Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

patnor1011

weldoninhio wrote: »

Got a warning for saying I was getting takeout pints and going to a friends house tonight as it’s “against regulations” as per a mod. I presume the motoring thread will be full of bans tomorrow for anyone admitting driving above the speed limit and anyone who admits drinking more than 3 Pints ever will get a warning about “guidelines”.

And some people can outright call you an idiot and nothing happens to them.

SusieBlue

I know of more than one person going to bed full of anxiety and worry tonight that they’ll be shortly laid off work again because of level 5, and panicking about how they’re going to buy Santa presents for their kids, cover Christmas expenses & pay their rent on another 6 weeks of the PUP payment.

These ‘leaks’ are absolutely unacceptable, the government need to grow a pair and make clear what the plan is instead of having innocent people living in a state of constant anxiety, not knowing whether they’ll have a job come Monday or not.
It’s not reasonable for them to be dangling carrots like this.
These are real people’s lives and they deserve better than constant leaks to the media before having to wait days for the official government statement about whether they’re still employed or not.
I’m so angry tonight. What a joke of a country.

If they’re going to do it, just fcuking do it, but enough of these leaks putting more stress and anxiety on the most financially vulnerable members of our workforce.

patnor1011

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

My opinion is as it was the last time NPHET recommended level 5 the government are stupidly waiting for the midterm (which will be extended) before declaring level 5 so that the schools are off also for at least the first 2 weeks of level 5.

It’s beyond stupid though. They should be closing schools from Monday and going into level 5 from midnight Sunday night at the latest. All we are doing by waiting is prolonging everything, the sooner we properly lock down the sooner we come out of it.

The other possibility is they are trying to get legalisation through on making the restrictions laws before declaring level 5 and being able to fine those who break the restrictions. This is a vital step too as can be seen in this thread there are a lot of ignorant people who are not only breaking the current guidelines but they are proud of the fact. A nice big fine would wipe the smirk off their faces.

There is a lot of things beyond stupid here. Some people should turn off computer and TV and take a walk outside. There they can find out world did not cease to exist.

acequion

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

My opinion is as it was the last time NPHET recommended level 5 the government are stupidly waiting for the midterm (which will be extended) before declaring level 5 so that the schools are off also for at least the first 2 weeks of level 5.

It’s beyond stupid though. They should be closing schools from Monday and going into level 5 from midnight Sunday night at the latest. All we are doing by waiting is prolonging everything, the sooner we properly lock down the sooner we come out of it.

The other possibility is they are trying to get legalisation through on making the restrictions laws before declaring level 5 and being able to fine those who break the restrictions. This is a vital step too as can be seen in this thread there are a lot of ignorant people who are not only breaking the current guidelines but they are proud of the fact. A nice big fine would wipe the smirk off their faces.

Jesus but the arrogance of this post is staggering! :eek:

You'd have the whole place locked down by Sunday night would you!!
Zero regard for people's plans.
Zero regard for people's need to get organised.
Zero regard for the anxiety, not to mention chaos this will cause.
Zero regard for people with businesses.
Zero regard for people's livelihoods.
Zero regard for people full stop.

What a contemptible attitude! And you call people ignorant!

Rrrrrr2

acequion wrote: »

Jesus but the arrogance of this post is staggering! :eek:

You'd have the whole place locked down by Sunday night would you!!
Zero regard for people's plans.
Zero regard for people's need to get organised.
Zero regard for the anxiety, not to mention chaos this will cause.
Zero regard for people with businesses.
Zero regard for people's livelihoods.
Zero regard for people full stop.

What a contemptible attitude! And you call people ignorant!

I can’t really take that poster seriously. It’s the same ole stuff on loop. Go lock yourself in an attic somewhere is all I think to these people. I’m passed caring.

Plumbthedepths

191 pages in and people are still feeding it.

Penfailed

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Are people still watching that utter scutter? Late late show is dead

I'm trying to figure out who this Turbidy fella is!

Rrrrrr2

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out who this Turbidy fella is!

Dracula’s Irish cousin

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out who this Turbidy fella is!

Not really. I'm messin'.

Plumbthedepths

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out who this Turbidy fella is!

Best you don't. He's a sanctimonious pr*ck suckling at the teet of the Irish TV licence fee payer.

hynesie08

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

My opinion is as it was the last time NPHET recommended level 5 the government are stupidly waiting for the midterm (which will be extended) before declaring level 5 so that the schools are off also for at least the first 2 weeks of level 5.

It’s beyond stupid though. They should be closing schools from Monday and going into level 5 from midnight Sunday night at the latest. All we are doing by waiting is prolonging everything, the sooner we properly lock down the sooner we come out of it.

The other possibility is they are trying to get legalisation through on making the restrictions laws before declaring level 5 and being able to fine those who break the restrictions. This is a vital step too as can be seen in this thread there are a lot of ignorant people who are not only breaking the current guidelines but they are proud of the fact. A nice big fine would wipe the smirk off their faces.

No kids
Wages not affected
Breaking guidelines to see your parents...


Yeah, there's a reason no one takes your opinion seriously......

acequion

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

I can’t really take that poster seriously. It’s the same ole stuff on loop. Go lock yourself in an attic somewhere is all I think to these people. I’m passed caring.

Agreed. And as a regular reader of this thread I'd be aware of the ilk of that poster. But on nights like tonight when many of us are really anxious and up late fretting over yet more disastrous "leaks" and what it might all mean, such posts really grate.

PTH2009

Has the government been asked about Mental Health in regards to the virus?

Plumbthedepths

acequion wrote: »

Agreed. And as a regular reader of this thread I'd be aware of the ilk of that poster. But on nights like tonight when many of us are really anxious and up late fretting over yet more disastrous "leaks" and what it might all mean, such posts really grate.

I like to remind people said poster got banned off a thread for claiming it was ok to drink alcohol while driving once under the limit. Of course the intellect to realise you were slowly exceeding the limit whilst drink driving was lost on said poster. You really should not give him the oxygen he craves. I have no desire for an echo chamber but some posters should ignored out of hand.

Rrrrrr2

PTH2009 wrote: »

Has the government been asked about Mental Health in regards to the virus?

Well it hasn’t cost them a thought so far tbh

charlie14

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its a very straightforward question, you don't have to answer it if you don't want to, but it is telling that you don't. It is also a very important question and I certainly hope those in power are discussing it and making contingencies. Do you really think that a vaccine is the be all and end all and that mankind is doomed without it? I doubt you do, but if you would rather deflect the question then fair enough.

As to the current trials, it shouldn't need to be said that trials are not a proven vaccine and most certainly not when they are trials for something that has never actually been done before. You see 3rd stage trials and I see red flags, undue influence and accidents waiting to happen.

As for solutions, I have stated mine already in this thread, I believe we would be better served accepting certain realities and then acting accordingly. I think we need to learn to live with the virus, and I don't mean the current farce of "living" with the virus, I mean a society that fully positions itself to coexist with the virus.

As an example, we know very well who is at risk from this virus. I would stop wasting billions of euros on ineffective restrictions and I would direct those billions of euros directly at those at risk groups. Imagine those billions going into nursing homes and really giving the elderly a safe quality of life? Is that not more productive than trying to close a border with 300 crossing points? I know I would have no problem paying extra taxes or levies to pursue options like that, just as I know that I won't be paying **** all if my business closes down.

As I said before, the big irony is that we will reach that point anyway. You may not wish to discuss it but unless the worlds first ever vaccine for a coronavirus wins the record for the worlds fastest ever developed vaccine, then learn to live with this virus is what we will all be doing, like it or not.

Not as straight forward as you are attempting to portray it, but fair play you put a bit if effort into that. I particularly enjoyed the "mankind is doomed without it".
We both know mankind is not on the verge of distinction due to this virus.
We also know that there are large numbers that are vulnerable who due to age or who being immuncompromised will never achieve immunity. In other words they will need to be shielded from this virus by those that can acquire immunity.


Only two ways of achieving such herd immunity. Naturally or by means of vaccination. Herd immunity anywhere it has been attempted for this virus just has not worked. Even when the numbers were supposedly correct it did not work. Simple reason. Nobody knows how to measure for it, what level of immunity it gives or how long it lasts.
Vaccines have none of those problems.


The present vaccines in development are going through the same stages of trials as always and will go through the same independent verification by the relevant authorities, FDA,EMA etc on safety and efficacy.
You can see red flag for Phase 3 of vaccines if that makes you happy. I see Phase 3, similar to all other clinical trials as vaccines that are showing a lot of promise and are getting ever closer to the finish line.


There are, as a rough estimate, 20% off our population in the vulnerable category, 14% alone are over 65.
Not all that 20% live in nursing homes. At most 3%.
The rest live in the community. To somehow believe regardless of how many billions you throw at the 3% in nursing homes and the 17% in the community you will shield them from infections while "living with Covid" is simply magical thinking.


The only way, and the way to save money and have a functioning economy, is not through "living with Covid". It`s by means of herd immunity.
That as I have said can only be achieved in two ways.

One through acquired immunity that requires letting the virus run loose for an indefinite period of time, where we cannot even measure when or if it is at the required level, or how long that level will last.
The other, a vaccine, is through a means that we know has worked previously, where we will know the numbers required, and we will know how long the immunity lasts.


Now before anyone starts jumping all over this, I do not expect the first vaccines to 100% provide herd immunity, but hopefully I am wrong in that. But I expect them to provide a much greater level than we have at the moment. Which is 0% or as close as makes no difference.

Plumbthedepths

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Well it hasn’t cost them a thought so far tbh

I going to be honest, I have sympathy for the government at the moment. No matter what they do they are going to get it in the neck. They have a balancing act to try and work through. Nphet has undermined them several times Social Media is driving the hysteria . Pragmatism tells a person this crap will end but the consequences will endure for some time. A competent person will try to mitigate the long term consequences but the hysteria is hard to deal with. Granny killer is not a label any long term public representative wants.

charlie14

patnor1011 wrote: »

Be a gent. Name one vaccine in trials which will guarantee you will not get infected with covid.
Pretty please. Just one.

I can name me a few where it is a distinct possibility.
Can you name me anything other than a vaccine that offers even a remote possibility of not getting infected.

Plumbthedepths

charlie14 wrote: »

I can name me a few where it is a distinct possibility.
Can you name me anything other than a vaccine that offers even a remote possibility of not getting infected.

To be honest anything I have read to date suggests a 'vaccine' will lessen the effects of Covid but will not eliminate the possibility of getting infected.

charlie14

Tenzor07 wrote: »

There ya go with the usual BS response..

The Vaccine isn't the ultimate panacea as you seem to think...

Go boil an egg.

Yet you have absolutely no other credible alternative.
Btw, Just making noise is not a credible alternative. It`s not even a credible form of debate.

MadYaker

patnor1011 wrote: »

Be a gent. Name one vaccine in trials which will guarantee you will not get infected with covid.
Pretty please. Just one.

The purpose of a vaccine is to prepare your immune system so it recognises the virus and can eradicate it before it makes you ill or before it has propagated enough for you to spread it to someone else. So technically you are correct, in a way? Not sure what point you are trying to make though.

charlie14

patnor1011 wrote: »

You failed to realize that some of what you call well-informed posters do not have any medical background and their only ability is to google stuff which they then copy paste.
I get it. You people are frightened and to alleviate your own fears you try to project them on others. It does not always work.

Vaccine is your straw at this moment. Vaccine has a magical ring to it. Most certainly with reference to covid. People for some strange reason started to believe that we will be getting some scientific miracle where one or two doses will make us immune to this "deadly indiscriminate killer".

"A drowning man will clutch at a straw."
Prov. When you are desperate, you will look for anything that might help you, even if it cannot help you very much.

Some posters may, but if you believe that to be the case then it should be very simple for you to expose that.

If you are going to make another attempt at that on the vaccine thread then it will have to be better than a rant about Bill Gates I`m afraid.


At the very least a straw is tangible. You have shown nothing that even touches on a credible alternative.

charlie14

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

To be honest anything I have read to date suggests a 'vaccine' will lessen the effects of Covid but will not eliminate the possibility of getting infected.

I did say for the first vaccines I was not expecting 100% immunity.

If they can lessen the effects to that of a cold or even a flu, (but hopefully a cold as the common cold is part of the general coronavirus family as far as I know) then they would go a long way towards saving lives.

acequion

charlie14 wrote: »

Yet you have absolutely no other credible alternative.
Btw, Just making noise is not a credible alternative. It`s not even a credible form of debate.

I tend to agree. I'm not scientific and willingly admit that I know very little about vaccines, but there really is no alternative as an end or even as a beginning to an end to this.

And with the handling of this crisis being so dire in Ireland, where the only response is hysteria and lockdowns or the constant threat of lockdowns, the hope for a vaccine is a lifeline. In other countries they've managed the balance so much better and can endure this for longer. We're literally suffocating.

Plumbthedepths

charlie14 wrote: »

I did say for the first vaccines I was not expecting 100% immunity.

If they can lessen the effects to that of a cold or even a flu, (but hopefully a cold as the common cold is part of the general coronavirus family as far as I know) then they would go a long way towards saving lives.

My son informed me today a good friend of his tested positive. The symptoms were a sore throat, headache and loss of taste. He still went for a 10 k run .

MadYaker

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My son informed me today a good friend of his tested positive. The symptoms were a sore throat, headache and loss of taste. He still went for a 10 k run .

I hope he didn't infect anyone on his 10k run, puffing and panting. That's a funny way to self isolate. Your son should ditch this fella he sounds like a gobsh!te.

charlie14

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My son informed me today a good friend of his tested positive. The symptoms were a sore throat, headache and loss of taste. He still went for a 10 k run .

For many of the younger generation it is no worse than a cold.

If a vaccine could reduce it to that level for those most at risk it would be a major plus.


One thing about this virus, and if it`s mentioned it is shouted down as "longcovid" but there is growing evidence that it is a nasty bugger that could have long term health implication. Anything that could lessen that possibility would be welcome as well. Not that your sons friend will have anything to worry about. His symptoms are mild and he sounds like a lad in good shape.


Sorry to read about the hassle your young lad and his friends got. I genuinely feel sorry for young people growing up in this mess. Like every group they have their messers, but that is no reason to simply jump to conclusions and tar everyone with the same brush.
He was right to tell her to f off.

MadYaker

In fairness the % of people who experience long covid is tiny. It'll be interesting to see why this is a thing as the virus continues to be studied over the next few years.

Plumbthedepths

MadYaker wrote: »

I hope he didn't infect anyone on his 10k run, puffing and panting. That's a funny way to self isolate. Your son should ditch this fella he sounds like a gobsh!te.

Get a dictionary and look up Rural .

Plumbthedepths

MadYaker wrote: »

In fairness the % of people who experience long covid is tiny. It'll be interesting to see why this is a thing as the virus continues to be studied over the next few years.

You could always read up on the bodies reaction to viral infection. You seem interested in learning outside of hysteria.