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J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Would you accept that there is a Trans ideology? Or is TERF the only ideology at play?

    No because one is a political group with basically identical opinions and goals (to restrict trans rights) and the other is a group of people with heterogeneous opinions and goals. I would.also say that there is no cis ideology.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Eh there are.numerous examples of transmen in sport. A quick Google will enlighten you on this. The difference is that TERFs do not make a fuss about this as they do with transwomen. It is TERF ideology which centres the debate around trans and cis women.
    I'm already "enlightened" :rolleyes: on that thanks. Note I mentioned it in my post. And like I also noted the ranty M-F Trans were pushing the nonsense train out of the station before any "TERFs" got involved. The latter is a reaction to it.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭mohawk


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Eh there are.numerous examples of transmen in sport. A quick Google will enlighten you on this. The difference is that TERFs do not make a fuss about this as they do with transwomen. It is TERF ideology which centres the debate around trans and cis women.

    The reason women don’t focus on Transmen in Men’s sport is because well firstly it’s up to men to decide on and secondly biological males have an advantage over transmen even when the transman is on testosterone. But go ahead and blame it all on the sinister TERF agenda.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I'm already "enlightened" :rolleyes: on that thanks. Note I mentioned it in my post. And like I also noted the ranty M-F Trans were pushing the nonsense train out of the station before any "TERFs" got involved. The latter is a reaction to it.

    It's the other way around. Trans women have had to stand up for their rights as TERFs have centred the debate around them. I encourage to read a bit more on this topic Wibbs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    mohawk wrote: »
    The reason women don’t focus on Transmen in Men’s sport is because well firstly it’s up to men to decide on and secondly biological males have an advantage over transmen even when the transman is on testosterone. But go ahead and blame it all on the sinister TERF agenda.

    Thankfully you are being honest that it is TERFs who have centred the debate around women. Other people on this thread are trying to pretend otherwise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I'm afraid you're incorrect. There is a clear TERF ideology. TERFs are a specific grouping of people with specific opinions about trans rights.

    They quite cleverly tried to rebrand the word TERF that accurately sums up their views as an insult, and both surprisingly and unfortunately you seem to have fallen for it.


    They’re not though, and instead of suggesting that other people should read up on the use of the term, your opinion on the use of the term suggests that you haven’t. The term is nothing more than an insidious slur used in an effort to humiliate women into submitting to a male dominated perspective of transgender ideology which they are trying to portray as feminism. That’s how they see feminism, and any women who don’t share their opinions are dismissed and denigrated as TERFs. It’s as insidious a paradigm as making out that women who aren’t interested in having sex with men, that there is something wrong with them and they need to question why they aren’t interested in having sex with men and they are being discriminatory and transphobic.

    Women who don’t accept that men are women haven’t tried to rebrand anything, and certainly they haven’t tried to rebrand themselves. They’re still feminists, and it is those people who disagree with them have tried to rebrand women as TERFs. It’s not particularly clever, nor is it surprising that you would use the term to humiliate and silence women who aren’t on board with the male dominated perspective of transgender ideology which they attempt to portray as new wave feminism.

    What’s unfortunate is that how you view women is dependent upon whether or not they agree with you - if they agree that men are women, then you’ll support them, but if they don’t agree that men are women, you’ll attempt to humiliate them into submission by referring to them as TERFs.

    Like I said earlier - with ‘allies’ like that...


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 speelunker22


    The whole trans vs the world thing is simply crazy. I literally had never heard of all of this until a few months ago when JKR was getting all the negative press for her statement.

    In a very naive move I attempted to ask some of those having the "Debate" on Twitter what exactly she had done that was so offensive. A real genuine, please enlighten me question. I was mediately called a TERF and blocked by multiple users. I had to go and then look up what the hell a TERF was!

    Yes I know, my naievety was stunning - looking for honest opinion and information on Twitter!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭mohawk


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Thankfully you are being honest that it is TERFs who have centred the debate around women. Other people on this thread are trying to pretend otherwise.

    I see my post went over your head. Women aren’t under any obligation to centre men. Women are speaking out regarding female sports because female sports directly impacts women.

    Women were traditionally more likely to support Gay rights. Did you ever ask yourself why the group who were most likely to support equality for others all of a sudden started questioning Gender Ideology??

    It appears that every woman that disagrees with you on this thread is automatically a TERF.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 660 ✭✭✭ingalway


    Another poor trans woman, literally fighting for her life against evil TERF women.
    LLMMLL you can donate to get rid of her beard on a GoFund me page. No doubt PantoBliss will make a large donation.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,380 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I'd say her whole fight with the trans activist is the least of Jk Rowlings worries at the moment given the results of the Depp. Given her own history with domestic abuse the pressure will be put on her again to dump Depp from the Harry Potter prequel series. She certainly has had a year to forget.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    They’re not though, and instead of suggesting that other people should read up on the use of the term, your opinion on the use of the term suggests that you haven’t. The term is nothing more than an insidious slur used in an effort to humiliate women into submitting to a male dominated perspective of transgender ideology which they are trying to portray as feminism. That’s how they see feminism, and any women who don’t share their opinions are dismissed and denigrated as TERFs. It’s as insidious a paradigm as making out that women who aren’t interested in having sex with men, that there is something wrong with them and they need to question why they aren’t interested in having sex with men and they are being discriminatory and transphobic.

    Women who don’t accept that men are women haven’t tried to rebrand anything, and certainly they haven’t tried to rebrand themselves. They’re still feminists, and it is those people who disagree with them have tried to rebrand women as TERFs. It’s not particularly clever, nor is it surprising that you would use the term to humiliate and silence women who aren’t on board with the male dominated perspective of transgender ideology which they attempt to portray as new wave feminism.

    What’s unfortunate is that how you view women is dependent upon whether or not they agree with you - if they agree that men are women, then you’ll support them, but if they don’t agree that men are women, you’ll attempt to humiliate them into submission by referring to them as TERFs.

    Like I said earlier - with ‘allies’ like that...

    This is extreme hyperbole. You seem to have been convinced by the PR campaign. Nobody said that TERFs weren't feminists. It's right there in the term. The F.

    But guess what? Groups have subgroups. And these subgroups are often named for convenience. Why would I refer to them as feminists? Most feminists dojt share their opinion so saying something like "I disagree with feminists" doesn't make any sense. However "I disagree with TERFs" tells you exactly who I disagree with. The subgroup of feminists who share trans exclusionary ideas.

    You seem to have a problem with naming subgroups at all which doesn't seem to make any sense. You don't want "trans" people to be mentioned. You don't want subgroups of feminism to be referred to even though you seem quite happy to refer to "feminists" instead of "humans". I don't think your logic has any internal coherence to be honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    mohawk wrote: »
    I see my post went over your head. Women aren’t under any obligation to centre men. Women are speaking out regarding female sports because female sports directly impacts women.

    Women were traditionally more likely to support Gay rights. Did you ever ask yourself why the group who were most likely to support equality for others all of a sudden started questioning Gender Ideology??

    It appears that every woman that disagrees with you on this thread is automatically a TERF.

    No only the people (not women) who display TERF ideas. For example, Graham linehan is a TERF. Oneeyedjack is not. He may disagree with me but does not put forth TERF ideas. Both are male.

    It doesn't matter (for the purpose of this point) why women (and men) are critical of transwomen in womens sports. Because my point is that it is they who have centred the debate around ciswomen and transwomen. They claim it is a misogynistic Enterprise of TRAs when it is clearly they who have done it.

    I'm not saying they have to centre the debate around men. I'm saying their accusations are hypocritical in the extreme. They are responsible for the issues they accuse TRAs of.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I don't think your logic has any internal coherence to be honest.


    I’m not surprised you think I’m being logically inconsistent when your own beliefs can be summed up as you’ll support people who wish to refer to themselves however they wish, but you’ll condemn people who disagree with the idea that people can refer to themselves as they wish.

    You’ll happily refer to feminists who don’t share your beliefs as TERFs, which is you imposing your terms on other people, because they don’t share your belief that men are women.

    I don’t have any issues with subgroups at all, there’s just no PR campaign would ever make me believe that men are women or women are men, or that anyone who holds such beliefs is a feminist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 speelunker22


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    No only the people (not women) who display TERF ideas. For example, Graham linehan is a TERF. Oneeyedjack is not. He may disagree with me but does not put forth TERF ideas. Both are male.

    Can I ask, genuinely, what constitutes a TERF idea?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I don't think your logic has any internal coherence to be honest.
    Logical coherence? You're in absolutely no position to play that card.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Logical coherence? You're in absolutely no position to play that card.

    BOOOOM!!!


    As you would say


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    BOOOOM!!!


    As you would say
    You set em up...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    You set em up...

    It's not really hard to set up such zingers as "you're one to talk".


  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭John Frank Wilson


    Can I ask, genuinely, what constitutes a TERF idea?
    I don't know if I know exactly what I'm talking about - but if I'm reading your question correctly, and I'm understanding the term TERF correctly - I'm going to take a stab - and say:

    Only women can menstruate. Men can not have periods, because they do not have a womb.

    Somebody please correct me if I am wrong... is this considered a TERF idea?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    This is extreme hyperbole. You seem to have been convinced by the PR campaign. Nobody said that TERFs weren't feminists. It's right there in the term. The F.

    But guess what? Groups have subgroups. And these subgroups are often named for convenience. Why would I refer to them as feminists? Most feminists dojt share their opinion so saying something like "I disagree with feminists" doesn't make any sense. However "I disagree with TERFs" tells you exactly who I disagree with. The subgroup of feminists who share trans exclusionary ideas.

    You seem to have a problem with naming subgroups at all which doesn't seem to make any sense. You don't want "trans" people to be mentioned. You don't want subgroups of feminism to be referred to even though you seem quite happy to refer to "feminists" instead of "humans". I don't think your logic has any internal coherence to be honest.

    What is that assertion based on? Or is yet more personal belief masquerading as actual fact?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Can I ask, genuinely, what constitutes a TERF idea?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF


  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭John Frank Wilson


    I don't know if I know exactly what I'm talking about - but if I'm reading your question correctly, and I'm understanding the term TERF correctly - I'm going to take a stab - and say:

    Only women can menstruate. Men can not have periods, because they do not have a womb.

    Somebody please correct me if I am wrong... is this considered a TERF idea?
    I should add, I personally wouldn't consider this to be 'an idea', I would consider this to be a biological fact.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    I don't know if I know exactly what I'm talking about - but if I'm reading your question correctly, and I'm understanding the term TERF correctly - I'm going to take a stab - and say:

    Only women can menstruate. Men can not have periods, because they do not have a womb.

    Somebody please correct me if I am wrong... is this considered a TERF idea?

    Yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 speelunker22


    LLMMLL wrote: »

    So from the last paragraph of that article:

    Feminist philosopher Talia Mae Bettcher argues that, regardless of whether the term is accurately classified as a slur, it "has at least become offensive to those designated by the term", which suggests it might be best to avoid "in case one wants to have a conversation across deep difference".

    So while the term has had quite a journey in it's short history it's now reduced to being a derogatory term that really does not have any place in a reasoned discussion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    So from the last paragraph of that article:

    Feminist philosopher Talia Mae Bettcher argues that, regardless of whether the term is accurately classified as a slur, it "has at least become offensive to those designated by the term", which suggests it might be best to avoid "in case one wants to have a conversation across deep difference".

    So while the term has had quite a journey in it's short history it's now reduced to being a derogatory term that really does not have any place in a reasoned discussion.

    I disagree. I won't give in to the PR campaign they have launched. It's an accurate word that describes their views. If we got rid of TERF and had another word to describe the group they would begin a campaign against that. They don't want to be referrable to as a group who share similar ideas. It's a tactic to shut down discussion of their dodgy ideology. They need to be honest an own the opinions they espouse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    I should add, I personally wouldn't consider this to be 'an idea', I would consider this to be a biological fact.

    Get off LLMMLL’s lawn with your science and FACTS! They have no place there!


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 speelunker22


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I disagree. I won't give in to the PR campaign they have launched. It's an accurate word that describes their views. If we got rid of TERF and had another word to describe the group they would begin a campaign against that. They don't want to be referrable to as a group who share similar ideas. It's a tactic to shut down discussion of their dodgy ideology. They need to be honest an own the opinions they espouse.

    What PR campaign launched by who?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I disagree. I won't give in to the PR campaign they have launched. It's an accurate word that describes their views. If we got rid of TERF and had another word to describe the group they would begin a campaign against that. They don't want to be referrable to as a group who share similar ideas. It's a tactic to shut down discussion of their dodgy ideology. They need to be honest an own the opinions they espouse.

    Dodgy ideology that men aren’t women?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    I don't know if I know exactly what I'm talking about - but if I'm reading your question correctly, and I'm understanding the term TERF correctly - I'm going to take a stab - and say:

    Only women can menstruate. Men can not have periods, because they do not have a womb.

    Somebody please correct me if I am wrong... is this considered a TERF idea?

    Yes. I’ve heard it described as a “TERF talking point”. Because the mantra is ‘transwomen are women’. When you say that transgender women are male, not female, the response tends to be “Yeah but they’re women. We’re not talking about biological sex”. That invites the question of how ‘woman’ and indeed ‘man’ are defined. This is where the woolly reasoning comes in. Usually something about feelz or having a ladybrain. Or no response at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    The continual strategy by extreme gender/queer theory ideologists in appropriating the arguments against their nonsense is well noted.
    The core component of critical theorists is to bend, twist and change the meaning of words to suit their end goal which is political.
    Genuinely dysphoric persons are simply useful tools as were homosexual and bisexual people.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    What PR campaign launched by who?

    Pretty much every TERF on this thread. Some are more vocal against the term than others though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Pretty much every TERF on this thread. Some are more vocal against the term than others though.

    There isn’t a woman alive who requires a PR campaign to assert that men are not women.

    Women aren’t having it and men don’t like that one little bit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    There isn’t a woman alive who requires a PR campaign to assert that men are not women.

    Women aren’t having it and men don’t like that one little bit.

    TERFs are a tiny percentage of women. Don't fall for their tricks that they are representative of women in general at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 speelunker22


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Pretty much every TERF on this thread. Some are more vocal against the term than others though.

    I honestly don't understand! Thanks for answering my questions though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    I honestly don't understand! Thanks for answering my questions though.

    Well basically there is no head TERF who organized the campaign and is funding it.

    What happens is that one TERF claims it is an insult to shut down and derail discussion. Other TERFs see that it's marginally effective and start to do the same. The result is a marginally effective PR campaign against the term.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    TERFs are a tiny percentage of women. Don't fall for their tricks that they are representative of women in general at all.

    What percentage of the population do you think agree with idea that transwomen are real and actual women in the same way that biological females are women?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    What percentage of the population do you think agree with idea that transwomen are real and actual women in the same way that biological females are women?

    >99%


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    What percentage of the population do you think agree with idea that transwomen are real and actual women in the same way that biological females are women?

    About the same amount as the amount of angels you could fit on The top of a pin I’d say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    >99%

    I feel like I am taking crazy pills :)


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    TERFs are a tiny percentage of women. Don't fall for their tricks that they are representative of women in general at all.

    Are you even a tiny bit aware of how bat **** delusional your posts are ?

    There is no shadowy cabal against you or an orchestrated “PR campaign”.

    There are just women who are sick of men wanting to invade our safe spaces; sick of being told that we aren’t women - we are “cervix holders” and “menstruators” and heartily sick of seeing you people tell us that science and biology are not real and the bloke in the dress is a woman.

    It’s pathetic and devious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 speelunker22


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Well basically there is no head TERF who organized the campaign and is funding it.

    What happens is that one TERF claims it is an insult to shut down and derail discussion. Other TERFs see that it's marginally effective and start to do the same. The result is a marginally effective PR campaign against the term.

    But if the term is being used to describe people that hold "anti-trans" views surely the thing to do would be to avoid using it at all so that discussion can be respectful and possibly lead to some level of understanding and acceptance of different viewpoints.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    >99%

    Jesus H Christ.

    You’re deep in the Woke Hole.

    You might enjoy this article.

    https://spectator.us/cisgendered-menstruators-erase-identity/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    I feel like I am taking crazy pills :)

    Better that that some who’ve clearly overdosed on them ...!!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Jesus H Christ.

    You’re deep in the Woke Hole.

    You might enjoy this article.

    https://spectator.us/cisgendered-menstruators-erase-identity/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    Please tell me that ****e is a parody????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    Are you even a tiny bit aware of how bat **** delusional your posts are ?

    There is no shadowy cabal against you or an orchestrated “PR campaign”.

    There are just women who are sick of men wanting to invade our safe spaces; sick of being told that we aren’t women - we are “cervix holders” and “menstruators” and heartily sick of seeing you people tell us that science and biology are not real and the bloke in the dress is a woman.

    It’s pathetic and devious.


    It’s a cult.

    Rigid adherence to absolute f*ckery and derision and bile vomited on anyone with an alternate opinion. Particularly so if the alternate view is held by a woman.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    I feel like I am taking crazy pills :)

    Acceptance is the first stage of recovery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    Please tell me that ****e is a parody????

    It is, but sh1t scary that you’d have to stop and question that it is, in fact, sarcasm.

    Although I think some here would agree with everything in it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    It’s a cult.

    Rigid adherence to absolute f*ckery and derision and bile vomited on anyone with an alternate opinion. Particularly so if the alternate view is held by a woman.

    Considering I haven't insulted anyone in this thread but have been called "pathetic loser", "evil", and "****" I assume you are referring to the TERF viewpoint.

    Look I get that this echo chamber thread was created so TERFs could pretend they have a majority view. I get that it's upsetting to people to realise that they're not actually in the majority.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Pretty much every TERF on this thread. Some are more vocal against the term than others though.
    Strange days indeed when me of all people are lumped in with feminists. Then again if I'm agreeing with feminists and vice versa it must be because of actual obvious as the nose on one's face facts. Though apparently having a y chromosome and a set of meat and two veg isn't a bar to be a women so not so strange. In lala land.

    For me Eskimohunt summed it up in the very first page of this thread:
    As a committed member of the LGBT community, I find what is happening re: gender/sex to be nothing short of appalling.

    You cannot change biological sex. There is no standard for "feeling like a woman". I am a man, and I have no idea what "feeling like a man" is, so how can biologically-born women "feel" this?

    Second, you cannot be born into stereotypes. Long hair, make-up, attraction to pink etc., are all social constructions. You cannot be born into a social construction.

    Third, biological sex is XX and XY. There are some aberrations, such as Kleinfelters, XXY etc., but these are aberrations. The claim here is that biological men or women can switch chromosomal sex. It is not possible.

    Fourth, this is the only trans- category that is taken seriously by society. For example - there are some people who are able-bodied, but believe they were "born disabled". There are some in society now arguing that we should have the State pay for these people to become disabled to meet their "mental image". This is the equivalent of saying to an anorexic person, "you are fine the way you are, it has nothing to do with mental dysphoria".

    There are many trans- men/women who are equally as appalled by what is going on, especially regarding the gender identity question.

    I, as a member of the LGBT community, get completely sidelined. When people speak to me privately about this issue, they agree with me. But they dare not say it in public.

    An extremist identity politics minority have taken over. They are vocal and dangerous and are destroying societal norms as we know them to be.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Jesus H Christ.

    You’re deep in the Woke Hole.

    You might enjoy this article.

    https://spectator.us/cisgendered-menstruators-erase-identity/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    That article is hilarious,

    Cisgender birthing units, Notice they put ‘lady dick’ in inverted commas as a way to question and therefore diminish the validity of my female penis, a menstruator having a miscarriage.
    Honestly, you would not believe how precious these fetus incubators are when it comes to words like ‘Mother’!

    It reads like satire.


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