Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Gael23

Given that a vaccine is very unlikely to prevent infection, is this our life now?

Gael23

Gael23 wrote: »

Given that a vaccine is very unlikely to prevent infection, is this our life now?

No. Our money will run out.
By the sounds of it, we can keep this going for probably 2021. But not beyond.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

No. Our money will run out.
By the sounds of it, we can keep this going for probably 2021. But not beyond.

It will be dependant on Ireland’s access to money.

The money has already “run out” months ago, hence why we are billions in depth.

So a point will come next year where there is no access to money, the exchequer has haemorrhaged its last cent and the virtue signalling will come to an abrupt halt.

dubdaymo

KennisWhale wrote: »

Yes, the doomers are obsessed with putting down any suggestion of mental illness.

The cult of covid and those that forget it is not harmful to the vast majority of us, follow TH and the government restrictions almost religiously. It would be a good psychology or sociology study to compare the covid doomers to those that followed the Catholic Church back in the day. God is the data and TH is the Bishop delivering his own interpretation of the message while the "butter wouldn't melt" politicians just want to look good in front of the Bishop but they are taking from the collection tray when he's not looking. Then you have the masses just buying into the message rather than the data and cannot discuss or debate, preferring to shut down anyone who criticises their little covid bubble.

An excellent analogy.

A few short weeks ago NPHET (minus one man) was not sure if we should go from 2 to 3. Then, thanks to a loose cannon, all hell broke loose.

One man is destroying not just the country but the people.

He was elected by nobody.

He has bulldozed and bullied his way to deciding your and my present and future.

He has terrorised the elected Govt. who are too cowardly to face up to him and are now nothing more than an outlet to convey his orders to the citizens.

He has a small loyal band of disciples who continually spread fear and dread on all media every single day.

He has propaganda broadcasting non-stop between programmes and during ad-breaks on TV, embedded onto our TV screens and on Radio.

He has brought in restrictions on our lives that are riddled with inconsistencies and make no sense to anyone who has a modicum of common sense.

He ridicules with arrogance those who express a different opinion.

He has a separate very sad family problem that is bound to be affecting his judgment and mind.

How have we allowed this to happen? One man running our lives.

Is there anyone out there who has the capacity and where-with-all to take this man on?

RobitTV

If this does continue past 2021 and the measures remain extreme and excessive then a new political movement will have to be created in Ireland to fight to regain our previous normality, freedom, liberty, society, economy, jobs, income, businesses and so on...

By mid 2021 people will be sick and tired of this whole situation. If they think people will put up with this 'new normal' nonsense then they can think again!

Tacitus Kilgore

dubdaymo wrote: »

An excellent analogy.

A few short weeks ago NPHET (minus one man) was not sure if we should go from 2 to 3. Then, thanks to a loose cannon, all hell broke loose.

One man is destroying not just the country but the people.

He was elected by nobody.

He has bulldozed and bullied his way to deciding your and my present and future.

He has terrorised the elected Govt. who are too cowardly to face up to him and are now nothing more than an outlet to convey his orders to the citizens.

He has a small loyal band of disciples who continually spread fear and dread on all media every single day.

He has propaganda broadcasting non-stop between programmes and during ad-breaks on TV, embedded onto our TV screens and on Radio.

He has brought in restrictions on our lives that are riddled with inconsistencies and make no sense to anyone who has a modicum of common sense.

He ridicules with arrogance those who express a different opinion.

He has a separate very sad family problem that is bound to be affecting his judgment and mind.

How have we allowed this to happen? One man running our lives.

Is there anyone out there who has the capacity and where-with-all to take this man on?

Yea, cos we're very much an outlier in how we're dealing with Covid... It's all one guys fault.


Go away with your fake news/propaganda/rabble rousing crap.


It's actually hilarious how you can refer to "doomers" then post this.

Captain_Crash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll take the word of the medical professionals over a randomer on a message board, no offence.

This is something that I think needs discussion. I’ve seen that comment hundreds of times from people since this began, and I can understand that being a persons natural reaction!

However, these predictions and models are based on multitudes of data, amounts you or I would find difficult to compile coherently!

If I’ve a pain in my head, I’ll go to a gp! But if I have tons and tons of medical data that require calculation, I won’t go to a medical professional... I’ll go to a data analyst. Someone who’s profession it is to take data and compile it in a readable format!

Infact, the HSE already spend millions on external consultants for all sorts of work including data analysis, because they are very aware that this work requires a specialist, and a medical professional is not one when it comes to data!

The word of a medical professional (and randomer on the internet) is worth nothing if the data being used for such predictions is being used wrong.

Case in point, we know NPHET didn’t include T-cell immunity in their predictions, so from the very get go the predictive data NPHET provided to government was miscalculated! All because they didn’t (that we’re aware of) employ a specialist to compile the data they had available and form an accurate prediction, despite the HSE routinely using such experts!

I think, and please correct me if anyone has an example, but to date not one of NPHET’s predictions has actually turned out to be in anyway accurate!

Gael23

RobitTV wrote: »

If this does continue past 2021 and the measures remain extreme and excessive then a new political movement will have to be created in Ireland to fight to regain our previous normality, freedom, liberty, society, economy, jobs, income, businesses and so on...

By mid 2021 people will be sick and tired of this whole situation. If they think people will put up with this 'new normal' nonsense then they can think again!

Very much agree

walus

patnor1011 wrote: »

I agree that it is not good to generalize and say all of them are bad or scared or something. In the same spirit, not all of them are good and working their ass off.

Of course, they want schools closed. It saves them money on heating and extra costs to run in the current time. They all will be on full pay and only a few of them will be really working.

How do I know this? I have 2 kids and I have seen what happened during the first lockdown. It was a total disgrace. Some teachers literally disappeared and the only job they did was to fire off email twice a week "study chapter this and that". Some others who managed to run zoom classes spent most of the time chatting about covid.
It seems that teachers do not realize that when teaching moves online they will be under bigger scrutiny as parents would see how often and what is being done and so far it was nothing to be excited about.

Schools should remain open and if teachers think their life is in danger they can think about changing careers. There are plenty of new teachers graduating every year and they can fill in with ease.

Do teachers have any sense of duty these days? They used to have in my days.

Tacitus Kilgore

walus wrote: »

Do teachers have any sense of duty these days? They used to have in my days.

Not since "the man" (probably unelected i'd say) told them they can't beat the shit out of the kids anymore.

walus

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello, while understandably desireable, the picture you paint is unfortunately impractical and unrealistic.
1 and 2 are simply not possible to do effectively.
3 will have no practical effect on level of restriction and the effects of the virus
4 there is no vaccine at present, so you speak of a hypothetical future
5 This has limited effectiveness, will not ensure safe travel (yes, it will make it saf-er), and will not permit a return to the air passenger numbers we had previously.

All have been considered and studied in detail.

Why? Everyone says that yet no one knows why. Could you explain?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It was the biggest decrease in hospital numbers yesterday since May. There was even an article on RTE that said "Slight" decrease. Still the biggest since May.

So Monday had the highest number of hospitalisations since May, and Wednesday had the highest decrease in hospital numbers since May. If only we were able to draw a logical conclusion from these two points.

Using all these extra people getting out of hospital as a benchmark for reducing restrictions is beyond ridiculous.

mikekerry

RobitTV wrote: »

If this does continue past 2021 and the measures remain extreme and excessive then a new political movement will have to be created in Ireland to fight to regain our previous normality, freedom, liberty, society, economy, jobs, income, businesses and so on...

By mid 2021 people will be sick and tired of this whole situation. If they think people will put up with this 'new normal' nonsense then they can think again!

Mid 2021!, I doubt most people will be able to handle much more by the time this bloody lockdown is over.
only 1 week down feels like a month.

weldoninhio

dubdaymo wrote: »

An excellent analogy.

A few short weeks ago NPHET (minus one man) was not sure if we should go from 2 to 3. Then, thanks to a loose cannon, all hell broke loose.

One man is destroying not just the country but the people.

He was elected by nobody.

He has bulldozed and bullied his way to deciding your and my present and future.

He has terrorised the elected Govt. who are too cowardly to face up to him and are now nothing more than an outlet to convey his orders to the citizens.

He has a small loyal band of disciples who continually spread fear and dread on all media every single day.

He has propaganda broadcasting non-stop between programmes and during ad-breaks on TV, embedded onto our TV screens and on Radio.

He has brought in restrictions on our lives that are riddled with inconsistencies and make no sense to anyone who has a modicum of common sense.

He ridicules with arrogance those who express a different opinion.

He has a separate very sad family problem that is bound to be affecting his judgment and mind.

How have we allowed this to happen? One man running our lives.

Is there anyone out there who has the capacity and where-with-all to take this man on?

The CervicalCheck Tribunal hopefully.

dubdaymo

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Yea, cos we're very much an outlier in how we're dealing with Covid... It's all one guys fault.
Go away with your fake news/propaganda/rabble rousing crap.
It's actually hilarious how you can refer to "doomers" then post this.

If you live in Dublin you can walk up to 5km daily for 6 weeks breathing in traffic fumes all the way there and back.

But you can't go for walks on Dollymount Strand, Howth and Dun Laoire piers, the Poolbeg lighthouse, Sandymount, the deserted beaches south of Bray, the vast spaces of the Dublin and Wicklow Mountains.

Our country cousins all over, even those living near or in the middle of nowhere are similarly restricted to 5km.

Personally, I don't play golf but I have elderly neighbours and friends who have been playing several times a week under the very strict golf Covid rules for months and now they're banned.

Just some of the utter, utter nonsense and stupidity that typifies that man, your new Pope.

charlie14

ArthurDayne wrote: »

It continues to amaze me when people wave case numbers around as if they were some barometer of success or failure. A rise in cases in winter was as inevitable as the night going dark — it is how those cases translate into actual proper damage that is the barometer.

Sweden’s death numbers continue to be low and they are doing this all within a framework of workable restrictions which they have engendered long term and sustainable goodwill towards. They are also not being overwhelmed as many claimed they would be.

I’m finding what you’re saying largely self-defeating because (1) honing in on case numbers isn’t really indicative of anything really; (2) the deaths remain low and (3) you seem to ignore the fact that Sweden has found at least some degree of balance between keeping deaths low and maintaining the sustainability of their policy.

It also continues to amaze me that some people associate a particular day`s deaths with that days new confirmed cases.
There is absolutely no correlation between the two for any given day.
It is often weeks after new cases are confirmed before deaths occur.
The level of those death are determined by who is infected. Elderly or vulnerable and the ratio will be higher, young and healthy it will be lower.

During the last wave Sweden`s ratio of deaths to confirmed cases was over 6%. Twice what it was in Ireland and many multiples of it`s Scandinavian neighbours.
Sweden`s new case numbers did not begin to rise until two weeks after Ireland (or indeed most of the rest of Europe, similar to their first wave) but their numbers are now going through the roof. Last weeks 8,500 new cases were 70% higher than the previous week, yesterday there were over 2,000 new cases and today they have 3,257 and 7 deaths.
Your original contention was that Sweden were doing much better than here in relation to their numbers when it is patently clear they are not and per capita their deaths are 60% greater than here. And that is with us most likely over reporting and them under reporting.


You mention the sustainability of Sweden`s policy.
Sweden`s policy was based on achieving herd immunity and doing better than those that used lockdown economically.
From their own antibody test results that was shown to be a fallacy. Their rising numbers just confirm that.

They have even recognised that themselves now having done a side deal with AstraZeneca to begin vaccinations early next year using 8 million vaccines, with orders placed for a further 18 million from other companies. There isn`t even agreement in Sweden now on their policy nationally with two of their regions Uppsala and now Skane going with their own lockdowns.
Economically they are not doing any better than here either. Last quarter their GDP results were 40% worse than Ireland`s

Edit: As off today three other regions Stockholm, Vastra Gotland and Ostergotland have joined Uppsala and Skane in their lockdown approach attempting to curb the spread of infections.

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

Economically they are not doing any better than here either. Last quarter their GDP results were 40% worse than Ireland`s

Charlie your not the only one who continues to use GDP as a metric for Ireland’s economic performance. With Ireland GDP is imaginary. A useless metric.

GNP and job losses are the most accurate assessment.

And it’s not favourable when compared to others

Tacitus Kilgore

dubdaymo wrote: »

If you live in Dublin you can walk up to 5km daily for 6 weeks breathing in traffic fumes all the way there and back.

But you can't go for walks on Dollymount Strand, Howth and Dun Laoire piers, the Poolbeg lighthouse, Sandymount, the deserted beaches south of Bray, the vast spaces of the Dublin and Wicklow Mountains.

Our country cousins all over, even those living near or in the middle of nowhere are similarly restricted to 5km.

Personally, I don't play golf but I have elderly neighbours and friends who have been playing several times a week under the very strict golf Covid rules for months and now they're banned.

Just some of the utter, utter nonsense and stupidity that typifies that man, your new Pope.

WTF does any of this have to do with my post regarding your quoted post?


5km limit is kinda silly alright, but I can accept it makes sense - kinda. Would love to hear what's your workable alternative?


Rest of your post, and the one I quoted originally are just a load of words stacked together in a form of nonsensical hysterical outrage tbh.

normanoffside

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Luke O Neill talking pure snot again with Pat Kenny.

Reckons a wet nose/more mucus helps prevent the virus

Keeping watered plants indoors could help stop the spread of Corona Virus

https://www.newstalk.com/news/luke-oneill-keeping-plants-indoors-help-stop-spread-coronavirus-1097427

Gael23

Will we ever see concerts/football matches/conferences again?

Tacitus Kilgore

Gael23 wrote: »

Will we ever see concerts/football matches/conferences again?

Yes

Gael23

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Yes

Under draconian conditions though

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Charlie your not the only one who continues to use GDP as a metric for Ireland’s economic performance. With Ireland GDP is imaginary. A useless metric.

GNP and job losses are the most accurate assessment.

And it’s not favourable when compared to others

That`s quite funny Fintan. Early on those that favoured the Swedish strategy were big into predicting how well Sweden`s GDP was going to perform in comparison to Ireland. Soon as the figures came out we were lucky some were not drown from all the attempts at changing horse in mid-stream


We can use unemployment figures as well if you like. Or even consumer spending.
Bloomberg, in May I believe it was, put the true unemployment figure in Sweden at 17% when furlough was factored in.
As late as July one of Sweden`s largest banks, Svenska Handelsbanken AB, in its report on the Swedish economy put the figure at 19%
Consumer spending in Sweden and its neighbour Denmark during Denmark`s lockdown showed no discernible differences.

FintanMcluskey

Gael23 wrote: »

Will we ever see concerts/football matches/conferences again?

Very hard to know.

It’s going to take leadership and an anti hysteria media campaign to undo the damage that’s been done.

Hopefully within the next 10 years concerts may return

AUDI20

dubdaymo wrote: »

An excellent analogy.

A few short weeks ago NPHET (minus one man) was not sure if we should go from 2 to 3. Then, thanks to a loose cannon, all hell broke loose.

One man is destroying not just the country but the people.

He was elected by nobody.

He has bulldozed and bullied his way to deciding your and my present and future.

He has terrorised the elected Govt. who are too cowardly to face up to him and are now nothing more than an outlet to convey his orders to the citizens.

He has a small loyal band of disciples who continually spread fear and dread on all media every single day.

He has propaganda broadcasting non-stop between programmes and during ad-breaks on TV, embedded onto our TV screens and on Radio.

He has brought in restrictions on our lives that are riddled with inconsistencies and make no sense to anyone who has a modicum of common sense.

He ridicules with arrogance those who express a different opinion.

He has a separate very sad family problem that is bound to be affecting his judgment and mind.

How have we allowed this to happen? One man running our lives.

Is there anyone out there who has the capacity and where-with-all to take this man on?

I take it you won't be sending Tony a Christmas card so:D

normanoffside

Michael McNamara on Prime Time tonight

Tacitus Kilgore

Gael23 wrote: »

Under draconian conditions though

Ah, it's an agenda you have - not a question.


Carry on

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So Monday had the highest number of hospitalisations since May, and Wednesday had the highest decrease in hospital numbers since May. If only we were able to draw a logical conclusion from these two points.

Using all these extra people getting out of hospital as a benchmark for reducing restrictions is beyond ridiculous.

At the end of the day, people are very quick to shout at the top of their lungs when there is a new “record “ number of cases. Most cases since May, most deaths since May etc.

Not many point out the record lows. It’s only exciting when it’s hysterical I guess.

There was figures the other day suggesting that 45% of hospitalisations weren’t admitted due to Covid, but tested positive while in hospital or caught it in hospital.

Strange how those figures don’t make front page news and are extremely hard to find.

Tacitus Kilgore

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Very hard to know.

It’s going to take leadership and an anti hysteria media campaign to undo the damage that’s been done.

Hopefully within the next 10 years concerts may return

:pac:


Posts this, and reckons others are being hysterical. :pac:




Alright Fintan, you're the poster who insisted that giving people a vote was anti democratic aren't you?

bucketybuck

Gael23 wrote: »

Under draconian conditions though

Its worth remembering that all the virtue signalling nonsense we hear now, it won't actually last.

To paraphrase a professor from an interview last week, "there needs to be a grown up discussion about death". When the money runs out and all the cliches start sounding very shallow, then there will be a seachange in how society as a whole considers this virus and you will see a lot more practicality in the discussions.

Its just a shame that we will waste another year faffing about before that point comes, but it will come, and you will see a lot of things start creeping back to normal.