Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

declanflynn · 28-11-2020 11:53PM

wrangler wrote: »

Mc donalds buy a lot of Polish beef but don't sell it in uk and here for obvious reasons

1 in every 4 burgers sold in Europe is made with Irish beef
Average burger price in Europe is €4.60, farmer gets 21 cents, so a 10% rise in beef prices puts the burger up by 2 cents.
Can you see the possibilities

declanflynn · 28-11-2020 11:55PM

charolais0153 wrote: »

More fool the farmer who doesn't do the same

Can you enlighten us how the farmer can reduce the cost of his inputs by say 10% without reducing the volume

declanflynn · 29-11-2020 12:05AM

Jjameson wrote: »

We all tell the merchants that the price of fert meal dosing is being pulled next week and no one pay a cent more than our agreed rates ! But that’s probably be illegal...

Larry gets away with it

charolais0153 · 29-11-2020 12:10AM

declanflynn wrote: »

Can you enlighten us how the farmer can reduce the cost of his inputs by say 10% without reducing the volume

It's simple supply and demand, look at the lamb trade and believe it or not, with brexut around the corner I can't see it improving immeasurably, so if your not making money now, get out and give a chance to the rest of the people an dstop wasting everyone's time whinging on and on about things you have no control over

kk.man · 29-11-2020 12:35AM

I have to confess Beef Plan was a shot. The other night a respected beef man was in my yard and he informed me of the undesirables who were protesting. At the same token the factories were running amuck I know for a fact a certain procurement manager in the se was saying 3e by a certain date. Roll on 2020 and the line in the sand was 3.60 that's the same line when breached caused the strike.
Where's our famous producer groups now? I have mainly friesian cattle and I've been worse off on the grid since. The beef plan has ended up fighting and little of the demands have been met. The IFA shot themselves in the foot over the Smith affair thus lost credibility which is hard won but easily lost.

dzer2 · 29-11-2020 12:47AM

Amy one try buy from the factory say a couple of strip loins

Ard_MC · 29-11-2020 12:55AM

declanflynn wrote: »

yeah I have a fair idea how they work.
Polish beef will never be able to compete with Irish beef in Britain.
In the British shoppers eye our beef is a very close second to British beef and close to 20% of British shoppers would see Irish beef as equal or superior to British beef, so we shouldn't be underselling our produce.

Some lads on here are great at knocking Irish beef and knocking any ideas other posters have but never put forward an idea themselves...

Firstly I have nothing to do with beef farming, so I am not going to try to pretend that I know anything about it...

But you say close to 20% British shoppers see Irish beef as on par..think if I was going gamble on selling I'd be try to get the 80+% to buy off me.

Use to live in the uk and after British. Anyone I met they couldn't give a feck what the ate.

Again have no skin in the game. Just my opinion.

Dinzee Conlee · 29-11-2020 01:24AM

declanflynn wrote: »

Do you have any ideas beside knocking mine

I don’t Declan. I should say as well that is not so familiar with the issues either, as I’m not a beef farmer...

I don’t know what the answer to get more money in your pocket is...
But a part of me thinks that trying to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result is madness... and as far as I know a beef factory was tried before, and it failed...

I don’t know the beef market, but let’s say new factories are added - will they just be buying red to sell into the same markets, at the same price points?

It’s always good to get a niche or unique selling point for our beef, like kerry gold has for our butter...
I know they are trying to do this with the grass fed beef designation - but eventually I don’t see how this trickles down to the farmer?

In this world of increased ‘anti-factory farming‘ and visions of feedlots - do we see organic farming playing a bigger role in both production and marketing?
Or is organic just a step up from the current commodity product we produce?

Water John · 29-11-2020 02:02AM

Organic may operate at a different price point but it is already a commodity in mainstream EU markets.

charolais0153 · 29-11-2020 07:40AM

Jjameson wrote: »

Brexit. The big bad monster that the politicians are all saving us from, deadlines with enough elasticity to bounce a tw25 to Mars.
Which corner?

31st December, Brexit or the loom of it has already led to a cull in ewe numbers and has led to the best year In sheep farming In my lifetime

Another example of supply and demand, I wonder why its so hard for irish beef framers and beef plan people to understand that

Even with smaller carcasses nowadays, the kill has to be lowered to nearer 30k a week,

declanflynn · 29-11-2020 08:12AM

charolais0153 wrote: »

It's simple supply and demand, look at the lamb trade and believe it or not, with brexut around the corner I can't see it improving immeasurably, so if your not making money now, get out and give a chance to the rest of the people an dstop wasting everyone's time whinging on and on about things you have no control over

You didn't answer the question

wrangler · 29-11-2020 08:29AM

Water John wrote: »

Organic may operate at a different price point but it is already a commodity in mainstream EU markets.

It's very fickle, it's only in the last couple years that Organic sheep farmers are getting Organic price for all their lambs, It'll be interesting to see can the market absorb all the extra organic farmers that coming on stream now......... Our producer group facilitates ICM Camolins suppliers so we'd be aware of the poor maket up to maybe 2017

wrangler · 29-11-2020 08:37AM

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I don’t Declan. I should say as well that is not so familiar with the issues either, as I’m not a beef farmer...

I don’t know what the answer to get more money in your pocket is...
But a part of me thinks that trying to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result is madness... and as far as I know a beef factory was tried before, and it failed...

I don’t know the beef market, but let’s say new factories are added - will they just be buying red to sell into the same markets, at the same price points?

It’s always good to get a niche or unique selling point for our beef, like kerry gold has for our butter...
I know they are trying to do this with the grass fed beef designation - but eventually I don’t see how this trickles down to the farmer?

In this world of increased ‘anti-factory farming‘ and visions of feedlots - do we see organic farming playing a bigger role in both production and marketing?
Or is organic just a step up from the current commodity product we produce?

I led a campaign that actually worked, after that experience I wouldn't like to try to organise a farmers factory...no loyalty among farmers
Telling IFA to build a factory is a cop out by people that won't even work for IFA and definitely won't do it for themselves

bogman_bass · 29-11-2020 12:04PM

declanflynn wrote: »

The IFA in the short term should leave no stone unturned in making sure the factory in Banagher opens.

Why are Beef plan so obsessed with this total red herring?

richie123 · 29-11-2020 04:01PM

bogman_bass wrote: »

Why are Beef plan so obsessed with this total red herring?

This new factory in banagher will make absolutely no difference...most factories in country are no where near there slaughter capacity...if the demand was there you can be sure the present factories would cater to that demand.

kk.man · 29-11-2020 05:49PM

The smaller independent abattoirs are the thorn in Larries side.
Even more so in the uk.[/quote]

Certainly not a torn in his side in this country if he asked them to jump they'd ask how high.

The UK is different much more of them.

Bass Reeves · 29-11-2020 06:52PM

richie123 wrote: »

This new factory in banagher will make absolutely no difference...most factories in country are no where near there slaughter capacity...if the demand was there you can be sure the present factories would cater to that demand.

It's not about slaughtering capacity it about competition. The Irish processor's have no real interest in trying to break into the Chinese market. It was much the same when the US opened. They seem happy enough to just carry on with taking a bloated margin off the UK market.

Who ever takes them on needs deep pockets. When you look at the way the big three are swallowing up in Independent processor's and either using the capacity or reducing it operation size you see the need for any competition you can get. If Banagher gets going it could do just that.

Bass Reeves · 29-11-2020 06:54PM

Jjameson wrote: »

Certainly not a torn in his side in this country if he asked them to jump they'd ask how high.

The UK is different much more of them.

Out of spec cattle, flat pricing, no penalties for fat. A friend of mine sent a stock bull to roscrea last week a3€ a kg. A bad price but Larries local plant bid 2€!
Yes 2€ a kg and no joke for a healthy big 4 year old bull.[/quote]

There seems to be some demand for aged bulls, in places they are making more than O grade cows

kk.man · 29-11-2020 07:15PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It's not about slaughtering capacity it about competition. The Irish processor's have no real interest in trying to break into the Chinese market. It was much the same when the US opened. They seem happy enough to just carry on with taking a bloated margin off the UK market.

Who ever takes them on needs deep pockets. When you look at the way the big three are swallowing up in Independent processor's and either using the capacity or reducing it operation size you see the need for any competition you can get. If Banagher gets going it could do just that.

You would need 3 or 4 new Banaghers to have an effect and all feeding into its own waste protein facility.
However the margin in beef processing is very small but volume takes the bad look off the figures. The supermarkets squeezed the daylights out of it in last ten years and the factories bowed to the pressure but then the fifth quarter fell apart.

Mooooo · 29-11-2020 08:40PM

Unfortunately a simple post over in the beed price thread explains more of the situation than most. There are a large number of beef farmers who continue to farm regardless of whether or no the cattle they sell turn a profit. Similar to golfing or anything else it's as much a pastime to some as anything else. People are perfectly entitled to what they want but as long as there will be stock supplied for below the cost of production the factories will continue to take them, and beef price will reflect that.
Tbh the online marts have been eye openers to me, with prices paid for beef stock that 90% of dairy lads wouldn't even dream of paying for dairy cows and heifers which apparently give more of a return. Now fair enough the ones that may pop up on the Facebook feed may well be the higher end but still.
I have no solutions as at the end of the day the beef processing is privately owned in this country and tbh farmer owned versions would be 40 years too late in terms of being able to be established under whatever cooperative guise it could have been
Beef farmers will have to start looking at costs of production within the farm gate properly and assess from there. Of the job or something else on the side is propping it up then something will have to give.

richie123 · 29-11-2020 09:08PM

Jjameson wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/nine-goodman-companies-made-largely-untaxed-profit-of-170m-1.3943367?mode=amp

A decent amount of prime retail leased helps
Plus it's a very low margin high turnover buisness.
That's how he does it if your big enough you'll survive and thrive
Plus he has the added bonus that he has a good base of suppliers who are willing to supply him with beef at a loss to themselves.

Farmers are their own worst enemy.
A post over in the mart prices thread a few days ago nailed it on the head and summed up the reality of farming for a lot of farmers in this country.
Only ourselves to blame.

richie123 · 29-11-2020 09:15PM

Jjameson wrote: »

How can we be sure that 8 families haven’t just divided up a billion euro industry between them and are locking newcomers and completion out?
Isn’t it simply amaazing that everyone of the existing one has the exact same operating margin with no appetite for more output to pay a little more for a few more cattle than someone else?
If I priced a granite worktop for the kitchen there would be quotes from 3 local companies (2 buying stone from the same supplier) with as much as €600 between them for the same job and spec..
There is a huge need for players out of the cartel click to shake things up.

They don't have to divide it up because they have lads lining up to give them cattle.
It's really that simple..the less you have of anything the more valuable it is.too many cattle out there fullstop.

Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

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