Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Spanish Eyes · 02-11-2020 11:47PM

OK. I’ll take my medicine. So what’s the solution?

tiger_cub · 02-11-2020 11:54PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

https://alcoholireland.ie/dr-tony-holohan-chief-medical-officer-delivers-the-opening-address-at-alcohol-action-irelands-have-we-bottled-it-alcohol-marketing-and-young-people-conference/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/314731/

Christ he’s aged a lot more than 10 years in 10 years!

growleaves · 02-11-2020 11:55PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

OK. I’ll take my medicine. So what’s the solution?

The solution is to make covid restrictions 100% voluntary, end rule by decree and hand power back to the Dáil, and resume normal living and trade.

dalyboy · 03-11-2020 12:05AM

tiger_cub wrote: »

Christ he’s aged a lot more than 10 years in 10 years!

Quote taken from his 2010 diatribe
“ We have examined our existing measures on pricing, enforcement, and support for drinkers who are attempting to quit. We have looked at the examples of best national and international practice and from this, we are developing key action areas.”

I’m surprised he didn’t try and close all alcohol access back in 2010 just to “save” the people trying to quit.
Would follow the same logic as the covid applied strategy of the needs of the few outweighs the needs of the many.

hmmm · 03-11-2020 12:13AM

growleaves wrote: »

The solution is to make covid restrictions 100% voluntary, end rule by decree and hand power back to the Dáil, and resume normal living and trade.

Right well that's not going to happen, so closures it will be unless someone comes up with a better idea.

growleaves · 03-11-2020 12:19AM

hmmm wrote: »

Right well that's not going to happen, so closures it will be unless someone comes up with a better idea.

I can't influence what happens, I can only say what I think.

Back in April when no one was wearing masks I suggested mass voluntary take-up of masks as an alternative to lockdown.

What we got instead was mandatory masks (with the coercion making loads of people hate them and treat them as a joke, when you could've gotten 80-90% compliance through encouragement) and rolling lockdowns.

Anyway we don't do political creativity in this country - even expanding ICU capacity is supposedly impossible yet other countries have done it.

03-11-2020 12:23AM

Last week 349 in hospital, now 303 after another big decrease.

speckle · 03-11-2020 12:26AM

I never sit indoors in a restaurant in Ireland even in Winter. Love being outside watching what is going on. Is there no one else here like that, didnt think it was that unsual as I see plenty of others doing the same.?
That beingsaid when in Dublin I would have fingerless gloves as it is definetly a colder part of Ireland.

MelbourneMan · 03-11-2020 12:26AM

I would still be concerned, about Dublin in particular. It it is important that a general sense that numbers are falling does not mean we can lower our guard. I urge all to maintain maximum diligence in following the guidelines. Any early relaxation will only delay the move back to Level 3 that is our hope and goal.

growleaves · 03-11-2020 12:29AM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I would still be concerned, about Dublin in particular. It it is important that a general sense that numbers are falling does not mean we can lower our guard. I urge all to maintain maximum diligence in following the guidelines. Any early relaxation will only delay the move back to Level 3 that is our hope and goal.

Cinema owners will still be out of business at Level 3. Bars and restaurants will be effectively bled to death. People will still be confined to their own counties.

My hope is for Level 0 but anything above Level 2 is a piss-take.

bush · 03-11-2020 12:30AM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I would still be concerned, about Dublin in particular. It it is important that a general sense that numbers are falling does not mean we can lower our guard. I urge all to maintain maximum diligence in following the guidelines. Any early relaxation will only delay the move back to Level 3 that is our hope and goal.

That you tony?

SusieBlue · 03-11-2020 12:31AM

Isn’t Dublin now 7 weeks into level 3/4, and 2 weeks into level 5, and their cases still haven’t come down a considerable amount?
The compliance must be extremely low there, and no amount of rolling lockdowns and restrictions will help with that.
If there is no public buy in then it’s completely pointless.
Unless their plan is to keep Dublin in level 5 indefinitely until the cases come down there too, which wouldn’t even surprise me at this stage.

FintanMcluskey · 03-11-2020 12:32AM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I would still be concerned, about Dublin in particular. It it is important that a general sense that numbers are falling does not mean we can lower our guard. I urge all to maintain maximum diligence in following the guidelines. Any early relaxation will only delay the move back to Level 3 that is our hope and goal.

Are you a member of Paddygreens immediate family?

bucketybuck · 03-11-2020 12:33AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Ah come on, don’t be so negative. There are solutions that will keep the rain and wind off you while still having heat and great ventilation.

Indeed there are. They are called roofs, and walls.

CalamariFritti wrote: »

wtf are we talking about here?

What is happening is not so bad because we can do outdoor dining? Would you ever listen to yourselves?

Its like some form of stockholm syndrome, people so blinded by covid that they try to justify just the most stupid ****ing shite regardless of how ridiculous it actually is.

Outdoor dining, just look out your ****ing window for gods sake, you think anybody is eating a steak dinner in that wind, cold and rain?

Some people would want to cop on.

growleaves · 03-11-2020 12:36AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Isn’t Dublin now 7 weeks into level 3/4, and 2 weeks into level 5, and their cases still haven’t come down a considerable amount?
The compliance must be extremely low there, and no amount of rolling lockdowns and restrictions will help with that. If there is no public buy in then it’s completely pointless.
Unless they plan on keeping Dublin in level 5 until the cases come down there too, which wouldn’t even surprise me at this stage.

There's still no proof that these restrictions do anything.

The fact is that when there is a respiratory virus everyone will get it.

Theoretical containment methods to control the spread of a virus by controlling people's movement *might* slow the process down a little or they might not.

These methods were invented the day before yesterday, they have no provenance.

MelbourneMan · 03-11-2020 12:38AM

growleaves wrote: »

Cinema owners will still be out of business at Level 3. Bars and restaurants will be effectively bled to death. People will still be confined to their own counties.

My hope is for Level 0 but anything above Level 2 is a piss-take.

Hello. Yes, cinemas must be mothballed, and a suitable economic instrument finalised to enable that, and their eventual reopening. And similar for most bars, restaurants and other group setting leisure industry elements. It will be modified Level 3 as I have explained before, and county restrictions will not apply. Heretofore, there has been attempt at spreading the restrictions as much as possible, but the futility of this strategy is clear to all. Unfortunately a harsher distinction has to be made on the importance of various businesses to the economy and society in general. In short, harsh restriction will be required in the long term for some business models and sectors. In order to enable the greatest portion possible to continue more or less unrestricted and without the damaging open/close cycle that would otherwise result. This rollout will become clearer to all in the coming weeks.

growleaves · 03-11-2020 12:48AM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello. Yes, cinemas must be mothballed, and a suitable economic instrument finalised to enable that, and their eventual reopening. And similar for most bars, restaurants and other group setting leisure industry elements. It will be modified Level 3 as I have explained before, and county restrictions will not apply. Heretofore, there has been attempt at spreading the restrictions as much as possible, but the futility of this strategy is clear to all. Unfortunately a harsher distinction has to be made on the importance of various businesses to the economy and society in general. In short, harsh restriction will be required in the long term for some business models and sectors. In order to enable the greatest portion possible to continue more or less unrestricted and without the damaging open/close cycle that would otherwise result. This rollout will become clearer to all in the coming weeks.

You may just as well say that mandating masks was a futile strategy, or that abrogating Dáil Éireann in favour of dictates from senior ministers was a futile strategy etc.

Your bottomless confidence that another realignment of economy-destroying restrictions is the answer to the failure of the restrictions on their own terms isn't convincing to me.

If you would start at the beginning and go back over your foundational assumptions you might consider that what you think or assume you know isn't necessarily so.

speckle · 03-11-2020 01:01AM

Really just spend some of the millions on grants for retro fitting high end ventillation uv filtration systems would be a start. Open up some new glaziers and window manufacturing and retro fit windows that open in buildings like in other countries. Might help. Lateral creative thinking needed.
ooh by the way most jackets sold in Ireland are not rainproof enough for the splattery really wet Irish rain we get at times. They only do our soft rain. Solution I found was ski gear.

end of the road · 03-11-2020 01:02AM

growleaves wrote: »

I can't influence what happens, I can only say what I think.

Back in April when no one was wearing masks I suggested mass voluntary take-up of masks as an alternative to lockdown.

What we got instead was mandatory masks (with the coercion making loads of people hate them and treat them as a joke, when you could've gotten 80-90% compliance through encouragement) and rolling lockdowns.

Anyway we don't do political creativity in this country - even expanding ICU capacity is supposedly impossible yet other countries have done it.

we tried encouragement and didn't get 80/90% compliance.
hence we had to move to manditary to force the minority to comply.

Deleted User wrote: »

Last week 349 in hospital, now 303 after another big decrease.

exactly, hence temporary short lock downs really do seem to work.

growleaves · 03-11-2020 01:23AM

end of the road wrote: »

we tried encouragement and didn't get 80/90% compliance.
hence we had to move to manditary to force the minority to comply.

They had only started asking people to wear masks and more were starting to do it when it suddenly became a matter of 'you have to'.

Ireland is one of the most stable, with one of the longest traditions of rule of law, of the 200 or so countries in the world.

So the sudden reliance on coercion is incredible.

It used to be universally understood that regimes that had to force people to do things were brittle.

Since when has Irish society been based on pure power?

Desperate stuff.

end of the road · 03-11-2020 01:32AM

growleaves wrote: »

They had only started asking people to wear masks and more were starting to do it when it suddenly became a matter of 'you have to'.

Ireland is one of the most stable, with one of the longest traditions of rule of law, of the 200 or so countries in the world.

So the sudden reliance on coercion is incredible.

It used to be universally understood that regimes that had to force people to do things were brittle.

Since when has Irish society been based on pure power?

Desperate stuff.

it was starting to happen because the government, on the basis of there being not enough compliance, put it out to the public that they were considering fines for the minority who refused comply.
not to mention the anti-maskers who have no problems with masks usually when they protest.

growleaves · 03-11-2020 01:42AM

end of the road wrote: »

it was starting to happen because the government, on the basis of there being not enough compliance, put it out to the public that they were considering fines for the minority who refused comply.
not to mention the anti-maskers who have no problems with masks usually when they protest.

Lol

Whatsisname · 03-11-2020 01:42AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Yep

Whole thing is very confusing

Been thinking about Wuhan lately and from what we know now it must have been spreading there well before December for them to have been hit so hit so hard in late Dec/Jan

We know now this thing builds up pretty slowly and then hits hard

Covid has to be around well over a year now and this reinfections of 6 months has to be bull****

Almost certain I read it was found in old blood samples from November in France. It’s likely been circulating for far longer than we thought. Yet we all continued on as normal from November to March..

dalyboy · 03-11-2020 02:04AM

Whatsisname wrote: »

Almost certain I read it was found in old blood samples from November in France. It’s likely been circulating for far longer than we thought. Yet we all continued on as normal from November to March..

Your right.
It was here about 4 months before the telly told us to panic. Italian footage broadcasted in mid March began “operation headless chicken” throughout the world.

I remember back in December 2019 hearing loads of “serious” influenza cases around my small locality (north Dublin)

There was 3 fatalities of (so called) pneumonia in the space of a few weeks. Amazing coincidence maybe but very unusual.

In a 12-24 months this entire cv19 debacle is going to be thrilling to research once all the variables are known.

Goldengirl · 03-11-2020 02:50AM

JRant wrote: »

That's because the flu can be dangerous to children, unlike COVID

That's true , as far as we know so far .
Good idea for parents to avail of that free vaccine for kids , then is it not?

Goldengirl · 03-11-2020 02:55AM

3xh wrote: »

I saw that being announced a few weeks ago, yes.

That’s a new thing. They didn’t do it last year. You think they only discovered this summer how to make a nasal flu vaccine?! Up until Covid arrived, it just somehow eluded their expertise?!

The experts in Pharma chose not to make it up to now because there was no need for one. Now, off the back of Covid fear, there’s money to be made in marketing the handiness and ‘ease’ in which to take it.

Have you a comment on how it’s disingenuous to link the vaccination of healthy children against MMR with Covid?

And just to clarify your point; not all 2 to 12 year olds are being vaccinated with this free nasal spray. It’s simply being bankrolled by the state for those parents who choose to allow their children to have it.

Don't know why you are ranting about it ?
Are you anti vaxxer ?
Does it upset you that all children can now be protected , for free, from diseases that can make them very sick and in some cases kill ?
I don't get your point really there is so much anger and frustration in there ...what is it you are trying to say ,3xh ?

Goldengirl · 03-11-2020 02:57AM

dalyboy wrote: »

Your right.
It was here about 4 months before the telly told us to panic. Italian footage broadcasted in mid March began “operation headless chicken” throughout the world.

I remember back in December 2019 hearing loads of “serious” influenza cases around my small locality (north Dublin)

There was 3 fatalities of (so called) pneumonia in the space of a few weeks. Amazing coincidence maybe but very unusual.

In a 12-24 months this entire cv19 debacle is going to be thrilling to research once all the variables are known.

So explain what is going on in Belgium at the moment then ?

dalyboy · 03-11-2020 03:22AM

Goldengirl wrote: »

So explain what is going on in Belgium at the moment then ?

Why are you asking for Belgium explained?

Their infection numbers have been nearly 10,000 per day for weeks now and deaths are low comparably 70-100 daily.

Nothing extraordinary happening considering it’s respiratory death season as it’s always been historically

Goldengirl · 03-11-2020 04:00AM

dalyboy wrote: »

Why are you asking for Belgium explained?

Their infection numbers have been nearly 10,000 per day for weeks now and deaths are low comparably 70-100 daily.

Nothing extraordinary happening considering it’s respiratory death season as it’s always been historically

Nothing extraordinary?
https://amp.dw.com/en/belgiums-covid-19-health-care-collapse-it-will-happen-in-10-days/a-55451750

Captain_Crash · 03-11-2020 08:36AM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Nothing extraordinary?
https://amp.dw.com/en/belgiums-covid-19-health-care-collapse-it-will-happen-in-10-days/a-55451750

What you have there is a union member vying for leverage... he may be right of course, but he also may not. He's the head of a union and not in charge of Belgium's health service and he's just expressing his opinion (as a doctor of course).

We've been told similar stuff here about our healthcare system collapsing over and over which hasn't happened, mush of it by doctors also. So lets see what happens in 10 days. It will be interesting for sure.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings