Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Dionaibh · 13-10-2020 9:26am

Coybig_ wrote: »

How reliable is this testing?

In one of the few scenarios where a person would be receiving multiple tests over the course of a few days - with Ireland football team, we have witnessed the following:

Person A tested: Negative, Positive, Negative in the space of 4 days.

Person B tested Positive, Negative, Positive in the space of 4 days.

I would imagine that the vast majority of the general population is getting tested once and done. And according to Dr Gillian de Gascun, only one in 500 should return a false positive.

The testing is a joke

Libski · 13-10-2020 9:28am

Dionaibh wrote: »

A lot of people feel that what is going on is tyranny. Destroyed lives, livelihoods, mental health, businesses, a banjaxed economy, thousands of deaths from cancer in the future because of the obsession with COVID etc.

That's why the 'relaxed' idea urgently needs to be implemented.

Livelihood vs life? Which one is more important?

Penfailed · 13-10-2020 9:28am

Dionaibh wrote: »

I think we could be looking at the worst psychological damage in human history. Children wearing those rags, it's just awful.

That's what they're doing in Spain and France and their (meaningless) case numbers are through the roof.

I know you are an anti-masker and an anti-vaxxer but you have no idea what the psychological damage (if any) will be. To say you think it could be the worst in human history...?! Really?

3xh · 13-10-2020 9:28am

Dionaibh wrote: »

But he's very clever. He controls most of the media through grants and donations: https://www.cjr.org/criticism/gates-foundation-journalism-funding.php

That's why you never read an article that's critical of him.

Well that’s a surprise! Follow the money, as they say.

Just like Bezos investing in media, our own Denis and communicorp and so on. These smart investors don’t buy media companies to make money. Media is in decline. There must be another beneficial reason for people in business with lots of money to buy media outlets.......

bucketybuck · 13-10-2020 9:31am

Dionaibh wrote: »

But because the chances are so slim the 'relaxed' people would see it as a risk worth taking.

I think people who despair at the present tyranny and war against humanity would jump at the chance to register as 'relaxed'.

Dionaibh wrote: »

Exactly, but to please the 'non-relaxed' people the 'relaxed' people would still sign a declaration saying they would not seek treatment.

You still aren't getting it.

Register all you want, sign as many declarations as you want, come the time when you are struggling to breath you or somebody close is going to call for an ambulance and that ambulance is going to come and help you.

That simple fact makes the entire "relaxed" plan completely and utterly meaningless.

uli84 · 13-10-2020 9:32am

crazy as it is, I started following news from other countries to get some normality in my head. Poland for example ''When asked, among other things, whether we are facing a "slow, partial lockdown", Minister of Health replied that "no, we would not want a lockdown". He also noted that the lockdown in the first half of the year was necessary because "we did not know the threat at all".
- At the moment we recognize this threat a little better. Second, the costs of such a lockdown, it turns out, are much greater than its benefits, in the sense that the effects of the lockdown will prevent us from investing in health protection, the closure of the economy will be to the great detriment of hundreds of thousands of jobs, people's lives, and the financial capabilities of the Polish state, and therefore these arguments must be carefully balanced''

I bet the narrative would be similar here if that nonsensical NPHET wasn't created.

Dionaibh · 13-10-2020 9:32am

Penfailed wrote: »

I know you are an anti-masker and an anti-vaxxer but you have no idea what the psychological damage (if any) will be. To say you think it could be the worst in human history...?! Really?

I'm not anti-vaccine. In fact, I have said that I'd take the Russian vaccine in the morning. I get vaccines, like most people do.

I just don't see how children will ever be able to recover from wearing one of those things for potentially years at school, not seeing their friends laugh and smile, not seeing the human face. As bad as the damage will be for adults, I genuinely believe it will be irreversible when it comes to children. Why I say it could be the worst n human history is because of the number of children involved. All across the world children are being forced to wear them.

gmisk · 13-10-2020 9:34am

Dionaibh wrote: »

It's not really unworkable. Most people wouldn't want to register as 'relaxed' because they've swallowed the propaganda, so we're not talking about a large number of people. Just have a part of the country for 'relaxed' people. Provide temporary accommodation, have the bus drivers register as 'relaxed', the shop assistants etc.

You don't half read some utter nonsense on boards.ie but this kind of takes the biscuit.

Off with ya then buy a closed down butlins and turn it into your "relaxed" dream land. As long as the people in it agree not to leave and not clog up the hospitals I really couldn't care less.

Penfailed · 13-10-2020 9:34am

Dionaibh wrote: »

It's not really unworkable. Most people wouldn't want to register as 'relaxed' because they've swallowed the propaganda, so we're not talking about a large number of people. Just have a part of the country for 'relaxed' people. Provide temporary accommodation, have the bus drivers register as 'relaxed', the shop assistants etc.

What part of the country? How many people? What form would the temporary accommodation take? Caravans? Would the bus drivers and shop assistants have to live in this 'commune'? How do you stock the shop? In order to stop a crossover of people, what precautions would have to be taken? You understand that the people in this commune would be treated as pariahs?

Beasty · 13-10-2020 9:35am

Dionaibh wrote: »

I think we could be looking at the worst psychological damage in human history. Children wearing those rags, it's just awful.

That's what they're doing in Spain and France and their (meaningless) case numbers are through the roof.

The warnings about talking about masks, and indeed using derogatory terms to describe them, have not been heeded

You are now banned from posting in this thread again

Penfailed · 13-10-2020 9:36am

Dionaibh wrote: »

What's so bad about the 'relaxed' idea? No one would be forced to register as 'relaxed'. At the moment, relaxed people are forced to endure tyranny. It's extremely cruel.

You obviously don't know what tyranny is.

Libski · 13-10-2020 9:36am

Dionaibh wrote: »

I'm not anti-vaccine. In fact, I have said that I'd take the Russian vaccine in the morning. I get vaccines, like most people do.

I just don't see how children will ever be able to recover from wearing one of those things for potentially years at school, not seeing their friends laugh and smile, not seeing the human face. As bad as the damage will be for adults, I genuinely believe it will be irreversible when it comes to children. Why I say it could be the worst n human history is because of the number of children involved. All across the world children are being forced to wear them.

Children don't wear masks.

13-10-2020 9:36am

This place is being spammed with conspiracy theories, there is a whole forum for this bull it doesn't need to be in here. Tin foil hat sellers are booming with covid it would appear.

Libski · 13-10-2020 9:38am

Dionaibh wrote: »

A person's livelihood is their life. For it to be destroyed over a virus is terrible for the person.

No it's not - they're still alive.

Penfailed · 13-10-2020 9:39am

uli84 wrote: »

crazy as it is, I started following news from other countries to get some normality in my head. Poland for example ''When asked, among other things, whether we are facing a "slow, partial lockdown", Minister of Health replied that "no, we would not want a lockdown". He also noted that the lockdown in the first half of the year was necessary because "we did not know the threat at all".
- At the moment we recognize this threat a little better. Second, the costs of such a lockdown, it turns out, are much greater than its benefits, in the sense that the effects of the lockdown will prevent us from investing in health protection, the closure of the economy will be to the great detriment of hundreds of thousands of jobs, people's lives, and the financial capabilities of the Polish state, and therefore these arguments must be carefully balanced''

I bet the narrative would be similar here if that nonsensical NPHET wasn't created.

The narrative is similar here. That's why we are currently at level three and not level five.

Don't Chute! · 13-10-2020 9:40am

Dionaibh wrote: »

A lot of people feel that what is going on is tyranny. Destroyed lives, livelihoods, mental health, businesses, a banjaxed economy, thousands of deaths from cancer in the future because of the obsession with COVID etc.

That's why the 'relaxed' idea urgently needs to be implemented.

I don’t think I’ve ever put anyone on ignore on Boards but you are pushing it now. All this bull**** about “leaving the west” “relaxed and non-relaxed people” and “tyranny” is just utter nonsense. You are actually starting to make Nox seem intelligent and reasonable which is some going. Give it up.

Libski · 13-10-2020 9:41am

My father is concerned about the virus and I'm concerned about him.

He makes me see why people are worried about the virus - I'm not worried for me, but I am for him.

Yes we need a functioning economy - but at the end of the day, from my father's perspective, the economy doesn't matter when you're dead.

Life is the most important thing that we need to protect - it is more important than everything else.

Graces7 · 13-10-2020 9:45am

Dionaibh wrote: »

I don't see how living off the grid as 'relaxed' persons is stupid. Destroying lives, livelihoods, mental health, humanity, natural instincts and what makes life worth living over what is for most people a mild virus is insanity, in my opinion. But the 'relaxed' idea solves that problem. People who want new normal get to have it, while people who don't get to live as 'relaxed' persons.

Hyperbole. Worrying way to think .

paw patrol · 13-10-2020 9:47am

Libski wrote: »

My father is concerned about the virus and I'm concerned about him.

He makes me see why people are worried about the virus - I'm not worried for me, but I am for him.

Yes we need a functioning economy - but at the end of the day, from my father's perspective, the economy doesn't matter when you're dead.

thats no problem , why can't he avoid places where he is at risk , like a rational person would do anyway for any illness.

If you are concerned about passing illness to him you either reduced contact or avoid places where you are at risk. if flu would kill you, would you go to the pub during flu season? This seems common sense to me.

The people not in that scenario i.e. being worried about covid should be able live their lives to the fullest.

You can argue that somebody like me could infect you but we probably will never interact beyond a supermarket or public setting where the risk of transmission is nearly zero - the reasoning that you must be 15mins with a person to be a close contact and also we aren't seeing hordes of supermarket people getting ill.

Graces7 · 13-10-2020 9:49am

Dionaibh wrote: »

I'm not anti-vaccine. In fact, I have said that I'd take the Russian vaccine in the morning. I get vaccines, like most people do.

I just don't see how children will ever be able to recover from wearing one of those things for potentially years at school, not seeing their friends laugh and smile, not seeing the human face. As bad as the damage will be for adults, I genuinely believe it will be irreversible when it comes to children. Why I say it could be the worst n human history is because of the number of children involved. All across the world children are being forced to wear them.

When I went into hospital and all the staff were wearing masks, I thought that at first. Then I realised how expressive eyes are! And voices... AFter a few hours you don't notice the mask at all.

When I think back now I have no memory of masked faces; just the people behind them

We are more resilient than you seem to think. We know why we are wearing masks

Libski · 13-10-2020 9:50am

Graces7 wrote: »

Hyperbole. Worrying way to think .

No he's actually right in that people do suffer because of lockdown. I work in the disability sector and it's impossible to communicate this pandemic to someone who has intellectual disabilities - and they have suffered trauma from not being able to access their services, or not being able to see their parents.

My view is that yes it is bad - but the alternative is allowing people to die.

Elmer Blooker · 13-10-2020 9:51am

normanoffside wrote: »

John Giles tells us he is living in fear of Covid and is checking his temperature 5 times a day.

Nice heart-warming story Claire- just what we need.

Anyone on CB last night telling how they are living in fear of losing their job, home and for the future of their children?

I didn't watch it but I know the answer to my own question.

storker · 13-10-2020 9:52am

Graces7 wrote: »

When I went into hospital and all the staff were wearing masks, I thought that at first. Then I realised how expressive eyes are! And voices... AFter a few hours you don't notice the mask at all.

We are more resilient than you seem to think. We know why we are wearing masks

I can tell when people smile at me in the supermarket. Also, I asked my daughters (teens) this morning if wearing the masks all day at school is a pain, expecting the answer to be yes. But no, they said it was fine and they'd got used to it quickly.

uli84 · 13-10-2020 9:52am

Penfailed wrote: »

The narrative is similar here. That's why we are currently at level three and not level five.

we may be at level 3 but the narrative is very different, the constant (and stupid) threat of lockdown is hanging in the air all the time. Has anyone actually recently said publicly ''we would not want a lockdown'' (?)

Libski · 13-10-2020 9:54am

paw patrol wrote: »

thats no problem , why can't he avoid places where he is at risk , like a rational person would do anyway for any illness.

If you are concerned about passing illness to him you either reduced contact or avoid places where you are at risk. if flu would kill you, would you go to the pub during flu season? This seems common sense to me.

The people not in that scenario i.e. being worried about covid should be able live their lives to the fullest.

You can argue that somebody like me could infect you but we probably will never interact beyond a supermarket or public setting where the risk of transmission is nearly zero - the reasoning that you must be 15mins with a person to be a close contact and also we aren't seeing hordes of supermarket people getting ill.

Why can't you just protect people like him and social distance and wear a mask?

paw patrol · 13-10-2020 9:57am

I was reading that the PCR tests are amplified to levels of x40 to x45.
This came from a freedom of information from the dept of health.

This means the tests are super sensitive by a massive factor -it's not 15 times more...it's way more.
normally I'm told tests for other things are amplified 25-30 times.
this means that it picks up tiny amounts or the virus , even if it isn't at a significant level. This ties in with the people who are positive but not sick.

also causes a bigger risk in background interference and errors which tie in with the false positives we see and detecting fragments from people who had it in the past but have recovered.

Normally I wouldn't give a fcuk tbh , but public policy is now damaging my life in a significant way based on (what I can see ) poor / guesswork science.

I'm open to correction of course. in fact i'd love somebody to correct me.

Libski · 13-10-2020 9:59am

paw patrol wrote: »

I was read that the PCR tests are amplified to levels of x40 to x 45.
This came from a freedom of information from the dept of health.

This means the tests are super sensitive by a massive factor -it's not 15 times more...it's way more.

normally I'm told tests for other things are amplified 25-30 times.

this means that it picks up tiny amounts or the virus , even if it isn't at a significant level. This ties in with the people who are positive but not sick.

also causes a bigger risk in background interference and errors which tie in with the false positives we see and detecting fragments from people who had it in the past but have recovered.

Normally I wouldn't give a fcuk tbh , but public policy is now damaging my life in a significant way based on (what I can see ) poor / guesswork science.

I'm open to correction of course. in fact i'd love somebody to correct me.

How?

13-10-2020 10:00am

Libski wrote: »

My father is concerned about the virus and I'm concerned about him.

He makes me see why people are worried about the virus - I'm not worried for me, but I am for him.

Yes we need a functioning economy - but at the end of the day, from my father's perspective, the economy doesn't matter when you're dead.

Life is the most important thing that we need to protect - it is more important than everything else.

And for a person that loses their business/livelihood, Covid is not going to matter too much to them when they are losing their home.

Some things are worse than death. Destroying society and lots of the livelihoods within it is worse for me.

I don't want to see Ireland back in the dark ages because we had a crazy idea that we sacrifice everything to try prevent death.

People die everyday. A huge majority has nothing to do with Covid. And yet nobody was terrified of death pre covid...

Libski · 13-10-2020 10:02am

Deleted User wrote: »

And for a person that loses their business/livelihood, Covid is not going to matter too much to them when they are losing their home.

Some things are worse than death. Destroying society and lots of the livelihoods within it is worse for me.

I don't want to see Ireland back in the dark ages because we had a crazy idea that we sacrifice everything to try prevent death.

People die everyday. A huge majority has nothing to do with Covid. And yet nobody was terrified of death pre covid...

Given a choice - lose your life or your business, what would you choose?

paw patrol · 13-10-2020 10:02am

Libski wrote: »

Why can't you just protect people like him and social distance and wear a mask?

I don't think covid is that big a deal for one. I don't believe in the need for any restrictions given what we know of covid19 now.

Social distancing and mask wearing is no way to live your life ( me and mine are entitled to a quality of life too) esp in the long term - remember our level 1 still has restrictions so we have no plan yet to exit social distancing and open things like casinos/disco/niteclubs...
so why would I sign up to something that was going on forever especially with no end to it

Ginger n Lemon · 13-10-2020 10:03am

Libski wrote: »

Given a choice - lose your life or your business, what would you choose?

Are we back to this nonsense in this thread? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

13-10-2020 10:06am

Libski wrote: »

Given a choice - lose your life or your business, what would you choose?

That is not the choice though. Nearly a quarter of a million are currently on PUP payments vs less than 2000 deaths. And the deaths are way overstated.

paw patrol · 13-10-2020 10:07am

Libski wrote: »

How?

what do you want a list of my life and it's activities that I can or cant do?

give over.

Graces7 · 13-10-2020 10:07am

Libski wrote: »

No he's actually right in that people do suffer because of lockdown. I work in the disability sector and it's impossible to communicate this pandemic to someone who has intellectual disabilities - and they have suffered trauma from not being able to access their services, or not being able to see their parents.

My view is that yes it is bad - but the alternative is allowing people to die.

"Destroy" is what I am saying is inaccurate and hyperbole. Yes folk are badly affected but with time and help that will change, we are created to adapt to change. Especialy if we accept and understand why this is happening.

I have been in almost total "lockdown " for over two years now, My immune system is down and at my advanced age and with this illness even a cold is dangerous. The only place I have been in that while is hospital in an emergency . And I am at peace about that now although there are things I miss out there. On the journey home from hospital through the places I love and miss, I was glued to the windows!

Adapting takes time but we can do it. IF we want to. Yes of course we are affected adversely but not "destroyed "

And there are wonderful folk like you out there working to alleviate this temporary time! Thank you. I had great support from extended family who knew the danger I was and am in. Now I am at peace about it.

And as you say. it is needful. These are extreme times. May they pass..

What is happening here is that some are not accepting the need for lockdown so of course it is totally aggressively negative and hyperbolic .

Your last sentence is truth and sanity . Life is precious and at my age I am high risk

Libski · 13-10-2020 10:08am

paw patrol wrote: »

I don't think covid is that big a deal for one. I don't believe in the need for any restrictions given what we know of covid19 now.

Social distancing and mask wearing is no way to live your life ( me and mine are entitled to a quality of life too) esp in the long term - remember our level 1 still has restrictions so we have no plan yet to exit social distancing and open things like casinos/disco/niteclubs...
so why would I sign up to something that was going on forever especially with no end to it

You have to wear a mask in a shop to save lives. Ten minutes tops. How in your head does your resistance make sense - when you're saving lives?

Libski · 13-10-2020 10:09am

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Are we back to this nonsense in this thread? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

What are you talking about?

Libski · 13-10-2020 10:10am

Deleted User wrote: »

That is not the choice though. Nearly a quarter of a million are currently on PUP payments vs less than 2000 deaths. And the deaths are way overstated.

Which would you choose? Simple question.

Libski · 13-10-2020 10:11am

paw patrol wrote: »

what do you want a list of my life and it's activities that I can or cant do?

give over.

I want you to explain how you justify putting lives at risk.

Libski · 13-10-2020 10:13am

Graces7 wrote: »

"Destroy" is what I am saying is inaccurate and hyperbole. Yes folk are badly affected but with time and help that will change, we are created to adapt to change. Especialy if we accept and understand why this is happening.

I have been in almost total "lockdown " for over two years now, My immune system is down and at my advanced age and with this illness even a cold is dangerous. The only place I have been in that while is hospital in an emergency . And I am at peace about that now although there are things I miss out there. On the journey home from hospital through the places I love and miss, I was glued to the windows!

Adapting takes time but we can do it. IF we want to. Yes of course we are affected adversely but not "destroyed "

And there are wonderful folk like you out there working to alleviate this temporary time! Thank you. I had great support from extended family who knew the danger I was and am in. Now I am at peace about it.

And as you say. it is needful. These are extreme times. May they pass..

What is happening here is that some are not accepting the need for lockdown so of course it is totally aggressively negative and hyperbolic .

Your last sentence is truth and sanity . Life is precious and at my age I am high risk

I'm sorry to hear that you're high risk, but you're all the more reason why I feel the way I do. We need to protect people.

bucketybuck · 13-10-2020 10:15am

Libski wrote: »

Given a choice - lose your life or your business, what would you choose?

Libski wrote: »

Which would you choose? Simple question.

The vast, vast majority of people are only in danger of one of those.

13-10-2020 10:15am

Libski wrote: »

Which would you choose? Simple question.

If it was 1 life vs 1 job, I would choose life of course.

But its not is it? We currently have close to quarter of a million on PUP payments vs less than 2000 dead.

So its more like over 100 livelihoods destroyed per death. In that case, 1 death is better than 100+ people losing jobs. Simple answer.

Libski · 13-10-2020 10:17am

bucketybuck wrote: »

The vast, vast majority of people are only in danger of one of those.

I think the vast majority are in danger of neither.

robfowler78 · 13-10-2020 10:18am

I think the end game for this is the same as any other virus or disease that we currently live with a vacine will just help it won't solve it. What's clear is we need a better health service we have needed this for a long time have people forgotten the trolley counts every year during winter. We are vastly under prepared with ICU beds. Long term:

we need to stop reporting every test and positive case on the news.

Concentrate on the hospitalisations

Keep our current message of hand washing etc but this should be a message every winter not just because of Covid. I know I don't visit elderly relatives when I have a bad cold never have I though that's just common sense.

We need a proper track and trace system.

We are wasting billions of euro that could be used to rearrange and organise the health service. Money has never been cheaper to borrow.

The original lockdown should of been used to do this instead we really didn't do anything meaningful to improve our ICU etc. I think people thought this would be over much sooner including people in government.

We can't lockdown forever regardless of what people think stadiums can't stay empty, hospitality can't stay closed we need to start except this is not going anywere. People will die as they do every day for a load of different reasons it can't be avoided its nobel and no one likes to see people die but we now it happens for lots of reason to young, old, explained unexplained every day.

If people can't see even the WHO are starting to talk about lockdowns not been the primary weapon that's because countries are realising they need to get the finances in order they can't come out and say that but let me tell you as soon as winter is over vacine or no vacine the summer will be used to change the narrative and the government will roll back on alot of there ideas and the people advocating lockdown will be hearing a different message.

Libski · 13-10-2020 10:19am

Deleted User wrote: »

If it was 1 life vs 1 job, I would choose life of course.

But its not is it? We currently have close to quarter of a million on PUP payments vs less than 2000 dead.

So its more like over 100 livelihoods destroyed per death. In that case, 1 death is better than 100+ people losing jobs. Simple answer.

What if that death was yours? That's my question - your livelihood or life.

13-10-2020 10:19am

Deleted User wrote: »

So its more like over 100 livelihoods destroyed per death. In that case, 1 death is better than 100+ people losing jobs. Simple answer.

It is absolutely astonishing there are people who think like this, society really is f*cked.

13-10-2020 10:21am

Libski wrote: »

What if that death was yours? That's my question - your livelihood or life.

If I die, I die. I am 1 person in a country of 5M. I am not expecting any special treatment.

I'd hate to think that 100's had to suffer to keep me alive.

bucketybuck · 13-10-2020 10:22am

Libski wrote: »

I think the vast majority are in danger of neither.

Then you don't understand economics and the real life consequences of recession.

Libski · 13-10-2020 10:23am

Deleted User wrote: »

If I die, I die. I am 1 person in a country of 5M. I am not expecting any special treatment.

I'd hate to think that 100's had to suffer to keep me alive.

You'd rather die than see a person lose money?

Really?

Why do you think so lowly of yourself?

Libski · 13-10-2020 10:25am

bucketybuck wrote: »

Then you don't understand economics and the real life consequences of recession.

I studied economics. I understand it. But I guess my view is fundamental - that life is more important than money.

Being dead is worse than being in hardship.

paw patrol · 13-10-2020 10:28am

Libski wrote: »

I want you to explain how you justify putting lives at risk.

That isn't what you asked - you asked how the restrictions affected me.
Leaving aside the risk is the square root of sod all.
I'm putting nobody at risk that doesn't accept the risk. Every person I visit or visits me knows my attitude and tbh we all have the same attitude.

If I went to a niteclub tonight - who would be there that wasn't happy to accept the risk? tell me?

If I don't wear a mask in the supermarket who am I infecting?

Given the HSE state that you must be 15mins with a person to be a close contact and as I stated earlier there is , after 8 months, no infections from supermarkts despite them being open all the time. You'd' think hordes of staff would have died now from this deadly virus? but that hasn't happened.

why would I hide myself and my person for something I didn't believe in -cos the man on the telly told me ? :rolleyes:

Now I'm not unreasonable...if we had a better plan , some targets and timelines...I may suck it up. But we don't.

BTW come back next summer and call me selfish cos i won't take a rushed barely tested vaccine either....

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings