Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

bucketybuck · 16-10-2020 08:53PM

charlie14 wrote: »

I can perfectly understand why they might be sceptical.
What I cannot understand is how anybody thinks we are going anywhere attempting to combat this without a vaccine.
There was never a vaccine for polio or many other conditions.
Do people somehow believe that we would have got those to the level they are without a vaccine

The OP said that he could not understand why people were convinced that a vaccine would not happen.

We have now clarified that there has never, ever been a vaccine for this type of virus and that a successful vaccine has never, ever been developed as quickly as people are suggesting it will be. So I would suggest that it is very obvious why rational people would think that a vaccine in the next year is a pipedream, and that such a position is eminently understandable.

What I cannot understand is how anybody thinks we are going anywhere attempting to combat this without a vaccine.

But what if it turns out that we have no choice?

What if no vaccine ever comes and all we can do is combat it without a vaccine? To deal with it as best we can in other ways?

Hope for the best, plan for the worst. I think it is very obvious why there is a real possibility of no vaccine in the next 4/5 years so are we not better to make plans now and start to deal with that?

Silentcorner · 16-10-2020 08:53PM

MadYaker wrote: »

I’d love some elaboration on how the pandemic has been over since May? I’ve seen some wild takes in this thread but that’s one of the wildest. Though I don’t expect a proper explanation, just a glib comment.

We experienced a pandemic in March/April, just look at the rapid spike in ICU beds, and the rise in death rates (for people WITH covid)...it dropped off in May and we haven't witnessed any spikes at all since then, not in deaths or ICU occupancy, what we are witnessing now is an uptick in positive tests for two reasons, the amount of people we are testing and it is the time of year when these kinds of viruses spread.

We will not see a return to the fairly dramatic spikes we saw in March/April.

We have no idea what 1,000 positive cases actually look like, as a fairly large percentage wouldn't have known they were even sick, we are not being told this number for some reason.

Back in March/April, we had no idea how many people actually would have tested positive as we were only testing people with two or more symptoms.

Like I said, you'd want to avoid catching this virus, but the chances are, a lot more of us have probably encountered it without even knowing.

pjohnson · 16-10-2020 08:54PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

The OP said that he could not understand why people were convinced that a vaccine would not happen.

We have now clarified that there has never, ever been a vaccine for this type of virus and that a successful vaccine has never, ever been developed as quickly as people are suggesting it will be. So I would suggest that it is very obvious why rational people would think that a vaccine in the next year is a pipedream, and that such a position is eminently understandable.

But what if it turns out that we have no choice?

What if no vaccine ever comes and all we can do is combat it without a vaccine? To deal with it as best we can in other ways?

Hope for the best, plan for the worst. I think it is very obvious why there is a real possibility of no vaccine in the next 4/5 years so are we not better to make plans now and start to deal with that?

More hysterical fearmongering about the vaccine in the "calm" thread.

manniot2 · 16-10-2020 08:54PM

Lads close this thread. The ball is burst, we have lost, the lockdown is going nowhere may as well suck it up and stop torturing yourselves.

Micky 32 · 16-10-2020 08:59PM

walus wrote: »

That I would be certain of as well, just as I’m certain that machines will have a super level of intelligence. The question is when? And that is the important piece of information.

And because the vaccine for corona virus has never been developed before, it is best to assume that it will take longer than we anticipate. A cognitive fallacy we all are prone to.

So basically your conclusion isn’t based on research but a pulled out bumhole opinion?

bucketybuck · 16-10-2020 09:06PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I have clearly and repeatedly said that I am breaking no rules.

I guess its hard to think you are breaking rules if you don't think they apply to you in the first place.

You lambast others while travelling to work despite being fully able to work from home. The government announces a ban on household visits and you proudly state that you are going to visit another home. You denigrate all and sundry while inventing tenuous reasons why you should be allowed to do what they should not, and when called out on it you ignore reality and claim to do no wrong.

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

charlie14 · 16-10-2020 09:11PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

The OP said that he could not understand why people were convinced that a vaccine would not happen.

We have now clarified that there has never, ever been a vaccine for this type of virus and that a successful vaccine has never, ever been developed as quickly as people are suggesting it will be. So I would suggest that it is very obvious why rational people would think that a vaccine in the next year is a pipedream, and that such a position is eminently understandable.

But what if it turns out that we have no choice?

What if no vaccine ever comes and all we can do is combat it without a vaccine? To deal with it as best we can in other ways?

Hope for the best, plan for the worst. I think it is very obvious why there is a real possibility of no vaccine in the next 4/5 years so are we not better to make plans now and start to deal with that?

If you wish to totally ignore all the development level some of these vaccines are at and are presently going through rolling safety and efficacy examinations by the E.U., with others close to that stage, then that position would be understandable.
But that is just putting fingers in ears really.

Bit silly and childish imo seeing as there is not a shred of evidence that there is any other viable way of combating this virus.

charlie14 · 16-10-2020 09:17PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

If you want to have a chat with someone else about hospital capacity off you go. I pointed out you were misunderstood on a virus being disease.

Well at least you confirmed it was nit picking and nothing to do with the substantive points of my post

charlie14 · 16-10-2020 09:25PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Cases and a pandemic aren’t the same thing. Basic stuff

Funny, I always believed it was based on a worldwide spread.
I would of thought a worldwide spread of cases for a virus we have no immunity for would have qualified as a pandemic but apparently not.
Why did the WHO define it as a pandemic so ?
Simple basic question.

bucketybuck · 16-10-2020 09:29PM

charlie14 wrote: »

If you wish to totally ignore all the development level some of these vaccines are at and are presently going through rolling safety and efficacy examinations by the E.U., with others close to that stage, then that position would be understandable.
But that is just putting fingers in ears really.

Bit silly and childish imo seeing as there is not a shred of evidence that there is any other viable way of combating this virus.

Be as patronising as you wish, I am not ignoring anything, I simply have a different opinion and do not feel a vaccine is either as close as people want to believe or will be the silver bullet that people want it to be.

And again you seem to miss the point regarding other options. You say there no viable way of combating the virus other than with a vaccine.

Ok. You are correct. Only a vaccine will combat the virus. Now tell me what we should do if a vaccine does not come or does not work?

normanoffside · 16-10-2020 09:32PM

So we have around 260 of 11,000 Public hospital beds (<4% despite our Sh1te public health system) occupied by patients with covid.

Surge capacity hasn't been invoked and wasn't need in the first wave.
Deaths with covid are still very small.

80% of cases have no sypmtoms according to a prominent member of NPHET and yet we need to lock down the whole country.

It's just total madness.

normanoffside · 16-10-2020 09:37PM

Can someone put Turbidy down please.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 16-10-2020 09:38PM

walus wrote: »

The herd immunity programme is already running, if you did not notice. The mother nature is doing its own thing as it has been for thousands of years. That is how we managed to survive to this day. Interfering with that could have disastrous consequences in the future. And vaccine can only be used to support it.

There are many viruses that are only controlled via vaccine-related herd immunity. It’s why we’re seeing outbreaks of measles as anti-vaccination ideas take hold. Pre-vaccines, humans “survived” by many people dying of diseases. That’s not something to aspire to. Immunity acquired via vaccine, where immunity is built up without illness being caused is the only proper way to do it.

charlie14 · 16-10-2020 09:54PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Be as patronising as you wish, I am not ignoring anything, I simply have a different opinion and do not feel a vaccine is either as close as people want to believe or will be the silver bullet that people want it to be.

And again you seem to miss the point regarding other options. You say there no viable way of combating the virus other than with a vaccine.

Ok. You are correct. Only a vaccine will combat the virus. Now tell me what we should do if a vaccine does not come or does not work?

I really wasn`t being patronising.
I just find it rather silly and childish for people to purposely ignore the research, development and verification stages vaccines are at.
I believe the only option we have is a vaccine. And have said so many times.
Should it not be people who have no belief we will ever have a vaccine that need to say what they see as a solution ?

walus · 16-10-2020 10:04PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

So basically your conclusion isn’t based on research but a pulled out bumhole opinion?

It is based on research in behavioural economics and decision making. And I very much doubt that Daniel Kahneman has pulled that out of his back side.

bucketybuck · 16-10-2020 10:05PM

charlie14 wrote: »

I believe the only option we have is a vaccine. And have said so many times.

And you have no opinion about what we should do in say, December 2021 if a workable vaccine still has not arrived?

16-10-2020 10:07PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I guess its hard to think you are breaking rules if you don't think they apply to you in the first

The rules apply to everyone hence why I don’t break them unlike many posting in this thread.

bucketybuck wrote: »

You lambast others while travelling to work despite being fully able to work from home.

You see this is there you are having reading issues, I have responded to you at least 3 times when you have made this statement highlighting that I cannot do all of my work remotely, there are aspects that require me to be onsite to work work on hardware hands on. I am in what is considered an essential industry but never actually used this to go to work during the lockdown. I went in for about 3 weeks across 2 months when cases were low to catch up on some things. I am back on fully working from home as I have sorted the on-site stuff for now and even though I have documents proving I am working in an essential industry I do not intend going to work again for quite a while (I much prefer working from home anyway BUT as I said I cannot do 100% of my job remotely).

bucketybuck wrote: »

The government announces a ban on household visits and you proudly state that you are going to visit another home. You denigrate all and sundry while inventing tenuous reasons why you should be allowed to do what they should not, and when called out on it you ignore reality and claim to do no wrong.

I invented nothing, are you trying to claim I invented farming and then personally declared it an essential reason to travel? You are talking absolute sh1t. I also “proudly” announced nothing, I was asked by you and answered truthfully I could just as easily have lied.

Galwayguy35 · 16-10-2020 10:10PM

normanoffside wrote: »

So we have around 260 of 11,000 Public hospital beds (<4% despite our Sh1te public health system) occupied by patients with covid.

Surge capacity hasn't been invoked and wasn't need in the first wave.
Deaths with covid are still very small.

80% of cases have no sypmtoms according to a prominent member of NPHET and yet we need to lock down the whole country.

It's just total madness.

We should have realised the government would cave in eventually to Tonys wishes.

The lads in NPHET will still get their pay cheque even if the economy tanks.

Rrrrrr2 · 16-10-2020 10:13PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Can someone put Turbidy down please.

Are people still watching that utter scutter? Late late show is dead

charlie14 · 16-10-2020 10:15PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

And you have no opinion about what we should do in say, December 2021 if a workable vaccine still has not arrived?

I would expect at least one vaccine being sanctioned before that. Possibly even before the end of 2020.
Why do want me to speculate on what would happen if we do not have a vaccine befor the end off 2021.
I have said I see no other viable option of combating this virus other than a vaccine.
You appear not to believe so, so what is your solution ?

normanoffside · 16-10-2020 10:18PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Are people still watching that utter scutter? Late late show is dead

Henry Shefflin was just talking about bringing food up to homeless people in Dublin last week.
Ryan's first instinct was to clarify that the travel was 'restriction friendly' FFS.

Rrrrrr2 · 16-10-2020 10:21PM

charlie14 wrote: »

I would expect at least one vaccine being sanctioned before that. Possibly even before the end of 2020.
Why do want me to speculate on what would happen if we do not have a vaccine befor the end off 2021.
I have said I see no other viable option of combating this virus other than a vaccine.
You appear not to believe so, so what is your solution ?

Looks like Pfizer have something in the offing https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/pfizer-to-seek-fda-approval-for-covid-19-vaccine-in-november-1.4382844%3fmode=amp

As anyone can read here I’m absolutely against lockdowns as they don’t work so i sincerely hope it all comes to pass sooner than we fear

Rrrrrr2 · 16-10-2020 10:22PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Henry Shefflin was just talking about bringing food up to homeless people in Dublin last week.
Ryan's first instinct was to clarify that the travel was 'restriction friendly' FFS.

Both points are equally nauseating really...the virtue signalling must be in overdrive tonight. Tubs is an absolute muppet.
Why does the world need to know Henry brings food to Dublin from Kilkenny for the homeless? Why couldn’t that be done discretely?

dalyboy · 16-10-2020 10:29PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I could not even fathom why a person would want to go somewhere other than here. As bad as things are getting we are still managing better than most. I couldn’t imagine why you would want to go somewhere open and mix with people. Mind boggling.

This is why we need to close the airports.

pal, this isn’t North Korea you know.

I’ve an Irish passport EU member and I’ll go where I want and no fake casedemic will stop me.

Ok ???????

MadYaker · 16-10-2020 10:37PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Be as patronising as you wish, I am not ignoring anything, I simply have a different opinion and do not feel a vaccine is either as close as people want to believe or will be the silver bullet that people want it to be.

And again you seem to miss the point regarding other options. You say there no viable way of combating the virus other than with a vaccine.

Ok. You are correct. Only a vaccine will combat the virus. Now tell me what we should do if a vaccine does not come or does not work?

What are you talking about? There are multiple vaccines currently in late stage trials. It’s not a case of believing. It’s a certainty that we will have one, might have a few different ones. You’re literally denying reality here.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/pfizer-to-seek-fda-approval-for-covid-19-vaccine-in-november-1.4382844?mode=amp

charlie14 · 16-10-2020 10:44PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Looks like Pfizer have something in the offing https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/pfizer-to-seek-fda-approval-for-covid-19-vaccine-in-november-1.4382844%3fmode=amp

As anyone can read here I’m absolutely against lockdowns as they don’t work so i sincerely hope it all comes to pass sooner than we fear

Saw that and it`s not just FDA approval. There appears to be a strong belief their vaccine will be approved by the E.U. as well. Possibly as early as mid November.

AstraZeneca are an Anglo/Swedish company and from recent announcements by Swedish authorities sounds as if they have a bit of inside info expecting to have 6 million doses early next year of their vaccine.

walus · 16-10-2020 10:47PM

charlie14 wrote: »

I would expect at least one vaccine being sanctioned before that. Possibly even before the end of 2020.
Why do want me to speculate on what would happen if we do not have a vaccine befor the end off 2021.
I have said I see no other viable option of combating this virus other than a vaccine.
You appear not to believe so, so what is your solution ?

When do you expect to be getting your jab then?

MadYaker · 16-10-2020 10:51PM

walus wrote: »

When do you expect to be getting your jab then?

Healthcare workers first, then people most at risk, then the rest of us. The actual rollout will be more detailed than that but that’s basically how it will work. Most of us are relatively young and healthy so I’d say late next year for us hopefully.

charlie14 · 16-10-2020 10:54PM

walus wrote: »

When do you expect to be getting your jab then?

There will be a priority list which I expect I will be well down that list.
Still expect to get it long before anyone here comes up with a credible alternative.

Tenzor07 · 16-10-2020 10:55PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Healthcare workers first, then people most at risk, then the rest of us. The actual rollout will be more detailed than that but that’s basically how it will work. Most of us are relatively young and healthy so I’d say late next year for us hopefully.

Oh sounds great, however you say "Most of us are relatively young and healthy"... does that mean we don't need the vaccine as soon as it rolls out, if so why, I don't want to wait and be in danger?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings