Milk and Dairy

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hilarious.
‘Take down the video’ cries millennial snowflake farmer generation. The forum being policed by the snowflake farmers as evidenced by all the ‘thanks’ from that post. Jaysus ‘change’ is the bitterest pill for some folk to swallow. Enjoy your plant based milk and plant based cheese and plant based sausages folks. You’ll be a long time dead. I read that Dean Foods, which is America’s largest milk producer, has applied for bankruptcy. Maybe that’s why so many farmers in Ireland are displaying such snowflake sensitivity but you got to respect peoples choice to choose cruelty free foods.

I’m off now for my oat milk flat white.

Grown by the very system you so vociferously deride.

No such thing as "cruelty free foods" from "plant based" products

Charlie Knoles, Vegan with B. science in biology and agriculture.

A lot of animals are killed in all kinds of agriculture. I'll never forget the first time I saw a combine harvester go through an organic soybean field and kill all the animals that had made that field their home. Among the many animals that died that day were baby bunnies that were skinned by the blades and were then eaten alive by hawks.  The hawks followed the harvester through the field looking for an easy meal. I knew that the farmer had contracted his crop to an organic tofu company and that most of the people eating this food would be vegans and vegetarians. The irony of this situation was enough to stop me from going vegan for many years afterwards. I would frequently bring up this anecdote when I would argue with vegan friends.

It still annoys me when my fellow vegans act as though their lifestyle is 100% cruelty free and that no animals die in the process of making their food. It speaks to an ignorance of the realities of farming and rural life.

You might want to avoid the coffee as well ...

Funny that

Edited to add link. Couldn't do so as was on my phone.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Grown by the very system you so vociferously derile.

Funny that.

What are you on about ?

ganmo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hilarious.

‘Take down the video’ cries millennial snowflake farmer generation.

The forum being policed by the snowflake farmers as evidenced by all the ‘thanks’ from that post.

Jaysus ‘change’ is the bitterest pill for some folk to swallow.

Enjoy your plant based milk and plant based cheese and plant based sausages folks. You’ll be a long time dead.

I read that Dean Foods, which is America’s largest milk producer, has applied for bankruptcy. Maybe that’s why so many farmers in Ireland are displaying such snowflake sensitivity but you got to respect peoples choice to choose cruelty free foods.

I’m off now for my oat milk flat white.

Applying for bankruptcy is not a bad thing in America it seems...ask trump :P

Dean foods revenue = 7 billion
Land o lakes revenue = 14 billion

We don't care about you changing, it's when you attack that's when we care

ganmo

ganmo wrote: »

Applying for bankruptcy is not a bad thing in America it seems...ask trump :P

Dean foods revenue = 7 billion
Land o lakes revenue = 14 billion

We don't care about you changing, it's when you attack that's when we care

Who attacked you ?

ganmo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who attacked you ?

We = farmers

ganmo

ganmo wrote: »

We = farmers

You’d want to have a word with that Gozunda guy so.

He reckons all farming is cruel.

ganmo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You’d want to have a word with that Gozunda guy so.

He reckons all farming is cruel.

In some ways it is. It has to kill one or many things to keep others alive

gozunda

Deleted User wrote: »

You’d want to have a word with that Gozunda guy so.
He reckons all farming is cruel.

You making it up up again Klop?

This is what was stated:

No such thing as "cruelty free foods" from "plant based" products

They don't exist Klopp no matter how much you claim they do. Or use that pretence of moral superiority to attack others.

I think you missed this as well.

It still annoys me when my fellow vegans act as though their lifestyle is 100% cruelty free and that no animals die in the process of making their food. It speaks to an ignorance of the realities of farming and rural life.

It’s nice that you recognise and admit to the cruelty.

As an aside I was wondering did the farmers on Boards.ie appoint you as their spokesperson ?

Or did you appoint yourself ?

Thought it was funny there was a rallying cry for you on the farming forum yesterday. They all came over to support you with ‘thanks’. Bless.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s nice that you recognise and admit to the cruelty. As an aside I was wondering did the farmers on Boards.ie appoint you as their spokesperson ? Or did you appoint yourself ? Thought it was funny there was a rallying cry for you on the farming forum yesterday. They all came over to support you with ‘thanks’. Bless.

Really? Still dodging and weaving and flinging ****e Klopp lol? The only apparent 'cruelty' is your take on logic tbf

I would have at least hoped that you now understand theres no such thing as "cruelty free foods" from "plant based" products - from your personal take on "cruelty". And yes you are complicit in that simply by eating the foods you do. There's no exceptions.

Again applying the old spin? Nope - I'm no ones spokesperson. Just facts klopp. I could equally and disingenuously ask did the vegans on Boards.ie appoint you as their spokesperson? I somehow doubt it tbf.

Though good to see you are regularly visiting the farming forum. Perhaps you might learn positive something there and not simply base your ideas on apparent spite and hate.

NcdJd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s nice that you recognise and admit to the cruelty.

As an aside I was wondering did the farmers on Boards.ie appoint you as their spokesperson ?

Or did you appoint yourself ?

Thought it was funny there was a rallying cry for you on the farming forum yesterday. They all came over to support you with ‘thanks’. Bless.

You really have no idea how food is produced do you ? Your "cruelty free oat milk flat white" if you only knew how many small invertebrates such as mice and frogs are crushed up when the power harrow or min till disks fly over the soil to sow them oats. Or if you pour a glass of soy milk the fact that amazon rainforest have been cleared and burned for that privilege.

All agriculture is damaging to the environment and biodiversity, whether its plant or animal based. Thats a fact.

Gozunda is defending the fact that the title of this thread is very insulting to most farmers who care a great deal about their livestock and in most cases take the health of their animals more serious than their own bloody health.

nthclare

NcdJd wrote: »

You really have no idea how food is produced do you ? Your "cruelty free oat milk flat white" if you only knew how many small invertebrates such as mice and frogs are crushed up when the power harrow or min till disks fly over the soil to sow them oats. Or if you pour a glass of soy milk the fact that amazon rainforest have been cleared and burned for that privilege.

All agriculture is damaging to the environment and biodiversity, whether its plant or animal based. Thats a fact.

Gozunda is defending the fact that the title of this thread is very insulting to most farmers who care a great deal about their livestock and in most cases take the health of their animals more serious than their own bloody health.

And the irony is that soy is actually hybridised and it's dna totally manipulated and the vegans are drinking it by the bucket load.

Not realising that it's going to turn nasty in the long run.

Believe you me I've studied horticulture and in the know over 20 years.

And generic hybrids are not safe.
A lot of them are sprayed with harmful chemicals to keep the weeds down and it's all poison.

Bigbooty

NcdJd wrote: »

. Or if you pour a glass of soy milk the fact that amazon rainforest have been cleared and burned for that privilege.

85% of all soy is used for animal feed. The vast majority of new rainforest destruction is for animal grazing or growing crops to feed animals. It's Complete nonsense that a cup of soy milk is burning the Amazon. So get your facts right.

Actually 50% of the 3.4m tonnes of animal feed imported to this country each year is GMO soy and maize. So in a way Irish farmers are contributing more to the Amazon burning if you're going to start singling vegans out for destroying the Amazon.

To let you in on a secret, soy is grown in the EU too. Which is what I consume..

NcdJd

Bigbooty wrote: »

85% of all soy is used for animal feed. The vast majority of new rainforest destruction is for animal grazing or growing crops to feed animals. It's Complete nonsense that a cup of soy milk is burning the Amazon. So get your facts right.

Actually 50% of the 3.4m tonnes of animal feed imported to this country each year is GMO soy and maize. So in a way Irish farmers are contributing more to the Amazon burning if you're going to start singling vegans out for destroying the Amazon.

To let you in on a secret, soy is grown in the EU too. Which is what I consume..

I don't agree with imported feed at all. We have a great tillage industry here that can supply grains and pulses ( beans ) for animal feed. Also I'm not singling out vegans in this. I take it you might also read your food labels and try and avoid products with palm oil in them ?

My problem here specifically is that there is a thread basically created to say say farmers are in the cruelty business. Which is completely untrue. If you look in the farming and forestry form thread, nature on your farm, you will see most farmers are passionate about wildlife and biodiversity as well as their normal day to day care of their animals.

I don't see any biodiversity thread in here yet there is one basically calling farmers cruelty merchants. I've nothing against vegans, everyone is entitled to their views on things.

gozunda

Bigbooty wrote: »

85% of all soy is used for animal feed. The vast majority of new rainforest destruction is for animal grazing or growing crops to feed animals. It's Complete nonsense that a cup of soy milk is burning the Amazon. So get your facts right. Actually 50% of the 3.4m tonnes of animal feed imported to this country each year is GMO soy and maize. So in a way Irish farmers are contributing more to the Amazon burning if you're going to start singling vegans out for destroying the Amazon. To let you in on a secret, soy is grown in the EU too. Which is what I consume..

Wrong. The 80-85% relates to the proportion of meal extracted from soybeans. Not the percentage of soy crops grown worldwide.

Bigbooty - I now know you are simply repeating what you read - without checking the actual detail. I've seen the same rubbish figures repeated ad nasuem on various vegan websites etc. Its little better than propaganda tbh.

If you had bothered to read this or any thread where this has come up - you'd know that.

Nearly all soybeans are processed for their oil. Soy processors (such as Cargill & ADM) take the raw soybeans and separate the oil from the meal.

https://jepsonfamilyfarms.com/crops/soybeans/

Soy is grown in the US, Canada, Europe and yes South America.



As you can see for each bean processed 20% is oil and the remainder (approx 80%*) is mainly 'meal'.

The fact is almost all soy oil produced is sold for human use.

Even if the leftover soy meal was not fed to animals - soybeans would still be grown in South America and tge Amazon in order to produce oil - the most popular oil sold by volume worldwide.

And yes most of that 'meal' left over after processing the soybean for the production of oil - is used for animal feed including dog food, cat food, horse feed and also used for feeding chicken, pigs and yes some goes for cattle.

For example - here is it being used in 'vegan' dog food

In Ireland grass and fodder make up the largest proportion of all feed types for cattle.

As for the bit about feedstuffs being imported into Ireland. What is imported by wsy of feedstuffs mainly comes from the US and or Europe. Not the Amazon.

This is why grass-fed livestock farming is so important here.

* note this is where your '85%' figure comes from (The amount of oil extracted from beans varies on average between 80-85%.)

And I'm not a fan of soy btw. Interestingly whilst the biggest proportion of soy globally is grown in the United States - I am against it being grown in the Amazon.

Jjameson

As I have repeatedly pointed out there is no productive or economic advantage in cruelty to dairy cattle. Put any animal in pain or stress and it will not thrive or produce and there’s no point or profit in that.
But never let logic get in the way of emotive misinformation.
Cows have only been milked on these islands for 4500 odd years. The Walt Disney urban reared degenerates are being milked by a food processing/retail consortium and good luck to them.. mmm meaty melty toasty made from coconut oil,palm oil, modified starch and salt anyone?

NcdJd

If your dog or cat is in distress you bring it to a vet. When a livestock farmer's animal is in distress he or she will call the vet out. If a vet sensed a farmer was been cruel to his or her animals do you think they would remain in business long ? To answer - no they would not.

Money money money.

That’s all the farmers care about.

Loads of examples on the farming forum.

Only recently a farmer was delighted when his young child responded to - what is a chicken ? Mooonnnneeeyyyyyy

I paraphrase the above. It’s how I remember it.

The forum itself is FULL of farmers deciding between money and putting an animal down. If there’s no profit the animal dies sooner than intended.

Anytime I read through some of the threads it’s clear what farmers want. More money. To say they care more about animals than money isn’t evidenced from anything I’ve read.

I remember being at secondary school and a lot of the farming children were pulled out once they could read well enough. No chance for the poor guys to go into any other industry. Can read good enough to fill out subsidy forms ? Then out you come. It was a real shame as 1-2 were capable of more but in fairness the rest didn’t have much about them and maybe the safety net of the farm was just as well.

Anyway. The public are now voting with their feet and money. It’s a good time when you see the savage industries rally in fear of losing money.

Farmers only care about money. People need to realise and except that.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Money money money. That’s all the farmers care about. Loads of examples on the farming forum. Only recently a farmer was delighted when he young child responded to - what is a chicken?MooonnnneeeyyyyyyI paraphrase the above. It’s how I remember it. The forum itself is FULL of farmers deciding between money and putting an animal down. If there’s no profit the animal dies sooner than intended. Anytime I read through some of the threads it’s clear what farmers want. More money. To say they care more about animals than money isn’t evidenced from anything I’ve read. I remember being at secondary school and a lot of the farming children were pulled out once they could read well enough. No chance for the poor guys to go into any other industry. Can read good enough to fill out subsidy forms ? Then out you come. It was a real shame as 1-2 were capable of more but in fairness the rest didn’t have much about them and maybe the safety net of the farm was just as well. Anyway. The public are now voting with their feet and money. It’s a good time when you see the savage industries rally in fear of losing money. Farmers only care about money. People need to realise and except that.

And that's the type of hate filled crsp on this thread that people are objecting to. Pathetic.

As earlier

klopparama wrote:

I’m off now for my oat milk flat white.

Grown by the very system you so vociferously deride ...

There’s zero hate in my post. That you feel hate may reflect more on the type of person you are.

Your idea of hate are really just my observations in life so far.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There’s zero hate in my post. That you feel hate may reflect more on the type of person you are. Your idea of hate are really just my observations in life so far.

Your post = Hate filled rant.

Yet you still want to guzzle your coffee grown by farmers in third world countries and oats grown by ordinary farmers here and elsewhere

Such posts are little more than disgusting hate filled rants. And you're surprised when others call them for what they are ...

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Your post = Hate filled rant.

Yet you still want to guzzle your coffee grown by farmers in third world countries and oats grown by ordinary farmers here and elsewhere

Such posts are little more than disgusting hate filled rants. And you're surprised when others call them for what they are ...

Can you stop accusing me of hate and apologise ?

NcdJd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Money money money.

That’s all the farmers care about.

Loads of examples on the farming forum.

Only recently a farmer was delighted when he young child responded to - what is a chicken ? Mooonnnneeeyyyyyy

I paraphrase the above. It’s how I remember it.

The forum itself is FULL of farmers deciding between money and putting an animal down. If there’s no profit the animal dies sooner than intended.

Anytime I read through some of the threads it’s clear what farmers want. More money. To say they care more about animals than money isn’t evidenced from anything I’ve read.

I remember being at secondary school and a lot of the farming children were pulled out once they could read well enough. No chance for the poor guys to go into any other industry. Can read good enough to fill out subsidy forms ? Then out you come. It was a real shame as 1-2 were capable of more but in fairness the rest didn’t have much about them and maybe the safety net of the farm was just as well.

Anyway. The public are now voting with their feet and money. It’s a good time when you see the savage industries rally in fear of losing money.

Farmers only care about money. People need to realise and except that.

What a ridiculous post. Of course farmers care about the price they get for their produce whether veg, grains or animals. Like any business or employee. The reason some of it is subsidised is to make it cheap for the likes of you and all other consumers to purchase. And no that is a very hate filled post. Good for you if that's the hatred you have for food producers.

_Brian

NcdJd wrote: »

What a ridiculous post. Of course farmers care about the price they get for their produce whether veg, grains or animals. Like any business or employee. The reason some of it is subsidised is to make it cheap for the likes of you and all other consumers to purchase. And no that is a very hate filled post. Good for you if that's the hatred you have for food producers.

Imagine not understanding that a job can have more than one serious priority, vegans must work at some serious simple stuff.

Gary kk

How much of your tax money goes towards farm subsidies? Anyone care to guess? Because it's no way near as much you would be lead to believe.

eviltwin

_Brian wrote: »

Imagine not understanding that a job can have more than one serious priority, vegans must work at some serious simple stuff.

Please don't lump us all in with the sentiments of that post, we aren't a hive mind.

_Brian

eviltwin wrote: »

Please don't lump us all in with the sentiments of that post, we aren't a hive mind.

Obviously that works both ways when damning footage or newspaper article is shared here.
As a farmer I’ve reported poor farming practice I’ve seen, can’t stand to see animals not treated to the best. My father used to say that the care of animals comes before humans because they didn’t choose to be farmed, that is our decision and it bears massive responsibility.

Gary kk

eviltwin wrote: »

Please don't lump us all in with the sentiments of that post, we aren't a hive mind.

Lol I don't know the way I hear it at parish pump....

ganmo

eviltwin wrote: »

Please don't lump us all in with the sentiments of that post, we aren't a hive mind.

Then challenge it!

It is too easy for klop and his like to dismiss farmers when we challenge the arguments.

Klop if you dont care about money I can send you an iban to send your wage to in future.

gozunda

Gary kk wrote: »

How much of your tax money goes towards farm subsidies? Anyone care to guess? Because it's no way near as much you would be lead to believe.

In 2019 nearly 3 million Euro was advanced to various types of privately run animal 'sanctuaries' in Ireland. This was net of money donated by individuals. Whilst I fully support animal welfare - the fact is that unlike farms - many of such type of operations are run without any controls or inspection. There was one not long ago boasting about giving chickens unapproved veterinary medications, others have been found keeping animals in appalling conditions. And yet time and time again threads like this descend solely into open attacks on all farmers. Some places certainly do good work - however what is also true is a certain proportion of these are little more than an excuse to set up an income stream with the aim of supposedly 'saving animals' or wtte.