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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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    #1172
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    We didn't have to wear masks, the numbers declined and no shopping centres became sources of outbreaks

    This continued all through the summer despite the country (pubs aside) being reopened in that time.

    Then they brought in mandatory masks, opened schools, and cases went up.

    Coincidence? Yes. CV-19 like other viruses of its type is seasonal, but it also shows that masks have had very little effect on the spread but they DO serve as a very visible reminder of the "new normal" and to fear your neighbours

    That's the main reason for them.

    Exactly. The purpose of the mask is to dehumanise people and to keep extremely frightened people even more frightened. In the countries with 24/7 mask wearing case numbers (which I consider to be pointless, but which most people obsess over) are through the roof.


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    #1173
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    But it's not like it was in March. Have a look around

    And again I will say this was new and yes back in March we didnt have to wear masks

    Again I'll say I dont agree with a lot of what's happening but come on we cannot knock them for things done at the beginning because we knew very little about this virus

    We can however blame them for what the are now doing and will continue to do for a substantial amount of time

    Tony H has already said the vaccine will only “compliment” current measures


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    #1174
    Rrrrrr2
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Rrrrrr2


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    Yeah repeating 'im deeply concerned' and ' the next two weeks are crucial' ad nauseum is no lean feat.

    Holohan has achieved nothing any other pen pushing autocrat wouldn’t have (ie not very much). (Some) People speak in reverence like he banished Covid or something. He contributed to the worst economic damage in Europe and fairly middling Covid stats that are comparable to anywhere else.


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    #1175
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    We can however blame them for what the are now doing and will continue to do for a substantial amount of time

    Tony H has already said the vaccine will only “compliment” current measures

    Yes. Translation: permanent mask-wearing.


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    #1176
    SAMTALK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    We can however blame them for what the are now doing and will continue to do for a substantial amount of time

    Tony H has already said the vaccine will only “compliment” current measures

    Absoutely, I was talking about back at the start when no one what's was going to happen


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    #1177
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    The restrictions worked because people thought covid killed 3-4% of people who caught it and hospitalized a fifth. Now we know that's not the case so why are we still taking the sledgehammer approach? Also considering the cost of restrictions in terms of jobs and national debt they'd want to bloody work to be blunt.

    as for your first point
    well in italy and some other nations in europe they are back at those 3-4 percent now.
    and their Icu beds occupation at the same level as they were in march https://www.statista.com/statistics/1119163/covid-19-patients-in-icu-since-the-outbreak-italy/

    it does show that not being very quick in decision making you have risks.
    i agree we can debate about your 2nd point but the first point is the virus is still as much or as little dangerous than it was in the first wave
    a couple of days ago italy recorded the 2nd highest mortality number in a day since the pandemic outbreak and they had brought down their numbers even lower than ireland in the summer.


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    #1178
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Can you actually make an argument rather than use emojis like a 12 year old please?


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    #1179
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,262 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    Can you point out where I projected my hysteria onto others ?

    Sure, no problem - surprised you can't remember.

    SAMTALK wrote: »
    But come on werent we all terrified back in March


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    #1180
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    Absoutely, I was talking about back at the start when no one what's was going to happen

    Some questioned from the very beginning.

    They were immediately silenced, like the doctor Harris appointed to the medical council and forced to resign.

    Also the mechanics of Lombardy were vastly incomparable to any region in Ireland.
    10m citizens in an area the size of Munster, also one of the oldest populations in the world.

    A highly transmissible virus that effects the elderly will put pressure on hospitals in a region like that.

    Although the hospitals in that region come under pressure every flu season


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    #1181
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    peter kern wrote: »
    as for your first point
    well in italy and some other nations in europe they are back at those 3-4 percent now.
    and their Icu beds occupation at the same level as they were in march https://www.statista.com/statistics/1119163/covid-19-patients-in-icu-since-the-outbreak-italy/

    it does show that not being very quick in decision making you have risks.
    i agree we can debate about your 2nd point but the first point is the virus is still as much or as little dangerous than it was in the first wave
    a couple of days ago italy recorded the 2nd highest mortality number in a day since the pandemic outbreak and they had brought down their numbers even lower than ireland in the summer.

    But the problem with these death numbers is the classifying of deaths that are clearly not COVID deaths as COVID deaths. A man fell from a ladder in Croatia recently and COVID was put down as the cause of death. It's impossible to know how many people have died from COVID-19. And that's without getting it 'died of' vs 'died with'.


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    #1182
    fin12
    Registered Users Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    Rrrrrr2 wrote: »
    Holohan has achieved nothing any other pen pushing autocrat wouldn’t have (ie not very much). (Some) People speak in reverence like he banished Covid or something. He contributed to the worst economic damage in Europe and fairly middling Covid stats that are comparable to anywhere else.

    Yes and another woman from the cervical cancer scandal died a few days ago. How he is still in a job is beyond me. Such an insult to all the families and victims. No justice.


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    #1183
    SAMTALK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Sure, no problem - surprised you can't remember.

    How is that projecting fear into others ?

    You want to me to say well done for seeing what was coming ?

    So when this started back in March we werent to listen to NPHET or the government or WHO ?


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    #1184
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    peter kern wrote: »
    as for your first point
    well in italy and some other nations in europe they are back at those 3-4 percent now.
    and their Icu beds occupation at the same level as they were in march https://www.statista.com/statistics/1119163/covid-19-patients-in-icu-since-the-outbreak-italy/

    it does show that not being very quick in decision making you have risks.
    i agree we can debate about your 2nd point but the first point is the virus is still as much or as little dangerous than it was in the first wave
    a couple of days ago italy recorded the 2nd highest mortality number in a day since the pandemic outbreak and they had brought down their numbers even lower than ireland in the summer.

    Covid doesn't kill that many people. The WHO reckon 700 million people had covid a couple of months ago. Does that mean theres 20 million people dead no one knows about? Confirmed cases doesn't equal all cases. So many cases have light to no symptoms you'll never catch them all unless you tested everyone constantly


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    #1185
    SAMTALK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    Can you actually make an argument rather than use emojis like a 12 year old please?

    Ok sorry for offending you

    I think maybe he did a little more than that. Better ?


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    #1186
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    Ok sorry for offending you

    I think maybe he did a little more than that. Better ?

    Can you be more specific? I can't think of a single positive thing Anthony has done. But it'd take me a year to describe the damage he's done.


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    #1187
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,262 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    How is that projecting fear into others ?

    You want to me to say well done for seeing what was coming ?

    So when this started back in March we werent to listen to NPHET or the government or WHO ?

    Listen to the WHO?

    Good idea
    Governments should not impose national lockdowns if the number of COVID-19 cases continues to rise.

    That's according to Dr David Nabarro, the World Health Organization's special envoy on COVID-19 and professor of Global Health at Imperial College London


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    #1188
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,598 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Why do you link an article talking about March - June 2020? We are in November. Now unless you assume that lockdown in March is the same as lockdown in November, except for
    - no mortgage breaks
    - permanent unemployment has increased
    - Part time staff are no longer on 350 euros PUP but rather on 200 euros
    - in general, 20% + of population has endured multiple months of reduced income

    Combination of above = increase in crime. But then you were suggesting to me in other thread that Irish corporation tax receipts in August were from 2020 period.... :rolleyes: funny enough when CT receipts for 2020 started to come in October onward they were nearly 1bn less than for same period 2019.

    Where's the evidence that crime has increased?

    Irish corporation tax receipts in August were mainly from 2020 period.


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    #1189
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    Look I'm as tired and fed up as anyone and want things to go back to normal as soon as possible, but people saying government and NPHET are wrong and trying to close down pubs, get people to tow the line, it's all a hoax etc is wearing

    Every country is doing what needs to be done for themselves and everyone of them are doing it based on their own country and not on what others are doing.

    Ok I question a lot of things they are throwing out but come on do people seriously think they are not trying to do whats best for the country

    Their actions over the past number of months have most definitely caused me to question the government's motives.


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    #1190
    SAMTALK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Listen to the WHO?

    Good idea

    So us people here on boards are better qualified ?


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    #1191
    SAMTALK
    Registered Users Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Their actions over the past number of months have most definitely caused me to question the government's motives.

    I'm not being funny here, but what do you think they're motives are


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    #1192
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    But it's not like it was in March. Have a look around

    And again I will say this was new and yes back in March we didnt have to wear masks

    Again I'll say I dont agree with a lot of what's happening but come on we cannot knock them for things done at the beginning because we knew very little about this virus

    That's not really true. Back in early March an immunologist told me, "This virus will spread through the population like a flu. It will mostly affect the old and the vulnerable and all we can do is slow it down until we get some form of herd immunity, ideally through a vaccine." That was actually quite a bit to know about Covid and we don't really know much more today.


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    #1193
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    Fodla wrote: »
    Absolutely. I have been saying for months now that this is a social media pandemic. No social media, or any media, and people wouldn't have noticed there was a pandemic going on.

    It's backed by data. Covid is part of a list of other potential issues those with underlying illnesses have but is certainly not something the vast, vast majority would even know they had unless they were told.

    There are people on Facebook that buy into 5G and anti-vaccine conspiracy theories, but there are people on twitter that (in my informed observation as I have experience with but no longer use Twitter nor Facebook) also operate in bubbles and end up being unable to see the wood from the trees on a lot of issues.

    Covid is the perfect example of where journalists, medics and general social media addicts have been licking the holes off each other on covid to the point where they think that healthy scepticism about the seriousiousness of covid or pointing out hypocrisies in the restrictions amounts to you being part of the Facebook conspiracy nuts. For them, if you are not with them you are against them. It is tragic as these people can be apparent influential voices in the public domain (i.e. politicians, journalists) and yet lack the ability to deal with any challenge to their world views.


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    #1194
    Smoothrider
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭Smoothrider


    I was told a similar thing by a consultant back in March, sars 2 simply accelerates the deaths of those who would otherwise be dying in a few weeks / months time. It is not the proximate cause of death in almost all cases. This is actually quite demonstrable because we are not seeing any excess death, and there's been none at all since March / April. There has been in fact a deficit in deaths since April, month on month, which continues up to the present. It will probably quite likely that for the year as a whole there will be no excess deaths at all which is something that is literally impossible for a 'killer virus'.


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    #1195
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Fodla wrote: »
    But the problem with these death numbers is the classifying of deaths that are clearly not COVID deaths as COVID deaths. A man fell from a ladder in Croatia recently and COVID was put down as the cause of death. It's impossible to know how many people have died from COVID-19. And that's without getting it 'died of' vs 'died with'.

    As has been long pointed out the best means of gauging the effects of Covid is to look at all-cause mortality and compare it to previous years.
    Doing this makes it VERY clear what the number of deaths is that COULD be attributed to Covid ...... within a small percentage variation.
    OK, because 'flu' deaths will be reduced in the Winter, the Covid deaths will rise, but this cannot be determined.
    The main point being the effects outside the normal is due to Covid ....... and anyone who has studied those figures have determined minimal extra deaths in the period.

    During April and into May, a lockdown was a reasonable response.
    The country should have been fully open during the Summer .... Covid is not active during the Summer.
    Coming into Winter strong advise to the public about hygiene and social distance measures and mask wearing if they have symptoms should have been sufficient.

    All of this information was available in their own figures of hospitalisations, deaths etc.etc.

    All they had to do was to read it ...... understand it ...... and act accordingly.
    They failed on one of those three - I still wonder which - and have destroyed the economy due to their actions.

    So, yes, when we knew little of this virus, a serious reaction was warranted (April).
    The gov. actions since then have been catestrophic for the country and near criminal.

    For the record here ....... yes in April I was very concerned and locked myself up and followed the strictist restriction measues.

    By June I had sufficient information to know that this virus is seasonal, and its 'deadly' effects much promoted here and elsewhere, was nonsense.
    If I could have this info, there is no excuse for our government not to have it much earlier.

    Covid has caused very little damage over and above what is normally experienced.

    Our governments actions have destroyed the economy and caused an unknown amount of fear, hysteria, social isolation and all its consequences.

    As for NPHET ......
    Who appointed them?
    Who chose to accept their advise to the exclusion of all other advise?
    Who implemented their advise?


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    #1196
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,262 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    So us people here on boards are better qualified ?

    Given the old adage about arguing - I think it's time to finish this discussion.


    You've suggested that we were all terrified in March - we weren't.

    You suggested that we follow WHO advice - we didn't.

    You think Tony's doing a great job - come back to us in a couple of years when you're paying the bill for this nonsense.


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    #1197
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    I'm not being funny here, but what do you think they're motives are

    Control and deliberately destroying the economy and society so that they can be "built back better" as part of the upcoming Great Reset. Not a conspiracy theory. It can be read about on the World Economic Forum website. Many leaders around the word are saying "build back better". That can't be a coincidence.


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    #1198
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    I'm not being funny here, but what do you think they're motives are

    My biggest problem in all of this is that I cannot fathom what it might be.
    That alone is cause of concern.

    I guess it might well be down to complete and utter ignorance and stupidity?
    ...... or something else .....


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    #1199
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    My biggest problem in all of this is that I cannot fathem what it might be.
    That alone is cause of concern.

    I guess it might well be down to complete and utter ignorance and stupidity?
    ...... or something else .....

    See my post above for what I believe to be the only plausible explanation.


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    #1200
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    So us people here on boards are better qualified ?

    Going by your logic, someone can never criticize a film or a footballer or a song etc because you can just play the ' I'd like to see you do better' argument


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    #1201
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    I'm not being funny here, but what do you think they're motives are

    For FF and FG, I definitely think they are trying to go for the “we saved thousands of lives” and put people before the economy. And also just following other countries to an extent.

    NPHET I believe have more sinister agendas. They’d love to get pubs closed permanently.

    I think it’s a bit naive to suggest neither have agendas outside the pandemic.


This discussion has been closed.
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