Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

FintanMcluskey · 23-10-2020 03:28PM

the kelt wrote: »

Anyone have any idea how many people have died from Covid in Ireland that didnt have any underlying health conditions?

ICU deaths would possibly be an indication of people who would be expected to be alive today without Covid.

That doesn’t answer your question, but Tony will guard the secret like his power depends on it

_Kaiser_ · 23-10-2020 03:35PM

Seanachai wrote: »

Most of the people I see wearing masks outdoors in my neighbourhood are in their 20's, the deference to authority in this age group is strange.

That's because that generation are most influenced by social media and more likely to get their news from those sources. As we've seen even here on boards.ie those most worried about CV-19 are also those shouting most loudly for restrictions, lockdowns and attacking those who disagree with them.

It's (as others have said in this thread) become a religion and Masks are the new Cross. No wonder then that they're wearing them everywhere as another thing social media relies on is a need for approval and validation - and no better way of getting that than by visibly showing your adherence with a mask on everywhere you go!

As I said last night, social media and the platforms behind it have become hugely damaging to society - precisely because of the way anyone or anything can become globally "viral" in hours without filtering, fact-checking, or counter-argument.

Serious sanctions and regulations need to be levied on the platforms who allow this corruption of debate and influence.

Ll31 · 23-10-2020 03:37PM

the kelt wrote: »

Anyone have any idea how many people have died from Covid in Ireland that didnt have any underlying health conds..

Posted by hawkwing View Post
CSO updated,
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpub...casesseries14/

1531 deaths with an underlying condition,median age 83
29 with no underlying condition,median age 81

There were 1,417 deaths of people with underlying conditions in the over 65 age group. Of the 129 deaths in the 25-64 age group, 112 had underlying conditions.

In terms of underlying conditions, chronic heart disease was present in 44% of deaths.
**********
No deaths at all in Waterford or Leitrim of any age/condition since this began,whenever that was...
So with 1,618 deaths in total and 1,531 having underlying conditions, Covid has only killed 87 "healthy" people.

I get its serious and we should all be taking precautions but at a certain point we have to start coming onto the fact that if you aren't compromised and are under 65 you're overwhelmingly likely to be just fine.
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Johnboy1951 · 23-10-2020 04:14PM

the kelt wrote: »

Anyone have any idea how many people have died from Covid in Ireland that didnt have any underlying health conditions?

The best indicator for me is a comparison of all deaths (all cause mortality) in a period, compared to previous years.

I do not have figures to hand, but from what I have read and seen on line (Ivor Cummins for example) there is very little difference overall.
We had a spike of deaths initially when Covid hit, but the majority of those cases were near death in any case and would likely have died within a couple of weeks if there was no Covid. Hence the spike.

FintanMcluskey · 23-10-2020 04:43PM

Newstalk has D. O Brien on.

The multinationals are saving our bacon, while also providing a smokescreen to the worst hit EU domestic economy.

Seemingly according to Dan O Brien, while dealing with worldwide diplomats he is repeatedly asked why is Ireland catastrophizing the response to Covid.

Don't Chute! · 23-10-2020 04:50PM

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

They are very useful at annoying lunatics too it seems, I will probably start wearing them outside too

Yeah that’s great. Do you have anything worthwhile to add to this whole thing or is it just silly little snipes at people?

suicide_circus · 23-10-2020 05:12PM

Real Donald Trump wrote: »

Hear hear!

You know what? Great to see some passion and fighting spirit in our parliament. Makes a nice change from the usual dross which stumbles from the anemic to the bewildered.

uli84 · 23-10-2020 05:31PM

I tried to figure it out on previous lockdown but couldn’t- how is Dunnes clothing opened but not any other clothing shop? (Talking about the store where clothes are on a different floor than grocery and has a separate entrance on the 1st floor)
I mean I am happy of course but that’s sure not fair (?)

suicide_circus · 23-10-2020 05:33PM

uli84 wrote: »

I tried to figure it out on previous lockdown but couldn’t- how is Dunnes clothing opened but not any other clothing shop? (Talking about the store where clothes are on a different floor than grocery and has a separate entrance on the 1st floor)
I mean I am happy of course but that’s sure not fair (?)

A decision by Dunnes head office to take a fast and loose interpretation of the rules I'd imagine

23-10-2020 05:35PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

We had a spike of deaths initially when Covid hit, but the majority of those cases were near death in any case and would likely have died within a couple of weeks if there was no Covid. Hence the spike.

Complete and utter bollocks.

Silentcorner · 23-10-2020 05:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Complete and utter bollocks.

How many of those that died were treated in ICU?

Cluedo Monopoly · 23-10-2020 05:42PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Newstalk has D. O Brien on.

The multinationals are saving our bacon, while also providing a smokescreen to the worst hit EU domestic economy.

Seemingly according to Dan O Brien, while dealing with worldwide diplomats he is repeatedly asked why is Ireland catastrophizing the response to Covid.

O'Brien knows his stuff. We need to hear more from him.

Stormyteacup · 23-10-2020 05:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Complete and utter bollocks.

HIQA would disagree with you;

‘The officially reported COVID-19 deaths may overestimate the true burden of excess mortality specifically caused by COVID-19. This is may be due to the likely inclusion within official COVID-19 figures of people who were known to be infected with SARS-CoV-2 (coronavirus) at the time of death who were at or close to end-of–life independently of COVID-19 or whose cause of death may have been predominantly due to other factors.’

And,

‘COVID-19 may have accelerated time of death in frail and vulnerable individuals over the peak period. The excess mortality observed at the peak is now being followed by a period of decreased mortality as date of death for individuals who would ordinarily have died during this time may have occurred earlier than expected.’

https://www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2020-07/Analysis-of-excess-all-cause-mortality-in-Ireland-during-the-COVID-19-epidemic.pdf

Data from RIP.ie for the most part, hardly conclusive but points towards what we will likely see in official reports when they get round to compiling and releasing them for whole of 2020.

CruelSummer · 23-10-2020 05:59PM

I’ve been taking breaks recently from RTE, media in general and social media. It’s been great and really focused my mind on what’s important. And it isn’t Covid. The government & NPHET have destroyed their trust with the Irish people by this Level 5 fiasco.
1. How can a Government making one of the biggest decisions this state has to make, pretend they ‘weren’t told’ re contact tracing issues. If they are being truthful and ‘weren’t informed’ by Paul Reid, what kind of Cabinet have we got making major decisions? Not one I support anymore. At the very least, cabinet should have all the information & be looking at a RANGE of options on how to proceed. Thus looking at current test & trace capacity. If they aren’t - shame on them. Screw this Level 5, why should we all follow it if we’re being led by people who don’t even get the basic information right.
2. Dr Tony being wheeled out tonight won’t make a huge difference, I expect him to play the sympathy card. He’s struggling with a private tragic family circumstance & he just felt he had to come back + help the country. (Aka shut down the country). If you look at Dr Tony’s record - it’s lockdown & don’t reopen for months. Let’s see if he makes any other suggestions tonight, I cannot stand Ryan or the Late Late propaganda and turned it off long ago so I won’t be tuning in.
3. Ireland’s Introduction of Penal laws brings my mind back to the late 1600 and 1700’s when Protestants passed Penal Laws against Catholic’s. Imagine that our Government are currently passing these laws not allowing adequate time for debate on them in the Dáil & keeping them in place until June 2021? Why?
4. People are speaking with their feet in my area, everyone is finding a way around the current legislation. I’ve yet to meet one single person that supports level 5. I’ve had people comment openly as to ‘They’re trying to control us, not the virus’. This move to Level 5 & lockdown has completely eroded trust in what our Government are doing.
5. The nursing home situation in Galway is an absolute DISGRACE. Will Ryan ask Dr Tony about that? How on earth are staff in these institutions not tested frequently and regularly as a precaution, especially when Covid is on the rise in the community. Unforgivable.

I’ve two questions for Dr Tony - Have we entered level 5 because of Contact tracing issues & a failure on behalf of Government institutions to get their house in order?
What exactly is his strategy besides lockdown when there’s no vaccine? Has he got one?

23-10-2020 06:06PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

HIQA would disagree with you ...

This is just the type of rubbish the anti-restrictions brigade like to throw around to defend their stance.

My mother was in a nursing home in April, she was doing fine, hearty and healthy and no where "near death within a few weeks". In fact, I had a care meeting with her team just a week before they were locked down on 6 March, and was told she was in great health.

Covid happened, and she became infected and died 20 days later. The only pre-existing condition she had was she had a heart attack 16 years ago, for which she was did not need any intervention (eg. stents) and was not even on medication for, as it was a stress induced heart attack.

I'm not sure about the other 20+ residents of her nursing home who also died, but there is no way that they were "end of life" or all expected to die within one month.

So please, spare me the "oh they all would have died soon anyway" bull****.

23-10-2020 06:24PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I’ve two questions for Dr Tony - Have we entered level 5 because of Contact tracing issues & a failure on behalf of Government institutions to get their house in order?
What exactly is his strategy besides lockdown when there’s no vaccine? Has he got one?

looks like Level 3 was going to work after all. Only 1 day into Level 5 and our numbers are dropping. So it was working, but we never gave it a chance. Tony Holohan jumped the gun again in his race to lockdown the country, and he is being wheeled out to be drooled over on the Late Late tonight. Will Ryan T ask any hard questions? Nah not at all. Ryan loves a tragic story, so it will be all "how are you coping Tony"?

If my partner was terminally ill and I was out working all day I would not be racing off for a TV appearance as Ireland's newest celebrity. I would be going home to my loved ones. I just find this whole thing strange.

pconn062 · 23-10-2020 06:29PM

Big difference in this so called lockdown compared to the last one. My local beach which was deserted in March and April very busy this evening with cars from all over the place. People having picnics even. And my elderly neighbours who avoided everyone, even close family earlier in the year are having visitors yesterday and today. Great to see people taking control of their own situations.

23-10-2020 06:30PM

I really think the anti restrictions crowd are living in a different planet with the stuff they come out with. The vast majority of people I speak to are massively in favour of the restrictions and most are saying we should have done into them weeks ago.

These restrictions are absolutely necessary the nursing home situation I’m galway is a great example of this.

Could you imagine the absolute sh1t show if we opened up and were having thousands of cases per day and the virus rampant we would have no staff to work in hospitals or nursing homes as everyone would be infected.

We need to get stricter, we need to close schools, we need to forget about pubs for Christmas it is out of the question as people will go mad and just be idiots spreading the virus everywhere. We need these fines to get introduced and none of this softly bull sh1t from the guards, fine as a first resort not a last resort. Sick listening to the weak leadership in the guards in the radio we need a no nonsense, in hard approach. It’s hospital them thugs protesting in Dublin should be now not in cells.

23-10-2020 06:30PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Didn't you say the toddler ended up in hospital with it?

toddler had a urinary tract infection which took a week on a drip and 3 antibiotics to clear up. She was tested for Covid again while in hospital and still had "strains" of Covid in her blood. However the consultant microbiologist in Limerick UH said she was non contagious at that stage and the temperatures were down to UTI.
Thankfully she is flying fit and home again !

23-10-2020 06:34PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Newstalk has D. O Brien on.

The multinationals are saving our bacon, while also providing a smokescreen to the worst hit EU domestic economy.

Seemingly according to Dan O Brien, while dealing with worldwide diplomats he is repeatedly asked why is Ireland catastrophizing the response to Covid.

Dan O Brien was on Prime Time last night too and was very good. To give Miriam credit she gave the participants an awful lot of time and said she found the whole debate very interesting. This is good. Jim O Callaghan her brother was completely against going to Level 5 , perhaps she is chatting to him a bit these days and looking at both sides......unlike a lot of RTE presenters ...Claire Byrne looking at you!!( she was awful on Radio this week, completely shutting down any debate contrary to the NPHET school of thought)

23-10-2020 06:36PM

Ll31 wrote: »

the kelt wrote: »

Anyone have any idea how many people have died from Covid in Ireland that didnt have any underlying health conds..

Posted by hawkwing View Post
CSO updated,
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpub...casesseries14/

1531 deaths with an underlying condition,median age 83
29 with no underlying condition,median age 81

There were 1,417 deaths of people with underlying conditions in the over 65 age group. Of the 129 deaths in the 25-64 age group, 112 had underlying conditions.

In terms of underlying conditions, chronic heart disease was present in 44% of deaths.
**********
No deaths at all in Waterford or Leitrim of any age/condition since this began,whenever that was...
So with 1,618 deaths in total and 1,531 having underlying conditions, Covid has only killed 87 "healthy" people.

I get its serious and we should all be taking precautions but at a certain point we have to start coming onto the fact that if you aren't compromised and are under 65 you're overwhelmingly likely to be just fine.
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on heart disease, 100 people in America die every HOUR from it!! mostly from coronary heart disease. I'd well believe that killed more than they let on saying even, and NOT Covid.

Stormyteacup · 23-10-2020 06:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This is just the type of rubbish the anti-restrictions brigade like to throw around to defend their stance.

My mother was in a nursing home in April, she was doing fine, hearty and healthy and no where "near death within a few weeks". In fact, I had a care meeting with her team just a week before they were locked down on 6 March, and was told she was in great health.

Covid happened, and she became infected and died 20 days later. The only pre-existing condition she had was she had a heart attack 16 years ago, for which she was did not need any intervention (eg. stents) and was not even on medication for, as it was a stress induced heart attack.

I'm not sure about the other 20+ residents of her nursing home who also died, but there is no way that they were "end of life" or all expected to die within one month.

So please, spare me the "oh they all would have died soon anyway" bull****.

I am very sorry for your loss.

It sounds like your mother was one of those passing away too soon. I have experienced sudden and excepted loss of loved ones.

It was horrific and criminal how those in residential care homes were sidelined and left defenceless. And it continues still, but I believe that the blame is mostly on the government and their misguided reactions. No matter how carefully people in the community do their part to protect the vulnerable, care homes were always going to take the worst toll when this virus arrived to them.

What can or could be done to protect them will be debated for years. I still don’t think lockdowns are the answer.

These are extra devastating times in which to be grieving.

23-10-2020 06:40PM

uli84 wrote: »

I tried to figure it out on previous lockdown but couldn’t- how is Dunnes clothing opened but not any other clothing shop? (Talking about the store where clothes are on a different floor than grocery and has a separate entrance on the 1st floor)
I mean I am happy of course but that’s sure not fair (?)

I walked through my local shopping centre in Drogheda today. Dunnes, phone shops and pharmacies were open. Then I walked past a fashion shop, both male and female clothing , wondering why it was open until I saw the mannequin in the front of the shop was wearing work gear, tool belt, hard hat and steel cap boots (essential workgear) !! It made me smile. I wonder will they last??

CruelSummer · 23-10-2020 06:41PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I really think the anti restrictions crowd are living in a different planet with the stuff they come out with. The vast majority of people I speak to are massively in favour of the restrictions and most are saying we should have done into them weeks ago.

These restrictions are absolutely necessary the nursing home situation I’m galway is a great example of this.

Could you imagine the absolute sh1t show if we opened up and were having thousands of cases per day and the virus rampant we would have no staff to work in hospitals or nursing homes as everyone would be infected.

We need to get stricter, we need to close schools, we need to forget about pubs for Christmas it is out of the question as people will go mad and just be idiots spreading the virus everywhere. We need these fines to get impacted and none of this softly bull sh1t from the guards, fine as a first resort not a last resort. Sick listening to the weak leadership in the guards in the radio we need a no nonsense, in hard approach. It’s hospital them thugs protesting in Dublin should be now not in cells.

Happy Friday to you too Nox

funnydoggy · 23-10-2020 06:44PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

We need to get stricter, we need to close schools, we need to forget about pubs for Christmas it is out of the question as people will go mad and just be idiots spreading the virus everywhere. We need these fines to get introduced and none of this softly bull sh1t from the guards, fine as a first resort not a last resort. Sick listening to the weak leadership in the guards

Why don't they just shoot dissenters instead?

Idbatterim · 23-10-2020 06:45PM

should have left it another 3 weeks, its always the knee jerk worst case scenario they go for, its what happens when you have all of these idiots at the helm! Guys and girls, take care of yourselves! Zone out of the rte bull**** etc in particular, literally cant even stand to read all of the clowns names written down at this stage!

watch something good on netflix where you can zone out, or watch something very interesting, american factory was very interesting, three identical strangers (insane true story) excellent, sinner season one in particular is brilliant! Jesus , I'd watch paint dry for a year, before I'd watch the insufferable RTE **** and one presenter in particular!

an entertainment show on a Friday night, its so typically irish, that at a time when a bit of escapism is desperately needed, that they always make sure, that they put someone on, that is definitely having a worse time than you! I'd wonder do the catholic church give them kick backs or something!

yeah doesnt feel like last lock down for a few reasons. We now know what this thing is! The restriction are a joke. those making the decions are a farce, many of us knew this from the get go, many figuring it out at long last. A major point, its ireland, there are no consequences, fines etc! If this wasnt a banana republic, germany, spain etc, I wouldnt be fcuking around breaking distances etc, here? LOL! The "restrictions" , to be stopped by who , the boyscouts, sorry, sorry, I mean guardai!

Silentcorner · 23-10-2020 07:00PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

should have left it another 3 weeks, its always the knee jerk worst case scenario they go for, its what happens when you have all of these idiots at the helm! Guys and girls, take care of yourselves! Zone out of the rte bull**** etc in particular, literally cant even stand to read all of the clowns names written down at this stage!

watch something good on netflix where you can zone out, or watch something very interesting, american factory was very interesting, three identical strangers (insane true story) excellent, sinner season one in particular is brilliant! Jesus , I'd watch paint dry for a year, before I'd watch the insufferable RTE **** and one presenter in particular!

an entertainment show on a Friday night, its so typically irish, that at a time when a bit of escapism is desperately needed, that they always make sure, that they put someone on, that is definitely having a worse time than you! I'd wonder do the catholic church give them kick backs or something!

yeah doesnt feel like last lock down for a few reasons. We now know what this thing is! The restriction are a joke. those making the decions are a farce, many of us knew this from the get go, many figuring it out at long last. A major point, its ireland, there are no consequences, fines etc! If this wasnt a banana republic, germany, spain etc, I wouldnt be fcuking around breaking distances etc, here? LOL! The "restrictions" , to be stopped by who , the boyscouts, sorry, sorry, I mean guardai!

Tony came back with tunnel vision that much is clear....this alone might lead to some very serious political consequences in the near future, as I imagine, all TDs are getting flooded with calls and emails as we speak...

Idbatterim · 23-10-2020 07:13PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Tony came back with tunnel vision that much is clear....this alone might lead to some very serious political consequences in the near future, as I imagine, all TDs are getting flooded with calls and emails as we speak...

yeah. far too much attention is being directed at tony, I get why he is a lightning rod for a lot of criticism, but the entire farce, dereliction of duty, turning the nphet meetings into a media circus etc. its all on MM and Varadkar...

I think there is going to be SERIOUS backlash to all of this, that will kick in properly over the near year or so, when it becomes apparent! do you remember the recession last time round, the garda saying he was feeding his kids cereal several times a day! The hysteria will be back, this time, fully supported, by many of the prolockdown morons, who actually just cant see where this is all going!

Their version of solidarity?! ask them all to take a 5% income reduction, be it in welfare or salary! 5%, what do you reckon this "all in this together" bull**** looks like then? the absolute hypocrites! they wouldnt take one percent I reckon!

The INSANE amounts the multinations brings in, allows the circus here, its a serious golden goose. but it wont pay for the insane amount they are now borrowing and idiotic plan of open > lockdown > open! I know the retribution is going to hit the politicians and many of those who are now pro lockdown, when they actually realise, the hit to living standards this is going to result in. You cant teach it to these idiots, they need to be shown and they will! give it a bit of time! The credit card is being maxed to hide it all, that wont last too long, not at this rate!

Rrrrrr2 · 23-10-2020 07:14PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Tony came back with tunnel vision that much is clear....this alone might lead to some very serious political consequences in the near future, as I imagine, all TDs are getting flooded with calls and emails as we speak...

Good- I hope they're getting it deep in the fcukin neck. They deserve to, particularly FG FF and Greens and also any "opposition" clappy seals supporting this farce.
This is the biggest failure of politics I've witnessed in my 36 years here so I've lived through several recessions at this stage- none of them felt like this because at least then you were still free to do what you liked and there was a hope we could work our way out of it (which we did)- these days people aren't even allowed work as freely. This is a completely illogical mindless completely disproportionate situation- if it was ebola or something I could understand but we know enough at this stage to know for the vast majority it's either mild or not even noticeable.

23-10-2020 07:17PM

So since last week we know the testing failed and thousands have been infected. We know carers have been promised to an over stretched and under staffed now famous galway nursing home...they never turned up for work. We know state supplied hand sanitser is loaded with methanol and not ethanol which has caused bleeding hands, migraines and respiratory issues....wait could that be covid I have??. Nope its our sanitiser . one girl on the news tonight brought her son the doctor with raw irritated and bleeding hands..the Doc said he now has psoriasis thats been "triggered" by continuos exposure to methanol...Cha ching....nice negligence claim waiting in the wings...an absolute shocking cluster **** of a week...these so called leaders are condoms on the finger of progress.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings