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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #8222
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Finally we have a group talking sense.

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-health-group-calls-for-nphet-to-be-disbanded-39748003.html


  • #8223
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    average_runner wrote: »
    Nine EU states have fully sealed their borders to non-nationals over the coronavirus pandemic, despite experts saying it will do no good.
    The Czech Republic, Cyprus, Denmark, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, and Spain have announced they would close borders to all foreigners.
    Some in the group, such as Denmark, made allowances for non-nationals who were delivering goods to the country.
    The moves followed partial closures and extra border checks imposed by Austria, Hungary, Slovenia, and several other countries.
    Germany also joined the part-closure group on Monday (16 March), by all-but sealing its frontiers with Austria, Denmark, France, and Luxembourg, while Slovenia closed its border with Italy.

    Non nationals and non permanent residents I’ll think you find. Which is what I said, and effectively what is the reality here


  • #8224
    Gavlor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    average_runner wrote: »


    I know we are taking the kids out of school the Friday 18th (school finishes on the 22nd). This will enable us to have the grand parents over for xmas without much of a risk or worry

    Good call


  • #8225
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Penfailed wrote: »
    Did they do it?

    No. They just stopped tourists for a while


  • #8226
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Finally we have a group talking sense.

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-health-group-calls-for-nphet-to-be-disbanded-39748003.html

    Fantastic article to wake up and read. thank you.


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  • #8227
    Cork2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Finally we have a group talking sense.

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-health-group-calls-for-nphet-to-be-disbanded-39748003.html

    It’s a pity the government will probably put that in shredder when they receive it.

    People talking sense isn’t what NPHET or the government want.

    Is the white paper available to read anywhere? They don’t seem to have any social media


  • #8228
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1115/1178244-covid-ireland-latest/
    The Chief Medical Officer has warned that the average five-day Covid-19 case count is rising, describing it as "a worrying development which has persisted for the last few days".

    FFS

    Numbers going down yet they still have to report doom and gloom


  • #8229
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 999 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    The two weeks are critical, we are all very concerned.


    They shot themselves in the foot with over-caution during the Summer so no wonder there's fatigue.

    Take Austria just for comparison. Cases through the roof like everywhere else and they monitored the increase, tried light restrictions for two weeks, told the people they didn't work (without blaming various sections of industry/society), and move to total lockdown including schools closed for 3/4 weeks, while being able to give a full weeks notice.

    They police their borders - just some entry points and not with the intention of locking anyone up, it's just a deterrent for non-essential entry and exit.

    Heavy fines in place and strict curfews, although they're far from trigger happy with enforcement, but again it's enough of a deterrent for many.

    90% of your pay if you can't work due to restrictions, and schools and creches open to provide essential daycare. You can apply for leave from work if you need to keep your children at home and can't look after them while working from home.

    They can do this because they were open for 5 months after initial lockdown and didn't p*ss away a boatload of money on drawn-out nonsensical restrictions. They will likely get numbers down in a few short weeks and then open up to relative normality again.

    Meanwhile we suck up whatever the government tell us they can't do, and we aim for the lowest numbers possible at any cost because we care more about our vulnerable than other countries.


  • #8230
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Finally we have a group talking sense.

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-health-group-calls-for-nphet-to-be-disbanded-39748003.html

    Brilliant! I have a lot of time for Dr Jack Lambert - he has always talked sense!


  • #8231
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    AssetBacked2 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-hospital-numbers-falling-but-warning-of-unpredictable-nature-of-virus-1.4409628?mode=amp

    Hospital numbers falling but don't celebrate as the virus is unpredictable. Are they ****ing serious? It's good news full stop and to say at this stage it is unpredictable, nearly a year into the crisis, is unforgiveable.

    Headline changed from "covid-19-hospital-numbers-falling-but-warning-of-unpredictable-nature-of-virus", since this link was posted two days ago. And people think there is a narrative :rolleyes:


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  • #8232
    MelbourneMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭MelbourneMan


    Cork2021 wrote: »
    This thread from morning ireland...

    https://twitter.com/morningireland/status/1328252611296972801?s=21

    I’m so sick of been told what we can and cannot do. I think it was here last night I saw a poster say that the language the CMO is using is and will start to alienate people and it’ll all eventually be a big FÛCK YOU to NPHET and the government

    There will always be the people of poor judgement or reason who will be tempted to ignore restrictions. But fortunately they are few, and those more rational and with a greater sense of community cooperation will understand and thus comply with the guidelines. We must encourage all to do follow the advice.

    The reality is that the required average level of restriction will be applied whatever. So those skirting them, are simply prompting the levels to be raised, so that those complying, shoulder and even greater burden in the virus suppression.

    Anyone not following regulations is being deviant, antisocial, and has no care for justice or fairness towards their fellow citizens.


  • #8233
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Finally we have a group talking sense.

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/new-health-group-calls-for-nphet-to-be-disbanded-39748003.html

    Wow.

    The medical junta general Tony H will be overthrown yet.

    Micheal Collins and Tom Barry will smile down upon us


  • #8234
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Brilliant! I have a lot of time for Dr Jack Lambert - he has always talked sense!

    A quote from the group;
    Dr McConville insisted "Nphet's focus is too narrow" and the Government should consider other experts including engineers, mathematicians and statisticians to interpret Covid data.

    Weird, I thought NPHET were the expert group and we were just Boards.ie nuts who don't like to listen to experts. Who knew :eek::pac:


  • #8235
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    MelbourneMan wrote: »
    There will always be the people of poor judgement or reason who will be tempted to ignore restrictions. But fortunately they are few, and those more rational and with a greater sense of community cooperation will understand and thus comply with the guidelines. We must encourage all to do follow the advice.

    The reality is that the required average level of restriction will be applied whatever. So those skirting them, are simply prompting the levels to be raised, so that those complying, shoulder and even greater burden in the virus suppression.

    Anyone not following regulations is being deviant, antisocial, and has no care for justice or fairness towards their fellow citizens.

    Why did NPHET not come out with advice to the government to close meat plants when they were a known high-risk setting in the early days? Further into the crisis, just before the midlands lockdown, when it was clear that there were clusters in meat factories and practices were terrible, why did NPHET not recommend to close them down? I don't recall the government introducing "guidelines" that meat plants should be closed.

    Separately, Simon "Remember we had 18 covids before covid 19" Harris stated, back in March, that travel could not be restricted and it would be pointless to ban flights as people would still get into the country. The government then introduced "guidelines" and a highly orchestrated media campaign to say that travel unless for non-essential reasons was banned. However, they have argued in court in recent weeks that this was only advisory and not intended to be legally binding.

    Two examples of massive hypocrisies and inconsistencies in the "guidelines" which demonstrate how essential it is to not follow blindly. In fact, it would be extremely dangerous to follow the guidelines blindly as they do not even realise that the following extreme measures are part of the current guidelines;
    • Prohibition (pubs are not allowed to open).
    • Puritanism (do not meet with those not in your household).
    • Lockdown (stay within 5km of your home).

    The groupthink at the level of those making the guidelines has lead to this extreme situation and needs to be questioned at least or completely disobeyed at worst.


  • #8236
    brisan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    [QUOTE=end of the road;115284939]the main bullet points are what most are interested in i would expect, and that is probably why there isn't lots of data given out via the media on a daily basis.
    i expect though it is available if you know where to look.







    we are currently doing exactly that, keeping the virus at a suppressed level, therefore controlling and managing it.
    again, and i can't believe i am still having to point this out, it doesn't mean the virus goes away, it simply means we are limiting the spread via our actions, as in the majority following what we are being asked to follow.[/QUOTE]

    They do not give the other figures because they are trying to hide their failings
    Having covid in nursing homes where the most vulnerable live is unacceptable at this stage
    People getting Covid i hospital is also unacceptable at this stage


  • #8237
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/may2020/COVID-19%20NPHET%20Epi%20Report%2020200514%20%E2%80%93%20Web.pdf

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_20201113%20-%20website.pdf

    For whoever wants to know, here are some points on the last 6 months of covid in Ireland (14 May - 13 November, 2020) - under the age of 85, for obvious reasons;

    Confirmed Cases 42,573
    Deaths 272

    Of the 272 deaths;
    • Under 65 36
    • Over 65 236

    But 92% of all deaths had "underlying clinical conditions". Around 550 people in a year will die "with covid" based on the last 6 months of data. I was going to put in percentages of deaths as against cases but to be honest those numbers are objectively extremely low so as not to need such calculations.

    To claim that covid alone is still a health crisis is to ignore the data. To claim this is a health crisis justifying severe curtailments to social and economic life is to be completely and totally ignorant.


  • #8238
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,881 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    brisan wrote: »
    They do not give the other figures because they are trying to hide their failings
    Having covid in nursing homes where the most vulnerable live is unacceptable at this stage
    People getting Covid i hospital is also unacceptable at this stage

    How do you fully protect nursing homes?

    Deliveries arrive every day, how do we ensure driver doesnt have it?

    Staff have to shop and look after their kids ie sports etc, how do we stop the staff having it?

    You could test on Monday but that takes a few hours to come back? Do we test every day?


  • #8239
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,948 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    average_runner wrote: »
    How do you fully protect nursing homes?

    Deliveries arrive every day, how do we ensure driver doesnt have it?

    Staff have to shop and look after their kids ie sports etc, how do we stop the staff having it?

    You could test on Monday but that takes a few hours to come back? Do we test every day?

    So the Northern Ireland problem just needs some creative thinking while protecting nursing homes is an insurmountable task...

    Unreal.


  • #8240
    dalyboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    average_runner wrote: »
    How do you fully protect nursing homes?

    Deliveries arrive every day, how do we ensure driver doesnt have it?

    Staff have to shop and look after their kids ie sports etc, how do we stop the staff having it?

    You could test on Monday but that takes a few hours to come back? Do we test every day?

    Yes.. everyday we could Antigen test before entry and have results in 15 mins.
    Simple


  • #8241
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    dalyboy wrote: »
    Yes.. everyday we could Antigen test before entry and have results in 15 mins.
    Simple




    Could do two antigen tests in a row to rule out any false results.


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  • #8242
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 56,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Mod:

    Kermit.de.frog's

    threadban has now been lifted after discussions with user

    Moderator: Current Affairs/IMHO, Soccer, Pro Wrestling



  • #8243
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    funnydoggy wrote: »
    Could do two antigen tests in a row to rule out any false results.


    Elon Musk tweeted the other day that he done four of them and had 2 positive and 2 negative results.

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1327125840040169472


  • #8244
    dalyboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    funnydoggy wrote: »
    Could do two antigen tests in a row to rule out any false results.

    Exactly. Where there is a will there is a way.

    The main downside to a PCR test are the false positives and length of time it takes to achieve a result. (Which imho renders them not fit for purpose)

    It’s beyond understanding why antigen tests have not replaced PCR as a main testing gold standard. (98% accuracy and 15 mins results. NO brainer)


  • #8245
    dalyboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    Elon Musk tweeted the other day that he done four of them and had 2 positive and 2 negative results.

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1327125840040169472

    I’ve heard of similar occurrences with PCR too. Friends trying to gain access to SE Asia had positive one day and negative 3 days later (on 14 day mandatory hotel quarantines)


  • #8246
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    Elon Musk tweeted the other day that he done four of them and had 2 positive and 2 negative results.

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1327125840040169472




    That fella would have to complicate things :pac:


  • #8247
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    The two weeks are critical, we are all very concerned.

    I'm convinced at this point the NPHET conferences are all some deepfake style recording of different stitched together clips of footage and audio and the real Tony's at home enjoying a cuppa.


  • #8248
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,260 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Article in the Indo:

    It is not practical for pubs to open for a short period over Christmas only to close again due to another lockdown afterwards, publicans have warned.

    Pubs will also need to have indoor drinking and dining in order for it to be viable for them to re-open in December, said Vintner’s Federation of Ireland chief Padraig Cribben.

    “There are substantial costs in opening up and even greater costs in closing down – loss of draught stock, etc, that make short periods of trading unviable,” he said.

    “It also causes great stress for publicans and staff alike.

    “Why would staff want to come off the PUP (pandemic unemployment payment) for a short period and then face the anguish and delays of getting back on?” he asked.

    In other news, water is wet!


  • #8249
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1116/1178442-coronavirus-vaccine/

    Yet another cheery and heart-warming news report from the doom merchants in RTE.

    In comparison, UK media outlets reporting on the roll out of vaccines before the end of the year, very positive from them. Spanish outlets reporting on the plan being put in place to vaccinate its people.

    RTE have given the great news of vaccines a wide berth, our government are in the process of putting a team together to make a plan while other countries are already planning.

    Confidence in the HSE pulling this off is dwindling by the day. I can envisage us still being massively restricted while other nations are well ahead of us in terms of opening up. We already have had the toughest restrictions in Europe since March. Depressing.


  • #8250
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I thought the RO number was the one to watch?
    If the RO number stays below or can be kept below 1,then the those that have it recover whilst is dies out. I thought the other day we were at 0.7-0.7?

    At least reference to the virus leaving the wider community if KEPT below 1 is not my idea of how it works, it's NPHET's.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-reproduction-number-5146622-Jul2020/


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  • #8251
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    Lundstram wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1116/1178442-coronavirus-vaccine/

    Yet another cheery and heart-warming news report from the doom merchants in RTE.

    In comparison, UK media outlets reporting on the roll out of vaccines before the end of the year, very positive from them. Spanish outlets reporting on the plan being put in place to vaccinate its people.

    RTE have given the great news of vaccines a wide berth, our government are in the process of putting a team together to make a plan while other countries are already planning.

    Confidence in the HSE pulling this off is dwindling by the day. I can envisage us still being massively restricted while other nations are well ahead of us in terms of opening up. We already have had the toughest restrictions in Europe since March. Depressing.

    I've come to terms with the fact we'll drop the ball on the vaccine front. The usual suspects will have the apologies and excuses prepped and all the local heroes looking for lockdown will eat it off the floor


This discussion has been closed.
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