Cheating

Potatoeman · 18-07-2019 12:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Had an argument with the gf recently. She had no problem with it. I did. She also had no problem cheating on an ex because "he was a prick". I wish I hadn't remember all this just now. Slightly boils my blood still.

This is a major red flag. This is exactly what people mean when they say they ignored the warning signs.

Anna2834 · 19-07-2019 12:38pm

This is a conversation I had with a friend recently on cheating...her exact words.

Have I ever cheated? Yes, some might say; however I wouldn't call what happened cheating as I had checked out of that relationship long before the so called "cheating" happened on my side (OK maybe it was cheating as we were still in a relationship at the time). Safe to say that shortly after it happened we did break up (he figured it out why in the end - didn't have to confirm or deny it - it was just so clear with my subtle hinting). I don't feel bad about it, he did it first and broke my heart. Does that mean I wanted to even out the score - not at all....or maybe....I was trying to escape I guess.

It was the best thing we ever did (break up). Worst 3 years of my life being with him (well the last 2 were)...mentally abusive, extremely patronizing the list goes on, she says.

Turns out he cheated on her a good few months before on a stag...came home with a few hickeys on his neck, poor woman only noticed it after she picked him up from the airport and took him back to his home town (near Mullingar). Did it happen before - she is certain it happened on many occasions.

Did she try to break it off then, yes she did, unfortunately she stayed. However shortly after she met a guy in work and they had a fling. Still remembers that time with fondness she says...the time she spent with the other guy of course, not her then partner.

Does she regret it, not a bit! She advised she needed it to happen this way for her to finally manage to break away and realize there are better "opportunities" out there.

Funny enough she does condone cheating...guess we are complex creatures!

leggo · 19-07-2019 1:01pm

On the ‘better opportunities’ train of thought...

I knew a girl who quite openly said to me before she’d cheat on her boyfriend (who seemed like a perfectly decent bloke who treated her well) if a better opportunity came up. Kind of the same attitude to “It’s better to get a job from a job.”

More than anything I felt bad for both him and her. He probably thought he was with someone totally devoted to him and she’s quite frank about this. She’s got zero sense of loyalty and wouldn’t think twice about breaking someone she claims to care about, so in turn probably can’t actually experience real love or happiness. There’s just no winners in it.

Anna2834 · 19-07-2019 2:19pm

To answer the OP question - I think we are all capable of cheating....and a good majority of us have and will cheat at some stage in our lives...

Have I been propositioned...hell plenty of times especially in the last 4 years (yes he is married)....have I done anything about it.....nope! Would I agree to it if I were single? I can say, the honest answer here is YES, a big fat YES, but I am not single. I find it quite sad that a certain someone cant get/won't get the hint....and still lives in hope.

Leggo - I think my friend was coming from a different prospective when she said opportunities or so I hope....I know it was a very bad relationship and it ended really badly...it resulted in a baby...and a lot of other terrible things....

kunst nugget · 19-07-2019 2:22pm

leggo wrote: »

On the ‘better opportunities’ train of thought...

I knew a girl who quite openly said to me before she’d cheat on her boyfriend (who seemed like a perfectly decent bloke who treated her well) if a better opportunity came up. Kind of the same attitude to “It’s better to get a job from a job.”

More than anything I felt bad for both him and her. He probably thought he was with someone totally devoted to him and she’s quite frank about this. She’s got zero sense of loyalty and wouldn’t think twice about breaking someone she claims to care about, so in turn probably can’t actually experience real love or happiness. There’s just no winners in it.

She sounds like a sociopath. I doubt she cares particularly if she can't actually experience real love.

Anna2834 · 19-07-2019 2:26pm

I'd be curious to know who she was doing the cheating with @ Leggo

Anna2834 · 19-07-2019 2:56pm

Interesting school of thought. Maybe it was the case 150 years ago...but even with that...its hard to believe it.

kunst nugget · 19-07-2019 3:01pm

Redsky121 wrote: »

There is a school of thought that men are the "true romantics" as they'll more likely devote themselves to one a woman whereas women are more likely "opportunistic", in that the "love" they speak of is actually an acceptance that they've done as well as they can. If it changes and they think they can do better then they "fall out of love".

Not sure I agree but an interesting view nonetheless.

Did you find that on an incel forum between 'Why are women such ****ing bitches when I'm such a nice guy' and 'All the women I like are whores because they like other men than me'?

Anna2834 · 19-07-2019 3:10pm

Redsky121 wrote: »

No, just a rational discussion to determine underlying dynamics.

I find men are also interested in the "social status" aspect - I cant even begin to tell you the things that have been said to me...but to sum it up...I didn't really make the cut due to the fact that I just wouldn't be good enough since I am a foreigner....family wouldn't accept it...hell they brought into discuss the job he does would take a dim view of my foreignness...and that's just one example...that came from a common "friend"!

kunst nugget · 19-07-2019 3:19pm

Anna2834 wrote: »

I find men are more interested in the "social status" aspect - I cant even begin to tell you the things that have been said to me...but to sum it up...I didn't really make the cut due to the fact that I just wouldn't be good enough since I am a foreigner....family wouldn't accept...hell they brought into discuss the job he does would take a dim view of my foreignness...and that's just one example...that came from a common "friend"!

There's plenty of women obsessed with social status out there too - that type of assholeism is non-gender specific.

Anna2834 · 19-07-2019 3:27pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

There's plenty of women obsessed with social status out there too - that type of assholeism is non-gender specific.

ha ha ha fair enough, now that I am thinking the common friend who told me that, was in fact a woman....and she always did show off...ah well...guess its hard to get that out of my head.

leggo · 20-07-2019 9:57am

kunst nugget wrote: »

She sounds like a sociopath. I doubt she cares particularly if she can't actually experience real love.

I wouldn't necessarily say sociopathic, but definitely high on the narcissistic scale. What's scarier there is that I think a LOT of the Insta generation these days are similar because social media, Love Island etc has programmed them to live their lives based around thinking everything they do is fascinating and they have to chase this mystical life to make other people jealous. Go to the gym, eat fancy food you can take pictures of, talk about Love Island, try to find someone you can go on a 'Sunday Funday' walk to Howth with, who'll buy you whatever jewellery all your other friends are getting off their fellas (so you can post a pic with the caption "He did good") and so on. I know so many people who follow that mould and it's all based around building this avatar of themselves for the world to see rather than actually becoming a healthy, well-rounded individual.

BUT...I feel bad for those people. Being in love and having all of that is awesome, and what's awesome about it is giving yourself to a person and risking being hurt then having that risk pay off. But if you're constantly looking out for your own best interests because you can't do that, then you can't properly experience it. Your entire life is essentially a super posh ****. Whether they care or not because they've no data pattern for it is irrelevant, it's a massive loss to their life and they're the ones who suffer as a result.

Anna2834 wrote: »

I'd be curious to know who she was doing the cheating with @ Leggo

I don't think she did tbh, not at least when we'd have been close (she didn't with me if that's what you're getting at). Although if you're walking around with those thoughts, it just takes a few drinks and the right opportunity to change that so who knows?

20-07-2019 9:02pm

The type of man that cheats a lot is also the type that seems to be irresistible to women. Maybe that's why women have the perception that all guys cheat? And its not about looks... There are plenty of good looking guys who do badly with women because they are too nice. A balding overweight Jack Nicholson type will win over a Michael Buble every time (weird comparison but you get the point)

Calhoun · 20-07-2019 11:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The type of man that cheats a lot is also the type that seems to be irresistible to women. Maybe that's why women have the perception that all guys cheat? And its not about looks... There are plenty of good looking guys who do badly with women because they are too nice. A balding overweight Jack Nicholson type will win over a Michael Buble every time (weird comparison but you get the point)

I don't think nice or not nice comes into it, i think its a case of being comfortable in your own skin and being assertive/confident.

I also don't think that all women think that men cheat but the ones who are attracted to traits in cheaters would.

I get what your saying but the whole nice guy thing has such negative connotations about it.

SusieBlue · 21-07-2019 1:24am

leggo wrote: »

Go to the gym, eat fancy food you can take pictures of, talk about Love Island, try to find someone you can go on a 'Sunday Funday' walk to Howth with, who'll buy you whatever jewellery all your other friends are getting off their fellas (so you can post a pic with the caption "He did good") and so on. I know so many people who follow that mould and it's all based around building this avatar of themselves for the world to see rather than actually becoming a healthy, well-rounded individual.

BUT...I feel bad for those people. Being in love and having all of that is awesome, and what's awesome about it is giving yourself to a person and risking being hurt then having that risk pay off. But if you're constantly looking out for your own best interests because you can't do that, then you can't properly experience it. Your entire life is essentially a super posh ****. Whether they care or not because they've no data pattern for it is irrelevant, it's a massive loss to their life and they're the ones who suffer as a result.

Did it ever occur to you that those types of activities are popular because a lot of people actually enjoy them?

I know just as many people who saturate their social media with posts about hiking/meditating/baking and other more ‘wholesome’ activities that for some reason are considered more socially acceptable, as I do those who post about love island and brunch dates.

Who are we to judge what other people, who aren’t harming anyone, find enjoyable?

I don’t post much on social media but I enjoy most of the things that you mentioned on your list of judgements.That doesn’t mean I am to be pitied or I’m not a well rounded individual.

I would never look down on someone or judge them for the types of things they do for fun, but for some reason it’s fair game on Boards to sneer and look down upon anyone who enjoys anything mainstream as if they are a bunch of unintelligent half wits.

And for what it’s worth, my ex, who cheated on me, hated love island, wouldn’t go on nice walks and never once took a hint I gave for a birthday/chrisrmas gift. A healthy, well rounded individual he was not.

rainybillwill · 21-07-2019 1:31am

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't think nice or not nice comes into it, i think its a case of being comfortable in your own skin and being assertive/confident.

I also don't think that all women think that men cheat but the ones who are attracted to traits in cheaters would.

I get what your saying but the whole nice guy thing has such negative connotations about it.

Women are smart they lie a lot. Look at the gender pay gap rubbish they are spreading, the quotas for females in cushy jobs no quotas for army or contruction. Men cheat more? who benefits from this lie??? WOMEN..

leggo · 21-07-2019 3:11am

SusieBlue wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you that those types of activities are popular because a lot of people actually enjoy them?

I know just as many people who saturate their social media with posts about hiking/meditating/baking and other more ‘wholesome’ activities that for some reason are considered more socially acceptable, as I do those who post about love island and brunch dates.

Who are we to judge what other people, who aren’t harming anyone, find enjoyable?

I don’t post much on social media but I enjoy most of the things that you mentioned on your list of judgements.That doesn’t mean I am to be pitied or I’m not a well rounded individual.

I would never look down on someone or judge them for the types of things they do for fun, but for some reason it’s fair game on Boards to sneer and look down upon anyone who enjoys anything mainstream as if they are a bunch of unintelligent half wits.

And for what it’s worth, my ex, who cheated on me, hated love island, wouldn’t go on nice walks and never once took a hint I gave for a birthday/chrisrmas gift. A healthy, well rounded individual he was not.

I think you’re a bit triggered because you enjoy those activities, so you’re assuming I’m saying enjoying those activities is what makes a person this. It’s not. I go to the gym, I don’t watch Love Island but love a good walk, Howth is a nice place like, and I enjoy spoiling partners with stuff they like.

The point is that people are now directed towards living a life, through social media, that focuses on building their own avatar and that’s what makes them narcissistic. I painted that particular picture because the portrait a lot of these people paint and thus build their life around what appears to be perfect and the ‘right’ thing to do/like rather than building their own individual life, ie they’re working on making the outside look nice while completely ignoring the inside.

I remember chatting to someone I know after they broke up with a guy and were a bit lost, so I asked them “Well why not focus on you for a bit? What are your hobbies?” They went blank and couldn’t think of one thing they liked. Their hobby, the thing they did in life that was for them, was get a boyfriend and post about it on social media. But when you got to know them past that superficial stage, the relationships were a mess. And, even if you just saw their socials, every couple of months you could sub in a new bloke they did the same things with. A lot of people are like that now. They’ve no clue who they actually are and base that discovery off copying what other people do because they’re addicted to likes. And, if they get those likes, they feel validated so have no incentive to change despite everything around them constantly falling apart.

That’s how I personally feel you’re getting a rise in this narcissistic type who see a partner as an accessory rather than an other half, hence little loyalty, hence cheating and the likes.

21-07-2019 8:46am

Leggos point is that it's not liking the activities that is the issue, it's pretending to like them so as to garner likes on social media. We all have our secret shame... I for example am a closet Fair City fan.

dapperdan101 · 22-11-2020 10:36am

sorry to drag on this thread which has come to its inevitable end - like a bad relationship.
im 40 yrs old and i have been on the recieving end of infidelity.
its quite a complicated story really. ive worked hard all along, built a house, drive a decent motor. I met my "wife" when i was 27. we were soon living together, 2 kids, holidays, cars etc. what i thought was a good, honest life.
she started a new job in 2014. made friends and i was happy she had another outlet. soon she joined a gym and shortly after a she told me a guy, Dave, was txting her but not to worry - it was just gym and work stuff.
i didnt mind as i said i was happy she had another outlet. things were still great, sex was brilliant. we took regular family holidays. always kissed and said i love if the other was off to work.
then signs started to appear like she never came home from a work do that was 5 miles away. when i asked why she said the taxi was too expensive!
i checked her phone and sure enough i saw a pic of a naked guy she worked with, that she had been at the work do with the night b4!
funny thing is she wasnt even with that guy, as far as i now. just never understand what kind of relationship they had where was comfortable sending nudes!
she changed the pin on her phone and spent every day in the gym where the first guy, Dave, was.
she changed her attitiude to me, got really nasty even about my friends coming over. she started trying to pay some of the mortgage and wanted my payslips to give to the guy she had nudes on her phone of. she said he could help with our taxes.
all the time i was trying to keep it together for our 2 kids.
eventually i got to breaking point, and tho not proud of this, i put a keglogger on her phone.
sure enough within a week i read the sordid details of their past encounters and what they palnned next. funny thing is it was all her - he wasnt even bothered just that she was making it so easy for him.
i confronted her and she denied it to the end. i told her i had the whatsapps she'd been deleting as she sent them. the keylogger was a godsend.
she broke down then said she was sorry and wanted things to go back to the way they were!! i agreed for the kids and maybe a bit for myself. i didnt want to lose my kds, my home and everything i own.
to protect myself and went to my solicitor but he more or less told me in ireland there is a no blame clause. court sees a breakdown of marriage and splits assets accordingly. in this case coz of the kids she would keep the house i built and am paying for!!
anyway sorry for dragging this on but i thought things were good and we went on a family hoilday to disney.
when we got back the keylogger was long gone. trust didnt come back so i set up a fake fb account. i sent her a message pretending to be him. sure enough within 4 messages she had given her new number and agreed to meet him.
so here i am now a broken man, stuck with a person i hate (but pretend to like), and i have no choice. i pretend coz thats all i can do. i dont want my children living in a toxic environment.
she thinks things are good and happy again, completely unaware of the pain and hurt shes caused or atleast lets on she is.
i think about it every day, first thing in the morning, last thing at night. it never goes away.
cheating is the most sinister, down right horrible disgusting thing a partner / wife / husband can do. it is the ultimate betrayal. im trapped for life.

JeffKenna · 22-11-2020 10:42am

Jez man sorry to hear that, my heart goes out to you reading it.

rtron · 22-11-2020 11:08am

dapperdan101 wrote: »

...
so here i am now a broken man, stuck with a person i hate (but pretend to like), and i have no choice. i pretend coz thats all i can do. i dont want my children living in a toxic environment.
she thinks things are good and happy again, completely unaware of the pain and hurt shes caused...
...it is the ultimate betrayal. im trapped for life.

That's tough Dan, just going to suggest you add your post to PI where you will get some advice from others that had the same experience. You are certainly not trapped there are always options and from your post you sound like a resourceful guy.
Definitely revisit another solicitor for legal advice, if your wife could not afford the mortgage then the house would be lost for you both and the kids so there might be another arrangement ye could make if ye split. If she could afford the mortgage at least you know your kids will have a roof over their heads. I doubt she will block your access to the kids either.

CramCycle · 22-11-2020 11:15am

Your not trapped, you have done nothing wrong (well the keylogger but aside from that). Be civil, say it's not working because of what's happened again (don't say how you know). You'd like to be civil and keep the kids happy so let's have a discussion about how we make that happen. You sound miserable, like it or not, the kids will pick up on that no matter how much you hide it. For your sake and theirs, don't get angry, don't raise your voice and talk to someone whose been through it before. I have friends who have split from their partners with kids and more often than not, it works out in a civil manner. Your never going to trust or forgive her so be honest about that and move on before you throw the rest of your life away.

Mrsmum · 22-11-2020 11:17am

Monife wrote: »

It's something I read on a psychology post about infidelity. I don't have kids and have obviously never lost one so I can't compare. But it is the worst emotional pain I have ever felt, to feel the one person you trusted the most could betray you like that. I'm out of the other side mentally now which is good.

I'm on a few FB groups that discuss the issue and a large number have also been diagnosed with PTSD as a result of being cheated on.

Two of my friends were cheated on by their husbands. I could never have believed the effect it would have had on them. You think you could imagine it as bad but the level of pain and hurt they were in was unreal. They were strong, sound women and it utterly broke them so I agree with you that it is a horrendously painful thing. Sorry it happened to you. He was never worth a curse.
In general I think in any long term relationship, you can't be in the honeymoon phase forever. It's funny though how people who cheat put their energy outside the relationship and then claim things weren't good or exciting within the marriage/relationship. Some people never outgrow needing the first all consuming passionate stage imo. Affairs anyway are totally different from a committed relationship. No washing dishes/hoovering/changing dirty nappies happening in affairs just having your ego and the rest stroked big time.

22-11-2020 11:40am

I went through similar OP and to say it was horrific is an understatement. I'm still not back to myself 6 years later but the first 2 to 3 years I barely functioned tbh, without a doubt it was PTSD.
The only advice I can give to you is to tell a close friend or family member exactly what happened, you need someone you can trust to talk to that will just listen. I told nobody and I think that caused more trauma.
Don't protect her, let people know what happened (without the private details) if they ask what has happened. Don't slate her in public.
Don't fall for her attempts to get back together, it doesn't work after something like this.
Finances are a big thing now, protect your money, make sure you have a track of what you're spending, I'd definitely suggest you check where you're savings are etc.
It's an horrible thing to happen, similar to a death tbh, try to eat and sleep, talk to someone, mind yourself.

HamSarris · 22-11-2020 12:35pm

Mrsmum · 22-11-2020 12:49pm

Around the time my friend was cheated on, another acquaintance of ours lost her husband, he died suddenly. My friend said to me afterwards that at the time she actually envied that woman because the widow was able to grieve in an upfront, uncomplicated way whereas my friend, whose world also crashed suddenly ( as far as she was concerned),was grieving in a twisted way, she hated him and she still loved him and she hated herself for loving and hating him. Also she grieved for her children whose happy existence was forever changed And also you often lose his side of the family and ' his,' friends in a way you wouldn't through death so it's kind of like a complicated death.

JupiterKid · 24-11-2020 3:44pm

My two cents....Cheating is a really sh*tty thing to do to someone else - it’s a betrayal of trust and deceitful. Especially where there are kids involved. But it’s also very, very commonplace.

But I will say this from the perspective of a gay man - gay guys who are in long-term relationships (and indeed married to each other these days) often have open relationships where the two spouses still deeply love each other but get their sexual jollies on the side from other men. It’s very common in gay male relationships and it does seem to work for a lot of gay men (that said, there are gay guys in monogamous relationships too who cheat, or get cheated on and there is huge pain, hurt etc).

Because men in general can more easily separate out and compartmentalise sexual pleasure from love, open relationships (with clear agreed boundaries) can and do work.

And being on an LGBT web forum the past 17 years - I can tell you that the number of deeply closeted gay men married to women with kids etc. who look to cheat on them with other men is a total eye opener. And all the excuses and justifications they make for cheating in the face of the reality of betrayal and not being prepared to bite the dust and end the marriage ... which was a sham anyway. It does sorta lessen your faith in the goodness of humans.

eagle eye · 24-11-2020 3:56pm

JupiterKid wrote:

And being on an LGBT web forum the past 17 years - I can tell you that the number of deeply closeted gay men married to women with kids etc. who look to cheat on them with other men is a total eye opener. And all the excuses and justifications they make for cheating in the face of the reality of betrayal and not being prepared to bite the dust and end the marriage ... which was a sham anyway. It does sorta lessen your faith in the goodness of humans.

Everything you said was fine until.yiu went down the route of criticising them for not ending the marriage.
If there's children involved it's often a case where the person puts their own needs behind that of their children and they should think that way imo.

eviltwin · 24-11-2020 4:27pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Everything you said was fine until.yiu went down the route of criticising them for not ending the marriage.
If there's children involved it's often a case where the person puts their own needs behind that of their children and they should think that way imo.

That's just an excuse.

eagle eye · 24-11-2020 4:46pm

eviltwin wrote:

That's just an excuse.

Well I'm a father and my kids come first.

I don't have any issues as regards my marriage but if I did the no.1 concern would be my kids. I'm pretty confident I'll never have a decision to make but I've often thought about what I'd do if my wife cheated on me and the instant thoughts are kick the crap out of the person she cheated with and walk out but once I get into deeper thought about it I start thinking I'd never forgive her but maybe lie and say I did to keep the marriage going for the sake of the kids.

I'd guess you don't have kids. I didn't understand the love parents have for their kids until my own came along.

Cheating

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