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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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  • #4772
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 999 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    MelbourneMan wrote: »
    Those with this view must nevertheless acknowledge, that in any country, those most expert and charged with providing epidemiological and health service advice, are unlikely to be minimum wage. If the cohort supporting the observation you make were truly able to judge the quality of the decisions, they probably wouldnt be in low wage, in unstable, or non-wfh employment in the first place. Recognition that decsions are being made for their benefit, whether they understand them or not, would be to the benefit of all, and no simply carping and dismissing the informed experts because they are in permanent well paid jobs.

    You have a low opinion of the intelligence of those financially disadvantaged by our governments knee-jerk restrictions. I suspect this intellectual snobbery is still prevalent in many sections of our society.

    Conversely, I would question the intelligence of those that support restrictions. Do you truly judge the decisions made since May (most of those lacking in cohesion and forethought, several u-turns and general bumbling, not to mention atrocious communication of same) as ‘quality decisions’?

    Fortunately this goes beyond those financial considerations - devastating as they are to some, and even those higher beings in well-paid permanent jobs are finding themselves baffled by the policy making.


  • #4773
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    MelbourneMan wrote: »
    Those with this view must nevertheless acknowledge, that in any country, those most expert and charged with providing epidemiological and health service advice, are unlikely to be minimum wage. If the cohort supporting the observation you make were truly able to judge the quality of the decisions, they probably wouldnt be in low wage, in unstable, or non-wfh employment in the first place. Recognition that decsions are being made for their benefit, whether they understand them or not, would be to the benefit of all, and no simply carping and dismissing the informed experts because they are in permanent well paid jobs.

    You could just have said, "Let them eat cake".


  • #4774
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    The problem with a lot of the protests is that they keep getting written off as simply a bunch of anti mask loons, and the fact that they are objecting restrictions and not masks is conveniently left out of all media reports.

    I don’t like the masks, I’m not convinced they work, but they are not a massive inconvenience to me so I will wear them to placate others if it means I can have some bit of normality in my life.
    I think most other people are the same, the masks aren’t really the biggest issue for them. I would have no interest in attending an anti mask protest.

    However the restrictions are causing me massive inconvenience, disruption and anxiety for my future so at this point I would be interested in attending one. But there doesn’t seem to be anyone protesting against them, just the masks.
    It’s a clever manipulation trick done by the media to discredit the protests.
    Anyone non the wiser would look at that and say ‘for gods sake, it’s just a mask!’ without knowing they are actually fighting against something much bigger and more important than that.


  • #4775
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,852 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    I was at our local shopping centre yesterday and the retail park this morning.

    I must say it's hearting to see the number of businesses that have self-defined themselves as hardware stores and remained open.

    The shoe shop, the curtain shop, the record/video store - all open.:D

    I hope people go out and support their local businesses. They have been targeted and destroyed by Holohan and his band of 39 nodding dogs and our cowardly politicians, without a shred of evidence that they are contributing to the spread of covid.

    It's time all right-minded people who value democratic freedoms and who reject the constant hysteria-narrative, make a stand against this nonsense.


  • #4776
    Open the Pubs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 396 ✭✭Open the Pubs


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    The problem with a lot of the protests is that they keep getting written off as simply a bunch of anti mask loons, and the fact that they are objecting restrictions and not masks is conveniently left out of all media reports.

    I don’t like the masks, I’m not convinced they work, but they are not a massive inconvenience to me so I will wear them to placate others if it means I can have some bit of normality in my life.
    I think most other people are the same, the masks aren’t really the buggiest issue for them. I would have no interest in attending an anti mask protest.

    However the restrictions are causing me massive inconvenience, disruption and anxiety for my future so at this point I would be interested in attending one. But there doesn’t seem to be anyone protesting against them, just the masks.
    It’s a clever manipulation trick done by the media to discredit the protests.
    Anyone non the wiser would look at that and say ‘for gods sake, it’s just a mask!’ without knowing they are actually fighting against something much bigger and more important than that.
    Yes it's textbook media manipulation and propaganda. They are conflating the mask stuff with anti lockdown to diminish them.

    Unfortunately as we are a small country our media ecosystem is dominated by IT, Irish Independent and RTE who all read from same hymn sheet. Then you have small comedy outfits like Journal.ie who cheerlead the harshest restrictions possible and peddle fake fact checks to discredit opposition.


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  • #4777
    dubdaymo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭dubdaymo


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I hope people go out and support their local businesses. They have been targeted and destroyed by Holohan and his band of 39 nodding dogs and our cowardly politicians, without a shred of evidence that they are contributing to the spread of covid.

    It's time all right-minded people who value democratic freedoms and who reject the constant hysteria-narrative, make a stand against this nonsense.
    Sadly, we are up against it when you hear that, on the Friday night of a Bank Holiday Weekend, Lockdown Guru Tony was paraded on an RTE light entertainment programme. That's bad enough in itself but a lot worse when you further hear that there were people who actually tuned in to watch him. There's only one word for that - masochism.


  • #4778
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,852 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    dubdaymo wrote: »
    Sadly, we are up against it when you hear that, on the Friday night of a Bank Holiday Weekend, Lockdown Guru Tony was paraded on an RTE light entertainment programme. That's bad enough in itself but a lot worse when you further hear that there were people who actually tuned in to watch him. There's only one word for that - masochism.

    TBH, the kind of people who tune in weekly to the LLS to listen to Tubirdy and his weekly misery-porn are likely the same people breathlessly waiting for the numbers at 6pm everyday. I have no interest in their opinions.

    It's far more disappointing that the younger generation, who have been most adversely impacted, have for the most part, stood placidly by while their jobs, travel abilities, social outlets and future prosperity and prospects have been sacrificed on the alter of political expediency.

    Surely some of them have figured out the con-job that is being pulled on them?

    When you see apathy like this and the rise of populist parties like SF, it does not bode well for the future of this country.




    .


  • #4779
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    So NPHET have now acknowledged that level 3 was working! But still recommended a move to level 5? Baffling!

    https://www.newstalk.com/news/peoples-behaviour-changing-relation-covid-19-says-nphet-member-1095602


  • #4780
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    dubdaymo wrote: »
    Sadly, we are up against it when you hear that, on the Friday night of a Bank Holiday Weekend, Lockdown Guru Tony was paraded on an RTE light entertainment programme. That's bad enough in itself but a lot worse when you further hear that there were people who actually tuned in to watch him. There's only one word for that - masochism.

    I didn't watch it and didn't see any massive trends on social media in relation to it, just the usual Late Late hashtag. I don't think it got major traction and many social media comments were from individuals fed up at what RTE and Late Late are peddling, for example Ryan and Dr Holohan remain unaffected by the measures they're promoting.
    A Friday night talk show is usually for entertainers to promote a new book, album, movie, etc. Now it's to promote Stay at Home/I'll close down your businesses strategy. A relative did say Ryan tried the 'Leo bad man' for daring to question poor Tony's lockdown everything approach - nauseating.


  • #4781
    Elessar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭Elessar


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    So NPHET have now acknowledged that level 3 was working! But still recommended a move to level 5? Baffling!

    https://www.newstalk.com/news/peoples-behaviour-changing-relation-covid-19-says-nphet-member-1095602

    Christ on a bike. "Peoples behaviour is changing" is political speak for "level 3 was working and level 5 wasn't actually necessary". But framed in a still-pro lockdown fashion.

    The pro-lockdown national media bias couldn't possibly countenance questioning our precious lockdowns.


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  • #4782
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    TBH, the kind of people who tune in weekly to the LLS to listen to Tubirdy and his weekly misery-porn are likely the same people breathlessly waiting for the numbers at 6pm everyday. I have no interest in their opinions.

    The LLS thread on the TV forum shows absolutely no support for Tony any more

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058124805


  • #4783
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,474 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    normanoffside wrote: »
    The LLS thread on the TV forum shows absolutely no support for Tony any more

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058124805

    I am allergic to Tubs at the best of times but as someone said before, we've experienced 'Long Tubridy' since the start of Covid.

    I wont be watching any LLS show interview but Tony needs to cop the fcuk on. Who does he think he is? Do you damn job and stop trying to be a celebrity.
    Was he asked about his treatment of the cervical check women?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #4784
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,672 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    I didn't watch it and didn't see any massive trends on social media in relation to it, just the usual Late Late hashtag. I don't think it got major traction and many social media comments were from individuals fed up at what RTE and Late Late are peddling, for example Ryan and Dr Holohan remain unaffected by the measures they're promoting.
    A Friday night talk show is usually for entertainers to promote a new book, album, movie, etc. Now it's to promote Stay at Home/I'll close down your businesses strategy. A relative did say Ryan tried the 'Leo bad man' for daring to question poor Tony's lockdown everything approach - nauseating.

    Didn’t watch it. I suspected it would be more blowing smoke up his bum and sounds like I’m right.

    Not one RTE presenter has pulled him up over his gross inaccurate statement during the week that 100 less cases means 20 less deaths. That’s blatantly fear mongering a fake statistic


  • #4785
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,244 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    The problem with a lot of the protests is that they keep getting written off as simply a bunch of anti mask loons, and the fact that they are objecting restrictions and not masks is conveniently left out of all media reports.

    I don’t like the masks, I’m not convinced they work, but they are not a massive inconvenience to me so I will wear them to placate others if it means I can have some bit of normality in my life.
    I think most other people are the same, the masks aren’t really the biggest issue for them. I would have no interest in attending an anti mask protest.

    However the restrictions are causing me massive inconvenience, disruption and anxiety for my future so at this point I would be interested in attending one. But there doesn’t seem to be anyone protesting against them, just the masks.
    It’s a clever manipulation trick done by the media to discredit the protests.
    Anyone non the wiser would look at that and say ‘for gods sake, it’s just a mask!’ without knowing they are actually fighting against something much bigger and more important than that.

    Indeed... masks are a symbol of the much bigger issue - the restrictions and control over the population and businesses that have been imposed in mostly a knee-jerk fashion based almost solely on the "advice" of a bunch of academics and HSE bureaucrats more concerned with covering their ass for the mismanagement of the health service than anything else.

    This is why they have been latched onto by both "sides" - on one hand they're a very easy way to show how compliant you are and attack anyone who isn't, on the other they're a daily reminder of the unnecessary fear and enforced social isolation being spread on this issue.

    I've stopped wearing them and gone with the visors. Like you I don't think they work given how people aren't wearing them properly, aren't maintaining/washing them properly, and constantly fidgeting with them. I'll go with the observed evidence of shop workers wearing visors for months now and yet no outbreaks reported - just as there weren't before the laws were brought in (and another reason why making some shops but not others close is ridiculous nonsense that only benefits the bigger diversified chain stores)

    I think they'll be very hard pressed to justify another 2 weeks when the 1 month review comes up, and they'll find it even harder after Christmas/New Year to get any sort of buy in at all from the general population if they try this nonsense again. That's when we WILL see people on the streets (Irish Water protests style) I reckon, just as how many are already (like they did then) refusing to engage with the whole mess anyway.


  • #4786
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    The dissent is growing this time- haven’t once heard the lie “we’re all in this together ...” this time round. Tubridy prob says it but I’m not watching him
    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-to-reverse-our-thinking-on-lockdown-1.4389456?mode=amp


  • #4787
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »
    I am allergic to Tubs at the best of times but as someone said before, we've experienced 'Long Tubridy' since the start of Covid.

    I wont be watching any LLS show interview but Tony needs to cop the fcuk on. Who does he think he is? Do you damn job and stop trying to be a celebrity.
    Was he asked about his treatment of the cervical check women?

    The thing is, he's not trying to be a celebrity. It's the media that are pushing him as a celebrity. If he's being invited on to the likes of the LLS, surely he'll be thinking, "What better way to get the message out there."

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, And So I Watch You From Afar



  • #4788
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    So NPHET have now acknowledged that level 3 was working! But still recommended a move to level 5? Baffling!

    https://www.newstalk.com/news/peoples-behaviour-changing-relation-covid-19-says-nphet-member-1095602

    The fact that positivity rate dropped from 8.9 to 5.8% is most likely down to lower selectivity or efficiency of a tracing system. This should not be used as a proxy for how the virus spreads. I was expecting the positivity to fall when we moved to level 3.Much fewer people in those controlled and traceable settings, and consequently more missed cases.

    Virus is doing just fine, spreading exponentially as it normally does.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #4789
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Penfailed wrote: »
    The thing is, he's not trying to be a celebrity. It's the media that are pushing him as a celebrity. If he's being invited on to the likes of the LLS, surely he'll be thinking, "What better way to get the message out there."

    If he’s “not trying to be a celebrity “ then don’t go on the LLS on a Friday night.
    Plenty of other ways of getting that message out there as we are all well aware


  • #4790
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Penfailed wrote: »
    The thing is, he's not trying to be a celebrity. It's the media that are pushing him as a celebrity. If he's being invited on to the likes of the LLS, surely he'll be thinking, "What better way to get the message out there."

    What...it's all over the news cycle, there isn't a conversation between citizens that doesn't involve covid at this stage...

    He is preening himself that is all....the man is either a sociopath or egomaniac.


  • #4791
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I think they'll be very hard pressed to justify another 2 weeks when the 1 month review comes up, and they'll find it even harder after Christmas/New Year to get any sort of buy in at all from the general population if they try this nonsense again. That's when we WILL see people on the streets (Irish Water protests style) I reckon, just as how many are already (like they did then) refusing to engage with the whole mess anyway.

    This is like the opposite version of, "just give it another few weeks and the levels will go up/down/whatever*" I've been reading these threads from the start and massive protests and civil unrest have been mooted as being just around the corner. They still haven't materialised. I doubt they will in the new year either. If there's continued lockdowns, people will just do their own thing to get around them and get by. There won't be massive 'Irish Water style' protests.

    *delete as appropriate

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, And So I Watch You From Afar



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  • #4792
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,244 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Penfailed wrote: »
    The thing is, he's not trying to be a celebrity. It's the media that are pushing him as a celebrity. If he's being invited on to the likes of the LLS, surely he'll be thinking, "What better way to get the message out there."

    I get the impression he likes the limelight and the attention (I wonder is he paid for these appearances as well?)

    Won't surprise me if he takes a run at the Seanad after all this is done.


  • #4793
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,956 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    "What better way to get the message out there."

    A spot on prime time national news every damn evening?

    The most visible man in the entire country had zero need whatsoever to have his balls fondled on a light entertainment show.


  • #4794
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    road_high wrote: »
    If he’s “not trying to be a celebrity “ then don’t go on the LLS on a Friday night.
    Plenty of other ways of getting that message out there as we are all well aware

    ...but it's another very high profile way of getting the message out there. I've never watched the LLS in my life (apart from the Toy Show in recent years). We didn't have RTE where I lived in the north. I don't see the attraction. The fact that everyone is talking about it points to the fact that it's got a massive following.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, And So I Watch You From Afar



  • #4795
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,627 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Penfailed wrote: »
    The thing is, he's not trying to be a celebrity. It's the media that are pushing him as a celebrity. If he's being invited on to the likes of the LLS, surely he'll be thinking, "What better way to get the message out there."

    Tony’s job, which he seems to forget, is to advise the government on the best course of action.

    Last July, during a bulletin on a day when Ireland had 14 cases, he said he was “deeply concerned”.

    Look at his return to NPHET, immediately demanding a meeting, for the sole purpose of increasing the suffering of the most suppressed nation in the EU into further restrictions.


  • #4796
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Penfailed wrote: »
    The thing is, he's not trying to be a celebrity. It's the media that are pushing him as a celebrity. If he's being invited on to the likes of the LLS, surely he'll be thinking, "What better way to get the message out there."






    .......with a terminally ill wife to think about , kids too.......really?? There is such a word as NO. Or he could have done a remote interview?


    Most people would just go home in these circumstances after a long day at work, particularly if your wife is dying. Tony Holohan loves the limelight, he is hell bent on redeeming his reputation because he has blood on his hands.


    I think he got this wrong. The tide is definitely turning.


  • #4797
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    walus wrote: »
    The fact that positivity rate dropped from 8.9 to 5.8% is most likely down to lower selectivity or efficiency of a tracing system. This should not be used as a proxy for how the virus spreads. I was expecting the positivity to fall when we moved to level 5. Much fewer people in those controlled and traceable settings, and consequently more missed cases.

    Virus is doing just fine, spreading exponentially as it normally does.




    New harsher restrictions take 2 weeks to show whether they are working or not. This is a fact. We are in Level 5 just 2 full days.
    So the reduction is due to LEVEL 3, not Level 5. Level 3 was working but they never gave it a chance. Now 150K have lost their jobs and many people are in isolation and despair as we head into darker days from Sunday.


  • #4798
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,852 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    What...it's all over the news cycle, there isn't a conversation between citizens that doesn't involve covid at this stage...

    He is preening himself that is all....the man is either a sociopath or egomaniac.

    Anyone with the brass neck to cling onto his role after presiding over the cervical check scandal is, at the very least, a dangerous egotist.

    He should never have been allowed to retain his position.

    His every appearance smacks of an 'I know best' smugness and arrogance.

    He makes my skin crawl TBH.


  • #4799
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    New harsher restrictions take 2 weeks to show whether they are working or not. This is a fact. We are in Level 5 just 2 full days.
    So the reduction is due to LEVEL 3, not Level 5. Level 3 was working but they never gave it a chance. Now 150K have lost their jobs and many people are in isolation and despair as we head into darker days from Sunday.

    You are correct.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #4800
    KennisWhale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭KennisWhale


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    What...it's all over the news cycle, there isn't a conversation between citizens that doesn't involve covid at this stage...

    He is preening himself that is all....the man is either a sociopath or egomaniac.

    A typical Baby Doomer.


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  • #4801
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I get the impression he likes the limelight and the attention (I wonder is he paid for these appearances as well?)

    Won't surprise me if he takes a run at the Seanad after all this is done.

    He’s definitely on the Seanad radar- I’ve said that from the start. A golden opportunity gifted to him that involves nothing apart from going around in circles repeating the same rubbish with zero insight, innovation or personal sacrifice


This discussion has been closed.
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