Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

walus · 15-11-2020 10:05PM

nofools wrote: »

This is a nice dance we are having but i will leave to you to think Bill Gates is plotting against us all or whatever notions you were having.

I could argue with you all day and night if you want, the facts, truth and reason are on my side. You are making things up and doing logical cartwheels. Tiresome.

As for the stock price when the market hears this: “ The US drugmaker Pfizer and the German biotech firm BioNTech stand to bring in nearly $13bn (£9.8bn) in global sales from their coronavirus vaccine next year, which will be evenly split between the two companies, according to analysts at the US investment bank Morgan Stanley.”, there is bound to be an appropriate reaction on the stock market. And no, it was not caused by a change of winds.

It is tiresome indeed... facts, truth and reason on your side? Nox, is that you?

I rest my case.

Edit: more on Pfizer’s approach: “While other vaccine makers have pledged not to profit from their jabs during the pandemic, Pfizer has taken a different stance. Treating it as a commercial opportunity, the company turned down research funding from the US government under its vaccine programme Operation Warp Speed, and used almost $2bn of its own money instead.”
“ Pfizer has agreed to supply 100m doses to the US at a price of $39 for a two-shot course, or $19.50 per dose, with the option to supply another 500m doses under new terms. The EU has ordered 200m doses while the UK has ordered 40m.” Astra Zeneca are charging 3-5$ per dose (non profit approach).

CruelSummer · 15-11-2020 10:08PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1115/1178244-covid-ireland-latest/

Looks like NPHET are going for the role of Ebanezer Scrooge 21st Century version. To be fair, George Lee would make a good Ghost of Christmas present bringing NPHET around to watch people having the audacity to ‘enjoy’ themselves. We need to stay at home, stare out at the rain, and stay tuned as to who our Ghost of Christmas future will be - Stephen Donnelly perhaps? Paul Reid and the HSE announcing major investments in our systems that would cost less than these lockdowns?
In this article Holohan also states - ‘work from home where possible’, as if people haven’t done that for long enough. Or others who can’t work from home shouldn’t be leaving the house. Is he actually attempting to shut down more businesses in the run up to Christmas?
When you keep crying Wolf & keep stating doomsday predictions that never materialise, the penny starts to drop among the public.

CruelSummer · 15-11-2020 10:11PM

nofools wrote: »

I don't believe the measures are causing more harm than good and invite you to prove me wrong.

Present your case

Living with the virus is a work of fiction

To be fair, I’ve made my views abundantly clear on both threads. Last week I did ask for your stance as to where we should go from here and haven’t seen anything concrete in your posts as to what your viewpoint is exactly re a way forward.

nofools · 15-11-2020 10:13PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1115/1178244-covid-ireland-latest/

Looks like NPHET are going for the role of Ebanezer Scrooge 21st Century version. To be fair, George Lee would make a good Ghost of Christmas present bringing NPHET around to watch people having the audacity to ‘enjoy’ themselves. We need to stay at home, stare out at the rain, and stay tuned as to who our Ghost of Christmas future will be - Stephen Donnelly perhaps? Paul Reid and the HSE announcing major investments in our systems that would cost less than these lockdowns?
In this article Holohan also states - ‘work from home where possible’, as if people haven’t done that for long enough. Or others who can’t work from home shouldn’t be leaving the house. Is he actually attempting to shut down more businesses in the run up to Christmas?
When you keep crying Wolf & keep stating doomsday predictions that never materialise, the penny starts to drop among the public.

Is the moral of that story not about fair warning being ignored at their peril in the end?

nofools · 15-11-2020 10:15PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

To be fair, I’ve made my views abundantly clear on both threads. Last week I did ask for your stance as to where we should go from here and haven’t seen anything concrete in your posts as to what your viewpoint is exactly re a way forward.

We take our medicine with good grace because a stitch in time saves nine.

That is my view

hmmm · 15-11-2020 10:16PM

walus wrote: »

As for the stock price when the market hears this: “ The US drugmaker Pfizer and the German biotech firm BioNTech stand to bring in nearly $13bn (£9.8bn) in global sales from their coronavirus vaccine next year, which will be evenly split between the two companies, according to analysts at the US investment bank Morgan Stanley.”, there is bound to be an appropriate reaction on the stock market.

Whatever argument people have against vaccines, saying that large companies will make profits out of them is pretty weak. The only people capable of manufacturing vaccines at the speed and scales required are the large pharmaceutical companies - that's why Oxford partnered with Astra Zeneca. There is an entire coalition of vaccine manufacturers, governments and charities involved with institutions like CEPI to make sure vaccines can be provided to the poorer parts of the world at affordable prices.

You'll probably have a choice of vaccines next year - choose the Astra Zeneca one if you want the one being charged at cost. Pfizer, J&J etc aren't charities, and 40 dollars a vaccine isn't an exorbitant cost for something which will help end this pandemic.

walus · 15-11-2020 10:20PM

hmmm wrote: »

Whatever argument people have against vaccines, saying that large companies will make profits out of them is pretty weak. The only people capable of manufacturing vaccines at the speed and scales required are the large pharmaceutical companies - that's why Oxford partnered with Astra Zeneca. There is an entire coalition of vaccine manufacturers, governments and charities involved with institutions like CEPI to make sure vaccines can be provided to the poorer parts of the world at affordable prices.

You'll probably have a choice of vaccines next year - choose the Astra Zeneca one if you want the one being charged at cost. Pfizer, J&J etc aren't charities, and 40 dollars a vaccine isn't an exorbitant cost for something which will help end this pandemic.

You are correct. That was not however a point of a discussion with nofools.

FrStone · 15-11-2020 10:22PM

hmmm wrote: »

Emergency use for vaccines will be approved by end of December, and they will start being given to Health-care workers first, and then the highly vulnerable groups e.g. nursing home patients & staff.

Interesting that you think the vaccine will be given to health care workers first. In the UK, they are planning to roll the vaccine out to nursing home workers and residents before giving it to healthcare workers.

nofools · 15-11-2020 10:23PM

walus wrote: »

You are correct. That was not however a point of a discussion with nofools.

What was it anyway? We started with Bill Gates and then the whole point of it got lost in stock prices.

CruelSummer · 15-11-2020 10:26PM

nofools wrote: »

Is the moral of that story not about fair warning being ignored at their peril in the end?

There are many morals to be taken from the story including materialism and isolation not being a replacement for meaningful human contact, which is the one I was running with in the context of my post.

moonage · 15-11-2020 10:27PM

hmmm wrote: »

5. Level 3 to continue until at least March. Another Covid wave will be building at that time.
6. We're going to be in a race from March to June between the new wave and deploying vaccines. Hopefully the vaccines win the race and the wave subsides. If not, we will need a short and final Level 5 lockdown around the end of March/beginning of April, helped by closing schools for a little while.

A new wave starting in March? That doesn't make any sense.

The current "wave" is due to the seasonal nature of coronaviruses during the colder months.

By March the numbers should be low, largely because of high levels of natural immunity developed in the population.

polesheep · 15-11-2020 10:29PM

FrStone wrote: »

Interesting that you think the vaccine will be given to health care workers first. In the UK, they are planning to roll the vaccine out to nursing home workers and residents before giving it to healthcare workers.

Nursing home workers are healthcare workers. When we hear about cases among hcws people often assume hospital but it is as likely care/nursing home.

walus · 15-11-2020 10:29PM

nofools wrote: »

What was it anyway? We started with Bill Gates and then the whole point of it got lost in stock prices.

Sorry nofools I’m onto the “ Escape to the Chateau” now. Way more exciting than this (or any RTÉ content for that matter).
But I encourage you to track back as you may learn that coming in and shooting from the hip might not work as well as you might think.

hmmm · 15-11-2020 10:29PM

FrStone wrote: »

Interesting that you think the vaccine will be given to health care workers first. In the UK, they are planning to roll the vaccine out to nursing home workers and residents before giving it to healthcare workers.

I don't think I've seen a prioritisation list published, so I'm only assuming health care workers will get it first. I saw that UK list has nursing homes first which is an interesting choice, it'll be interesting to see what we choose to do. The profile of the vaccine will presumably guide us also, one vaccine might work better in older people.

Based on news reports from other EU countries, it sounds like we might hopefully receive around 250,000 doses from Pfizer in January. This would allow us to administer a first dose to a lot of people.

nofools · 15-11-2020 10:31PM

walus wrote: »

Sorry nofools I’m onto the “ Escape to the Chateau” now. Way more exciting than this (or any RTÉ content for that matter).
But I encourage you to track back as you may learn that coming in and shooting from the hip might not work as well as you might think.

You might humbly take your own advice also. Enjoy the show.

average_runner · 15-11-2020 10:32PM

hmmm wrote: »

I don't think I've seen a prioritisation list published, so I'm only assuming health care workers will get it first. I saw that UK list has nursing homes first which is an interesting choice, it'll be interesting to see what we choose to do. The profile of the vaccine will presumably guide us also e.g. one vaccine might work better in older people.

Based on news reports from other EU countries, it sounds like we might hopefully receive around 250,000 doses from Pfizer in January. This would allow us to administer a first dose to a lot of people.

I would expect nursing homes first, as this is where most deaths occurred

FrStone · 15-11-2020 10:34PM

hmmm wrote: »

I don't think I've seen a prioritisation list published, so I'm only assuming health care workers will get it first. I saw that UK list has nursing homes first which is an interesting choice, it'll be interesting to see what we choose to do. The profile of the vaccine will presumably guide us also, one vaccine might work better in older people.

Based on news reports from other EU countries, it sounds like we might hopefully receive around 250,000 doses from Pfizer in January. This would allow us to administer a first dose to a lot of people.

Okay, I honestly have no opinion on how the roll out is prioritised. I don't know enough to comment. I just thought it was interesting.

Penfailed · 15-11-2020 10:51PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I dont want to risk any bans here from mods but said poster has been across multiple threads portraying to have some sort of inside knowledge into decsion making in this country with regards to covid and that their opinion is inferior to that of others.

The last of what I'll say on the matter as I don't want to derail the thread or waste mods time here.

Inferior? Do you mean superior?

stephenjmcd · 15-11-2020 10:52PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Inferior? Do you mean superior?

Jesus yeah how did I type that, must have been still half asleep haha

Penfailed · 15-11-2020 11:20PM

moonage wrote: »

A new wave starting in March? That doesn't make any sense.

The current "wave" is due to the seasonal nature of coronaviruses during the colder months.

By March the numbers should be low, largely because of high levels of natural immunity developed in the population.

The first wave peaked in April.

ShyMets · 15-11-2020 11:41PM

nofools wrote: »

You might humbly take your own advice also. Enjoy the show.

I think I preferred you when you were nox

16-11-2020 12:01AM

Anytime I see M Martin telling us he's got our best interest at heart and we're all in this together, I'd just love to swing the camera to Brendan Gleeson in 2006 late late show mode...

It really is a case of us paying for their lack of absolute investment in health, this is why we are on the toughest lockdowns in Europe. it's as simple as our boat having more holes in it than anyone's, so we must all stick a finger in each hole to stop the country from sinking

give it a read.

https://magill.ie/archive/gleeson-late-late

nofools · 16-11-2020 12:06AM

rusty cole wrote: »

Anytime I see M Martin telling us he's got our best interest at heart and we're all in this together, I'd just love to swing the camera to Brendan Gleeson in 2006 late late show mode...

It really is a case of us paying for their lack of absolute investment in health, this is why we are on the toughest lockdowns in Europe. it's as simple as our boat having more holes in it than anyone's, so we must all stick a finger in each hole to stop the country from sinking

give it a read.

https://magill.ie/archive/gleeson-late-late

It seems that rust bucket full of holes is saving our collective bacon.

JRant · 16-11-2020 12:09AM

redarmy wrote: »

Holohan after footage of street drinking in Dublin widely shared online.

"There are examples of small numbers of people congregating for social purposes and simply ignoring the important public health messages. They are putting our collective progress at risk."

"He's making a list,
He's checking it twice,
He's gonna find out who's locked in or not,
Tony Claus is coming to town"

PTH2009 · 16-11-2020 12:35AM

Because people were bold in Dublin the whole country has to suffer

Secondary school behaviour

hynesie08 · 16-11-2020 12:39AM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Because people were bold around the whole country but this weeks video is from Dublin......

Secondary school behaviour

FYP

bush · 16-11-2020 12:56AM

Is there any chance they go back to regional restrictions at some stage

nofools · 16-11-2020 12:59AM

bush wrote: »

Is there any chance they go back to regional restrictions at some stage

It is all down to collective behaviour. We need to start learning from experience.

BeefeaterHat · 16-11-2020 01:48AM

nofools wrote: »

It is all down to collective behaviour. We need to start learning from experience.

But you'll simply never have 100% compliance. You just don't seem to get there'll always be a minority of people who'll bend or break restrictions. To be honest I think NPHET use examples like the drinkers in Dublin as scapegoats to dodge any tough questions. There certainly does seem to be an attempt by them to play to people's inner snob

PTH2009 · 16-11-2020 01:52AM

no doubt half/almost all of the current Government/NPHET were students/young people once upon a time and wild nights out with lots of drink and company and they need to take into account normal life to an extent

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings