Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Stateofyou · 27-11-2020 02:29PM

jrosen wrote: »

The **** will hit the fan come Jan in schools. Imagine having 2 weeks where every one of the students and their families are mixing, out for dinners, visiting family, shopping, all indoor stuff possibly back open.

We have discussed this in our house and we have decided we're keeping our kids home the first two weeks they're due back. It's going to be a shít show in January.

Stateofyou · 27-11-2020 02:31PM

JDD wrote: »

Don't forget, a third of the workforce are still working as normal - i.e. not furloughed and not working from home. So a huge chunk of parents are still working in factories, distribution centres, supermarkets, health care workers, teachers, call centre and bank branch workers etc etc,

I'm not saying that the majority of kids who test positive are catching it from their parents, but that has to count as a proportion of the infections.

Having said that, I absolutely agree that schools are not magical places where covid does not occur. I think if the HSE changed their policy to carry out these three steps:
- Test the entire class when a positive case is identified;
- Ensure that siblings are kept home the minute their brother and sister shows symptoms and/or their brother or sister is identified as a close contact, rather than waiting for the brother or sisters positive result; and
- speeding up the time between a positive test and identifying close contacts;

Then I think we would have much less infections at the moment, and shops and restaurants and pubs would be able to open fully on the run up to Christmas.

I know that's lots of disruption for a school. You could have one positive case in 1st class, and all of a sudden 25 children from that class are sent home, along with every sibling of each of those 25 students. So you could have 50 children sent home for two days because of one positive test. If you have three positive cases in the school that have come in in different classes, well that would shut down most small schools entirely. I think this is why the HSE have been quite restrictive in how they have defined close contacts within schools.

On balance though, it seems like a better idea to widen the close contract criteria if we want to keep infections in the community to a minimum, and open the rest of the economy as much as possible.

I am the first to say that a child's education is hugely important, and more important than opening restaurants and pubs, even considering the damage to the economy and to people's livelihoods. But I think some school disruption is worth it if it makes a significant difference in stopping community spread. There is a balance to be struck here, and I think we have tilted a little too far in the direction of protecting education, to the detriment of every other part of our economy.

This is one of the best posts I've seen in a while.

Boggles · 27-11-2020 02:33PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/corkbeo/status/1332289847697043457

Seventeen pupils and workers have tested positive so far and more are expected to find out if they've caught it today

HSE, school and parents confirmed that school was very strict on protocols.

The only thing remarkable about that case seems to be the parents bypassed the HSE protocol on schools and got their kids tested separately.

HSE would want to nip that carry on in the bud.

Clean up on isle 5.

meeeeh · 27-11-2020 04:12PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

That is understandable.

Maybe tell us what province so?

As already said club players aren't allowed to train so has to be county level.

Lenster. All I know is that some family member said he was a close contact to a teammate and was tested because of that. He had no symptoms. (Reporting what MIL said, I'm very much getting third hand gossip.) I don't know the age group or who the teammate was.

meeeeh · 27-11-2020 04:22PM

Boggles wrote: »

Ahhh. It's your personal experience that you chose to share, which pretty much fell completely apart when you were asked a pretty simple question.

No in dept knowledge of the GAA required to answer it.

But to recap.

It was nothing to with training or the GAA.

You kinda of know someone who tested positive but you have no idea really where that person picked it up?

Would that be accurate?

No.

Let me try: you have no kids and you don't work in schools. You are in this thread to exaggerate and discredit any kind of official data.

Would that be accurate?

Boggles · 27-11-2020 04:35PM

meeeeh wrote: »

No.

Let me try: you have no kids and you don't work in schools. You are in this thread to exaggerate and discredit any kind of official data.

Would that be accurate?

No, I don't tell tall tales, particular on the internet, I don't really see the point.

meeeeh wrote: »

Lenster. All I know is that some family member said he was a close contact to a teammate and was tested because of that. He had no symptoms. (Reporting what MIL said, I'm very much getting third hand gossip.) I don't know the age group or who the teammate was.

You don't know the age of your family member?

meeeeh · 27-11-2020 04:38PM

Boggles wrote: »

No, I don't tell tall tales, particular on the internet, I don't really see the point.

You don't know the age of your family member?

Their family member, the person who got covid you know. Are you going to claim there were no covid infections connected to sports? I really don't know what the issue is?

Boggles · 27-11-2020 04:41PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Their family member, the person who got covid you know. Are you going to claim there were no covid infections connected to sports? I really don't know what the issue is?

Oh right, so the person is not a family member and you don't actually know them?

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 27-11-2020 04:50PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Not exactly true. If the family member is being tested due to being a close contact then they can still be sent to school.

If the family member is being tested due to symptoms then they should be kept at home.

Issue we are seeing in some schools is where kids have been tested and still being sent to school while awaiting the result.

Yes on the cases I'm talking about the parents had symptoms and tested positive.

eviltwin · 27-11-2020 05:00PM

Confirmed case in my kids class. According to the email from the school all students from the class are deemed close contacts but we've been told unless we get a call from HSE the kids can go to school on Monday.

meeeeh · 27-11-2020 05:01PM

Boggles wrote: »

Oh right, so the person is not a family member and you don't actually know them?

Should I? I think I wrote 'know of' in original post so your detective work just achieved loads of spam in a thread about schools. I listed three cases 2 of which I know and one that I know of in my neighbourhood and never claimed anything else.

meeeeh · 27-11-2020 05:05PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Confirmed case in my kids class. According to the email from the school all students from the class are deemed close contacts but we've been told unless we get a call from HSE the kids can go to school on Monday.

That's a bit weird.

ShamoBuc · 27-11-2020 05:08PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Confirmed case in my kids class. According to the email from the school all students from the class are deemed close contacts but we've been told unless we get a call from HSE the kids can go to school on Monday.

Complete contradiction right there, you are right to be confused.
If everyone in the class is classified as a close contact they must stay at home and be tested, twice is the norm. Siblings of a close contact may go to school, unless they are showing symptoms, which would mean if a doctor says get them tested, the whole family isolate until the test comes back.
I wonder did you misread it?

Boggles · 27-11-2020 05:11PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Should I? I think I wrote 'know of' in original post so your detective work just achieved loads of spam in a thread about schools. I listed three cases 2 of which I know and one that I know of in my neighbourhood and never claimed anything else.

Your posts were directed at me. I am only going off what you have been telling me.

meeeeh wrote: »

In the example I gave transmission was between two county or club players. I never said any of the cases were kids because I know of none. I said that transmission among people I actually know were socialising and something to do with GAA. I worded it wrongly saying training in the first post on the subject. I apologise if I created wrong impression but my knowledge of gaa is very limited.

We'll leave it there so.

eviltwin · 27-11-2020 05:14PM

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Complete contradiction right there, you are right to be confused.
If everyone in the class is classified as a close contact they must stay at home and be tested, twice is the norm. Siblings of a close contact may go to school, unless they are showing symptoms, which would mean if a doctor says get them tested, the whole family isolate until the test comes back.
I wonder did you misread it?

I think everyone is confused. A lot of the parents have kids in other classes and so got two emails and my boy is to stay home until 10th dec it seems. I don't know if the close contact is the school's wording or HSE - I was under the impression you could have a case in a class and only those sitting beside the affected child would be a close contact. In this case my son's class and the other 5th class as well as teachers and sna's are to stay home. No word on a test at the moment so not sure if I have to organise that myself or wait until someone contacts me.

ETA: another email from school to say we'll be sent for testing...happy days

HerrKuehn · 27-11-2020 05:16PM

eviltwin wrote: »

I think everyone is confused. A lot of the parents have kids in other classes and so got two emails and my boy is to stay home until 10th dec it seems. I don't know if the close contact is the school's wording or HSE - I was under the impression you could have a case in a class and only those sitting beside the affected child would be a close contact. In this case my son's class and the other 5th class as well as teachers and sna's are to stay home. No word on a test at the moment so not sure if I have to organise that myself or wait until someone contacts me.

We had a similar situation but the email (from the principal) was perhaps better worded than yours. Most likely someone from the HSE will contact you tomorrow.

ShamoBuc · 27-11-2020 05:21PM

eviltwin wrote: »

I think everyone is confused. A lot of the parents have kids in other classes and so got two emails and my boy is to stay home until 10th dec it seems. I don't know if the close contact is the school's wording or HSE - I was under the impression you could have a case in a class and only those sitting beside the affected child would be a close contact. In this case my son's class and the other 5th class as well as teachers and sna's are to stay home. No word on a test at the moment so not sure if I have to organise that myself or wait until someone contacts me.

ETA: another email from school to say we'll be sent for testing...happy days

It's actually better now you know for sure. Clarity on what and when to do it, is always needed.
Best of luck.

meeeeh · 27-11-2020 05:34PM

Boggles wrote: »

Your posts were directed at me. I am only going off what you have been telling me.

We'll leave it there so.

And that's my original post to which you replied:

The two adult cases I know - one was picked up at a party and the other one was picked visiting someone who was waiting for a test. Both during level 5. Another one I know of was at GAA training.

SusanC10 · 27-11-2020 05:38PM

Cases in both of our Kids Schools this week.
Not in either Year Group.

And we are back singing indoors again today in the Primary School. I spoke to the Teacher this evening and expressed our concerns. He is going to come back to me.

Blondini · 27-11-2020 05:39PM

Definitely a higher prevalence of schools with multiple cases coming to light in the last 48 hours or so..

wirelessdude01 · 27-11-2020 06:07PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Confirmed case in my kids class. According to the email from the school all students from the class are deemed close contacts but we've been told unless we get a call from HSE the kids can go to school on Monday.

Well if they are all close contacts then no one should be going to school as they'll all be getting two tests.

Boggles · 27-11-2020 06:22PM

meeeeh wrote: »

And that's my original post to which you replied:

The two adult cases I know - one was picked up at a party and the other one was picked visiting someone who was waiting for a test. Both during level 5. Another one I know of was at GAA training.

I said that transmission among people I actually know were socialising and something to do with GAA

You either actually know them or you don't.

You don't know the third person who picked it up as you have since clarified and you certainly don't know how or where they picked it up as you all ready stated it wasn't at training but you seem to be suggesting now it was at training.

Like I said, we will leave there, the tale has evolved so much so quickly the interest has waned and it's just a ball of confusion now.

Boggles · 27-11-2020 07:30PM

MM praising the kids for their bravery.

Too right.

27-11-2020 10:57PM

Blondini wrote: »

Definitely a higher prevalence of schools with multiple cases coming to light in the last 48 hours or so..

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-1914-dayepidemiologyreports/COVID-19_14_day_epidemiology_report_20201126%20-%20website.pdf

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-1914-dayepidemiologyreports/COVID-19%2014%20day%20epidemiology%20report_20201119_website.pdf

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-1914-dayepidemiologyreports/COVID-19%2014%20day%20epidemiology%20report_12112020%20-%20website.pdf

Falling slowly in 5 to 18 year olds.

Boggles · 28-11-2020 11:26AM

Covid-19: Expert calls for 'honesty' about decision to keep schools open

The report notes the reproductive, or R number, in 131 countries had been found to have reduced “significantly within a shorter timeframe” when schools closed, according to a study published in renowned independent science journal The Lancet.

It also notes the assertion of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC) that the use of masks is not a sufficient requirement for not considering students or teachers in schools as being close contacts of a confirmed case.

I have no idea how much of an expert she is, but she does raise some valid points.

I read the 30+ page report NPHET sent to the government yesterday, schools were mentioned the grand total of zero.

If Carslberg did air brushing.

Stateofyou · 28-11-2020 11:26AM

meeeh, you should know better than to tell a personal story here...

Thats me · 28-11-2020 01:13PM

Boggles wrote: »

I read the 30+ page report NPHET sent to the government yesterday, schools were mentioned the grand total of zero.

It was said in very beginning that one of goals of lockdown was to allow child services to operate...

Boggles · 28-11-2020 02:18PM

Thats me wrote: »

It was said in very beginning that one of goals of lockdown was to allow child services to operate...

The 2 main goals is to keep schools open and non Covid health care functioning.

But that is beside my point.

A compressive document on recommendations and predictions from public health to governance does not mention schools once. A place where a million humans congregate indoors.

That is by every single measurement bizarre in the extreme.

frank8211 · 28-11-2020 02:20PM

Thats me wrote: »

It was said in very beginning that one of goals of lockdown was to allow child services to operate...

Covid-19: Expert calls for 'honesty' about decision to keep schools open
The author of a new report regarding the rates of transmission of Covid-19 among schoolchildren has called for “transparency of all data” from the health authorities with regard to the prevalence of the coronavirus in Irish schools.
The report, which has been seen by the Irish Examiner, was delivered to Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan earlier this week with a request that he bring it to the attention of the public health authorities.
It notes that 86% of cases, according to official statistics, among 5-14-year-olds have occurred since the beginning of September, when schools reopened for the first time since the onset of the pandemic.

Thats me · 28-11-2020 03:31PM

Boggles wrote: »

The 2 main goals is to keep schools open and non Covid health care functioning.

But that is beside my point.

A compressive document on recommendations and predictions from public health to governance does not mention schools once. A place where a million humans congregate indoors.

That is by every single measurement bizarre in the extreme.

Sorry, do you mean this document? Schools are mentioned there. Look at pages 1 or 7 for example.

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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