Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Stormyteacup · 30-09-2020 04:24PM

covid20 wrote: »

The same crew who (rightfully) complain about cancel culture

Ye are as bad if not worse than the woke types you love to hate and subscribe to the same crimes as the bankers. Real heros

Just out of interest, how many lives do you think your plan will save?

Dr.Feeley mentioned a cost-benefit analysis and how difficult it would be to quantify the cost to society.

Bearing in mind that 150 approx died with Covid over the past four months... am genuinely interested in how many lives you think you are saving?

covid20 · 30-09-2020 04:24PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You can say that again.

You are a national treasure, champion debater.

topper75 · 30-09-2020 04:25PM

covid20 wrote: »

Despite your attempt to pass it off as an ill thought out notion, it is global best practice.

What is best practice - robot drivers?!!

covid20 · 30-09-2020 04:26PM

topper75 wrote: »

I have a small hangup about it being entirely unworkable.

Beyond the haulage fly in your ointment, you do realise we have people who work in this state but are based elsewhere. They are key workers. You have no right to imprison them here if they are not sick. And if you don't let them in Irish people can't be trained up over night to do their roles. Ireland is a small open economy. It is hardly a matter of opinion. It is funny that you would try and debate the point.

And you are purposefully ignoring the bit I wrote about arrangements around essential travel.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 04:27PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Just out of interest, how many lives do you think your plan will save?

Dr.Feeley mentioned a cost-benefit analysis and how difficult it would be to quantify the cost to society.

Bearing in mind that 150 approx died with Covid over the past four months... am genuinely interested in how many lives you think you are saving?

5 Million breathing a big sigh of relief. Quality of life is extremely important as I'm sure you all agree.

topper75 · 30-09-2020 04:28PM

covid20 wrote: »

And you are purposefully ignoring the bit I wrote about arrangements around essential travel.

So the essential workers could bring covid back in after all out efforts.

Hardly a plan is it. Eradication is impossible - see?

Ginger n Lemon · 30-09-2020 04:30PM

topper75 wrote: »

So the essential workers could bring covid back in after all out efforts.

Hardly a plan is it. Eradication is impossible - see?

I think the OP has been listening to Gerry Killeen a bit too long.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 04:33PM

topper75 wrote: »

So the essential workers could bring covid back in after all out efforts.

Hardly a plan is it. Eradication is impossible - see?

And yet today 30 Sep 2020 there are countries around the world where people are living the normal lives you all crave.

It is amazing the logical backflips needed to get to the form of thinking in this thread.

"We hate anything that might help us"

(Because ultimately we love complaining more than life itself)

30-09-2020 04:33PM

road_high wrote: »

This thing is different though

It certainly is different in that its far less serious. Just a few examples.

In 2008 you had house prices rapidly falling, people mortgaged to the hilt and no mortgage being given out.

In 2020 we have rising house prices, large numbers of people who have significantly added to saving in the previous months, mortgages not hard to get for most.

In 2008 a large proportion of the construction industry shut down and a lot of them had to emigrate, there were far more houses than needed at the time.

In 2020 Builders cant keep up with the work there is so much of it, there is a big housing shortage and demand for houses, every tom dick and harry are getting bit of work done on their house with money saved

A lot of industries are not impacted which were in 2008. IT is flying, multinationals are flying, there is a shortage of teachers and nurses and plenty being hired. Grocery shops have never had as good a year, small local ones never have done as much trade etc etc.

Plenty more examples but I haven't time for spelling them out - Irish savings are at an all time high, there has been billions saved by households this year https://www.businessworld.ie/financial-news/Irish-savings-hit-another-record-high-in-July--574400.html

covid20 · 30-09-2020 04:36PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

It certainly is different in that its far less serious. Just a few examples.

In 2008 you had house prices rapidly falling, people mortgaged to the hilt and no mortgage being given out.

In 2020 we have rising house prices, large numbers of people who have significantly added to saving in the previous months, mortgages not hard to get for most.

In 2008 a large proportion of the construction industry shut down and a lot of them had to emigrate, there were far more houses than needed at the time.

In 2020 Builders cant keep up with the work there is so much of it, there is a big housing shortage and demand for houses, every tom dick and harry are getting bit of work done on their house with money saved

A lot of industries are not impacted which were in 2008. IT is flying, multinationals are flying, there is a shortage of teachers and nurses and plenty being hired. Grocery shops have never had as good a year, small local ones never have done as much trade etc etc.

Plenty more examples but I haven't time for spelling them out.

Low impact for now and merging into a two tiered society quick but like that ever rising daily graph of new cases worldwide the storm is brewing economically. Businesses are half full at best, people lose jobs, default on loans and so goes down the house of cards. It is slow but happening.

topper75 · 30-09-2020 04:41PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

It certainly is different in that its far less serious.

It may in fact be more serious and long reaching.

The hemorrhages appear in mundane places you don't even think about.
The Limerick Leader reported that parking fine revenue is a fraction of the norm. That means cuts in spending, a leakage from the economy locally, and/or job losses that can't suddenly just 'know' IT stuff tomorrow.

Universities are in big trouble with loss of foreign students.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 04:45PM

topper75 wrote: »

It may in fact be more serious and long reaching.

The hemorrhages appear in mundane places you don't even think about.
The Limerick Leader reported that parking fine revenue is a fraction of the norm. That means cuts in spending, a leakage from the economy locally, and/or job losses that can't suddenly just 'know' IT stuff tomorrow.

Universities are in big trouble with loss of foreign students.

And with this in mind will any of you at least humour me with how you see us getting out of this mess from your perspective?

I have friends and family now unemployed, I'm sure many here do too.

topper75 · 30-09-2020 04:59PM

covid20 wrote: »

And with this in mind will any of you at least humour me with how you see us getting out of this mess from your perspective?

I have friends and family now unemployed, I'm sure many here do too.

I'd like to see the fight against the virus being much more targetted.

The current lockdown approach is reminiscent of fighting a forest fire by drenching trees that the fire has yet to touch instead of bringing water to the blaze.

Take the county lockdowns - Dublin/Donegal - they shouldn't have shut down entire counties for outbreaks in one district. That was dumb and expensive.

People aren't getting viruses from passing each other in shop aisles. Change that paranoia message. Everywhere should be open for business. Smaller premises can set up queues.

Open stadia and theatres and try and save these industries. X off every second row of seats and subsidise for the loss. End the crippling expensive blanket closure.

Encourage outdoor activity - no shutdown of youth sport at any level.

Allow weddings and funerals to whatever size a venue can take with reasonable spacing involved.

Take note of how little the virus affects children (evidence is overwhelming) and let them do everything they did before.

Give the gardaí who enquire about protest organisers some real work to do.

CruelSummer · 30-09-2020 05:03PM

covid20 wrote: »

And with this in mind will any of you at least humour me with how you see us getting out of this mess from your perspective?

I have friends and family now unemployed, I'm sure many here do too.

Hello Covid 20, debate is always welcomed on this thread as we need to find a way out of this mess. However you came on here insulting and name calling. You’re also asking we ‘humour you’. We’ve done enough humouring of this situation since March. Mortgage breaks have ended, Lockdown failed as a strategy. It’s time for you to humour us now in the way we move forward. This idea that we’re somehow to ‘blame’ for the Governments failed strategy needs to be called out. It’s time people like yourself listened to more reasonable debates on this and not hysterical zero Covid, killer virus fanatical sound bites.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 05:03PM

topper75 wrote: »

I'd like to see the fight against the virus being much more targetted.

The current lockdown approach is reminiscent of fighting a forest fire by drenching trees that the fire has yet to touch instead of bringing water to the blaze.

Take the county lockdowns - Dublin/Donegal - they shouldn't have shut down entire counties for outbreaks in one district. That was dumb and expensive.

People aren't getting viruses from passing each other in shop aisles. Change that paranoia message. Everywhere should be open for business. Smaller premises can set up queues.

Open stadia and theatres and try and save these industries. X off every second row of seats and subsidise for the loss. End the crippling expensive blanket closure.

Encourage outdoor activity - no shutdown of youth sport at any level.

Allow weddings and funerals to whatever size a venue can take with reasonable spacing involved.

Take note of how little the virus affects children (evidence is overwhelming) and let them do everything they did before.

Give the gardaí who enquire about protest organisers some real work to do.

Thanks

Local lockdowns are an exercise in turning people against compliance and not much more. It is all or nothing.

I half agree with you, I'd love to see every aspect of life mapped and modelled to see where the risks lie. Disagree about theatres and the like (too indoors) but if the data proved me wrong I would happily accept.

CruelSummer · 30-09-2020 05:04PM

topper75 wrote: »

I'd like to see the fight against the virus being much more targetted.

The current lockdown approach is reminiscent of fighting a forest fire by drenching trees that the fire has yet to touch instead of bringing water to the blaze.

Take the county lockdowns - Dublin/Donegal - they shouldn't have shut down entire counties for outbreaks in one district. That was dumb and expensive.

People aren't getting viruses from passing each other in shop aisles. Change that paranoia message. Everywhere should be open for business. Smaller premises can set up queues.

Open stadia and theatres and try and save these industries. X off every second row of seats and subsidise for the loss. End the crippling expensive blanket closure.

Encourage outdoor activity - no shutdown of youth sport at any level.

Allow weddings and funerals to whatever size a venue can take with reasonable spacing involved.

Take note of how little the virus affects children (evidence is overwhelming) and let them do everything they did before.

Give the gardaí who enquire about protest organisers some real work to do.

Great ideas, I also think this is the way forward for the winter & then drop any remaining restrictions in the spring if all goes ok.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 05:08PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Hello Covid 20, debate is always welcomed on this thread as we need to find a way out of this mess. However you came on here insulting and name calling. You’re also asking we ‘humour you’. We’ve done enough humouring of this situation since March. Mortgage breaks have ended, Lockdown failed as a strategy. It’s time for you to humour us now in the way we move forward. This idea that we’re somehow to ‘blame’ for the Governments failed strategy needs to be called out. It’s time people like yourself listened to more reasonable debates on this and not hysterical zero Covid, killer virus fanatical sound bites.

I was just trying to be cool, you call everyone in public life all kinds of names and I was just trying to fit in. Can give it but not take it but I understand. In our zero offense culture I should really be more careful. I will now apologise profusely for using the word clowns as I really didn't mean to upset your sensitive souls.

Please, please accept my deepest apologies.

However, that said, you are partly to blame is you are not behind the solution and using your words here to convince people out of being careful. That is unquestionable.

If you don't agree with whatever restrictions, go out and live your life happily and in peace and to hell with the law and the cops or anyone who tries to muzzle you and stop gluing yourselves to the keyboard trying to poison others.

Whatsisname · 30-09-2020 05:17PM

Guy who tells others to stop gluing themselves to their keyboard has posted 86 times in 6 hours. ****in hell.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 05:18PM

Whatsisname wrote: »

Guy who tells others to stop gluing themselves to their keyboard has posted 86 times in 6 hours. ****in hell.

But I won't be here for 6 months repeating myself

topper75 · 30-09-2020 05:18PM

I'm just mulling over some graphs there for various European nations and the cases seem as high as ever. But deaths have an utterly different profile.

The difference is shocking and cannot be merely explained by saying - 'younger people are getting it this time'.

I've heard of viruses 'evolving' or adapting to refrain from killing hosts (not in its interest as it needs a host to even exist).

To any posters out there up on virology, could that adaptation have occurred in mere months??!!

CruelSummer · 30-09-2020 05:20PM

covid20 wrote: »

I was just trying to be cool, you call everyone in public life all kinds of names and I was just trying to fit in. Can give it but not take it but I understand. In our zero offense culture I should really be more careful. I will now apologise profusely for using the word clowns as I really didn't mean to upset your sensitive souls.

Please, please accept my deepest apologies.

However, that said, you are partly to blame is you are not behind the solution and using your words here to convince people out of being careful. That is unquestionable.

If you don't agree with whatever restrictions, go out and live your life happily and in peace and to hell with the law and the cops or anyone who tries to muzzle you and stop gluing yourselves to the keyboard trying to poison others.

I don’t recall insulting anyone in public life but I sense a bit of desperation and bitterness from your posts unfortunately. I guess you’re not here for debate and are probably a previously banned user. Did the Dr Feeley debate last night give you a bit of a wake up call? When all McConkey could mutter was Guernsey and Faroe Islands as the bastions of hope for Ireland to strive towards? Laughable.
Bitterness can happen when people start to wake up and see their hysterical days are numbered. I do completely disagree with the strategy undertaken in Ireland, the role of NPHET being a defacto unelected government, a long line of professors pursuing zero Covid being trotted out and actually giving ‘alternative facts’ such as Tomás Ryan last Thursday on prime time re death rate & risk to children. And so so many other approaches that have occurred during this crisis. But I don’t think you really care, you’re just here to insult and belittle a valid viewpoint.

CruelSummer · 30-09-2020 05:21PM

Whatsisname wrote: »

Guy who tells others to stop gluing themselves to their keyboard has posted 86 times in 6 hours. ****in hell.

Think I’m going to ignore, no interest in debate and trying to derail thread and drag posters into an argument.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 05:22PM

topper75 wrote: »

I'm just mulling over some graphs there for various European nations and the cases seem as high as ever. But deaths have an utterly different profile.

The difference is shocking and cannot be merely explained by saying - 'younger people are getting it this time'.

I've heard of viruses 'evolving' or adapting to refrain from killing hosts (not in its interest as it needs a host to even exist).

To any posters out there up on virology, could that adaptation have occurred in mere months??!!

I have the same question but I feel if it was true we would have credible research to back it up already, plus no shortage of deaths in other countries although different strains are dominant in different regions. Lots of unknowns.

The cases numbers are centered in certain demographics which do in part explain the difference and we don't yet know if there is a lag effect on deaths or not. If not, we can get more confident.

It is a case for Pascal's wager. Be curamach as the cost of being wrong is too high.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 05:23PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Think I’m going to ignore, no interest in debate and trying to derail thread and drag posters into an argument.

Healthy debate brother, you just don't seem up for upsetting your rigid beliefs. This thread has been a groupthink deadend for months and few normal people enter.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 05:30PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I don’t recall insulting anyone in public life but I sense a bit of desperation and bitterness from your posts unfortunately. I guess you’re not here for debate and are probably a previously banned user. Did the Dr Feeley debate last night give you a bit of a wake up call? When all McConkey could mutter was Guernsey and Faroe Islands as the bastions of hope for Ireland to strive towards? Laughable.
Bitterness can happen when people start to wake up and see their hysterical days are numbered. I do completely disagree with the strategy undertaken in Ireland, the role of NPHET being a defacto unelected government, a long line of professors pursuing zero Covid being trotted out and actually giving ‘alternative facts’ such as Tomás Ryan last Thursday on prime time re death rate & risk to children. And so so many other approaches that have occurred during this crisis. But I don’t think you really care, you’re just here to insult and belittled a valid viewpoint.

You are half right, I am here to belittle an invalid view point for the many many many flaws in what you are saying. You know all the bits ye ignore but then all thank the post trying to slag me.

Acting confident in the face of unknowns, as if you know better. Dunning Kruger squared. It is like a cult.

thebaz · 30-09-2020 05:31PM

I am getting an understanding of how NPHET make decisions to run (ruin) our country - Glynn still blabbering about extending Dublin lockdown , comfortably secure in his secure pensionable job - It's hard to believe we had an election earlier this year, and somehow the unelected NPHET took control, unopposed, and dictate how we all live , to the detriment of all other aspects of Irish life.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 05:32PM

Anyway, do yourselves a favour and look up old man Pascal and his wager. Have the wisdom to admit when you don't actually know something instead of being pig ignorant about it. It is not all the governments fault, we all have a part in this.

And spare a thought for my Granny, she is more bored than ye are.

And if ye can't be good, be careful.

Adios

Penfailed · 30-09-2020 05:55PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

I hope others are reporting covid20 for trolling and/or being a re-reg.

Tout.

Ginger n Lemon · 30-09-2020 06:11PM

topper75 wrote: »

I'm just mulling over some graphs there for various European nations and the cases seem as high as ever. But deaths have an utterly different profile.

The difference is shocking and cannot be merely explained by saying - 'younger people are getting it this time'.

I've heard of viruses 'evolving' or adapting to refrain from killing hosts (not in its interest as it needs a host to even exist).

To any posters out there up on virology, could that adaptation have occurred in mere months??!!

I think the death counting is more accurate now , thats the main difference.

Or deaths are being under counted not to make governments look bad, but I think the first one is more likely.

30-09-2020 06:14PM

Think we are really starting to see that restrictions just aren’t working...

Government/NPHET don’t want to look at alternatives so likely they’ll eventually have to do another national lockdown.

Not sure what they’ll do then when cases increase after...

Glynn has said this is the approach for next 9 months.

On a day when Shell are announcing 9000 job losses globally, I worry how things are going to be in 9 months.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings