Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Stateofyou · 20-11-2020 03:34PM

Glurrl wrote: »

If it happens again,the next time they see a puppy who are you going to blame then?

You seem very defensive and invested in this story. :pac:

Stateofyou · 20-11-2020 03:42PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

A communication about researching a project topic at home recently was utterly lost in translation because it was said to them as they were packing up and then a parent met their child at the gate with a new puppy. You can just imagine how that went down. In the excitement the info was totally forgotten, and that particular work had to be done the next day instead. Not to mention that it was against every safety protocol for loads of people to hover in a group (looking at the new puppy). I found my two children in the huddle when I arrived that day instead of the neat lines outside as they're supposed to be. :rolleyes:

Anyway, sorry to veer off topic.

Boggles wrote: »

I don't see how that is a teachers fault, did you have stern words with the parent?

You obviously started in on me about fault when I never said or suggested anything.

Boggles wrote: »

Even though it put your children in potential danger, it's not your place?

Also "at the gate", suggests it's off schools grounds.

Now you're the first to bring danger into it, and questioning my role- in telling off an anonymous parent on school property for violating health and safety.

Boggles wrote: »

I don't really care what you do, you are the one that seems upset by it.

But if indeed it is true, then the parent who brought the puppy on to school grounds is 100% to blame.

I never stated I was upset nor did I intimate that I was. The strongest reactions at this point are yours.

Stateofyou wrote: »

They're children. It's a puppy. You can only do so much. Adults supervising children without their parents on school grounds should know better. But if you look at the RTE photo scandal maybe they don't either.

See my point about me not being upset and the strongest reactions are yours, actually.

Boggles wrote: »

Why would I be upset.

It's a puppy. They were outside.

You are the own claiming it broke every safety protocol.

We will write that off to hysterics and leave it there so.

Between the two of us, you're clearly closer to the hysterical side of the spectrum. You seem to be spoiling for a row. Are you having a bad day or something? Christ.

Boggles · 20-11-2020 03:45PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

You obviously started in on me about fault when I never said or suggested anything.

Now you're the first to bring danger into it, and questioning my role- in telling off an anonymous parent on school property for violating health and safety.

I never stated I was upset nor did I intimate that I was. The strongest reactions at this point are yours.

See my point about me not being upset and the strongest reactions are yours, actually.

Between the two of us, you're clearly closer to the hysterical side of the spectrum. You seem to be spoiling for a row. Are you having a bad day or something? Christ.

Odd thing to type on an open message board.

But no, like I said I would never get upset over kids and a puppy.

How could you? Even during these times.

HerrKuehn · 20-11-2020 03:52PM

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

A lot of my college year are in the Middle East now. Quite a few in Asia too. They have been there quite a few years now and no sign of return, they have a good life out there afaik.

We had a lot of recruiters trying to hire us in our final year. English speaking grads are in demand and Irish trained teachers are well demanded. There was a lot of demand for Catholic teachers for the USA in particular.

Oh, I know some will go over alright. It seems that one of the main issues is lack of full time contracts here. Maybe they should look at matching supply and demand a bit better to ensure there isn't an oversupply here.

Stateofyou · 20-11-2020 03:52PM

Boggles wrote: »

Odd thing to type on an open message board.

But no, like I said I would never get upset over kids and a puppy.

How could you? Even during these times.

What's odd about it? Other than this whole conversation.

The odd phrasing is yours. No one is upset over kids and a puppy as if they were just random nouns with no relation to a specific situation.

Reality is, even during these times, there is no immunity from covid when crowding around and cuddling cute puppies in a tight group with loads of kids and adults. More's the pity.

Stateofyou · 20-11-2020 03:58PM

Boggles, are you a teacher? It just occurred to me that maybe you were the parent or one of the school staff supervising the yard that day. Ha ha

Boggles · 20-11-2020 04:11PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

What's odd about it? Other than this whole conversation.

The odd phrasing is yours. No one is upset over kids and a puppy as if they were just random nouns with no relation to a specific situation.

Reality is, even during these times, there is no immunity from covid when crowding around and cuddling cute puppies in a tight group with loads of kids and adults. More's the pity.

Meh, they just emerged from a small room sharing the same air and facilities all day, looking at a puppy outside would be the least risky thing they did that day.

I wouldn't go too hard on them.

Stateofyou wrote: »

Boggles, are you a teacher? It just occurred to me that maybe you were the parent or one of the school staff supervising the yard that day. Ha ha

Negative and no.

BonsaiKitten · 20-11-2020 04:22PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Oh, I know some will go over alright. It seems that one of the main issues is lack of full time contracts here. Maybe they should look at matching supply and demand a bit better to ensure there isn't an oversupply here.

Yeah it's a fairly large proportion of my graduating class, I'd guess around a third are away. Couple in Canada and NZ also I think. Full time contracts are a problem (especially second level, primary is not so bad). Also lack of jobs in rural areas and high cost of Dublin living. Those unequal pay scales turned a lot off teaching in Ireland.

I've often seen Hibernia be blamed for the huge amount of grads available as they take in a lot. Don't know how true that is myself, I reckon it's easy to point the finger at them.

Stateofyou · 20-11-2020 04:24PM

Boggles wrote: »

Meh, they just emerged from a small room sharing the same air and facilities all day, looking at a puppy outside would be the least risky thing they did that day.

I wouldn't go too hard on them.

Negative and no.

Well, seeing as the group were children from different classes, no they weren't sharing the same air all day.

One thing I can say, I will think twice before sharing any story here in future. Jaysus...

Boggles · 20-11-2020 04:26PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well, seeing as the group were children from different classes, no they weren't sharing the same air all day.

One thing I can say, I will think twice before sharing any story here in future. Jaysus...

Probably for the best.

Thats me · 20-11-2020 10:00PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well, seeing as the group were children from different classes, no they weren't sharing the same air all day.

One thing I can say, I will think twice before sharing any story here in future. Jaysus...

Hi Stateofyou, please just ignore this troll and be yourself not adjusting to some idiot's opinion.

Dickie10 · 21-11-2020 12:29AM

did NYPHET or HSE reveal how many school cases there were this week?

Thats me · 21-11-2020 12:05PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

did NYPHET or HSE reveal how many school cases there were this week?

What you mean "school cases"? There is regularly published stats from which you can find numbers of new cases in the age group 5 to 14 yo, try to guess how many of these children were not in school:

2020/11/02	35
2020/11/03	45
2020/11/04	42
2020/11/05	51
2020/11/06	42
2020/11/07	46
2020/11/08	39
2020/11/09	16
2020/11/10	29
2020/11/11 	34
2020/11/12	44
2020/11/13	58
2020/11/14	40
2020/11/15	38
2020/11/16	37
2020/11/17	45
2020/11/18	34

8k71ps · 21-11-2020 12:11PM

Thats me wrote: »
What you mean "school cases"? There is regularly published stats from which you can find numbers of new cases in the age group 5 to 14 yo, try to guess how many of these children were not in school:
2020/11/02	35
2020/11/03	45
2020/11/04	42
2020/11/05	51
2020/11/06	42
2020/11/07	46
2020/11/08	39
2020/11/09	16
2020/11/10	29
2020/11/11 	34
2020/11/12	44
2020/11/13	58
2020/11/14	40
2020/11/15	38
2020/11/16	37
2020/11/17	45
2020/11/18	34

They hardly do regular testing themselves, sure the definition of a close contact is completely different within schools and they have admitted themselves they are far more "conservative" in
assessing close contacts. The problem isn't necessarily that schools are unsafe, it's that they haven't got a clue and are denying any responsibility with statistics that bend the truth, which doesn't exactly look like innocent behaviour.

Thats me · 21-11-2020 12:25PM

8k71ps wrote: »

The problem isn't necessarily that schools are unsafe, it's that they haven't got a clue and are denying any responsibility with statistics that bend the truth, which doesn't exactly look like innocent behaviour.

Agree.
But anyway don't expect shocking numbers. While pupil tends to have covid without symptoms nobody testing symptomless pupil with no "close conacts" determined - it is just too expensive.

My point was and is that while we cannot evaluate school transmission there is no reason to consider schools safe and therefore schools should be closed for the time of L5 isolation.

political analyst · 21-11-2020 01:57PM

So the schools are allowed to stay open for the sake of parents who are working. But where's the concern for the children of the owners of businesses that are closed because of the lockdown?

meeeeh · 21-11-2020 03:57PM

political analyst wrote: »

So the schools are allowed to stay open for the sake of parents who are working. But where's the concern for the children of the owners of businesses that are closed because of the lockdown?

And do you think businesses could open if schools stayed closed? It didn't work in the NI where they closed schools for a while to spare shops being closed.

wirelessdude01 · 21-11-2020 04:18PM

meeeeh wrote: »

And do you think businesses could open if schools stayed closed? It didn't work in the NI where they closed schools for a while to spare shops being closed.

And the shops in the North have to close anyway from next Friday. I think that poster is just trying to troll. Best to just ignore.

Glurrl · 21-11-2020 07:53PM

political analyst wrote: »

So the schools are allowed to stay open for the sake of parents who are working. But where's the concern for the children of the owners of businesses that are closed because of the lockdown?

They're at home anyway and wont have to take off work to mind the children??

Jim Leahy · 22-11-2020 12:27AM

keep the schools open, give the teachers something to do in between holidays

8k71ps · 22-11-2020 07:47AM

Jim Leahy wrote: »

keep the schools open, give the teachers something to do in between holidays

Hard agree, sure the children shouldn't be allowed to take breaks either. 12 hours a day 365 days a year they should be learning the little bastards

ingo1984 · 22-11-2020 09:20AM

I'm just confused. As per latest HSE 14 day report. 0-18 year olds make up about 20% of cases. Yet certain ages don't wear masks in schools or wear masks in shops.

combat14 · 22-11-2020 09:54AM

just seen ad on tv saying that flu spreads really easily and encouraging all 2-12 year olds to be vaccinated to stop the spread...

yet magically covid19 doesnt affect our kids

tests in liverpool revealing hundreds with covid with no symptoms .. yet they are still spreading it...

absolutely bizare stuff.. something doesnt add up..

wadacrack · 22-11-2020 09:57AM

Schools raise the Ro by 0.2 to 0.3. Closing them early just this year would make sense and would probably buy the country more time to roll out a vaccine

Thats me · 22-11-2020 10:07AM

ingo1984 wrote: »

I'm just confused. As per latest HSE 14 day report. 0-18 year olds make up about 20% of cases.

Sorry, what is confusing?
Look, age band 0-4 has 4%. Can we guess it is clearly transmission within household?
Next two age bands has twice of that - probably extra cases are coming from social activity, including school. But these bands including wider age ranges plus we do not know demographic data (how many people of each eage are), so difficult to compare.

Thats me · 22-11-2020 10:11AM

combat14 wrote: »

tests in liverpool revealing hundreds with covid with no symptoms .. yet they are still spreading it...

This is what i suspected with our testing approaches. Don't you have a link?

Blondini · 22-11-2020 10:46AM

Jim Leahy wrote: »

keep the schools open, give the teachers something to do in between holidays

That lazy and hurried post is an insult and an embarrassment to the memory of the great trolls who have come before you.

MelbourneMan · 22-11-2020 10:58AM

wadacrack wrote: »

Schools raise the Ro by 0.2 to 0.3. Closing them early just this year would make sense and would probably buy the country more time to roll out a vaccine

Evidence is not clear on this point. Quantitative data is limited to enable a clear answer, but there is a good case to make that since schools will have been open for four months, keeping children within the same groupings is more useful than taking them out of them and potentially interacting with other contacts.

The first impression that closing schools early would reduce cases would be fine if children were wrapped in individual or even family bubbles. But if instead there were a tendency towards some 'normal' pre Christmas activities, especially if shops are widely open, a wider circle of visiting, more travel, lengthier family stays, or simply congregations of children themselves with children outside their group for additional days that would otherwise have been limited to those in their school grouping, the effect could be not just neutral, but negative.

In a sense, it is better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

Thats me · 22-11-2020 11:06AM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Evidence is not clear on this point.

If something not clear personally for you, you can rely on commom sense or scientific discovery showing schools adds 24% to R - whatever you prefer. :cool:

MelbourneMan · 22-11-2020 11:28AM

Thats me wrote: »

If something not clear personally for you, you can rely on commom sense or scientific discovery showing schools adds 24% to R - whatever you prefer. :cool:

One needs to urge caution in taking a very specific instance and extrapolating its conclusion to a more complex situation as I tried to explain.

I am not disputing the type of data you reference by the way, and that is why the data is scarce - we have no data on the scenario proposed, of closing schools that have been opened, and factor that would apply to R0 that would replace the factor applied to it to which you refer.

Just to illustrate, schoolchildren would not be confined individually to their rooms during such a closure and so taking the 24% (for sake of argument) to zero. Estimating the behaviours that would instead indeed result, and quantifying the effect, is very speculative. Even the 24% cited refers to a particular effect on R0 resulting from the transition of children having been off school, to returning to school. It does not necessarily apply to the different initial conditions of children having been at school (and some proportion having had the virus) for four months, and then going off school again.

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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