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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #5252
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The situation developing in Europe proves without a shadow of a doubt this country was and is absolutely correct to be proactive.

    We have the situation restrained. This is not the case on the continent which now faces drastic action to try bring the situation under control. And it's everywhere you look.

    This country is actually an outlier with the pace of growth being restricted.

    That is due to the correct and proportionate measures being in place that are evidently having an effect.

    Numbers decreasing before we even entered level 5.

    6 week lockdown is beyond disproportionate.

    NPHET didn’t even want nationwide level 3 a few weeks ago.

    Biggest decrease in hospitalisations since May today.


  • #5253
    Dickie10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    think we need to keep the hammer down lets keep level 5 for another 3 weeks and get numbers down


  • #5254
    uli84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭uli84


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    think we need to keep the hammer down lets keep level 5 for another 3 weeks and get numbers down

    In the name of what?


  • #5255
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    JRant wrote: »
    So Cervical Tony is "concerned" about people returning home for Christmas and is going to look into it.
    Drop the cervical screening discussion - take it to Current Affairs - this forum is for Coronavirus issues


  • #5256
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    Beasty wrote: »
    Drop the cervical screening discussion - take it to Current Affairs - this forum is for Coronavirus issues


    How exactly is that not relevant?

    Surely his past actions are important to keep in mind when we are putting our faith in this man to make the correct decisions for the country?


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  • #5257
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The situation developing in Europe proves without a shadow of a doubt this country was and is absolutely correct to be proactive.

    We have the situation restrained. This is not the case on the continent which now faces drastic action to try bring the situation under control. And it's everywhere you look.

    This country is actually an outlier with the pace of growth being restricted.

    That is due to the correct and proportionate measures being in place that are evidently having an effect.

    Why is it proof ? Our neighbours in Europe have far higher populations, more densely populated urban centres, and are all connected by land in a largely freely-moving continent. People keep sneering over at places like England and seem to apparently forget that London alone has more than double our entire population squeezed into one urban centre. We are not comparable, at least not on any helpful scale.

    Those countries also originally pursued stringent lockdowns and have seen deaths tick upwards. Sweden has not seen a resurgence in deaths — and yet for some reason people still try to find ways to backslap our own policy by comparing us to countries doing (purportedly) worse rather than looking at a country like Sweden which is doing better.


  • #5258
    MelbourneMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭MelbourneMan


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    All the experts in the thread tonight. It is such a treat to read such a meeting of the minds :pac:

    Hello. I cannot say that I agree with you, and must take issue. While I have tried to tidy up some of the gross misunderstandings, and frankly, in some cases downright dangerous suggestions and opinions being aired here, there still seems to be a high number of people still contesting or doubting information being given to them for their, and the public, good. It is quite disheartening.


  • #5259
    MelbourneMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭MelbourneMan


    RobitTV wrote: »
    Screw going back to Level 3. Enough is enough. Rising case numbers are meaningless as 80% (probably over 90%) of people will experience zero symptoms and they will have to be tested to know if they even have contracted the virus.

    Let people make their own personal judgment, if people want a lockdown then they can have one at home and they can shield themselves away from the rest of society.

    If people are healthy and have no other serious conditions, then why can't they continue moving forward with their lives?

    - Protect care homes (There should be rapid antigen testing daily in care homes)
    - Shield the elderly and vulnerable and they should be given access to testing at home which they can carry out often
    - Invest heavily in ICU equipment, instead they have done nothing since March to sort that out
    - If the vaccine is effective and safe then the most vulnerable groups in society should be given early access to it
    - Introduce testing at all airports so people can travel safely

    Hello, while understandably desireable, the picture you paint is unfortunately impractical and unrealistic.
    1 and 2 are simply not possible to do effectively.
    3 will have no practical effect on level of restriction and the effects of the virus
    4 there is no vaccine at present, so you speak of a hypothetical future
    5 This has limited effectiveness, will not ensure safe travel (yes, it will make it saf-er), and will not permit a return to the air passenger numbers we had previously.

    All have been considered and studied in detail.


  • #5260
    MelbourneMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭MelbourneMan


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    How exactly is that not relevant?

    Surely his past actions are important to keep in mind when we are putting our faith in this man to make the correct decisions for the country?

    Hello. It is quite a different matter, and would request that you drop this tone. Dr Holohan is one of a large team charged with providing expert medical advice in very difficult circumstances. This type of personal sniping is unhelpful.


  • #5261
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    MelbourneMan wrote: »
    Hello. I cannot say that I agree with you, and must take issue. While I have tried to tidy up some of the gross misunderstandings, and frankly, in some cases downright dangerous suggestions and opinions being aired here, there still seems to be a high number of people still contesting or doubting information being given to them for their, and the public, good. It is quite disheartening.

    Data, is that you?

    Doubting information that was purportedly for our own good has saved the human race on many an occasion.


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  • #5262
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    How exactly is that not relevant?

    Surely his past actions are important to keep in mind when we are putting our faith in this man to make the correct decisions for the country?

    Absolutely- and you can see shine through in his abrasive style/manner, poorly thought out rash judgements. Shades of his past incompetence shining through as vividly as before.


  • #5263
    dalyboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    MelbourneMan wrote: »
    Hello. It is quite a different matter, and would request that you drop this tone. Dr Holohan is one of a large team charged with providing expert medical advice in very difficult circumstances. This type of personal sniping is unhelpful.

    Yeah , say that to the families of those tragic women who died on his watch.


  • #5264
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,598 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    ArthurDayne wrote: »
    Why is it proof ? Our neighbours in Europe have far higher populations, more densely populated urban centres, and are all connected by land in a largely freely-moving continent. People keep sneering over at places like England and seem to apparently forget that London alone has more than double our entire population squeezed into one urban centre. We are not comparable, at least not on any helpful scale.

    Those countries also originally pursued stringent lockdowns and have seen deaths tick upwards. Sweden has not seen a resurgence in deaths — and yet for some reason people still try to find ways to backslap our own policy by comparing us to countries doing (purportedly) worse rather than looking at a country like Sweden which is doing better.


    Sweden`s new cases increased by 70% last week from the previous week. Today they reported 2,128 new cases and 9 deaths.
    Last week from 140,000 tests (per capita 70% less than here) they had 8,500 confirmed cases. A positivity of 6%

    They are also around two weeks behind us in new rising cases.
    So no, Sweden is not doing better than here even with almost half their population living in single occupancy households.


  • #5265
    Hrududu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Hrududu


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    If you get a flu - there are not nonsymptomatic carriers. You get it all - runny nose, sneezing, coughing, temperature, headache, muscle and joint pain
    That’s not true

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practice/three-quarters-of-people-with-flu-have-no-symptoms/


  • #5266
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Sweden`s new cases increased by 70% last week from the previous week. Today they reported 2,128 new cases and 9 deaths.
    Last week from 140,000 tests (per capita 70% less than here) they had 8,500 confirmed cases. A positivity of 6%

    They are also around two weeks behind us in new rising cases.
    So no, Sweden is not doing better than here even with almost half their population living in single occupancy households.

    It continues to amaze me when people wave case numbers around as if they were some barometer of success or failure. A rise in cases in winter was as inevitable as the night going dark — it is how those cases translate into actual proper damage that is the barometer.

    Sweden’s death numbers continue to be low and they are doing this all within a framework of workable restrictions which they have engendered long term and sustainable goodwill towards. They are also not being overwhelmed as many claimed they would be.

    I’m finding what you’re saying largely self-defeating because (1) honing in on case numbers isn’t really indicative of anything really; (2) the deaths remain low and (3) you seem to ignore the fact that Sweden has found at least some degree of balance between keeping deaths low and maintaining the sustainability of their policy.


  • #5267
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Hrududu wrote: »
    That’s not true

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practice/three-quarters-of-people-with-flu-have-no-symptoms/

    This further strengthen the point that flu is worse than covid.
    Only third did not experience symptoms and did not felt symptoms. With covid there are about 60% of similarly "lucky" people. And that is only what we know so far. In fact it could be much more since we do not have any idea how many people already had it without even knowing.


  • #5268
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Sweden`s new cases increased by 70% last week from the previous week. Today they reported 2,128 new cases and 9 deaths.
    Last week from 140,000 tests (per capita 70% less than here) they had 8,500 confirmed cases. A positivity of 6%

    They are also around two weeks behind us in new rising cases.
    So no, Sweden is not doing better than here even with almost half their population living in single occupancy households.

    And yet people can go out and about in Sweden and get on with their lives. These lockdown are bull****.


  • #5269
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    This further strengthen the point that flu is worse than covid.
    Only third did not experience symptoms and did not felt symptoms. With covid there are about 60% of similarly "lucky" people. And that is only what we know so far. In fact it could be much more since we do not have any idea how many people already had it without even knowing.

    We have a vaccine for the flu. The flu mutated every year so we get a new one. One that provides a reasonable level of herd immunity and defense.

    This means only a tiny proportion get the flu every year. If there was no flu vaccine and the flu spread like wildfire I think we would consider the flu a lot worse than it is.

    Luckily our medical technology have handled the club's risk to society. Some get it every year but the relatively flu as the vaccines break the chains of transmission in an efficient basis

    We will get there with coronavirus too.

    As to if the coronavirus is worse than the unmitigated flu I'd consider it somewhat worse.


  • #5270
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    We have a vaccine for the flu. The flu mutated every year so we get a new one. One that provides a reasonable level of herd immunity and defense.

    This means only a tiny proportion get the flu every year. If there was no flu vaccine and the flu spread like wildfire I think we would consider the flu a lot worse than it is.

    Luckily our medical technology have handled the club's risk to society. Some get it every year but the relatively flu as the vaccines break the chains of transmission in an efficient basis

    We will get there with coronavirus too.

    As to if the coronavirus is worse than the unmitigated flu I'd consider it somewhat worse.

    Absolute rubbish, I have not had the flu vaccine in 30!years and never had a flu either.


  • #5271
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Lundstram wrote: »
    The teachers are hilarious. Got full pay to sit on their arses for 6 months now they reckon they're some sort of heroes putting their lives at risk. Give me a fcuking break. These people wouldn't survive 5 minutes in a private sector job. If they're so scared, why don't they quit?

    I hope they're first for an income haircut when the inevitable tightening of the belts budget comes in October, although I think we'll see an emergency budget in early/mid 2021.

    The obnoxious and arrogant posts from some on here really makes this thread unlikeable at times. It’s a pity as there is a legitimate discussion needed around restrictions & their impact.
    Firstly last weekend some posters suggesting all those over 60 or some similar age should just remove themselves from society so ‘they could get on with their lives’.
    And now this uneducated aggressive attitude towards the situation in schools from the hurlers on the ditch. And don’t even get me started on the public v private rubbish nonsense. Most people in the Private sector I know earn far more than teachers. They don’t work as hard either as they’ve time to be on boards all day posting rubbish.


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  • #5272
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,095 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    The obnoxious and arrogant posts from some on here really makes this thread unlikeable at times. It’s a pity as there is a legitimate discussion needed around restrictions & their impact.
    Firstly last weekend some posters suggesting all those over 60 or some similar age should just remove themselves from society to ‘they could get on with their lives’.
    And now this uneducated aggressive attitude towards the situation in schools from the hurlers on the ditch. And don’t even get me started on the public v private rubbish nonsense. Most people in the Private sector I know earn far more than teachers. They don’t work as hard either as they’ve time to be on boards all day posting rubbish.

    I'm suprised at your new tune. You used to be a big supporter of Lundstram/Fintan/JacDaniel and the other hardcore relaxers


  • #5273
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    pjohnson wrote: »
    I'm suprised at your new tune. You used to be a big supporter of Lundstram/Fintan/JacDaniel and the other hardcore relaxers

    I may agree with many of their opinions re restrictions & their impact. But I don’t blindly support any one poster & paddle my own canoe!


  • #5274
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,273 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    pjohnson wrote: »
    I'm suprised at your new tune. You used to be a big supporter of Lundstram/Fintan/JacDaniel and the other hardcore relaxers

    Here's the thing. It's possible to agree with someone on one issue, but disagree with them on another.

    This is why nonsense like "hard-core relaxers" and other such labels (in a simultaneous attempt to dismiss or belittle what they actually said) are pointless, and say more about the labeller and the weakness of their own position.

    It's the same as those who respond to a lengthy multi-point post with a "witty" one-liner to gain favour from like minded sorts, rather than address or counter the actual points raised.


  • #5275
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    The obnoxious and arrogant posts from some on here really makes this thread unlikeable at times. It’s a pity as there is a legitimate discussion needed around restrictions & their impact.
    Firstly last weekend some posters suggesting all those over 60 or some similar age should just remove themselves from society to ‘they could get on with their lives’.
    And now this uneducated aggressive attitude towards the situation in schools from the hurlers on the ditch. And don’t even get me started on the public v private rubbish nonsense. Most people in the Private sector I know earn far more than teachers. They don’t work as hard either as they’ve time to be on boards all day posting rubbish.

    Hurlers on the ditch? I’ve already given you my situation would you care to comment on it? Or does it not suit your argument? I heard some clown on the radio yesterday talking about “danger money” for teachers. DANGER MONEY!!! If you teachers stop teaching because of this would you be willing to make up the time lost later on? Say during the summer holidays? Hello? Hello?


  • #5276
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    As to if the coronavirus is worse than the unmitigated flu I'd consider it somewhat worse.


    Considering more people died "with" flu in 2017 and 2018 than "with" covid in 2020 (up to May in each year), I'd consider an unmitigated spread of flu a helluva lot worse.


  • #5277
    KennisWhale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭KennisWhale


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Noticed in a few threads recently that it is completely verboten to suggest in any way that lockdown and its related measures may be causing a degradation in peoples mental states.

    It seems to be one of those "don't mention the war" things, but whether Tony Holohan likes it or not, sooner or later we will all have to face up to the fact that there are insidious, indirect consequences to these measures that quite possibly could kill more people in the long run than covid will.

    Yes, the doomers are obsessed with putting down any suggestion of mental illness.

    The cult of covid and those that forget it is not harmful to the vast majority of us, follow TH and the government restrictions almost religiously. It would be a good psychology or sociology study to compare the covid doomers to those that followed the Catholic Church back in the day. God is the data and TH is the Bishop delivering his own interpretation of the message while the "butter wouldn't melt" politicians just want to look good in front of the Bishop but they are taking from the collection tray when he's not looking. Then you have the masses just buying into the message rather than the data and cannot discuss or debate, preferring to shut down anyone who criticises their little covid bubble.


  • #5278
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,095 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Here's the thing. It's possible to agree with someone on one issue, but disagree with them on another.

    This is why nonsense like "hard-core relaxers" and other such labels (in a simultaneous attempt to dismiss or belittle what they actually said) are pointless, and say more about the labeller and the weakness of their own position.

    It's the same as those who respond to a lengthy multi-point post with a "witty" one-liner to gain favour from like minded sorts, rather than address or counter the actual points raised.

    So like the eejits who ramble(d) about "scare mongering" "sheep" "doomers" or "lockdown larry" etc? Its a very good change to see because all of ye sure as hell love(d) all that infantile rubbish and flocked to it. Nice to see people possibly coming to their senses anyway or at least grown ups starting to get involved.


  • #5279
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    I suspect this thing with the teachers is about them having their noses put out of joint by the nurses and doctors. They see them getting all the hashtags and hero status bull**** and are thinking but, but what about us? Don’t we get a piece of that juicy action? Our “lives are at risk“ too you know.


  • #5280
    KennisWhale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭KennisWhale


    Whilst not a teacher, this striking would be a two fingers to the government for their nonsense restrictions and I support it for that reason.


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  • #5281
    Don't Chute!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    pjohnson wrote: »
    So like the eejits who ramble(d) about "scare mongering" "sheep" "doomers" or "lockdown larry" etc? Its a very good change to see because all of ye sure as hell love(d) all that infantile rubbish and flocked to it. Nice to see people possibly coming to their senses anyway or at least grown ups starting to get involved.

    Grown ups? Oh the irony.


This discussion has been closed.
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