J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

LLMMLL

BattleCorp wrote: »

So you think the tweet I've highlighted below is fine and is in no way harassing or even vaguely intimidating? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

That is absolutely harassing but not at all representative of the tweets on that site that are supposedly harassing and abusive.

BattleCorp

LLMMLL wrote: »

I honestly randomly picked 5 from the top sections and 5 from the bottom section and they were all respectful. It was in no way designed to enforce my viewpoint.

Come on, you expect us to believe that?

Look at post #5667. Without even clicking into the twitter feed you can read two posts that talk about rape, cutting up people and slicing throats.

LLMMLL

BattleCorp wrote: »

Come on, you expect us to believe that?

Look at post #5667. Without even clicking into the twitter feed you can read two posts that talk about rape, cutting up people and slicing throats.

Absolutely you should believe it. It’s true.

And searching for a specific post does not prove me wrong. I can easily post a respectful post to counter you.

So do what I did. Pick 5 randomly. How many are abusive rape threats?

One eyed Jack

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

He should have said that then rather then just basically calling lesbians liars. He said it was bollox. So just completely denying it. He didn't say that it happens but it's an extreme.

I don't know how prevalent it is as I am not a lesbian but if lesbians are saying it's happening then I would be inclined to believe them. I don't really see a motivation for them to lie.

He hasn't replied to all the receipts provided. I'm kind of thinking who the **** does he think he is.

I’m not a lesbian either (clearly ), but I’d have a fair idea of how prevalent it is from having seen how this stuff has developed over the last 20 years. It’s happening alright and I’ve known women whom it has happened to that they’ve been accosted and harassed in spaces where they thought they were safe - gay bars and the likes mostly, but I’m not surprised Panto Bliss isn’t aware of it because the last time I was in his bar there was nobody in there :pac:

He’s basically being a dick, nothing new there really.

Gruffalux

To describe what is written in the screen shots as "fairly benign respectful internet debate" is gaslighting, pure and simple.

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

To describe what is written in the screen shots as "fairly benign respectful internet debate" is gaslighting, pure and simple.

Ah “gaslighting” the catchall buzzword to dismiss the points made by anyone who disagrees with you. I’m feeling very gaslit myself right now.

ingalway

LLMMLL wrote: »

I honestly randomly picked 5 from the top sections and 5 from the bottom section and they were all respectful. It was in no way designed to enforce my viewpoint.

Seriously do the same. Pick 5 randomly and tell me how many are abusive or harassing.

How many death/rape threats are acceptable to you then?

suicide_circus

If you accept the premise that transwomen are women, then lesbians have a one way ticket to Girldickville. The truth shall set you free.

Gruffalux

ingalway wrote: »

How many death/rape threats are acceptable to you then?

I think it depends on if you are a good girl or a bad girl.

OMM 0000

suicide_circus wrote: »

If you accept the premise that transwomen are women, then lesbians have a one way ticket to Girldickville. The truth shall set you free.

Transwomen obviously aren't women. They are transwomen.

I don't understand why people are complicating this by pretending there is no difference between a woman who was born a woman, is physically a woman, and experienced her entire life as a woman, and a transwoman who was born a man, decided at some point to live as a woman, and can shoot jizz.

Just call them transwomen. It is accurate and I can't see what's wrong with the term.

This make believe of transwoman = real woman is a battle which can't be won.

LLMMLL

ingalway wrote: »

How many death/rape threats are acceptable to you then?

Bizarre question. It's not about acceptability. It's about the fact that TERFs use the minority of crazy stuff from a small number of Twitter extremists to play the victim and dismiss the respectful debate.

I was honestly expecting a wall of death threats when I opened Gruffalux's link.

The fact that it was mostly normal respectful internet debate shows how skewed and victimy the TERF viewpoint has become.

One eyed Jack

LLMMLL wrote: »

Ah “gaslighting” the catchall buzzword to dismiss the points made by anyone who disagrees with you. I’m feeling very gaslit myself right now.

To be fair, you describe vile and disgusting comments as “respectful debate” and imply that if young girls can’t handle it, they shouldn’t get involved.

They ARE involved, and it’s a good thing that they’re involved because they should be heard as much as anyone else without being shouted down, intimidated or humiliated into silence by hordes of “morally righteous” types who imagine their behaviour is acceptable because they’re being led by groupthink.

I can remember before when we had a conversation about the metoo movement and you suggested that the amount of women who were sharing their stories online was sufficient evidence of an endemic issue in society, yet when there are now women who are sharing their stories online of being subjected to vile abuse, suddenly you’re able to hand wave them away and suggest that if they can’t handle it they shouldn’t get involved?

Bloody hell like.

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

I think it depends on if you are a good girl or a bad girl.

That's actually one of the tweets I saw in the bottom section. Can you explain to me who it was abusing/harassing?

LLMMLL

One eyed Jack wrote: »

To be fair, you describe vile and disgusting comments as “respectful debate” and imply that if young girls can’t handle it, they shouldn’t get involved.

They ARE involved, and it’s a good thing that they’re involved because they should be heard as much as anyone else without being shouted down, intimidated or humiliated into silence by hordes of “morally righteous” types who imagine their behaviour is acceptable because they’re being led by groupthink.

I can remember before when we had a conversation about the metoo movement and you suggested that the amount of women who were sharing their stories online was sufficient evidence of an endemic issue in society, yet when there are now women who are sharing their stories online of being subjected to vile abuse, suddenly you’re able to hand wave them away and suggest that if they can’t handle it they shouldn’t get involved?

Bloody hell like.

I'm surprised that you would jump to the weird conclusion that I was talking about "vile and disgusting" comments Jack. I'll copy and paste some of the random comments I pick now:

Actually I can't copy and paste as they're screenshots.

So I genuinely randomly picked the 4th row and 2nd column tweet From Gruffalux's link.

Go look at it. You think that's "vile and disgusting"? Seriously?

Heres Johnny

Is there transgenderism in the wider animal kingdom or is it a human only phenomenon?

LLMMLL

Oneeyedjack: Do you consider this "vile and disgusting"? Do you consider it to be abusive and harassing?

One eyed Jack

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'm surprised that you would jump to the weird conclusion that I was talking about "vile and disgusting" comments Jack. I'll copy and paste some of the random comments I pick now:

Actually I can't copy and paste as they're screenshots.

So I genuinely randomly picked the 4th row and 2nd column tweet From Gruffalux's link.

Go look at it. You think that's "vile and disgusting"? Seriously?

I’m surprised that you’re not aware of the vile and disgusting comments that are aimed at young girls. I don’t even have to look at Gruffalox’s link to know exactly what’s being said to young girls by adults who I would expect absolutely should know better.

It’s no different than what I said earlier about just because someone hits you doesn’t mean you have the right to take it out on anyone else, and that’s what these adults are doing - someone insulted them so they go looking to take it out on people who have nothing to do with them and frankly want nothing to do with them. When they’re told by young girls that they want nothing to do with them, then they show their true colours.

LLMMLL

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m surprised that you’re not aware of the vile and disgusting comments that are aimed at young girls. I don’t even have to look at Gruffalox’s link to know exactly what’s being said to young girls by adults who I would expect absolutely should know better.

It’s no different than what I said earlier about just because someone hits you doesn’t mean you have the right to take it out on anyone else, and that’s what these adults are doing - someone insulted them so they go looking to take it out on people who have nothing to do with them and frankly want nothing to do with them. When they’re told by young girls that they want nothing to do with them, then they show their true colours.

Ah here you haven't even looked at the link and accuse me of supporting "vile and disgusting" comments against young lesbians?

And now say you don't even need to look at the link?

Maybe you feel you're an authority on what is being said to young lesbians on Twitter but maybe check a link that someone is referring to before you incorrectly accuse them supporting vile comments.

If you're so confident there should be no issue checking the link and pointing out the harassing comments I supposedly support.

Or are you refusing to check the link to save face?

One eyed Jack

LLMMLL wrote: »

Oneeyedjack: Do you consider this "vile and disgusting"? Do you consider it to be abusive and harassing?

Yes I do, it’s carefully couched gaslighting to suggest that they’re not the person who has an issue, it’s anyone who doesn’t want to have sex with them is the person who has issues. It’s no different than a fella walking up to a girl in a bar and if he’s rejected he gets all pissy as though she’s the person who needs to examine why she doesn’t want to have sex with an asshole.

Gruffalux

Examples from the first bits from the link that some considered benign and respectful...

''I'm sure you are not personally violently transmisogynistic but the same things that lead you to ask these questions are the things that lead to trans women's deaths. This sexuality related disgust is shared by men who treat trans women as sex objects. This disgust is by far the most common cause of their brutal murders.''

''When the overwhelming majority of cis dykes date and fcuk cis women, but are not open to, or are even turned off by the idea of dating or fcuking transwomen, how is that not transphobic? ....How are you not a hypocrite?''

''If you're a woman who only likes vaginas, and literally nothing else influences your sexual orientation, then you're not a lesbian. You are a very weird and creepy bisexual.''

''If you exclude trans women you are not a lesbian, you are a vagina fetishist.''

''Stop disguising your transphobia as a 'preference'. No one fcuking dates someone solely because of their genitals, fcuk all the way off.''

''Lesbians excluding transwomen from their potential partners is not a ''boundary''...doing so is exerting power through privilege and therefore transmisogynistic violence. ..She is transmisogynistic trash..''

LLMMLL

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes I do, it’s carefully couched gaslighting to suggest that they’re not the person who has an issue, it’s anyone who doesn’t want to have sex with them is the person who has issues. It’s no different than a fella walking up to a girl in a bar and if he’s rejected he gets all pissy as though she’s the person who needs to examine why she doesn’t want to have sex with an asshole.

At no point does it say anything about anyone refusing to sleep with them. It simply says that saying that trans people or black people or fat people are unattractive may come from socialization and explicitly says nobody has to sleep with anyone they don't want to.

Now you may disagree with that but it's hardly vile and disgusting.

It's pretty clear you assumed the link contained abusive death threat tweets and instead of admitting you should have checked the link are trying to cover yourself.

One eyed Jack

LLMMLL wrote: »

Ah here you haven't even looked at the link and accuse me of supporting "vile and disgusting" comments against young lesbians?

And now say you don't even need to look at the link?

Maybe you feel you're an authority on what is being said to young lesbians on Twitter but maybe check a link that someone is referring to before you incorrectly accuse them supporting vile comments.

If you're so confident there should be no issue checking the link and pointing out the harassing comments I supposedly support.

Or are you refusing to check the link to save face?

I looked at the link? The point I’m making is that I didn’t need to look at the link because I am well aware, even without being an authority on the subject, of what idiots like Panto Bliss are saying to young girls on Twitter - the idea that anyone has to prove anything to him is literally him making himself an authority which they have to prove a point to and he will act as adjudicator.

It’s unfortunate that there are some young women who feel they have to prove something to him, but they shouldn’t have to. In just the same way as he’s hand waving it away as “doesn’t happen”, you’re doing the very same thing, instead of acknowledging that it does happen.

I’ve already said too that while it’s confined mainly to social media, I have known of circumstances where it has happened to women in places where they imagined they were safe, that they were accosted and harassed by men. They shouldn’t have had to go as far as telling those men to piss off when they didn’t get the hint the first time that the young women weren’t interested.

The difference of course is that I don’t feel a need to prove it.

jam_mac_jam

There is literally a workshop linked on the "cotton ceiling"

Loads of comments on how lesbians are transphobic or terfs. Which may be dismissed as just a name but at the same time it's also punch a terf, kill a terf.

They are called this because they don't like penis. They cannot help not liking penis any more than I can like vagina.

This may be extreme and may not happen very often but it quite clearly is happening. Its not nonsense.

What possible motivation would lesbians have for making this up.

ingalway

LLMMLL wrote: »

Oneeyedjack: Do you consider this "vile and disgusting"? Do you consider it to be abusive and harassing?

It's lesbian baiting.
It never takes long for the "if you exclude trans women, black women, women of size" blah blah blah then you are transphobic and a simpleton because you just don't understand you have been conned into believing in biological sex "rather than looking deeper and realize that our attraction are very much environmental"

Black women, disabled women, fat women, tall women, short women are all WOMEN. Trans women are biological males.

If you believe same sex attraction is 'environmental' then you are homophobic. Are you homophobic?
BTW - Intersex people have NOTHING to do with the trans debate and it is appalling that they get dragged into to suit the agenda. Intersex/DSD may have genital anomalies but they are most definitely male or female.
Non-binary? - Give me strength.

One eyed Jack

LLMMLL wrote: »

At no point does it say anything about anyone refusing to sleep with them. It simply says that saying that trans people or black people or fat people are unattractive may come from socialization and explicitly says nobody has to sleep with anyone they don't want to.

Now you may disagree with that but it's hardly vile and disgusting.

It's pretty clear you assumed the link contained abusive death threat tweets and instead of admitting you should have checked the link are trying to cover yourself.

No, I disagree with your playing it down as though it’s nothing more than a benign thought exercise for anyone who isn’t attracted to people who are transgender.

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

Examples from the first bits from the link that some considered benign and respectful...

Ok I'll deal with a few (that you selectively picked, I challenge you to pick 5 randomly which I know you won't as we both know they'll be perfectly fine and not support your point at all)

''I'm sure you are not personally violently transmisogynistic but the same things that lead you to ask these questions are the things that lead to trans women's deaths. This sexuality related disgust is shared by men who treat trans women as sex objects. This disgust is by far the most common cause of their brutal murders.''

This is abusive? It's not even disrespectful. It's a bit hyperbolic but I could post probably 100 posts from this boards thread that accuse TRAs of causing all manner of horrible things to young girls/ciswomen

''When the overwhelming majority of cis dykes date and fcuk cis women, but are not open to, or are even turned off by the idea of dating or fcuking transwomen, how is that not transphobic? ....How are you not a hypocrite?''

Saying someone is a hypocrite is not abusive or harrassment.

''If you're a woman who only likes vaginas, and literally nothing else influences your sexual orientation, then you're not a lesbian. You are a very weird and creepy bisexual.''

This is pointing out the frankly strange argument TERFs make that focus solely on genitals. And yes, it is weird if the only thing you are attracted to in a person is their genitals.

''If you exclude trans women you are not a lesbian, you are a vagina fetishist.''

I agree with you this one is disrespectful.

''Stop disguising your transphobia as a 'preference'. No one fcuking dates someone solely because of their genitals, fcuk all the way off.''

Yes disrespectful because of the language used.

So out of the non-random selectively picked selection there are maybe 2 bad ones?

Can I just point out that in the few days before I took my last break from this thread I was called a pathetic loser by one person, evil by another person, and a number of words that were starred out by another.

LLMMLL

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No, I disagree with your playing it down as though it’s nothing more than a benign thought exercise for anyone who isn’t attracted to people who are transgender.

That's fine. But we both know that's not what you were referring to as vile and disgusting.

LLMMLL

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

There is literally a workshop linked on the "cotton ceiling"

Loads of comments on how lesbians are transphobic or terfs. Which may be dismissed as just a name but at the same time it's also punch a terf, kill a terf.

They are called this because they don't like penis. They cannot help not liking penis any more than I can like vagina.

This may be extreme and may not happen very often but it quite clearly is happening. Its not nonsense.

What possible motivation would lesbians have for making this up.

Nobody said they were making anything up.

But you are trying to give the impression it's widespread and not just some crazies on Twitter.

I know a LOT of lesbians and none of them have faced it as an issue.

And there used to be a lesbian on this thread who was heavily involved in specifically lesbian rights groups and as far as I know she hadn't encountered this issue either.

Smacruairi

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nobody said they were making anything up.

But you are trying to give the impression it's widespread and not just some crazies on Twitter.

It's enough that many many many people are leaving quotes and accounts under that Panti tweet. So if you're saying they are just a minority, fine, but then that means that we are dismissing every twitter opinion going forward, no #metoo etc

jam_mac_jam

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nobody said they were making anything up.

But you are trying to give the impression it's widespread and not just some crazies on Twitter.

I know a LOT of lesbians and none of them have faced it as an issue.

And there used to be a lesbian on this thread who was heavily involved in specifically lesbian rights groups and as far as I know she hadn't encountered this issue either.

I have actually said more then once that it's extreme I at no point said it's widespread.

I said above that i don't know how prevalent it is as I am not a lesbian so I don't know.

Don't put words into my mouth. Either you are getting me mixed up with someone else or you are lying.

My only arguement is with those like Panti saying it's nonsense. It's clearly not nonsense and saying it is is saying that lesbians are making this up.