US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

TomOnBoard · 22-11-2020 11:09AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I’m listening to the Americast podcast from bbc sounds and they are playing parts of the Giuliani press conference and him talking about the movie my cousin vinny(which I hadn’t heard).How dare he sully the name of Mona Lisa Vito and vinny Gambini.

Not to mention likening the poll watchers who claimed to having to use binoculars to the elderly witness in Vinny's case! Rudey suggested that she couldn't see the two fingers Vinny held up in Court because he was too far away. However, Vinny proved to the Court that, in fact, she was legally ****ing blind! Jeez, when your lawyer can't even draw on a movie for an analogy, without totally twisting it, I reckon you'd better get yourself a new lawyer!!!

spacecoyote · 22-11-2020 11:34AM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I've seldom seen a more scathing decision by a judge. Clearly all the more scathing as Rudey/Trump must now decide if this is the case they will appeal to the Supreme Court. They are truly running out of rope, and this case will embarrass the SCOTUS if they choose to take it on.

They need a case to go to SCOTUS in order for the final piece of their increasingly ludicrous Plan B to proceed further.

And their latest line is....we're really happy that the judge dismissed the case so quickly, and we hope more judges will throw out our cases just as quickly, so we can get this moved up to the supreme court as soon as possible.

You would hope that the SC dismiss this farce just as scathingly

22-11-2020 11:40AM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I've seldom seen a more scathing decision by a judge. Clearly all the more scathing as Rudey/Trump must now decide if this is the case they will appeal to the Supreme Court. They are truly running out of rope, and this case will embarrass the SCOTUS if they choose to take it on.

They need a case to go to SCOTUS in order for the final piece of their increasingly ludicrous Plan B to proceed further.

It was basically legalese for sling your hook your full of sh1t.

It'll be interesting to see if/when they go to the supreme court how it handles the claims trump and co.

StringerBell · 22-11-2020 11:47AM

spacecoyote wrote: »

And their latest line is....we're really happy that the judge dismissed the case so quickly, and we hope more judges will throw out our cases just as quickly, so we can get this moved up to the supreme court as soon as possible.

You would hope that the SC dismiss this farce just as scathingly

It will be interesting to see if they ever actually find an appeal with some standing that could even be taken up by the SC.

TomOnBoard · 22-11-2020 11:51AM

spacecoyote wrote: »

And their latest line is....we're really happy that the judge dismissed the case so quickly, and we hope more judges will throw out our cases just as quickly, so we can get this moved up to the supreme court as soon as possible.

You would hope that the SC dismiss this farce just as scathingly

Assuming it actually gets to them, the SCOTUS needs 4 Justices to grant a "writ of certiorari" before even considering it. That's the 1st hurdle Trump/Rudey need to cross. If it does grant certiorari, that would mean they'd have to opine- then the **** would truly hit the fan in 'Murica.. ANYONE trying to make a silk purse out of this sow's ear will be pilloried for centuries to come!

Inquitus · 22-11-2020 02:17PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Assuming it actually gets to them, the SCOTUS needs 4 Justices to grant a "writ of certiorari" before even considering it. That's the 1st hurdle Trump/Rudey need to cross. If it does grant certiorari, that would mean they'd have to opine- then the **** would truly hit the fan in 'Murica.. ANYONE trying to make a silk purse out of this sow's ear will be pilloried for centuries to come!

If your case is thrown out as meritless, I am surprised you are able to then appeal that to a higher court? It does seem like a path is there for them to at least get the SCOTUS to consider whether to take their case. They are unlikely to get a better result mind.

U.S. District Court Judge Matthew Brann may be an Obama appointee, but he is a republican through and through, and he gave it every short shrift, mainly because the affidavit evidence is so weak, jaysus a form behind a capatcha that anyone could post evidence to!

This article is good, it contains the current status of all Trump's legal cases in the window at the bottom, 7 pages of cases!

Windmill100000 · 22-11-2020 02:35PM

StringerBell wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if they ever actually find an appeal with some standing that could even be taken up by the SC.

How does it work? Does he automatically get to the supreme court? What do these dismisses mean?

1123heavy · 22-11-2020 02:44PM

The last option is to take everything to the Supreme Court and they can overrule the state courts ruling. It’s necessary to go to the local then state courts first, then finally the Supreme Court. A lot of people are putting their reputation on the line, they are that confident they have evidence of significant election fraud, the Dominion Software seems to be a big part of it. Either what they have is a hoax or there is greater corruption in our govt then ever imagined and if that was exposed now Donald Trump would go down as one of the greatest presidents in history. PA is definitely a blow but it’s not over yet, if they have something real they can take it before the Supreme Court and they can overrule every state courts ruling so far and demand a thorough investigation of the votes and corruption allegations. If they have real evidence then partisanship should not be an issue since there are 5 conservatives, 3 liberals and 1 moderate.

The gap Biden was behind, the way voting stopped in 6 battleground states simultaneously, the number of votes almost all coming in for Biden and finally, the margin Biden won by (10,000’s of votes in multiple states) all seems a bit fishy to me. In MI, the county electorates would not certify because there were way more votes than registered voters in Wayne County where Detroit is. Also, there has never been an election with so many independent claims of fraud, everyone has a sworn testimony meaning if it turns out later they were wrong and it was proven in a court of law they would go to jail. Finally, so many Democrats in the past we’re complaining about Dominion Software being unreliable and hack able, none of them are complaining now of course.

It is not over and the truth will prevail.

prawnsambo · 22-11-2020 03:12PM

1123heavy wrote: »

The last option is to take everything to the Supreme Court and they can overrule the state courts ruling. It’s necessary to go to the local then state courts first, then finally the Supreme Court. A lot of people are putting their reputation on the line, they are that confident they have evidence of significant election fraud, the Dominion Software seems to be a big part of it. Either what they have is a hoax or there is greater corruption in our govt then ever imagined and if that was exposed now Donald Trump would go down as one of the greatest presidents in history. PA is definitely a blow but it’s not over yet, if they have something real they can take it before the Supreme Court and they can overrule every state courts ruling so far and demand a thorough investigation of the votes and corruption allegations. If they have real evidence then partisanship should not be an issue since there are 5 conservatives, 3 liberals and 1 moderate.

The gap Biden was behind, the way voting stopped in 6 battleground states simultaneously, the number of votes almost all coming in for Biden and finally, the margin Biden won by (10,000’s of votes in multiple states) all seems a bit fishy to me. In MI, the county electorates would not certify because there were way more votes than registered voters in Wayne County where Detroit is. Also, there has never been an election with so many independent claims of fraud, everyone has a sworn testimony meaning if it turns out later they were wrong and it was proven in a court of law they would go to jail. Finally, so many Democrats in the past we’re complaining about Dominion Software being unreliable and hack able, none of them are complaining now of course.

It is not over and the truth will prevail.

All the talking points. Imagine you could have the power to alter millions of votes through [checks post] control of voting software and somehow forgot to alter the vital senate seats that you need to take full control of government. And you flubb it and nearly lose the House too. How sick they must be now.

Seriously. They can't prove this stuff at state level, haven't brought a shred of evidence at state court, get spanked consistently all over the country in court and hold all this 'evidence' back for a Hail Mary run at the SC which they are unlikely to get because they've produced no real evidence yet. But HUGE fraud.

Silly stuff.

Akrasia · 22-11-2020 03:14PM

1123heavy wrote: »

The last option is to take everything to the Supreme Court and they can overrule the state courts ruling. It’s necessary to go to the local then state courts first, then finally the Supreme Court. A lot of people are putting their reputation on the line, they are that confident they have evidence of significant election fraud, the Dominion Software seems to be a big part of it. Either what they have is a hoax or there is greater corruption in our govt then ever imagined and if that was exposed now Donald Trump would go down as one of the greatest presidents in history. PA is definitely a blow but it’s not over yet, if they have something real they can take it before the Supreme Court and they can overrule every state courts ruling so far and demand a thorough investigation of the votes and corruption allegations. If they have real evidence then partisanship should not be an issue since there are 5 conservatives, 3 liberals and 1 moderate.

The gap Biden was behind, the way voting stopped in 6 battleground states simultaneously, the number of votes almost all coming in for Biden and finally, the margin Biden won by (10,000’s of votes in multiple states) all seems a bit fishy to me. In MI, the county electorates would not certify because there were way more votes than registered voters in Wayne County where Detroit is. Also, there has never been an election with so many independent claims of fraud, everyone has a sworn testimony meaning if it turns out later they were wrong and it was proven in a court of law they would go to jail. Finally, so many Democrats in the past we’re complaining about Dominion Software being unreliable and hack able, none of them are complaining now of course.

It is not over and the truth will prevail.

The truth will prevail when the deliberately biased Supreme Court packed with GOP loyalists overturns the election result in favor of their party?

I don’t get your mindset. Everyone is in on the conspiracy except for political judicial appointments chosen specifically to be as politically motivated as possible.

Windmill100000 · 22-11-2020 03:16PM

*all seems a bit fishy to me*

Really? I'm surprised he got as many votes as he did. Looking forward to when he finally leaves the WH.

prawnsambo · 22-11-2020 03:25PM

Maricopa County AZ board of supervisors (4 GOP and 1 Dem) certifying their results.

Roanmore · 22-11-2020 03:31PM

1123heavy wrote: »

The last option is to take everything to the Supreme Court and they can overrule the state courts ruling. It’s necessary to go to the local then state courts first, then finally the Supreme Court. A lot of people are putting their reputation on the line, they are that confident they have evidence of significant election fraud, the Dominion Software seems to be a big part of it. Either what they have is a hoax or there is greater corruption in our govt then ever imagined and if that was exposed now Donald Trump would go down as one of the greatest presidents in history. PA is definitely a blow but it’s not over yet, if they have something real they can take it before the Supreme Court and they can overrule every state courts ruling so far and demand a thorough investigation of the votes and corruption allegations. If they have real evidence then partisanship should not be an issue since there are 5 conservatives, 3 liberals and 1 moderate.

The gap Biden was behind, the way voting stopped in 6 battleground states simultaneously, the number of votes almost all coming in for Biden and finally, the margin Biden won by (10,000’s of votes in multiple states) all seems a bit fishy to me. In MI, the county electorates would not certify because there were way more votes than registered voters in Wayne County where Detroit is. Also, there has never been an election with so many independent claims of fraud, everyone has a sworn testimony meaning if it turns out later they were wrong and it was proven in a court of law they would go to jail. Finally, so many Democrats in the past we’re complaining about Dominion Software being unreliable and hack able, none of them are complaining now of course.

It is not over and the truth will prevail.

How come this Dominion software was on no radar before the election? If Nancy Pelosi has a share in it (don't believe it) why didn't Republicans highlight, everybody seems to know about it 2 days later?

Also, didn't Biden initially lead briefly in Florida because they counted the mail in ballots first and then Trump pulled ahead.

The States that banned the counting of mail in ballots first did so to engineer this exact situation.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-11-2020 04:22PM

1123heavy wrote: »

The last option is to take everything to the Supreme Court and they can overrule the state courts ruling.

But wouldn't that cost more money than they are making with fundraising ?

BluePlanet · 22-11-2020 04:41PM

1123heavy wrote: »

The last option is to take everything to the Supreme Court and they can overrule the state courts ruling. It’s necessary to go to the local then state courts first, then finally the Supreme Court. A lot of people are putting their reputation on the line, they are that confident they have evidence of significant election fraud, the Dominion Software seems to be a big part of it. Either what they have is a hoax or there is greater corruption in our govt then ever imagined and if that was exposed now Donald Trump would go down as one of the greatest presidents in history. PA is definitely a blow but it’s not over yet, if they have something real they can take it before the Supreme Court and they can overrule every state courts ruling so far and demand a thorough investigation of the votes and corruption allegations. If they have real evidence then partisanship should not be an issue since there are 5 conservatives, 3 liberals and 1 moderate.

The gap Biden was behind, the way voting stopped in 6 battleground states simultaneously, the number of votes almost all coming in for Biden and finally, the margin Biden won by (10,000’s of votes in multiple states) all seems a bit fishy to me. In MI, the county electorates would not certify because there were way more votes than registered voters in Wayne County where Detroit is. Also, there has never been an election with so many independent claims of fraud, everyone has a sworn testimony meaning if it turns out later they were wrong and it was proven in a court of law they would go to jail. Finally, so many Democrats in the past we’re complaining about Dominion Software being unreliable and hack able, none of them are complaining now of course.

It is not over and the truth will prevail.

If there was this great conspiracy, how come Trump and all those GOP led states didn't secure the voting process BEFORE the election?

prawnsambo · 22-11-2020 04:42PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But wouldn't that cost more money than they are making with fundraising ?

If PA certifies tomorrow as is mooted, then that particular route to the SC is dead. The original case in PA asked for certification to be prevented as a relief. That relief dies with certification. As do all cases deriving from it.

Christy42 · 22-11-2020 04:58PM

Waiting to only show evidence to the supreme Court makes no sense. Why wouldn't you try and win in the lower courts?

They have no evidence is the only serious conclusion.

Inquitus · 22-11-2020 05:03PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Waiting to only show evidence to the supreme Court makes no sense. Why wouldn't you try and win in the lower courts?

They have no evidence is the only serious conclusion.

I am not an expert in US law, far from it, but surely if cases are dismissed in lower courts that doesn't provide a route to the SCOTUS for further judgements, they have not lost these cases after all, the cases have been dismissed for being frivolous and lacking in any sort of evidence?

pixelburp · 22-11-2020 05:05PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Waiting to only show evidence to the supreme Court makes no sense. Why wouldn't you try and win in the lower courts?

They have no evidence is the only serious conclusion.

Because in Trump's mind, loyalty is bought and absolute. He likely sees his two appointments as basically subservient to his whims and will tie behind him. As such, pesky things like actual evidence won't matter in the face of a presumed quid pro quo.

Notmything · 22-11-2020 05:12PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Waiting to only show evidence to the supreme Court makes no sense. Why wouldn't you try and win in the lower courts?

They have no evidence is the only serious conclusion.

According to does who know about this they can't. They can appeal a decision to the SC and the court can send it back to a lower court to be re-heard if an error was made. Most commentary seems to suggest that they can't introduce new evidence or make a new argument.

Saying that I'm taking this from following legal twitterers and I may have not fully understood what they were saying #disclaimer

Inquitus · 22-11-2020 05:14PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Because in Trump's mind, loyalty is bought and absolute. He likely sees his two appointments as basically subservient to his whims and will tie behind him. As such, pesky things like actual evidence won't matter in the face of a presumed quid pro quo.

Supreme Court Justices can be impeached, the process is very similar to the Presidential Process, impeachment in the house and then a conviction in the Senate. Even though Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Coney Barrett were appointed by the Trump administration I doubt they are willing to play fast and loose with the law, it's one thing to rule in a conservative fashion on contentious issues, quite another to try and overturn a valid election based on little to no evidence needing to flip 3 or more state to actually change the outcome.

prawnsambo · 22-11-2020 05:25PM

Notmything wrote: »

According to does who know about this they can't. They can appeal a decision to the SC and the court can send it back to a lower court to be re-heard if an error was made. Most commentary seems to suggest that they can't introduce new evidence or make a new argument.

Saying that I'm taking this from following legal twitterers and I may have not fully understood what they were saying #disclaimer

I would imagine that it's something similar to our own SC. You go there on a matter of law interpretation and for constitutional matters. So you don't just turn up with a new case, you're primarily appealing the decision of a lower court where you feel an error in law has been made. So the facts of the case aren't really in play, just the basis of the decision against you. So all this talk about Dominion voting software is pure fluff. None of it has been brought up in court to date and therefore not going to feature in any SC hearing if they manage to get there.

Notmything · 22-11-2020 05:36PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

I would imagine that it's something similar to our own SC. You go there on a matter of law interpretation and for constitutional matters. So you don't just turn up with a new case, you're primarily appealing the decision of a lower court where you feel an error in law has been made. So the facts of the case aren't really in play, just the basis of the decision against you. So all this talk about Dominion voting software is pure fluff. None of it has been brought up in court to date and therefore not going to feature in any SC hearing if they manage to get there.

Try tell that to the Trumpers who have visions of Rudi turning up, pulling out a box full of proof of fraud n misdeeds, and the SC immediately making Donnie president for life

prawnsambo · 22-11-2020 07:03PM

Notmything wrote: »

Try tell that to the Trumpers who have visions of Rudi turning up, pulling out a box full of proof of fraud n misdeeds, and the SC immediately making Donnie president for life

And that's the point. All this guff is about reaching into their pockets and enriching Trump. I note that his PAC's share of the so-called legal fund has gone from 60% to 75% in the last few days. This is theft in broad daylight and not theft of the election, theft from the faithful deluded. And they'll continue to reach into their pockets and pay up.

All the Jenna Ellis's and Rudy Giuliani's are signed up for the grift and enriching themselves in the process. They don't give a fiddler's for the 'faithful'.

22-11-2020 07:40PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

And that's the point. All this guff is about reaching into their pockets and enriching Trump. I note that his PAC's share of the so-called legal fund has gone from 60% to 75% in the last few days. This is theft in broad daylight and not theft of the election, theft from the faithful deluded. And they'll continue to reach into their pockets and pay up.

All the Jenna Ellis's and Rudy Giuliani's are signed up for the grift and enriching themselves in the process. They don't give a fiddler's for the 'faithful'.

Is it theft when they can read the terms and conditions, or just stupidity on behalf of the donors?
Now I am not saying that the trump train aren't committing dodgy practices. I've friends working over there in the cyber security field and the amount of spam mail they are seeing in their gateways from the trump campaign would have the domain blacklisted under normal circumstances.

gimli2112 · 22-11-2020 07:56PM

i think the most important thing a president can do is appoint SC justices, unfortunately trump got two, unfortunately for him they're serious people. I wouldn't be surprised that if it gets to the SC, which I don't think it will, the response will be scathing.

prawnsambo · 22-11-2020 07:57PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Is it theft when they can read the terms and conditions, or just stupidity on behalf of the donors?
Now I am not saying that the trump train aren't committing dodgy practices. I've friends working over there in the cyber security field and the amount of spam mail they are seeing in their gateways from the trump campaign would have the domain blacklisted under normal circumstances.

It's not technically theft because the fine print sets out the breakdown. But these guys won't read the fine print and will just read the spam mail that will scream all the conspiracy crap and say they need the money to fight it. By any moral standard it's theft. They are setting out with the intent to just fill their pockets and the poor saps are falling for it.

However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they start dipping into the funds intended for 'legal' cases and get caught for it.

22-11-2020 08:17PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's not technically theft because the fine print sets out the breakdown. But these guys won't read the fine print and will just read the spam mail that will scream all the conspiracy crap and say they need the money to fight it. By any moral standard it's theft. They are setting out with the intent to just fill their pockets and the poor saps are falling for it.

However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they start dipping into the funds intended for 'legal' cases and get caught for it.

Well if you're expecting morals with trump your going to be waiting, it's not like the family don't have form in relation to dodgy dealings with donations.
But in terms of being legally wrong to take money from these fools (being polite here) when they give it freely, it's not.
If that was the case the bookies would be considered as having stolen from the few who bet half their dole money etc on trump winning if their posts are to be believed. In this case the bookies simply know that there is one born every minute, and it's legal.

As for the spam mail, it isn't getting through, and it's considered spam because the organisations that my friends work for have strict policies on work email addresses not being used to register with unapproved third party sites, and they activity monitor usage along with internet access.

TomOnBoard · 22-11-2020 08:33PM

gimli2112 wrote: »

i think the most important thing a president can do is appoint SC justices, unfortunately trump got two, unfortunately for him they're serious people. I wouldn't be surprised that if it gets to the SC, which I don't think it will, the response will be scathing.

Trump got 3 SCOTUS Justices.

Gunmonkey · 22-11-2020 11:11PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

I would imagine that it's something similar to our own SC. You go there on a matter of law interpretation and for constitutional matters. So you don't just turn up with a new case, you're primarily appealing the decision of a lower court where you feel an error in law has been made. So the facts of the case aren't really in play, just the basis of the decision against you. So all this talk about Dominion voting software is pure fluff. None of it has been brought up in court to date and therefore not going to feature in any SC hearing if they manage to get there.

That would be my take. Also, I think a judge could potentially bump it up if there was sufficient grounds for the ruling to generate a landmark precedent and they felt it needed the SCOTUS to rule. But since no case has ever made it past the most basic presentation of evidence or witness testimonies, no hope for it happening.

prawnsambo wrote: »

And that's the point. All this guff is about reaching into their pockets and enriching Trump. I note that his PAC's share of the so-called legal fund has gone from 60% to 75% in the last few days. This is theft in broad daylight and not theft of the election, theft from the faithful deluded. And they'll continue to reach into their pockets and pay up.

Seriously? Ugh...why am I even surprised by this at this point :rolleyes:

US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

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