Milk and Dairy

Bigbooty wrote: »

Yeah,I'm aware of the demand for soy oil but Meal is not simply a byproduct, its extremely lucrative in of itself. I'm sure you're aware of this. The global market for soy meal is well about 250 million tonnes while soy oil is around 55. The value of soy Meal around 300-400 dollars a ton while soy oil is 700-800. The big drivers for new soy are in poultry and pig farming particularly in china. My sources are from websites relating to soybean industry, agriculture sustainability organisations and the FDA. I don't really need to use vegan websites for facts as the farming sector provides freely available statistics. And as per the other poster mentioning palm oil. You'll find a lot of hatred for palm oil in the vegan community groups. I don't personally eat it or a lot of overly processed food for that matter.

Klopp represents himself. Veganism is not a cult and people are entitled to be as ridiculous as he is. He is not representative of my own views.

Perhaps it's better to find commonalities, because we've more to loose when we're in such direct opposition. Aside from issues on animal rights I don't think we are too far apart environmentally. I actually find this sort of thing quite stressful..I don't like arguing online, it's not good for my sanity, so I'm checking out. Feel free to respond and ill read it. Peace.

Fair enough. Soymeal is described as a by-product - simply becsuse its what is left over after the valuable oil is extracted.

And soybeans will continue to be grown for their extremely valuable oil content - whether the likes of China stop using the meal to feed animals or otherwise. Increasingly soy by-products after the extraction soy oil are being used in industrial processes. And soy oil demand is not only surging - it is the most valuable human food oil on the commodities market.

The way information on soy production is pushed on various vegan websites is not only totaly misleading - its complete rubbish. Much like the 80% figure which is routinely quoted out of context.

Currently soy meal produced is used for various types of animal feed. Though most of that is produced outside the 'Amazon'. And yes that meal goes for cat food, dog food, horse feed, chicken feed and yes even for some cattle feed. The US is the biggest producer of soy globally and use much of it for their own domestic market. A hell of a lot of soy meal is now being used as a cheap and frankly nasty filler in highly processed foods.

Here farmers are not cramming soya meal from the 'amazon' down the throats of cattle. Ireland is lucky that cattle can graze outdoors for most of the year. And that's how it should be.

And I agree this thing of attacking others is not the way to go. However this thread remains a case in point. Unfortunately it seems to be used by some to do exactly that imo.

Not going to dwell on it. Its good to discuss things though

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The snowflakes are freaking out now over the label burger and sausage being used on veggie products. This is the IFA the same shower who have hired a tobacco PR firm to spread dubious information on their impact on the environment. Also it's outrageous that their Pravda voice the farmers journal are now the sponsors of Countrywide, I'm sure we can look forward to completely unbiased reporting now lol.
Ireland is a lost cause on environmental issues and reform of farming, it looks like CAP isnt going to change much either. I just find it hilarious that farmers feel so threatened by this forum that they have to constantly post on it. A small percentage of folks in Ireland not eating meat or dairy isnt going to affect your business when you export it all anyway.

Oh I feel some outrage in that post.
There is a lot of legislation regarding labelling of food, the new wave of meat substitutes have played it loose with their names to make it easier to market. Why should they not have their own name?
The farmers journal is a newspaper shock horror its sponsoring a radio programme. Have you ever read the journal? You only hear about it when it publishes an article about something you care about. If I remember right it has even done fashion segments.

Look at this forum...this was the only thread with any activity for 2 weeks! Look at the life we bring to here!!

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The snowflakes are freaking out now over the label burger and sausage being used on veggie products. This is the IFA the same shower who have hired a tobacco PR firm to spread dubious information on their impact on the environment. Also it's outrageous that their Pravda voice the farmers journal are now the sponsors of Countrywide, I'm sure we can look forward to completely unbiased reporting now lol.
Ireland is a lost cause on environmental issues and reform of farming, it looks like CAP isnt going to change much either. I just find it hilarious that farmers feel so threatened by this forum that they have to constantly post on it. A small percentage of folks in Ireland not eating meat or dairy isnt going to affect your business when you export it all anyway.

Rflol. Thelonious and his 'Snowflakes'

Nope the only ones I see freaking out are here and yourself tbf.

Not even one mention in the farming forum so far*

As for posting Thelonious - the odd thing is there's more 'farming' related threads in this forum than anywhere else outside F&F. All created by a small number of posters who don't have a clue about agriculture and spend their time posting hate filled rants against farmers

So you're now saying others not allowed to comment on these farming related threads? Or does such freedom of expression only work for select groups?

That's nice ..

Edit: thanks for the heads up - going to post the poll so at least we just don't get the veggies voting :pac:

ganmo wrote: »

Fish burger has always bothered me
Steak though has always been a large bit of unprocessed flesh to me so salmon steak was what I called salmon darnes(or however ya call them)

It really is a bit of a ridiculous thing to go to European courts about if you ask me. Surely business isn't that bad.

ganmo wrote: »

It's their regulations that govern the naming of food so that's where the discussion has to be had.
You try and make an Irish champagne

well that's different, it's a region in France that produces a certain product.
I don't see why fish, chicken, a mix of pork and breadcrumbs between 2 buns is a burger, but if it doesn't contain meat it's not a burger.
My local chipper does egg burgers, is that ok?
The boffins at Cambridge say this -

meat or other food made into a round, fairly flat shape, fried and usually eaten between two halves of a bread roll:
a burger and fries
a hamburger
a veggie burger

It's just ridiculous pettiness if you ask me. But maybe farmers are worried people are choosing these things instead of meat based ones nowadays. I know I've found it very hard to find the veggie denny burgers/sausages these days, they seem to be flying off the shelves. Lots of people who still eat meat are choosing to eat these things sometimes too, to reduce their intake. Like my Mam makes dinner with quorn mince or has veggie burgers sometimes, but she also eats beef.
Maybe you should be worried! But not really, because as I said before, you export all your product anyway, a few people in Ireland being veggie isn't going to make much of a diff.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

well that's different, it's a region in France that produces a certain product.
I don't see why fish, chicken, a mix of pork and breadcrumbs between 2 buns is a burger, but if it doesn't contain meat it's not a burger.
My local chipper does egg burgers, is that ok?
The boffins at Cambridge say this -

It's just ridiculous pettiness if you ask me. But maybe farmers are worried people are choosing these things instead of meat based ones nowadays. I know I've found it very hard to find the veggie denny burgers/sausages these days, they seem to be flying off the shelves. Lots of people who still eat meat are choosing to eat these things sometimes too, to reduce their intake. Like my Mam makes dinner with quorn mince or has veggie burgers sometimes, but she also eats beef. Maybe you should be worried! But not really, because as I said before, you export all your product anyway, a few people in Ireland being veggie isn't going to make much of a diff.

Thelonious what are you on about? That's certainly the oddest post I've seen to date

The proposals have been put forward by the EU parliament’s agriculture committee

The EU motion on the naming of agricultural produce is simply a proposal for defining regulations of the European Parliament and of the Council .

The current proposal seeks to amend various existing regulations on naming within quality schemes for agricultural products and foodstuffs.

How exactly do you think the EU is being "petty"? It's just motion of many. And here you're you making some big conspiracy out of it?

The only ones screaming about it here are generally anti agriculture as far as I can see. I certainly don't see any 'worried' farmers loosing their ****e tbf.

It's not like anyone is slapping whatever veggie product you like to eat out of your hands or anything. You'll still be able to buy them no matter what they are called.

The IFA are absolutely entitled to make their opinion known much as other EU farming organisations have done.

And no - not "all" agricultural produce is exported. Where did you get that bizarrre idea? Unless you are suggesting we shouldn't produce and export anything in this country. Do you want us to go back to the stoneage or something?

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's completely different. If there was a type of beef from a certain Irish breed of cow in say Leitrim, that ate particular grass or something, then I'd understand you wanted to make it sovereign to that region. That's how it is with champagne, and feta, and halloumi etc.
But burger can mean loads of different things, and isn't solely to be used with beef. I don't really see the point in these discussions between vegetarians and farmers any more anyway. You guys are terrified you'll lose some money, and vegan/veg are mostly concerned with environmental issues and cruelty.
There is no way anything will ever be agreed on. You'll continue to provide alternative facts till the cows come home. You have politicians in your back pocket and nearly the whole island is devoted to beef and dairy farming, I don't think you need to be worrying about a few quinoa burgers. And yes isn't it 90% of beef and dairy produced in Ireland is exported? That's what I mean when I say a few veggie burgers in Ireland hardly makes a difference.

I think you are still confused Thelonious. The proposals have been put forward by the EU parliament’s agriculture Committee. There's no big conspiracy you know.

If you are concerned get on to your local MEP

The general point of such discussions is an exchange of ideas and even sometimes to highlight factual inaccuracies. As exemplified above.

You guys are terrified you'll lose some money, and vegan/veg are mostly concerned with environmental issues and cruelty.

Incorrect. Farmers here are not 'worried' about this or any other bs emotion you'd like to project. And yes farmers are absolutely concerned about environmental issues. And yes 'cruelty' is illegal. You really need to learn a bit about agriculture and drop your nearly daily attacks on farmers and rural areas.

I dunno but its nearly like such comments are being paid for by the green party or something. If I was them I'd be looking for a refund tbf.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It really is a bit of a ridiculous thing to go to European courts about if you ask me. ..

This comment by itself shows how truely misinformed your comments are.

The current proposals have been put forward by the EU parliament’s agriculture committee.

As said if you are concerned contact your local MEP.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you’re saying that the Irish farmers are financially supported, to the hilt, by the Irish tax payer and then most of that product is sent overseas ?
So if most of the Irish product is going overseas does that mean the Irish tax payer is eating imported meats ? Think I’m going to have to pay for a proper exported/imported report.
Get a graph going for the Irish tax payer to see where their financial support is going, which countries overseas, and where their food actually comes from, again which countries its imported from. I think it’s only fair this con job is shown up for what it is. I doubt your average Irish punter is aware of it.

Which bit exactly are you having difficulty Klopp?
and In which comment does it claim any of that?

Agriculture - all forms of agriculture are supported under the EU Common Agriculture Policy (CAP). Thats ALL forms iof agriculture across the EU. The EU also provides structural supports for a range of other sectors here.

Why does the EU do this? To keep the price of food low and that is done by supporting producers.



And like all produce in the EU - agricultural products are traded. What is produced in Ireland is consumed here and also sold to other EU countries - which in turn helps supports the Irish economy. And yes farmers here pay tax. Something as someone living abroad - you obviously dont know about.

But what exactly is that you got against those working here and specifically farmers that you spend your nights railing against agricultures role in the Irish economy?

Or is It an excuse for just another mindless attack on farming?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’ve no problem with imported/exported foods.

I’ve a problem with Irish people not realising that most meat they eat is imported while the meat they subsidise is exported.

Most? Where are you getting most from?
Pork products like sausages and rashers and catering chicken are the most likely imported meats anyone that eats mostly them doesnt really care where their food comes from.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’ve no problem with imported/exported foods.
I’ve a problem with Irish people not realising that most meat they eat is imported while they meat the subsidise is exported.

Well I think you do have a problem there tbf. Thats completely wrong.

To paraphrase- Wow is that what you think of people here Klopp?

Do you really believe 'Irish' people are thick or something that they don't know that Ireland Imports and exports all types of goods? Or that people living here don't know that agriculture is supported by the EU under the Common Agricultural Policy in order to provide affordable food of many different types?

OK so back to this.

Agricultural produce is imported. And agricultural produce is exported. This includes meat, dairy products cereals and vegetables. Just like in every other EU country.

In 2018 Irelands total exports amounted to 140 billion Euro worth of goods which also includes Irish agricultural produce.

In 2018 Irelands total Imports amounted to 92 billion Euro worth if goods which also included agricultural produce from other countries. It really is not too hard to understand tbh.

Do you rail against lets say Australia importing different types of foods whilst exporting similar? Or maybe Ireland manufacturing pharmaceuticals for export and yet importing similar drugs from other countries?

Why is it you're only having a go at Agricultural producers?

Dont want to guess tbh - What industry do you work in Klopp?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you’re saying that the Irish farmers are financially supported, to the hilt, by the Irish tax payer and then most of that product is sent overseas ?

So if most of the Irish product is going overseas does that mean the Irish tax payer is eating imported meats ?

Think I’m going to have to pay for a proper exported/imported report.

Get a graph going for the Irish tax payer to see where their financial support is going, which countries overseas, and where their food actually comes from, again which countries its imported from.

I think it’s only fair this con job is shown up for what it is. I doubt your average Irish punter is aware of it.

Common agricultural policy or CAP payments are paid to all European farmers for food security for all of Europe so I'm sure most people who'd take the time to think about it would expect importing and exporting of food to be part of it. So you are incorrect when you say Irish farmers are subsidized to the hilt by Irish tax payers, it would be more correct to say Irish farmers and all other European farmers are subsidized by all European tax payers.

KennisWhale wrote: »

It's a non-issue in reality. At worst, the outcome will involve amending packaging to include the word "alternative" next to milk or burgers or else to utilise the Streisand Effect and add "Not a" to, for example, the word "burger". Iceland, for example, have a "No" meat alternative range, e.g. No Bull Burgers (delicious, if you are interested).

That is the only outcome if somehow words like burger, milk etc. become restricted like the word "champagne" is.

Pretty sure that's been looked at to starting with a so called 'cheese like' product.

KennisWhale wrote: »

It's an odd thing for the EU suits to get caught up on, not sure anyone in the general public is actually disputing the use of these terms.

Probably became an issue when companies marketed as non meat or no meat burgers instead of veggie burgers.

Not sure how a cheese can be made without cultured milk so like are you buying a lump of processed vegetable oil ?