Milk and Dairy

White Clover

Gael23 wrote: »

Also if any dairy cow gives birth to a male calf it’s considered waste product and usually shot at birth

Such a ridiculous post. Ignorance is bliss...

Jjameson

Gael23 wrote: »

Also if any dairy cow gives birth to a male calf it’s considered waste product and usually shot at birth

I have 67 two year old 500kg “survivors” and they wouldn’t seem to be particularly rare now I’d say they have around 200000+ brethren . But I implore you to think of these calves killed at birth... if you all ate a burger a day a steak the next and a nice roast at the weekend they would have a life of one and 3 seasons of grazing green grass under the blue sky!



You cruel heartless baby calf murderers.

NcdJd

KennisWhale wrote: »

“It’s pathetic that the parliament wouldn’t even stand up to the industrial agriculture lobbyists on this,” Greenpeace EU agriculture policy director Marco Contiero put in a statement.

“The votes won’t change the fact that more and more people are eating more vegetables and switching to meat and dairy alternatives for the sake of their health and the environment, and will continue to call dairy-free products ‘yogurt’ and ‘cheese’ anyway.”

Spot on. Fcuk them.

Shows how much green peace knows about vegetable production with that statement - zilch. Vegetable production is the most intensive and harmful to biodiversity and the environment of any type of farming. Go take a trip out around North County Dublin and have a look how your vegetables are produced. They don't grow on trees in fields of butterflies and wild flowers.

NcdJd

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah but you don't see me in the farming forum do you. Most of the fruit and veg comes from up the road in North Dublin actually, 55% or something.

More like 55% comes from the plastic polytunnels of Spain with cheap Moroccan labour and the Netherlands.

But if you genuinely want to buy Irish fruit and veg Lispopple farms is a good place to go.

NcdJd

Guys outside here still planting garlic. They've got about 50 acres done. No wildlife, biodiversity soil is pummelled, lots of artifical fertiliser, multiple spray routines of herbicides and fungicides, large amounts of irrigation then in August at the critical bulb swell stage.

Fields next to it has beef cattle, no artificial fertiliser applications or spraying, old meadows and good hedgerows. Teaming with wildlife and biodiversity.

Do ya see the difference in what I've described ?

emaherx

NcdJd wrote: »

Guys outside here still planting garlic. They've got about 50 acres done. No wildlife, biodiversity soil is pummelled, lots of artifical fertiliser, multiple spray routines of herbicides and fungicides, large amounts of irrigation then in August at the critical bulb swell stage.

Fields next to it has beef cattle, no artificial fertiliser applications or spraying, old meadows and good hedgerows. Teaming with wildlife and biodiversity.

Do ya see the difference in what I've described ?

No....
They see cows bad.
Plants good.

It's amazing how the people who hate cows the most claim to be worried about cruelty towards them.

Anyway slow down the V and V server hasn't seen this kind of activity since impossible burger launch.

NcdJd

emaherx wrote: »

No....
They see cows bad.
Plants good.

It's amazing how the people who hate cows the most claim to be worried about cruelty towards them.

Anyway slow down the V and V server hasn't seen this kind of activity since impossible burger launch.

I've nothing against what people choose to eat or not eat. Personal choices and all of that. But to those who say plant based food production is any better than animal based food production on the environment they are either very misinformed or don't want to accept the reality.

Thelonious Monk

NcdJd wrote: »

More like 55% comes from the plastic polytunnels of Spain with cheap Moroccan labour and the Netherlands.

But if you genuinely want to buy Irish fruit and veg Lispopple farms is a good place to go.

No, 55% of Irish fruit and veg comes from Fingal. No one mentioned imported fruit and veg.

NcdJd

Here ya go, friend of mine tipped out a 12 tons of spuds because there is too much scab on them for the supermarkets. Quality control they call it, I call that food waste. Spuds are perfect for eating

Thelonious Monk

NcdJd wrote: »

I've nothing against what people choose to eat or not eat. Personal choices and all of that. But to those who say plant based food production is any better than animal based food production on the environment they are either very misinformed or don't want to accept the reality.

For me it's more about the amount of land given up worldwide to feed cattle. The amazon is being burned down for this, Ireland has very little biodiversity and nothing resembling a wilderness because of this. If we all ate less meat we wouldn't have to use as much land for food production.
Pointless engaging in this conversation with cattle farmers anyway, you're saviours of nature as far as you're concerned.

Thelonious Monk

NcdJd wrote: »

Here ya go, friend of mine tipped out a 12 tons of spuds because there is too much scab on them for the supermarkets. Quality control they call it, I call that food waste. Spuds are perfect for eating

What has that got to do with anything?!

NcdJd

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What has that got to do with anything?!

No idea was just annoyed when he showed me it last week!

Thelonious Monk

NcdJd wrote: »

No idea was just annoyed when he showed me it last week!

I hope you took some home

JustJoe7240

Gael23 wrote: »

Also if any dairy cow gives birth to a male calf it’s considered waste product and usually shot at birth

Yeah alright

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

For me it's more about the amount of land given up worldwide to feed cattle. The amazon is being burned down for this, Ireland has very little biodiversity and nothing resembling a wilderness because of this. If we all ate less meat we wouldn't have to use as much land for food production.
Pointless engaging in this conversation with cattle farmers anyway, you're saviours of nature as far as you're concerned.

If you believe simply removing cattle from Ireland will increase biodiversity then you are mistaken and obviously don't understand biodiversity. The removal of grazing land would have a negative effect on many species that are currently dependent on farm land.

And this has already been seen in farmland across Europe in area's where livestock farming has declined.

NcdJd

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

For me it's more about the amount of land given up worldwide to feed cattle. The amazon is being burned down for this, Ireland has very little biodiversity and nothing resembling a wilderness because of this. If we all ate less meat we wouldn't have to use as much land for food production.
Pointless engaging in this conversation with cattle farmers anyway, you're saviours of nature as far as you're concerned.

I'm not a cattle farmer, I was involved in commercial vegetable production with my father growing up. I'm trying to do a bit on a part time basis as the job allows. It hasn't changed technique wise other than being on a bigger scale with less and less small producers. I just don't get some of this bitterness directed towards farming in this thread.

Thelonious Monk

emaherx wrote: »

If you believe simply removing cattle from Ireland will increase biodiversity then you are mistaken and obviously don't understand biodiversity. The removal of grazing land would have a negative effect on many species that are currently dependent on farm land.

And this has already been seen in farmland across Europe in area's where livestock farming has declined.

So if we give more land to livestock farming it would improve biodiversity?

NcdJd

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So if we give more land to livestock farming it would improve biodiversity?

Thelonious, the fields out the back of me were always grassland. Cattle on them. We had barn owls, lapwings, curlews both native and migratory. Once the plough was put into the soil for veg production all that disappeared. 40 to 50 acres of swedes completely covered in crop protection mesh. Id rather see it back in grassland as at least there is some sort of biodiversity compared to what it is now which is lifeless.

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So if we give more land to livestock farming it would improve biodiversity?

And where do you think we are giving more? The opposite is actually happening.

Everything is about balance so we should certainly be encouraging more extensive farms and discourage more intensive farming.

But the logic might hurt your brain, biodiversity works better when a cow has more land. The more cattle you put in a smaller area the more it damages any biodiversity, but less cattle in a bigger area allows biodiversity flourish along side farming, but if you have so few cattle (or other grazing animals) that grass and weeds just grow, then fall over and rot into the ground then this is actually worse.

Thelonious Monk

emaherx wrote: »

And where do you think we are giving more? The opposite is actually happening.

Everything is about balance so we should certainly be encouraging more extensive farms and discourage more intensive farming.

But the logic might hurt your brain, biodiversity works better when a cow has more land. The more cattle you put in a smaller area the more it damages any biodiversity, but less cattle in a bigger area allows biodiversity flourish along side farming, but if you have so few cattle (or other grazing animals) that grass and weeds just grow, then fall over and rot into the ground then this is actually worse.

Do you think we would need to reduce the herd to farm cattle in this way or we could keep the 7 million? Surely we don't have enough land for this.

emaherx

Although we certainly need to replace more native forests, contrary to popular belief ireland was never completely forest but would naturally had a lot of grazing animals. We had some of the largest deer in the world which couldn't have survived in dense forest.

In parts of Europe where livestock farming declined it had a negative effect on many species of insects including some rare butterflies as well as other meadow animals and birds. There is a project to re-wild cattle in these areas https://rewildingeurope.com/rewilding-in-action/wildlife-comeback/tauros/

In your re-wilding plan for Ireland deer would probably be a better native option but as we are also missing our native predators we'd have a dilemma which might not suit many vegans. Do we introduce wolves to keep populations in check or a program of regular culling.

Thelonious Monk

But do you think we should reduce the herd if it's extensive farming and less intensive farming you're suggesting? Also the link above, they're putting some buffalos or whatever they are in to keep the equilibrium, not dumping millions of them there for food production, there's a difference.

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do you think we would need to reduce the herd to farm cattle in this way or we could keep the 7 million? Surely we don't have enough land for this.

Well I don't keep 7 million cattle and I run an extensive farm with a low stocking rate. Should also be pointed out the majority of farms in Ireland are fairly similar. I can't answer how many cattle Ireland should support as I haven't worked that out beyond my own farm.

If on the other hand you are looking for me to admit that some farms in my opinion are over stocked then yes absolutely I believe many farms have too many cattle. Will that make any difference to you as you seem to see all farms and farmers in the same light anyway?

Thelonious Monk

emaherx wrote: »

Well I don't keep 7 million cattle and I run an extensive farm with a low stocking rate. Should also be pointed out the majority of farms in Ireland are fairly similar. I can't answer how many cattle Ireland should support as I haven't worked that out beyond my own farm.

If on the other hand you are looking for me to admit that some farms in my opinion are over stocked then yes absolutely I believe many farms have too many cattle. Will that make any difference to you as you seem to see all farms and farmers in the same light anyway?

No but we wouldn't be able to produce all the meat and dairy that we do if everyone farmed the way you do. Any mention of reducing the herd is shut down immediately by the IFA. So the polluting intensive farming isn't going to go away unfortunately, regardless of what you're doing.

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But do you think we should reduce the herd if it's extensive farming and less intensive farming you're suggesting? Also the link above, they're putting some buffalos or whatever they are in to keep the equilibrium, not dumping millions of them there for food production, there's a difference.

If there is a lack of a natural predator that equilibrium will be short lived. It's never as simple as just dropping a few in. Somebody dropped a few animals off in Australia in the past with some fairly negative effects.

KennisWhale

gozunda wrote: »

You do now realise that the "industrial agriculture lobbyists" include those of the highly processed plant food lobby like Unilever yes?

Eating 'vegetables' doesn't magically save the environment btw. Some of the most intensive and highest input types of agriculture are intensive horticulture and arable production. But yeah fcuk them yeah?

You have a bit of a gymnasium going on inside your head that you love to jump around it seems. Lots of whataboutery.

Thelonious Monk

emaherx wrote: »

If there is a lack of a natural predator that equilibrium will be short lived. It's never as simple as just dropping a few in. Somebody dropped a few animals off in Australia in the past with some fairly negative effects.

They probably have wolves in that part of the world, although I don't know if they would prey on those massive things.

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

No but we wouldn't be able to produce all the meat and dairy that we do if everyone farmed the way you do. Any mention of reducing the herd is shut down immediately by the IFA. So the polluting intensive farming isn't going to go away unfortunately, regardless of what you're doing.

You mention regularly about pollution from livestock. Do you know what area of Ireland has the poorest water quality due to agricultural run off? Do you think it might be a livestock area or a tillage area?

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

For me it's more about the amount of land given up worldwide to feed cattle. The amazon is being burned down for this, Ireland has very little biodiversity and nothing resembling a wilderness because of this. If we all ate less meat we wouldn't have to use as much land for food production. Pointless engaging in this conversation with cattle farmers anyway, you're saviours of nature as far as you're concerned.

Excuse my French - but thats B U L L S H I T.
The vast majority of land used in Ireland for grazing is not suitable for either horticulture or arable farming.

Irelands biodiversity is fairly good considering that our country once supported 8.5 million people living off the land and a history which meant our forests were cleared as a result of colonisation to the point they covered less than 1% of the entire country

Today hedgerows alone amount to near 5% of total tree cover. With a further 11% now made up of commercial and non commercial forestry.

The Amazon is being cut down by the Brazilians - Who are using it for growing crops and for livestock most of which is primarily exported to China. And has fek sll squared to do with Irish farming.

Irelands agriculture is largely extensive in nature. But of course that doesn't suit the bs being pushed by some ....

Thelonious- it is possible may know something about music. You evidently know fek all about agriculture or the environment.

KennisWhale

eviltwin wrote: »

And coconut milk

Careful now Ted, don't want to offend the lovely dairy farmers.