personnel choice). We express our opinion debate the issues and take the flak.

However you seem to want to express your opinion and when it is not accepted as gospel you throw the toys out of the pram by throwing dirty dig or two. Myself and GI have had a few go'es at each other over the last year. GI is an advacote of suckler's and there progeny and I am just a stupid store to summer finisher. If there is a few bob on there back I will try to figure it out. I believe in neither efficiency or output just profitability. More are following that concept. Obviously once again you lost the debate/argument.

IFA is part of the failed system. It began to believe in it own righteousness and worse still you believe it as well. I had expected that BPM protest would max oyt out at 5-700, it got 3.5K If they manage the next one right it will be nearer 10K. Its not an IFA rent a crowd where they ring around to fill the bus.

For the last 10 years IFA has refused to engaged with the part time farmer, we have seen the emergence of first the ICSA about 20 years ago, then the INHFA and now the BPM. I think they are on a learning curve where they go from here is questionable.

However your beloved IFA is struggling. It is losing members but also it exclusion of part time farmers from officer positions is now draining the organistion. Over the last 10 years it has drifted from looking after farmers to looking after selected farmers. It has left a large disenfranchised group outside the organisation who have gone elsewhere for representation

No organisation is able to do any better than IFA, yet IFA is the bad guys, national officers are elected by farmers and there's monthly meetings for the members, it can't be any more inclusive than that.
I actually had an interesting chat last night, I was in Grand Canal Dock and a guy sat down beside us mad for a chat, He had made and lost millions and was now flying again....the pub we were in was his. Any way he butted in when we mentioned sheep and asked why he couldn't source decent leg of lamb and went on from there, He was very critical of our beef and lamb. Then he went on to Mercusor and said farmers should now toughen up and compete and he should have the choice of Argentinian meat if he wants it. My OH agreed that the policy of not allowing in a choice was arrogant too and as for the lamb we don't buy lamb, quality is too inconsistent
He has to compete in his business I suppose and was critical of IFA for opposing competition.
I really enjoyed his positivity and he caused to be late for the friends we were meeting. Two of my tenants are very positive dairy farmers and say you have to have positive people around you, There's no doubt this guy was infectious too.
I know plenty of parttime farmers on National Committees.... some even on here

wrangler

There's seven farm Organisations, all have failed, they have one common denominator.......farmers.
Shouldn't be hard to work out the problem

coolshannagh28

Farmers have been brow beaten down the years , seeking profit in a subsidised system designed to yield cheap food not profit , the writing is on the wall now and the farm organisation that can recognise that maximising subsidy , minimising costs and pushing back over regulation, is the one that will succeed . At the moment the BPM seems to realise this and is connecting with farmers , if they can keep the numbers up it will be a death knell for the IFA .

wrangler

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Farmers have been brow beaten down the years , seeking profit in a subsidised system designed to yield cheap food not profit , the writing is on the wall now and the farm organisation that can recognise that maximising subsidy , minimising costs and pushing back over regulation, is the one that will succeed . At the moment the BPM seems to realise this and is connecting with farmers , if they can keep the numbers up it will be a death knell for the IFA .

A poster here in the last few post claiming entitlement to schemes/subsidies when in fact schemes are very hard delivered and can stop anytime, government have no obligation to give us anything.
EU won't allow schemes unless there's a serious payback and the €100m is an example of this,
BPM won't deliver anything on prices so will have to deliver on subsidies and mark new rules and regulations if they take over from IFA as well as represent farmers in Europe.
This will all have to be done against a rising unimportance of farmers in the electorate

Bass Reeves

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Farmers have been brow beaten down the years , seeking profit in a subsidised system designed to yield cheap food not profit , the writing is on the wall now and the farm organisation that can recognise that maximising subsidy , minimising costs and pushing back over regulation, is the one that will succeed . At the moment the BPM seems to realise this and is connecting with farmers , if they can keep the numbers up it will be a death knell for the IFA .

I think the IFA will coexist however it influence on policy will be much diminished. Up until 10 years ago the IFA could walk into a meeting and say we represent the majority of farmers. During the 90's it became obsessed with financing the organisation It allowed its permanent offices to rule the organisation and lost touch with a lot of ordinary farmers. It president was virtually gauranteed to be headhunted after serving there term to run for a political party. It represented the status quo and this lead to no change. Any organisation that fails to change and adapt is under pressue as it will lose members

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think the IFA will coexist however it influence on policy will be much diminished. Up until 10 years ago the IFA could walk into a meeting and say we represent the majority of farmers. During the 90's it became obsessed with financing the organisation It allowed its permanent offices to rule the organisation and lost touch with a lot of ordinary farmers. It president was virtually guaranteed to be headhunted after serving there term to run for a political party. It represented the status quo and this lead to no change. Any organisation that fails to change and adapt is under pressure as it will lose members

In a democratic organisation they are entitled to say they represent their members surely. If a member can't be bothered going to meetings, well IFA can't help that, accusing me of taking money from the organisation for attending protests is not only incorrect but an insult as well, How much more barstool rubbish is flying around..... they are so easily led.
Just an example of small mindedness, The NRA roads deal delivered millions to famers, A consultant came to me before the road deal to get my claim and told me what he'd get for me, I'm sure he didn't underestimate it either as he wanted the business, The IFA road deal delivered 60% more. Pat Smith wanted €50 from every landowner involved and I was supposed to collect it, but one neighbour told me IFA had enough. He got €500k, told me he was going to put itin bank shares, I told him not to. (my own accountant had told me not to go near bankshares or property) I often tell him now that he thought €50 was dear, His 500k is probably worth €50 now
They'd be better off losing members than the members undermining them.
They'd be better off with 30000 good members and get on with it.

tanko

Barstool rubbish indeed.

wrangler

tanko wrote: »

Barstool rubbish indeed.

Exactly, along with the saddo that accused me of being paid to go to an IFA funeral
You couldn't make it up

coolshannagh28

wrangler wrote: »

A poster here in the last few post claiming entitlement to schemes/subsidies when in fact schemes are very hard delivered and can stop anytime, government have no obligation to give us anything.
EU won't allow schemes unless there's a serious payback and the €100m is an example of this,
BPM won't deliver anything on prices so will have to deliver on subsidies and mark new rules and regulations if they take over from IFA as well as represent farmers in Europe.
This will all have to be done against a rising unimportance of farmers in the electorate

Nobody is claiming entitlement to schemes, your narrative is that they are delivered by the IFA, they are a EU policy as food production is unprofitable and the funds are allocated to govts to distribute as they see fit with advise from farm organisations like the IFA . They then try to direct funds to their members, this has created conflict with many farmers who do dot perceive the IFA are representing their interests adequately. Hence the growth of BPM .

wrangler

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Nobody is claiming entitlement to schemes, your narrative is that they are delivered by the IFA, they are a EU policy as food production is unprofitable and the funds are allocated to govts to distribute as they see fit with advise from farm organisations like the IFA . They then try to direct funds to their members, this has created conflict with many farmers who do dot perceive the IFA are representing their interests adequately. Hence the growth of BPM .

I'm confident BPM will just confirm that IFA have done their best,
Joe Healy is on telly this morning as he has been for the last few weeks

bogman_bass

I was at the protest last week. Felt I had to go as if there was no crowd it would be a failure. To be hinders I was very disappointed.
Real numbers were about 900 by my eye.
Now every other protest has the numbers exaggerated but that’s what I would put it down as.
I was t disappointed by that though.

The independents are playing the beef plan like the fiddle and they can’t see it.
Fitzmaurice was the worst of them. A complete yobbo.

High Doyle threatened civil disobedience from the stage if they need to come back.
If you use a threat like that you have to follow through and that could see lads sitting in a cell

K9

bogman_bass wrote: »

I was at the protest last week. Felt I had to go as if there was no crowd it would be a failure. To be hinders I was very disappointed.
Real numbers were about 900 by my eye.
Now every other protest has the numbers exaggerated but that’s what I would put it down as.
I was t disappointed by that though.

The independents are playing the beef plan like the fiddle and they can’t see it.
Fitzmaurice was the worst of them. A complete yobbo.

High Doyle threatened civil disobedience from the stage if they need to come back.
If you use a threat like that you have to follow through and that could see lads sitting in a cell

All these independents had a chance to be part of the government after the last election too but it’s easier to play the populist card in opposition.

patsy_mccabe

bogman_bass wrote: »

.........
Fitzmaurice was the worst of them. A complete yobbo......

At one of the mart meetings up the country he called the Genomics Scheme the greatest load of bollix he'd ever seen. If that's not playing the gallery, what is? A yobbo, is right.

patsy_mccabe

Bass Reeves wrote: »

..... I believe in neither efficiency or output just profitability. More are following that concept......

Just on this point. The only problem with chasing profit is that it is totally dependent on beef price. If factory prices are high, pushing stocking rate and fertiliser/lime use makes sense. When prices are on the floor, like at the moment, cutting back on lime/fertiliser etc may save you money in the short term but the reduced fertility of the land will be felt for years to come.
When it makes sense to remp up again, all those costs will have accumulated in the meantime and you will be looking at higher store prices aswell.

Bass Reeves

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Just on this point. The only problem with chasing profit is that it is totally dependent on beef price. If factory prices are high, pushing stocking rate and fertiliser/lime use makes sense. When prices are on the floor, like at the moment, cutting back on lime/fertiliser etc may save you money in the short term but the reduced fertility of the land will be felt for years to come.
When it makes sense to remp up again, all those costs will have accumulated in the meantime and you will be looking at higher store prices aswell.

Efficiency is chasing output. profitability is slightly different. On medium/Good land medium use fertlizer nearly always pays. I prefer to spend money on fertlizer than on ration. Then again my system is store to finish. Extra weight from grass always increases profitable. My grass can often be start stop in that I try not to grow grass that will end up being take out of paddocks for bales. In beef excess grass is a cost as well. Really tight on grass at present but the rain this week should push growth as again.

If you do not keep your soil fertility and PH fairy right you can end up with longer winter housing and using more ration to supplement. But profitability also make you more aware of looking at envoirmental schemes and making sure that chasing output is not limiting access to these schemes. Because of reseeding I had no access to LIPP in the last GLAs schme. This cost me 2-3K. I do not think I would have gone for traditional meadow but I see a neighbour that has adapted it into his system by closing Mid April and cutting early july he gets a fairly good quality haylage product out of it.

declanflynn

The only hope we have is the Asian/ Chinese market we should be making sure that the proposed Chinese beef processing plant in Banagher gets the go ahead without even the smallest issue

K.G.

Is beef plan still existing and how is it now structured. Dont want to start a rehash of the blockades debate i was only wondering did they get their problems sorted

Jjameson

K.G. wrote: »

Is beef plan still existing and how is it now structured. Dont want to start a rehash of the blockades debate i was only wondering did they get their problems sorted

There’s beef plan, the real beef plan , the continuity beef plan, the IFOI, the real IFOI.
But with that said there’s effectively nothing of them.
Il just throw” IFA “ in here as it will bring the defender of the realm out without fail as beef plan manage to antagonise the hell out of him!

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

There’s beef plan, the real beef plan , the continuity beef plan, the IFOI, the real IFOI.
But with that said there’s effectively nothing of them.
Il just throw” IFA “ in here as it will bring the defender of the realm out without fail as beef plan manage to antagonise the hell out of him!

You're right, they're only a joke now, no one'll take them serious now any way.

Sacrolyte

I thank you Gandalf.

Panch18

as some may know i was against the beef plan and it's blockade of the factories

It is a shame however that it has descended into something resembling monty python sketch with the peoples front of Judea and the judean people front

This hightlights a couple of worrying things for me:

1) that the needs and wants of beef farmers are actually quite diverse and there are a lot of different viewpoints out there - if the anti IFA sentiment that was so strong last year isn't enough to get another strong group off the ground i don't know what is

2) the IFA faces an impossible task - and that is to please all of the people all of the time. IT is literally impossible and it is making the organisation weaker for it. The problem as i see it that in the 50's-90's mixed farming dominated so if the IFA were campaigning for higher pig prices everybody was on board, grain price poor lets all support a protest as we are all effected. Nowadays mixed farming is all but finished so i have no clue how the IFA can organise itself in such a way as to support everybody. If they protest about grain price then the dairy, beef and pig men a like hold on higher grain means higher meal prices, its hard for me to support that. If there's a dairy price protest the beef lads will be thinking them bloody dairy lads are already driving the price of land rental crazy. Maybe the only common denominator is that we are all receiving crap prices no matter what we produce. I don't know, i just find it very hard for the IFA to have an all encompassing platform to work from that can please everybody. It's nearly impossible.

Funny thing is we need a real strong IFA and real strong leadership now more than ever

wrangler

Panch18 wrote: »

as some may know i was against the beef plan and it's blockade of the factories

It is a shame however that it has descended into something resembling monty python sketch with the peoples front of Judea and the judean people front

This hightlights a couple of worrying things for me:

1) that the needs and wants of beef farmers are actually quite diverse and there are a lot of different viewpoints out there - if the anti IFA sentiment that was so strong last year isn't enough to get another strong group off the ground i don't know what is

2) the IFA faces an impossible task - and that is to please all of the people all of the time. IT is literally impossible and it is making the organisation weaker for it. The problem as i see it that in the 50's-90's mixed farming dominated so if the IFA were campaigning for higher pig prices everybody was on board, grain price poor lets all support a protest as we are all effected. Nowadays mixed farming is all but finished so i have no clue how the IFA can organise itself in such a way as to support everybody. If they protest about grain price then the dairy, beef and pig men a like hold on higher grain means higher meal prices, its hard for me to support that. If there's a dairy price protest the beef lads will be thinking them bloody dairy lads are already driving the price of land rental crazy. Maybe the only common denominator is that we are all receiving crap prices no matter what we produce. I don't know, i just find it very hard for the IFA to have an all encompassing platform to work from that can please everybody. It's nearly impossible.

Funny thing is we need a real strong IFA and real strong leadership now more than ever

Ironically I've said similar to that a couple of times in the last week
I wouldn't agree on not representing every sector, they're like a whole lot of organisations sharing a common infrastructure at teh moment, there's a committee for every sector and it depends on the effort the individual committees put in, sheep committee driving the sheep welfare scheme, livestock committee on the Beam/beep Scheme etc. Environment marking regulations and Business Committee on economy and ensuring a budget for Agriculture. Beef plan only highlighted that hassling the factories is stupid and a waste of time which the rest of us found out years ago. IFA wouldn't blackguard people or product the way BP has ,(mostly lies) .
There must be 500 farmers on Commitees, if a sector isn't represented it's because they're not bothered

declanflynn

Panch18 wrote: »

as some may know i was against the beef plan and it's blockade of the factories

It is a shame however that it has descended into something resembling monty python sketch with the peoples front of Judea and the judean people front

This hightlights a couple of worrying things for me:

1) that the needs and wants of beef farmers are actually quite diverse and there are a lot of different viewpoints out there - if the anti IFA sentiment that was so strong last year isn't enough to get another strong group off the ground i don't know what is

2) the IFA faces an impossible task - and that is to please all of the people all of the time. IT is literally impossible and it is making the organisation weaker for it. The problem as i see it that in the 50's-90's mixed farming dominated so if the IFA were campaigning for higher pig prices everybody was on board, grain price poor lets all support a protest as we are all effected. Nowadays mixed farming is all but finished so i have no clue how the IFA can organise itself in such a way as to support everybody. If they protest about grain price then the dairy, beef and pig men a like hold on higher grain means higher meal prices, its hard for me to support that. If there's a dairy price protest the beef lads will be thinking them bloody dairy lads are already driving the price of land rental crazy. Maybe the only common denominator is that we are all receiving crap prices no matter what we produce. I don't know, i just find it very hard for the IFA to have an all encompassing platform to work from that can please everybody. It's nearly impossible.

Funny thing is we need a real strong IFA and real strong leadership now more than ever

If the IFA could extract themselves from Larry's pocket it would be a great start