J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

Gruffalux

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Thats absolute and utter rubbish. The entire raison detre of lgb alliance uk and their "Irish" group based in the UK is hatred of trans people and dismantling legislation of transgender recocgnition in law. They dont give a sh it about LGB people at all. They only give a sh it about dismantling state granted trans tights.

Oh dear. LGB Alliance groups all over the world have been founded by often quite prominent LGB activists and leaders.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

Oh dear. LGB Alliance groups all over the world have been founded by often quite prominent LGB activists and leaders.

That’s true, and that’s fair enough, but what’s also true is that the reason for their alliance is to perpetuate discrimination against people who are transgender. Another one of their manifesto points is that they argue against gender neutral bathroom facilities for example -


We oppose the teaching of gender dentity beliefs in our schools. We are dismayed at the way science is being replaced with unfounded notions. We also note with concern that unsafe practices such as gender neutral toilets are being encouraged by our educational authorities.


What’s that got to do with campaigning for the rights of people who are lesbian, gay or bisexual?

Here’s the policy on gender neutral bathrooms in Ashbourne ETNS -


Gender Neutral Bathrooms in Ashbourne ETNS


Do I agree with it? No.

Am I being forced to enrol my child in the school? No.


It’s entirely at the discretion of the school BOM how they choose to implement their policies. Parents aren’t forced to enrol their children in schools which do not align with their world view -


The State shall not oblige parents in violation of their conscience and lawful preference to send their children to schools established by the State, or to any particular type of school designated by the State.


The existence of gender neutral bathrooms in schools in no way infringes on a person’s right to refuse to use them. Again, they don’t even have to give a reason as to why they refuse to use them. However when they try and deny other people access to the bathroom, then they’d need a better reason than being “dismayed and concerned that unsafe practices are being encouraged”. Their rationale is entirely based upon their own feelings, yet they wish to claim that people’s feelings shouldn’t matter. I dunno how they square that one with themselves, but as long as they’re not interfering with others they’re entitled to think at least whatever they wish.

Dante7

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Thats absolute and utter rubbish. The entire raison detre of lgb alliance uk and their "Irish" group based in the UK is hatred of trans people and dismantling legislation of transgender recocgnition in law. They dont give a sh it about LGB people at all. They only give a sh it about dismantling state granted trans tights.

That's a lie, and a slanderous one at that. Your accusations of transphobia and bigotry are beginning to sound very hollow when you are targeting lesbians who refuse to date people with penises, and when you try to bully women who are concerned about a law that dismantles safeguards for women and children. There is hatred on view alright, but it is not from the LGB Alliance. Your misogyny is on full view for all to see. You just think it is disguised by your wokism.

RWCNT

Dante7 wrote: »

That's a lie, and a slanderous one at that. Your accusations of transphobia and bigotry are beginning to sound very hollow when you are targeting lesbians who refuse to date people with penises, and when you try to bully women who are concerned about a law that dismantles safeguards for women and children. There is hatred on view alright, but it is not from the LGB Alliance. Your misogyny is on full view for all to see. You just think it is disguised by your wokism.

How is Joey doing any of that?

One eyed Jack

Dante7 wrote: »

That's a lie, and a slanderous one at that. Your accusations of transphobia and bigotry are beginning to sound very hollow when you are targeting lesbians who refuse to date people with penises, and when you try to bully women who are concerned about a law that dismantles safeguards for women and children. There is hatred on view alright, but it is not from the LGB Alliance. Your misogyny is on full view for all to see. You just think it is disguised by your wokism.

It’s the LGB Alliance who are attempting to dismantle a law which safeguards women and children from people who align themselves with the LGB Alliance ideology? The LGB Alliance are the people who are trying to disguise their actions against people who are transgender as wokeism.

They’ll have a falling out among themselves again when the rights of people who are lesbian, gay or bisexual are in conflict, as they often are with men’s rights, women’s rights and children’s rights, parents rights, the rights of people who are religious, the rights of people who aren’t religious, etc.

It’s basically an alliance of people with one single shared goal in mind - to perpetuate discrimination against people who are transgender. Their claims that they aren’t attempting to discriminate against people who are transgender simply because they have a few people who are transgender among their ranks who agree with their ideology doesn’t mean they aren’t trying to perpetuate discrimination against people who are transgender.

It amounts to tokenism - “I can’t be racist because I have a black friend” sort of nonsense. That doesn’t mean they aren’t racist, any more than being a woman, or being lesbian or being a man or being gay or transgender doesn’t mean the person isn’t transphobic. If the person is espousing views which are transphobic or bigoted, the cap fits, as uncomfortable and all as that fact may be for them.

Your rationale is the equivalent of JK trying to portray herself as a victim because she claims she was the victim of domestic abuse, like that’s supposed to give her a free pass to punch down on people who are transgender? If someone hits you, it doesn’t give you the right to take it out on someone else who has nothing to do with you, and that’s what JK is doing.

ingalway

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s the LGB Alliance who are attempting to dismantle a law which safeguards women and children from people who align themselves with the LGB Alliance ideology? The LGB Alliance are the people who are trying to disguise their actions against people who are transgender as wokeism.

They’ll have a falling out among themselves again when the rights of people who are lesbian, gay or bisexual are in conflict, as they often are with men’s rights, women’s rights and children’s rights, parents rights, the rights of people who are religious, the rights of people who aren’t religious, etc.

It’s basically an alliance of people with one single shared goal in mind - to perpetuate discrimination against people who are transgender. Their claims that they aren’t attempting to discriminate against people who are transgender simply because they have a few people who are transgender among their ranks who agree with their ideology doesn’t mean they aren’t trying to perpetuate discrimination against people who are transgender.

It amounts to tokenism - “I can’t be racist because I have a black friend” sort of nonsense. That doesn’t mean they aren’t racist, any more than being a woman, or being lesbian or being a man or being gay or transgender doesn’t mean the person isn’t transphobic. If the person is espousing views which are transphobic or bigoted, the cap fits, as uncomfortable and all as that fact may be for them.

Your rationale is the equivalent of JK trying to portray herself as a victim because she claims she was the victim of domestic abuse, like that’s supposed to give her a free pass to punch down on people who are transgender? If someone hits you, it doesn’t give you the right to take it out on someone else who has nothing to do with you, and that’s what JK is doing.

Total rubbish. How can you equate woman/girls who do not want biological males in female single sex spaces and sports as being akin to racism? Not wanting biological males in those spaces is in regard to safety, privacy and with sports, fairness.

If a woman did not want another woman who is black, Asian etc in their space then that is not only racist but totally disgusting. For a woman and young girls not to want a biological male who 'identifies' as a woman - which covers a VERY large spectrum from someone who thinks wearing a dress and makeup is what makes them a woman, even with a beard, let alone never taken a female hormone or had any surgery - then that is women expecting to be taken seriously as women who have rights to single sex spaces and sports. You cannot seriously expect that women should take on good faith that every male who now declares himself female just because he can simply sign a form to get a GENDER Recognition Certificate - an incredibly simple process - should be welcomed. The days where women should just 'Be Kind' and put up with this are gone.
In addition to that calling lesbians transphobic for failing to believe that a biological male can be a female and a lesbian is the most homophobic slur/conversion therapy there is going. Better than any Pray The Gay Away attempt by churches any day.

One eyed Jack

ingalway wrote: »

Total rubbish. How can you equate woman/girls who do not want biological males in female single sex spaces and sports as being akin to racism? Not wanting biological males in those spaces is in regard to safety, privacy and with sports, fairness.

If a woman did not want another woman who is black, Asian etc in their space then that is not only racist but totally disgusting. For a woman and young girls not to want a biological male who 'identifies' as a woman - which covers a VERY large spectrum from someone who thinks wearing a dress and makeup is what makes them a woman, even with a beard, let alone never taken a female hormone or had any surgery - then that is women expecting to be taken seriously as women who have rights to single sex spaces and sports. You cannot seriously expect that women should take on good faith that every male who now declares himself female just because he can simply sign a form to get a GENDER Recognition Certificate - an incredibly simple process - should be welcomed. The days where women should just 'Be Kind' and put up with this are gone.
In addition to that calling lesbians transphobic for failing to believe that a biological male can be a female and a lesbian is the most homophobic slur/conversion therapy there is going. Better than any Pray The Gay Away attempt by churches any day.

I didn’t restrict what I said solely to women saying anything. It doesn’t matter what sex the person is who is arguing against people who are transgender being entitled to equal rights and protection from discrimination. Many more men than women in my experience are opposed to people who are transgender being granted equal rights and protection from discrimination. That’s why I said if a person expresses views which are transphobic, they should expect to be called transphobic.

This was explained to Maya Forstater by the Judge at the Equality Tribunal when she claimed she had been the victim of discrimination on the basis of her beliefs. The Jusge explained to her that there was nothing stopping her from advocating for women’s rights or any of the rest of it, but what she wasn’t entitled to do, and what she didn’t have a right to do, was to infringe on the rights of other people. It wasn’t based upon the fact that she is a woman, it was based upon the fact that nobody has a right to infringe upon the rights of other people.

LGB Alliance are trying the same tack as Maya Forstater - there’s nothing stopping them advocating for the rights of the people they claim to represent. It’s when they try to argue that other people should be subject to ongoing discrimination is where the problem arises, and it’s why they’re unlikely to gain charitable status in the UK, or Ireland for that matter - precisely because they were formed with the specific intent of perpetuating discrimination against a particular group in society.

I don’t believe there are any organisations formed by people with the specific intent of forcing women to have sex with them, but if there were, the same laws would apply to them as applies to LGB Alliance, JK Rowling, Graham Linehan, Maya Forstater, Allison Bailey, etc - they could legitimately be described as a misogynistic organisation, and no Court would support their objectives either, because they were formed with the specific purpose of intimidating and harassing women.

Sir Oxman

No one is saying transexual people should be discriminated against.
The sh1t flinging won't work.

Gruffalux

You spend a lot of time arguing against things people never say, Jack, such as some imaginary suggestions that people with penises ''invariably'' rape, or that people are trying to prevent transgender people from having rights.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

One eyed Jack

Sir Oxman wrote: »

No one is saying transexual people should be discriminated against.
The sh1t flinging won't work.

I’m not flinging shìt at all. Plenty of posters throughout this thread have argued that people who are transgender should be discriminated against by introducing various policies or rejigging existing legislation to do just that.

Gruffalux wrote: »

You spend a lot of time arguing against things people never say, Jack, such as some imaginary suggestions that people with penises ''invariably'' rape, or that people are trying to prevent transgender people from having rights.

That was the implication of suggesting that men if they were granted access to women’s spaces would be doing. It’s not as though men who are of such a mind to commit rape will have thought to themselves “Oh if only it wasn’t against the law for me to enter women’s spaces, damn!”

And people are trying to prevent people who are transgender from having equal rights.

There are some things I agree with people on, such as prohibiting the introduction of hormones for the purposes of enabling children to undergo transition. I still wouldn’t refer to children who are transgender as “baby homosexuals” or argue that “they’re just confused” or argue that “they should be left alone and they’ll grow out of it because statistics suggest that they develop into adulthood as homosexual”, but simply because I think it’s unethical to do that to children, regardless of their sexual orientation which has nothing to do with being transgender.

I also agree that women should have their safe spaces, though I would be of the opinion that I’d tackle the cause of women needing spaces like domestic violence shelters, rather than arguing over who should or shouldn’t have access to those shelters.

And when it comes to sports, for me it would depend upon the type of sports rather than a blanket ban, and looking at the sport overall, as to what could be done to make it more inclusive of everyone, and what are the actual outstanding issues that need to be addressed if one is actually concerned about making athletics safer for everyone so that instead of excluding people on the basis that they are transgender, we also wouldn’t end up with cases like the American gymnastics scandal or cases like Mary Cain.

In short, we have to acknowledge that there’s more to participation in sports, in any sports, than just the appliance of science. There’s a whole lot of money and politics involved too - the ongoing standoff in Connecticut for example where the Dept of Education have threatened to withdraw federal funding worth millions that goes towards enabling black children to enrol in better schools, unless the schools revise their policies on permitting children who are transgender to compete in school sports -


DeVos Gives Connecticut Schools Two Weeks to Ban Trans Athletes or Lose Millions


It’s simply not the case that men, women and children can’t be protected, while at the same time protecting men, women and children who are transgender, especially if one is interested in a fairer society for everyone.

Dante7

This is going well for Panti.

https://twitter.com/PantiBliss/status/1322900409594351618?s=20

Gruffalux

Dante7 wrote: »

This is going well for Panti.

https://twitter.com/PantiBliss/status/1322900409594351618?s=20

One of the replies contains a link to many printed statements collated from various online platforms where people are shamed and insulted for having sex-based preferences. For those who say ''this never happens''.

https://twitter.com/papercutgirl1/status/1322913673606737920?s=20

Smacruairi

Gruffalux wrote: »

One of the replies contains a link to many printed statements collated from various online platforms where people are shamed and insulted for having sex-based preferences. For those who say ''this never happens''.

https://twitter.com/papercutgirl1/status/1322913673606737920?s=20

Oh how the turntables

statesaver

The tweets here are truly astonishing

https://lesbian-rights-nz.org/shame-receipts/

jam_mac_jam

The attitude it never happens as well, whatever about saying it's rare but demanding receipts from lesbians or it never happens. How are you going to have receipts to a conversation.

Why would lesbians say it happens if it doesn't. They just hate trans women so they make up stories. The logic of that.

Also some of the replies with examples are just sickening. I realise that these are extremes and don't represent most trans women but they are sickening.

Eric Cartman

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Thats absolute and utter rubbish. The entire raison detre of lgb alliance uk and their "Irish" group based in the UK is hatred of trans people and dismantling legislation of transgender recocgnition in law. They dont give a sh it about LGB people at all. They only give a sh it about dismantling state granted trans tights.

could you name a group that tackles the very real problem of people advocating for penises to be forced upon lesbians that you do consider as validly advocating for the LGB community ?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

The attitude it never happens as well, whatever about saying it's rare but demanding receipts from lesbians or it never happens. How are you going to have receipts to a conversation.

Why would lesbians say it happens if it doesn't. They just hate trans women so they make up stories. The logic of that.

Also some of the replies with examples are just sickening. I realise that these are extremes and don't represent most trans women but they are sickening.

Exactly. Like, even if you had PMs via, say, a dating app or whatever, I don’t see why you should have to present them to anyone. They’re private. And conversations are generally not recorded so anything said in person is not going to have any trace left.

One eyed Jack

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Also some of the replies with examples are just sickening. I realise that these are extremes and don't represent most trans women but they are sickening.

I’m not defending the idiot, but I think that’s his point - they are the extremes, and don’t represent most people who are transgender, i.e. - it’s not actually so prevalent in society as to be a thing. It happens, but the degree to which it happens is absolutely confined to a very small number of people, and most of it even then is confined to social media.

To be honest, I wouldn’t feel as though I had anything to prove to him, who’s he like? The same idiot who tried to portray Irish society as a hotbed of homophobia because he had a milk carton thrown at him by a couple of fools, pure chicken licken type stuff trying to perpetuate the idea that homophobia is actually more prevalent than it is in Irish society. Same thing - it happens, but not to the degree he was trying to make out.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Thats absolute and utter rubbish. The entire raison detre of lgb alliance uk and their "Irish" group based in the UK is hatred of trans people and dismantling legislation of transgender recocgnition in law. They dont give a sh it about LGB people at all. They only give a sh it about dismantling state granted trans tights.

What’s with all this anti-Brit nonsense? Seriously retrograde, insular stuff. And the concept of Irish people living in the UK seems lost on you and others too.

I’ve seen Irish people in this debate being accused of being British on Twitter and responding in detailed Irish. LOL. No real comeback to that.

ingalway

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

The attitude it never happens as well, whatever about saying it's rare but demanding receipts from lesbians or it never happens. How are you going to have receipts to a conversation.

Why would lesbians say it happens if it doesn't. They just hate trans women so they make up stories. The logic of that.

Also some of the replies with examples are just sickening. I realise that these are extremes and don't represent most trans women but they are sickening.

One of they major problems is that the term 'trans women' is just so broad. Previously a trans woman was someone who had severe dysphoria, they had to be under the care of a Psychologist to discuss at length their issues and agree on the best way forward long term, they would take hormone treatment and live as the person they felt most comfortable as for at least 2 years before progressing to any surgery they felt necessary. Now you only have to fill in an application form, 1 page for the applicant of name, address etc and 1 page for a Peace Commissioner, Notary Public, Commissioner for Oaths or a Solicitor to witness. NOTHING ELSE. You can then legally declare yourself to be of the opposite sex - it actually is gender but gender has been deliberately confused with the term sex to make it seem the same when it definitely is not.
I knew men who went through the old system and yes it was a hard road for them but it helped them establish truly who they were and what they needed and it helped other people to appreciate them for who they were - nobody goes through that without being genuine. Any attention seeker or anyone with dubious motives, or anyone who maybe is really lost and looking for a way to make friends/fit in, can sign a one page form. It makes a mockery of being a genuine trans person and does genuine trans people no favours.

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

One of the replies contains a link to many printed statements collated from various online platforms where people are shamed and insulted for having sex-based preferences. For those who say ''this never happens''.

https://twitter.com/papercutgirl1/status/1322913673606737920?s=20

Eh I didn’t look at all those tweets/blog posts but the few I looked at were in no way harassing or even vaguely intimidating.

If this is the supposed harrassment of lesbians I’ve been hearing about then Panti is right. It’s complete nonsense.

ingalway

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Thats absolute and utter rubbish. The entire raison detre of lgb alliance uk and their "Irish" group based in the UK is hatred of trans people and dismantling legislation of transgender recocgnition in law. They dont give a sh it about LGB people at all. They only give a sh it about dismantling state granted trans tights.

Most, if not all, of the people who support these groups are LGB. People who are sick of TRA's activists hijacking and setting back the ground gained over many years by constructive debate and friendships formed across many divides. TRA's are setting it back by decades and the homophobia is nauseating to many.

jam_mac_jam

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m not defending the idiot, but I think that’s his point - they are the extremes, and don’t represent most people who are transgender, i.e. - it’s not actually so prevalent in society as to be a thing. It happens, but the degree to which it happens is absolutely confined to a very small number of people, and most of it even then is confined to social media.

To be honest, I wouldn’t feel as though I had anything to prove to him, who’s he like? The same idiot who tried to portray Irish society as a hotbed of homophobia because he had a milk carton thrown at him by a couple of fools, pure chicken licken type stuff trying to perpetuate the idea that homophobia is actually more prevalent than it is in Irish society. Same thing - it happens, but not to the degree he was trying to make out.

He should have said that then rather then just basically calling lesbians liars. He said it was bollox. So just completely denying it. He didn't say that it happens but it's an extreme.

I don't know how prevalent it is as I am not a lesbian but if lesbians are saying it's happening then I would be inclined to believe them. I don't really see a motivation for them to lie.

He hasn't replied to all the receipts provided. I'm kind of thinking who the **** does he think he is.

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

Eh I didn’t look at all those tweets/blog posts but the few I looked at were in no way harassing or even vaguely intimidating.

If this is the supposed harrassment of lesbians I’ve been hearing about then Panti is right. It’s complete nonsense.

Your idea and my idea of what is harassment do not remotely tally in that case.

This kind of stuff is often happening online to younger lesbians who are trying to be "good" and PC. They have not yet got the power to rightly tell people to fcuk off.

jam_mac_jam

LLMMLL wrote: »

Eh I didn’t look at all those tweets/blog posts but the few I looked at were in no way harassing or even vaguely intimidating.

If this is the supposed harrassment of lesbians I’ve been hearing about then Panti is right. It’s complete nonsense.

You should read the thread properly then instead of the ones that just reinforce your point of view. There are rape threats listed and horrible abuse is that nonsense also?

ingalway

LLMMLL wrote: »

Eh I didn’t look at all those tweets/blog posts but the few I looked at were in no way harassing or even vaguely intimidating.

If this is the supposed harrassment of lesbians I’ve been hearing about then Panti is right. It’s complete nonsense.

Is this enough for you?
https://twitter.com/Mladydik/status/1283410449975988224?s=20

Or maybe this?
https://twitter.com/tibby17/status/1207786483807113221?s=20

One eyed Jack

ingalway wrote: »

I knew men who went through the old system and yes it was a hard road for them but it helped them establish truly who they were and what they needed and it helped other people to appreciate them for who they were - nobody goes through that without being genuine. Any attention seeker or anyone with dubious motives, or anyone who maybe is really lost and looking for a way to make friends/fit in, can sign a one page form. It makes a mockery of being a genuine trans person and does genuine trans people no favours.

Was this in Ireland? Before 2015 there was no way for people who are transgender to be recognised in Irish law as their preferred gender, it didn’t matter how much they went through to be recognised even by themselves as their preferred gender - the point being that Irish law didn’t recognise them as their preferred gender.

The GRA does people who are transgender plenty of favours, by means of protecting them from being discriminated against by people who determine by their own standards that the person “isn’t genuine”, that’s the whole point of it - they don’t have to answer to anyone else or prove anything to anyone else.

It’s true that it also means people aren’t compelled to undergo medical or surgical interventions in order to be protected from discrimination, but I don’t see that as a bad thing personally. I can see how it might be inconvenient for others that they can’t determine what they think are the genuine cases according to their standards, but that’s those people’s problem, it’s those people who are doing people who are transgender no favours.

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

Your idea and my idea of what is harassment do not remotely tally in that case.

This kind of stuff is often happening online to younger lesbians who are trying to be "good" and PC. They have not yet got the power to rightly tell people to fcuk off.

You’re taking fairly benign behaviour (respectful internet debate) and trying to play one side as victims by plbasically pretending it’s somehow aimed at young, Low-confidence people.

I mean I’m sure many of your posts are hurtful to low-confidence trans people. And I’m sure many of my posts are hurtful to low-confidence TERFs.

If someone can’t handle respectful debate because of their youth or lack of confidence then surely they shouldn’t get involved in internet debates?

BattleCorp

LLMMLL wrote: »

Eh I didn’t look at all those tweets/blog posts but the few I looked at were in no way harassing or even vaguely intimidating.

So you think the tweet I've highlighted below is fine and is in no way harassing or even vaguely intimidating? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I want to rape a TERF to death and chop its body into pieces and leave them for the crows

LLMMLL

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You should read the thread properly then instead of the ones that just reinforce your point of view. There are rape threats listed and horrible abuse is that nonsense also?

I honestly randomly picked 5 from the top sections and 5 from the bottom section and they were all respectful. It was in no way designed to enforce my viewpoint.

Seriously do the same. Pick 5 randomly and tell me how many are abusive or harassing.