Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Gradius · 13-10-2020 02:31PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Health Minister Stephen Donnelly has faced a lot of criticism for his management of the Covid-19 pandemic since he has taken office.

But he has now secured a substantial budget package for the health service which will leave him with little excuses for people being forced to wait on trolleys in hospital corridors if he can manage the extra resources properly.

Half of the €4bn he has been allocated in the budget is to go towards 1,146 acute hospital beds and 321 intensive care beds. He is also getting an additional 1,250 community hospital beds and 600 rehabilitation beds.

The funding will also provide for a massive 16,000 additional health service posts across the sector. If all goes according to plan, the investment may significantly reform the health service and Mr Donnelly may be forgiven for his gaffe-filled interviews.

If the billions of euros don't make a difference, people will naturally start asking if he's up to the job. - Philip Ryan

No excuse now. Open up the country. (the classic)

Of course throwing money at a virus will make no difference. Short term, yes, but what about next January, next Christmas?

May as well tell people to stick a 5 euro note up their hole to placate the virus.

As long as there's no plan, there's no point.

And opening up the country is not a plan, it's just a quicker way to reach rock bottom.

bucketybuck · 13-10-2020 02:35PM

Libski wrote: »

Do you realise that this is more contagious and deadly?

Why are you repeatedly dropping one liners into the thread?

Plumbthedepths · 13-10-2020 02:40PM

Libski wrote: »

Do you realise that this is more contagious and deadly?

Correct it is very contagious, but deadly to a very small percentage of the population.

4068ac1elhodqr · 13-10-2020 02:46PM

Gradius wrote: »

There's as much chance of "free" money for everyone as there is Elvis appearing with a covid vaccine live on stage.

It is completely and utterly unworkable. Give everyone a tenner for nothing, watch prices rise in step.

UBI (thanks to covid) isn't just simple free money, it's money made available for folks to use and work with (enterprise, training, investment) to then earn even more (non-free) money, all risk free.

Hyperinflation certainly is the risk factor, so would naturally need tools to control this. Even then benefits outweight risks.

Gradius · 13-10-2020 02:54PM

Natalie Thankful Welt wrote: »

UBI (thanks to covid) isn't just simple free money, it's money made available for folks to use and work with (enterprise, training, investment) to then earn even more (non-free) money, all risk free.

Hyperinflation certainly is the risk factor, so would naturally need tools to control this. Even then benefits outweight risks.

If everyone in Ireland were given a million euros each, how long would it take before

1) a Mars bar costs 50 euro?
2) there's a siege of conmen and opportunists from every nook of the world into the country?

Even with the social welfare system now you can see it's deleterious effects.

"Money" is simply a scale of relativity, everything will rebalance immediately.

Give everyone 100 grand to buy a home, the price of homes will rise by 100 grand.

Ditto if you halved the value of money in the country, only in reverse.

Safeguarding against relativity is like safeguarding against gravity, it is contrary to the very nature of the thing.

4068ac1elhodqr · 13-10-2020 03:02PM

Gradius wrote: »

If everyone in Ireland were given a million euros each...

Meanwhile back in reality...

The likely figure would be just marginally above the standard, average single person welfare rate. Also some folks (with 6kids and 2 horses) would be worse for wear as a result.

Many states and regions have trialled it already, are hoping to put it to the test, or roll it out. Indeed it's not much different from current covid suppliments, grants and furlong type payments, but with much more security for the individual.

It's largely inevitable.

Penfailed · 13-10-2020 03:05PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Don’t know. After the first callback his opinion was maybe they didn’t test right or was tested too soo etc.... he asked when being tested but the person said words to the effect “I just do the testing, you’ll have to ask the HSE” and then a week later a third appointment was received via txt, but no answer from the HSE as to why he’s being called back!

Might be a mix up, but judging by the non response to me mentioning it here, it doesn’t appear to be a widespread issue anyway

Is this from the Track and Trace app? Maybe he is continually coming into contact with positive cases...?

Gradius · 13-10-2020 03:08PM

Natalie Thankful Welt wrote: »

Meanwhile back in reality...

The likely figure would be just marginally above the standard, average rate of single person welfare rate. Also some folks (with 6kids and 2 horses) would be worse for wear as a result.

Many states and regions have trialled it already, are hoping to put it to the test, or roll it out. Indeed it's not much different from current covid suppliments, grants and furlong type payments, but with much more security for the individual.

It's largely inevitable.

Giving people the social welfare plus wages will negate the idea of social welfare.

If average dude has hundreds more euros disposable cash each week it will raise the cost of everything, thereby making the person reliant on social welfare significantly poorer.

The only inevitability of free money is the devaluation of money.

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 03:11PM

Gradius wrote: »

Of course throwing money at a virus will make no difference. Short term, yes, but what about next January, next Christmas?

May as well tell people to stick a 5 euro note up their hole to placate the virus.

As long as there's no plan, there's no point.

And opening up the country is not a plan, it's just a quicker way to reach rock bottom.

You have this obsession with a plan.

Whole country put on level 3 last week, how is the PLAN to reduce new cases going there?

Your NZ internal quarantine, eradicate, external quarantine plan will have us begging IMF for money in matter of months.

So the only 2 options are

1) destroy economy to 20 - 25% unemployment levels with huge borrowings, while trying to "save" lives.

2) re open the country and carry on.

Before you say internal quarantine external quarantine etc. that goes into option 1.

Gradius · 13-10-2020 03:12PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You have this obsession with a plan.

Whole country put on level 3 last week, how is the PLAN to reduce new cases going there?

Your NZ internal quarantine, eradicate, external quarantine plan will have us begging IMF for money in matter of months.

So the only 2 options are

1) destroy economy to 20 - 25% unemployment levels with huge borrowings, while trying to "save" lives.

2) re open the country and carry on.

Before you say internal quarantine external quarantine etc. that goes into option 1.

Wrong.

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 03:14PM

Gradius wrote: »

Wrong.

Great come back.

Perhaps there is a 3rd option you want to share with us?

When and if you do, bear in mind that since 1st of July less than 1 person has died with covid on average per day. Please try to avoid using your classic "death spiral", it is quite misleading, currently anyways.

4068ac1elhodqr · 13-10-2020 03:22PM

Gradius wrote: »

Giving people the social welfare plus wages will negate the idea of social welfare.

Or not.

It will offer a safety net, less paperwork, less risk, less inefficiency and thousands of less wasted labour resources on admin pen pushers.
This week S.Korea is making plans to push it.

Also recommended for the Great Reset:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/covid-19-universal-basic-income-social-inequality/

The future enconomy is that of a 'gig-economy'.

Gradius · 13-10-2020 03:22PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Great come back.

Perhaps there is a 3rd option you want to share with us?

When and if you do, bear in mind that since 1st of July less than 1 person has died with covid per day. Please try to avoid using your classic "death spiral", it is quite misleading, currently anyways.

There is a 3rd option. I gave it already.

Returning the economy, albeit to a reduced state, by eradicating the virus through quarantine is in no way similar to endless lockdowns.

When I say "death spiral" I'm referring to everything as a whole. The loss of money, the restrictions on normal lives, the fear, the monotony, the degradation of health services etc. All swirling around the plug hole to inevitability.

Opening up the country will achieve the exact same as lockdowns. People walk around as normal while the virus accelerates, making a lot of people sick, putting the health system under and forcing business closed. Same result.

It's that goddamn simple.

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 03:26PM

Gradius wrote: »

There is a 3rd option. I gave it already.

Returning the economy, albeit to a reduced state, by eradicating the virus through quarantine is in no way similar to endless lockdowns.

When I say "death spiral" I'm referring to everything as a whole. The loss of money, the restrictions on normal lives, the fear, the monotony, the degradation of health services etc. All swirling around the plug hole to inevitability.

Opening up the country will achieve the exact same as lockdowns. People walk around as normal while the virus accelerates, making a lot of people sick, putting the health system under and forcing business closed. Same result.

It's that goddamn simple.

My only regret is that you started to post these classics in this thread only recently. I wish you were posting in May and June, your creative ideas.

ShyMets · 13-10-2020 03:26PM

Umm, anyone else think that a certain poster who espouses lockdown is using few different accounts on this thread

Gradius · 13-10-2020 03:28PM

Natalie Thankful Welt wrote: »

Or not.

It will offer a safety net, less paperwork, less risk, less inefficiency and thousands of less wasted labour resources on admin pen pushers.

This week S.Korea is planning to push it.

Also recommended for the Great Reset:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/covid-19-universal-basic-income-social-inequality/

People will die by the billions before it makes any sense, thereby proving it doesn't make any sense anyway.

It's a simple as this: if you, as an entity, exist only to take and not contribute, are essentially an unbalancing element, you will be "expunged". Just like nature, if you have no place in the order of things, you don't hang around too long.

It's not going to work out. Just see what happens when the actual money runs out.

Libski · 13-10-2020 03:29PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why are you repeatedly dropping one liners into the thread?

I don't feel the need to rabbit on and on.

Libski · 13-10-2020 03:30PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Correct it is very contagious, but deadly to a very small percentage of the population.

Do you agree with C19 restrictions?

bucketybuck · 13-10-2020 03:32PM

Gradius wrote: »

Returning the economy, albeit to a reduced state, by eradicating the virus through quarantine is in no way similar to endless lockdowns.

It also doesn't work.

A pesky little detail I know.

Gradius · 13-10-2020 03:35PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

My only regret is that you started to post these classics in this thread only recently. I wish you were posting in May and June, your creative ideas.

If the fools-that-be had taken my suggested course of action 4 months ago, we would likely be grumbling about the loss of some money and some jobs and no holidays abroad.

However, we would no be wearing masks. We would be able to freely come and go about the country. Schools would be normal. People wouldn't be living in fear in old folks homes, people could visit their families. Isolation would be gone. Associated mental health issues would be gone. Parties? No problem? Concerts? No problem. Pubs and clubs? No problem. And so forth.

Whereas instead of that situation, here we are, nothing achieved, mountains of money burned through and STILL no end in sight, still no plan, still no exit.

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 03:38PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

It also doesn't work.

A pesky little detail I know.

Gradius wrote: »

If the fools-that-be had taken my suggested course of action 4 months ago, we would likely be grumbling about the loss of some money and some jobs and no holidays abroad.

However, we would no be wearing masks. We would be able to freely come and go about the country. Schools would be normal. People wouldn't be living in fear in old folks homes, people could visit their families. Isolation would be gone. Associated mental health issues would be gone. Parties? No problem? Concerts? No problem. Pubs and clubs? No problem. And so forth.

Whereas instead of that situation, here we are, nothing achieved, mountains of money burned through and STILL no end in sight, still no plan, still no exit.

Gift that keeps on giving.

Parties? No problem :pac:

Gradius · 13-10-2020 03:38PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

It also doesn't work.

A pesky little detail I know.

Yes it does work. Yes it would work. Yes it will work, and you'll see that by the end of spring when it gains traction as the only credible plan available.

Until then, keep scratching your head about why everything is getting worse and worse and worse.

Gradius · 13-10-2020 03:39PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Gift that keeps on giving.

Parties? No problem :pac:

You don't like to party hearty?

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 03:40PM

Gradius wrote: »

You don't like to party hearty?

:D:D

Stop.

You are slowly becoming my favourite poster in this thread. :pac:

If only fools in the government listened to your approach, we would all be partying now wouldnt we

In all seriousness, you realize that its impossible to have border control the 1 needed for your operation? we are not NZ who thousands of miles away from nearest countries.

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 03:42PM

Gradius wrote: »

Yes it does work. Yes it would work. Yes it will work, and you'll see that by the end of spring when it gains traction as the only credible plan available.

Until then, keep scratching your head about why everything is getting worse and worse and worse.

We dont need to - its a seasonal illness, cases go up in the winter months and come down in the summer months.

I have a feeling, a mad feeling I appreciate, but I think that our country will go to level 2 next week. Basis? all the great extra funding to our great healthcare system.

Gradius · 13-10-2020 03:43PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

:D:D

Stop.

You are slowly becoming my favourite poster in this thread. :pac:

If only fools in the government listened to your approach, we would all be partying now wouldnt we

In all seriousness, you realize that its impossible to have border control the 1 needed for your operation? we are not NZ who thousands of miles away from nearest countries.

It is not impossible. It is difficult.

And a plan, difficult or not, is better than no plan.

I like to work toward something. I don't like to work for nothing. Difficulty or not.

We are currently working for nothing.

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 03:45PM

Gradius wrote: »

It is not impossible. It is difficult.

And a plan, difficult or not, is better than no plan.

I like to work toward something. I don't like to work for nothing. Difficulty or not.

We are currently working for nothing.

That in bold sounds like a line from Departed movie

We do have a plan. Living with covid. its a 6 month plan. We havent been strictly adhering to it but its by no means March lockdown plan.

We just need politicians to realize that people eating meals indoors will not lead to overwhelmed hospitals. When penny drops - we are back in the business.

Gradius · 13-10-2020 03:46PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

We dont need to - its a seasonal illness, cases go up in the winter months and come down in the summer months.

I have a feeling, a mad feeling I appreciate, but I think that our country will go to level 2 next week. Basis? all the great extra funding to our great healthcare system.

Like you and that vindaloo last night, watch the world shyt the bed come January.

There's nothing seasonal about this, this is the big kahuna baby!

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 03:48PM

Gradius wrote: »

Like you and that vindaloo last night, watch the world shyt the bed come January.

There's nothing seasonal about this, this is the big kahuna baby!

Listen, regardless of your views or plans, whatever you do please continue to post in this thread. vindaloo

Ice Albatross · 13-10-2020 03:58PM

Long term lurker of this thread. Good place to go to in order to see views going against the media narrative.

Looks like it's the home for anti-lockdown views. Some are obviously too extreme and hyperbolic but from people I know it's probably the majority view in general. Lot of house parties coming up the bank holiday weekend.

Also seen a fella walking around in a Freddy (from the Halloween movie) mask, will Halloween masks become acceptable in shops? Expect a detailed RTE piece on how they are ineffective within a week or two

All tax raises in the budget were indirect today, great opportunity to raise carbon taxes etc. 1.5bn coat to the haulage industry which will no doubt be reflected in everyday prices. I've a feeling the people who are most vocally pro lockdown will actually be pro these taxes, with the same rhetoric "just buy a electric car, cycle move to a city centre, or stay at home" following the advice with Covid "just stay at home" nicely

So it looks like we are facing into these half-lockdown restrictions until March anyway. It's painfully obvious at this stage Ireland won't be taking any sensible calls on strategy which in order to avoid Twitter outrage, our best hope is that other European countries give up lockdowns fully so NPHET and the government can follow their lead

What are the chances Christmas will be cancelled and the advice will be to zoom call your family members for Christmas dinner?

On an aside did anyone see the bit on Claire Byrne last night where they showed how you can enjoy outdoor dining? it's actually simple just put on 12 layers

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings