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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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Comments

  • #4202
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    For example, there was a change in PE day and there was a mad scramble the morning of on the parents WhatsApp group asking if that's the case, kids weren't sure if was to start that week or next, and there were a few upset children who didn't remember or realise it had changed (and either parents aren't on WhatsApp group or didn't see messages) and kids went to school wearing uniforms and feeling upset by it.
    There was the implementation of a new online program for spellings and parents didn't know anything about it and were trying to help their kids login from home for the first time for homework. Also mass confusion over WhatsApp on what was to be done once logged in.
    Another example is children were asked to bring headphones in, many didn't let their parents know, and a few children thought they were meant to bring in their own tablets, again, mass confusion.
    Young children just can't be relied upon to accurately communicate information and I don't see the issue in using one of the apps to send out short bits of communication when needed. We are all sick of the scramble and having to message each other anyway to figure out wtf is going on...
    We also want to class reps to be able to message back the teacher directly on occasion.
    And many of us want to be able to message the teacher directly about issues with our children. None of us have a way of contacting teachers directly and we are no longer allowed on school property either.

    Our school is generally quite good at communication but we have had incidences like you described above where the children are told something and are not that clear on it or have not heard it fully.

    We also have had days where my eldest ( who can be scatty ) suddenly remembers she needs something (eg. an egg box for art, an emply box or something )when we are ready to go out the door to school ( which is so annoying!)


  • #4203
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    And can they communicate back to you, too?

    No but they all have my email address. A few would have my mobile number through things outside of schools but never contact me on that with regards to school. They know the boundaries.


  • #4204
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    3rd and 4th classes are the two with the issues.


    Having previously had both those classes, I would expect them to be able to convey a message home with regards to PE tracksuit or something similar. We do nothing by spoonfeeding them.


  • #4205
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Deeec wrote: »
    We also have had days where my eldest ( who can be scatty ) suddenly remembers she needs something (eg. an egg box for art, an emply box or something )when we are ready to go out the door to school ( which is so annoying!)

    I actually think it's good kids are expected to remember some things by themselves and deal with the consequences if they don't.

    Anyway we all have teacher's emails but they are more used to give consent to certain classes and similar. I still don't know what days PE is supposed to be on, kids can wear whatever uniform they want because uniforms need to be washed more often.


  • #4206
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭Deeec


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I actually think it's good kids are expected to remember some things by themselves and deal with the consequences if they don't.

    Anyway we all have teacher's emails but they are more used to give consent to certain classes and similar. I still don't know what days PE is supposed to be on, kids can wear whatever uniform they want because uniforms need to be washed more often.

    I agree - they need to learn to take responsibility for themselves and plan ahead for the next day. Sometimes it does drive me crazy though!


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  • #4207
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Having previously had both those classes, I would expect them to be able to convey a message home it regards to PE tracksuit or something similar. We do nothing by spoonfeeding them.

    Thanks for the insights. I know they need to be able to be independent. I think they (and their parents) would be better served if the teachers could help establish better habits by requiring them to write the information down as it's being told to them.
    A communication about researching a project topic at home recently was utterly lost in translation because it was said to them as they were packing up and then a parent met their child at the gate with a new puppy. You can just imagine how that went down. In the excitement the info was totally forgotten, and that particular work had to be done the next day instead. Not to mention that it was against every safety protocol for loads of people to hover in a group (looking at the new puppy). I found my two children in the huddle when I arrived that day instead of the neat lines outside as they're supposed to be. :rolleyes:

    Anyway, sorry to veer off topic.


  • #4208
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,799 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    You're wrong.

    We aren't in the 1960s anymore. The idea that teaching is a vocation anymore is pretty much dead in the water. Teaching is a job. End of. You know the phrase, live to work. Now redundant.

    Oh right I didn't realise. I grew up in the 70s so I guess I have an 'old school' view. Maybe some teachers just aren't suited to the job then. Do many people leave teaching?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #4209
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Thanks for the insights. I know they need to be able to be independent. I think they (and their parents) would be better served if the teachers could help establish better habits by requiring them to write the information down as it's being told to them.
    A communication about researching a project topic at home recently was utterly lost in translation because it was said to them as they were packing up and then a parent met their child at the gate with a new puppy. You can just imagine how that went down. In the excitement the info was totally forgotten, and that particular work had to be done the next day instead. Not to mention that it was against every safety protocol for loads of people to hover in a group (looking at the new puppy). I found my two children in the huddle when I arrived that day instead of the neat lines outside as they're supposed to be. :rolleyes:

    Anyway, sorry to veer off topic.

    I don't see how that is a teachers fault, did you have stern words with the parent?


  • #4210
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Boggles wrote: »
    I don't see how that is a teachers fault, did you have stern words with the parent?

    Sorry, where did I say it was the teacher's fault?

    But since you mention it, I would say it is the responsibility of the teachers there supervising in the yard to enforce their own school policy. It is not my place to approach a parent with "stern words" about their disregard of school policy.


  • #4211
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Sorry, where did I say it was the teacher's fault?

    But since you mention it, I would say it is the responsibility of the teachers there supervising in the yard to enforce their own school policy. It is not my place to approach a parent with "stern words" about their disregard of school policy.


    Even though it put your children in potential danger, it's not your place?

    Also "at the gate", suggests it's off schools grounds.


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  • #4212
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Deeec wrote: »
    I agree - they need to learn to take responsibility for themselves and plan ahead for the next day. Sometimes it does drive me crazy though!

    Oh I know. We were scrambling for parts for potato battery at 10 o'clock at night because his lordship forgot to mention that he needs to bring supplies to school next day. :D


  • #4213
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »
    Oh right I didn't realise. I grew up in the 70s so I guess I have an 'old school' view. Maybe some teachers just aren't suited to the job then. Do many people leave teaching?

    No idea about here but I trained in England and the drop out rate for new primary teachers is approximately half within the first 4/5 years.

    My own PGCE group in England. 4 or 5 of them never taught after getting through teaching practice. Another 10-13 never wanted a proper job, happy to do supply(subbing) without the headache paperwork. I know at least 15 have since left the profession for various different reasons. Think 8 of us Irish came after using the Queens shilling to pay for our training!!!

    On the teaching as a vocation thing. It came up in staffroom chat precovid in our place. Principal who would have considered teaching to be a vocation was shocked to hear that only one teacher considered it a vocation(she comes from a family of teachers).

    Now to put it in context, about half of us did postgraduate to retrain after experience of nursing, IT, accountancy and SNA work. Myself I'll be honest that in my previous job I earned in half a year what I would earn as a primary principal at the top of the scale in a year. Money isn't the be all and end all of life.


  • #4214
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,218 ✭✭✭khalessi


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    ... and yet you changed career to teaching. For the number or hours per year a primary school teacher works you would find it very difficult to beat the pay per hour.

    I changed due for reasons nothing to do with hours or money. I loved nursing and loved teaching, both provided opportunities and experiences I never would have had otherwise and have been lucky to have had two jjobs I loved.


  • #4215
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Boggles wrote: »
    Even though it put your children in potential danger, it's not your place?

    Also "at the gate", suggests it's off schools grounds.

    Let's look at this so. You stated my children were in potential danger. I agree. I was not there from probably around 5 minutes after it started is my guess. It is obviously better to prevent possible exposure and spread than it is to have "stern words" with someone later, after the exposure has already happened. That doesn't make any sense.

    The "gate" is really a high fence with a gate in it around the side of the school where the children come out to parents who are not to enter through this year. It's not off school grounds.
    The puppy was in the arms of a child I don't know who had walked through the gate back towards the school side with it, and I don't know who the parent was, either. In that group of children huddled around the puppy there were a handful of parents (despite school rules) and two teachers. Should I launch an investigation as to who the child and parent was to have 'stern words' with them after the fact of potential exposure on school grounds? Please advise.


  • #4216
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    khalessi wrote: »
    Actually teachers have been scorned for years so no real change there. It is amazing how many people love to bash teachers, almost a hobby on boards for at least 15 years from what I have seen.

    In England right now you would get a tax free bursary of 15 to 20,000 pounds to train a teacher for certain subjects due to dire shortages. Thats what happens when you ruin a profession...

    Some want to do the same here. My two kids have been through primary and well on their way through secondary. Their teacher have all been hardworking, and interested in their well being. I did not have a single issue with any of my kids teachers.

    Teaching still a good job in Ireland and attracts good quality graduates. We should be thankful for that.


  • #4217
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    khalessi wrote: »
    I changed due for reasons nothing to do with hours or money. I loved nursing and loved teaching, both provided opportunities and experiences I never would have had otherwise and have been lucky to have had two jjobs I loved.

    Pretty much the same here. Loved the area I worked in, loved my colleagues and the multinational were great to us. Wanted a change though and also wanted to get out of Dublin as I'm a culchie at heart. The days of having one career for life are coming to an end. No one can decide at 17 what they want to do for the rest of their lives.


  • #4218
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    joe40 wrote: »
    In England right now you would get a tax free bursary of 15 to 20,000 pounds to train a teacher for certain subjects due to dire shortages. Thats what happens when you ruin a profession...

    Some want to do the same here. My two kids have been through primary and well on their way through secondary. Their teacher have all been hardworking, and interested in their well being. I did not have a single issue with any of my kids teachers.

    Teaching still a good job in Ireland and attracts good quality graduates. We should be thankful for that.

    Agreed. Talking to English teachers about their work hours and expectations is quite shocking. Very long days, working through breaks, hours of work at night and weekends, endless data tracking. Doesn't seem to do much for their outcomes either, it's all about control.

    On the vocation thing, I don't consider it a vocation. It's a job. I enjoy my job, I'm good at it but it's only a job at the end of the day. Those who think of it as a vocation (in my school, can't speak for others) would tend to be on the perfectionist, workaholic end of the spectrum ime.


  • #4219
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Let's look at this so. You stated my children were in potential danger. I agree. I was not there from probably around 5 minutes after it started is my guess. It is obviously better to prevent possible exposure and spread than it is to have "stern words" with someone later, after the exposure has already happened. That doesn't make any sense.

    The "gate" is really a high fence with a gate in it around the side of the school where the children come out to parents who are not to enter through this year. It's not off school grounds.
    The puppy was in the arms of a child I don't know who had walked through the gate back towards the school side with it, and I don't know who the parent was, either. In that group of children huddled around the puppy there were a handful of parents (despite school rules) and two teachers. Should I launch an investigation as to who the child and parent was to have 'stern words' with them after the fact of potential exposure on school grounds? Please advise.

    I don't really care what you do, you are the one that seems upset by it.

    But if indeed it is true, then the parent who brought the puppy on to school grounds is 100% to blame.


  • #4220
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    joe40 wrote: »

    Teaching still a good job in Ireland and attracts good quality graduates. We should be thankful for that.

    I agree that it does on the whole attract good people. However a substantial number of B-Eds go abroad pretty much straight out of college as they have far better prospects abroad. The popularity of the likes of the Hibernia route allows more mature(as in older) people to retrain and most of these stay in Ireland. The flow of younger teachers out of Ireland is causing huge staffing issues particularly along the Eastern seaboard.


  • #4221
    Glurrl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭Glurrl


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Let's look at this so. You stated my children were in potential danger. I agree. I was not there from probably around 5 minutes after it started is my guess. It is obviously better to prevent possible exposure and spread than it is to have "stern words" with someone later, after the exposure has already happened. That doesn't make any sense.

    The "gate" is really a high fence with a gate in it around the side of the school where the children come out to parents who are not to enter through this year. It's not off school grounds.
    The puppy was in the arms of a child I don't know who had walked through the gate back towards the school side with it, and I don't know who the parent was, either. In that group of children huddled around the puppy there were a handful of parents (despite school rules) and two teachers. Should I launch an investigation as to who the child and parent was to have 'stern words' with them after the fact of potential exposure on school grounds? Please advise.

    Teach your children they must follow social distancing rules.


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  • #4222
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    BonsaiKitten wrote: »
    Agreed. Talking to English teachers about their work hours and expectations is quite shocking. Very long days, working through breaks, hours of work at night and weekends, endless data tracking. Doesn't seem to do much for their outcomes either, it's all about control.

    On the vocation thing, I don't consider it a vocation. It's a job. I enjoy my job, I'm good at it but it's only a job at the end of the day. Those who think of it as a vocation (in my school, can't speak for others) would tend to be on the perfectionist, workaholic end of the spectrum ime.

    My contract in England stated I had to be on the premises from 7:30 to 5 Monday to Friday. If I wanted to catch the 8pm flight from Stansted home on a Friday I had to write to the board of governors 6 weeks in advance and it was often turned down. Tracking of children with regards to levels was intense and if you ask me actually counterproductive. Only led to stress and anxiety amongst both the students and their parents.


  • #4223
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    I agree that it does on the whole attract good people. However a substantial number of B-Eds go abroad pretty much straight out of college as they have far better prospects abroad. The popularity of the likes of the Hibernia route allows more mature(as in older) people to retrain and most of these stay in Ireland. The flow of younger teachers out of Ireland is causing huge staffing issues particularly along the Eastern seaboard.

    Where do they go? Surely not the UK as the conditions are worse there. I suppose a reasonable number go temporarily to the middle east, but most wouldn't see that as a long term option.
    I understand that it is difficult to find Maths and Physics teachers. This would be in part due to the fact that graduates in those subjects have other, better paid options in industry. Maybe the solution is to have additional pay in those subjects and probably also remove the fee for teacher training.


  • #4224
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Where do they go? Surely not the UK as the conditions are worse there. I suppose a reasonable number go temporarily to the middle east, but most wouldn't see that as a long term option.
    I understand that it is difficult to find Maths and Physics teachers. This would be in part due to the fact that graduates in those subjects have other, better paid options in industry. Maybe the solution is to have additional pay in those subjects and probably also remove the fee for teacher training.

    Alot indeed do go to the UK. Proper contracts are a big draw. Sitting at home on sh!try hours isn't feasible for alot if they have loads to pay or if they actually want to have a life. Plenty go to the middle East for anywhere from 3-6 years and some longer. Some of my friends are there 10+years and no intention of coming home to what is on offer here. They openly laughed at the proposal that Joe brought over to try and entice them home.


  • #4225
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    There is an issue Ireland will have because it's English speaking country. Especial medical/nursing and also teaching graduates will have it easier to work in other English speaking countries or English speaking institutions. Add to that history emigration and good Irish community in other countries it makes it easier. Anyway some sort of report is out:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/staff-rooms-a-key-risk-for-spread-of-covid-19-in-schools-health-officials-warn-1.4414623?mode=amp


  • #4226
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Glurrl wrote: »
    Teach your children they must follow social distancing rules.

    They're children. It's a puppy. You can only do so much. Adults supervising children without their parents on school grounds should know better. But if you look at the RTE photo scandal maybe they don't either.


  • #4227
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Boggles wrote: »
    I don't really care what you do, you are the one that seems upset by it.

    But if indeed it is true, then the parent who brought the puppy on to school grounds is 100% to blame.

    I'm not as upset as you seemed to be. I know it was a once off and if it happened again, I would speak up. To the principle. The parent is to blame for bringing the puppy, the school staff allowing all to congregate around it also have some responsibility. Anyway, happy to drop it now.


  • #4228
    Glurrl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭Glurrl


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    They're children. It's a puppy. You can only do so much. Adults supervising children without their parents on school grounds should know better. But if you look at the RTE photo scandal maybe they don't either.

    If it happens again,the next time they see a puppy who are you going to blame then?


  • #4229
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Glurrl wrote: »
    If it happens again,the next time they see a puppy who are you going to blame then?

    the puppy is to blame


  • #4230
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    I'm not as upset as you seemed to be.

    Why would I be upset. :confused:

    It's a puppy. They were outside.

    You are the own claiming it broke every safety protocol.

    We will write that off to hysterics and leave it there so.


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  • #4231
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Where do they go? Surely not the UK as the conditions are worse there. I suppose a reasonable number go temporarily to the middle east, but most wouldn't see that as a long term option.
    I understand that it is difficult to find Maths and Physics teachers. This would be in part due to the fact that graduates in those subjects have other, better paid options in industry. Maybe the solution is to have additional pay in those subjects and probably also remove the fee for teacher training.

    A lot of my college year are in the Middle East now. Quite a few in Asia too. They have been there quite a few years now and no sign of return, they have a good life out there afaik.

    We had a lot of recruiters trying to hire us in our final year. English speaking grads are in demand and Irish trained teachers are well demanded. There was a lot of demand for Catholic teachers for the USA in particular.


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