Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

facehugger99

hynesie08 wrote: »

Well yes, deaths have risen from 0 to 1 today, but are you actually claiming that they're rising compared to May?

As we have learned, the figures for deaths are hugely exaggerated. They are counting people who die with covid as covid deaths.

What are the chances that the figure from today was someone at the end of his life who contacted covid while in hospital?



What are the actual number of people who die from Covid? What age were they? What underlying conditions did they have?

I've no doubt the truth will out eventually. Too late to save this country from a recession that will make the last one look like the teddy bears picnic.

Micky 32

Penfailed wrote: »

Sounds close to your record on your first day posting to be fair.

Looking at Covid20 username above his posts looks like he’s been rumbled so he won’t be making the 200 record anyway.

Jackman25

Micky 32 wrote: »

Looking at Covid20 username above his posts looks like he’s been rumbled so he won’t be making the 200 record anyway.

Another victim of Covid. He will probably be included in the death figures.

normanoffside

facehugger99 wrote: »

What age were they? What underlying conditions did they have?

I've no doubt the truth will out eventually. Too late to save this country from a recession that will make the last one look like the teddy bears picnic.

Dr Ro Ro was asked that today (all deaths since August) and he said he didn't have all the data, then said he wouldn't even give the data he had as he didn't want to give wrong ideas.

walus

normanoffside wrote: »

Dr Ro Ro was asked that today (all deaths since August) and he said he didn't have all the data, then said he wouldn't even give the data he had as he didn't want to give wrong ideas.

He will not give the data because it does not support their theory.

3xh

normanoffside wrote: »

Dr Ro Ro was asked that today (all deaths since August) and he said he didn't have all the data, then said he wouldn't even give the data he had as he didn't want to give wrong ideas.

Yes. Strange that.

He also made a funny comment early on responding to Fergal O’Dowd I think it was about how if NPHET could give the figures/limits they use, there’d be no need for NPHET.
He was alluding to how they might have one limit here and one limit there but with their expertise in forward-reading the numbers, they could come up with something else as a guideline.

Captain_Crash

walus wrote: »

He will not give the data because it does not support their theory.

I hate conspiracies, but I 100% agree with this! There is no way he doesn’t have that data available to him and if he could use it you bet your a*s he would! I’ve no doubt in my mind

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

Dr Ro Ro was asked that today (all deaths since August) and he said he didn't have all the data, then said he wouldn't even give the data he had as he didn't want to give wrong ideas.

Yet if there was an outbreak in a pub, you can guarantee they’d know exactly how many cases were related.

AUDI20

walus wrote: »

Tell that those who experienced totalitarian systems. They will laugh at you. Your thinking is grounded in experiences and beliefs of those who brought you up. You don’t have even a notion what it is like.
Covid is a risk to democracies, it is causing the wealth gap to widen as it will accelerate the demise of middle class jobs - a process that has been happening already for the past 3 decades. And it is the middle class that is the foundation of democracy.

Nox here is pointing to property market as if this is the only economic indicator. It maybe the only indicator that remains positive, for know that is. Who can afford properties these days? I give you a clue - those who are in the upper class of income. The lower class and continuously shrinking middle class will have their dreams of owning a property slashed considerably, at the same time the landlords will thrive.

Edit: I’m personally very concerned where this is heading. We already accepted that those “ to big to fail” companies get bailed out. We socialize losses and privatize gains. The burden of when things go wrong is loaded on the shrinking middle class. That is a threat to democracy and people should not be fooled when “ we are all in this together” is on the agenda. Some of us are more in this than others.

Good post, so everything continues as before. nothing has changed really.

FintanMcluskey

normanoffside wrote: »

Dr Ro Ro was asked that today (all deaths since August) and he said he didn't have all the data, then said he wouldn't even give the data he had as he didn't want to give wrong ideas.

Isnt it a miracle, that we know some fella had a house party and caused 30 cases and the following day he caused another outbreak eating a sandwich.

But when it comes to relevant data about 20 ICU cases that data cant be obtained

Staggering

normanoffside

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Isnt it a miracle, that we know some fella had a house party and caused 30 cases and the following day he caused another outbreak eating a sandwich.

But when it comes to relevant data about 20 ICU cases that data cant be obtained

Staggering

To be honest, looking at the deaths since August and ICU figures, I am not sure that even 1 or 2 of those deaths were in ICU.
My Guess is nursing homes again but they don't want us to know that as they were supposed to have sorted it out.

Assetbacked

normanoffside wrote: »

Dr Ro Ro was asked that today (all deaths since August) and he said he didn't have all the data, then said he wouldn't even give the data he had as he didn't want to give wrong ideas.

93/94% have had clinical underlying conditions and I recall the first two weeks in September had its deaths in the 65+ age group, with the most (of like 10 deaths in those two weeks) being 74+.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

If we don't adopt a Sweden like approach to this soon there will be nothing left. No plan, all hopes pinned on a miracle vaccine that may or may not ever come, "brace for more pandemics" etc. My heart warms when I see so many people on here waking up. Sweden approach now or else we're doomed.

Double O Seven

facehugger99 wrote: »

As we have learned, the figures for deaths are hugely exaggerated. They are counting people who die with covid as covid deaths.

What are the chances that the figure from today was someone at the end of his life who contacted covid while in hospital?



What are the actual number of people who die from Covid? What age were they? What underlying conditions did they have?

I've no doubt the truth will out eventually. Too late to save this country from a recession that will make the last one look like the teddy bears picnic.

Only 100 of the 1800 deaths were caused by Covid

weldoninhio

Hunky Monster wrote: »

If we don't adopt a Sweden like approach to this soon there will be nothing left. No plan, all hopes pinned on a miracle vaccine that may or may not ever come, "brace for more pandemics" etc. My heart warms when I see so many people on here waking up. Sweden approach now or else we're doomed.

You can see a massive change in people’s perception of the bug, online and in person. Previously if you spoke out about it not being as dangerous as was made out you were told to tighten the tinfoil hat, or called a Gemmaroid, or other nonsense. Now people are actually opening their eyes and can see that these restriction are absolutely nonsense.

jackboy

weldoninhio wrote: »

You can see a massive change in people’s perception of the bug, online and in person. Previously if you spoke out about it not being as dangerous as was made out you were told to tighten the tinfoil hat, or called a Gemmaroid, or other nonsense. Now people are actually opening their eyes and can see that these restriction are absolutely nonsense.

I think everyone can see the current lockdown in Dublin is a sick joke. There is no rationale for lifting the lockdown so it may last for six months, unless they go for a more extreme one for a while to really bring the levels down. It will just bounce back after that anyway.

There is no plan.

PTH2009

jackboy wrote: »

There is no plan.

This is the plan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO5sxLapAts

Quantum Erasure

Double O Seven wrote: »

Only 100 of the 1800 deaths were caused by Covid

No. You're wrong there. Covid can cause other complications as well

CruelSummer

Chawke pub group in Dublin forced to lay-off 300 staff. Heard him talking on the radio earlier, saying Revenue & Government didn’t care or offer them any means of furlough or retaining their staff.

Why are NPHET not questioned on these impacts if they’re actually making these decisions? Where is the accountability for their actions? As the owner said on the radio, these are people with families & bills to pay.
NPHET’s appearance at the Oireachtas committee after having the cheek to decline twice was useless. Could someone stand up in the Dáil as a public representative elected by voters of Ireland and ask for the data which they are currently hiding?

sparky_marcus

jackboy wrote: »

I think everyone can see the current lockdown in Dublin is a sick joke. There is no rationale for lifting the lockdown so it may last for six months, unless they go for a more extreme one for a while to really bring the levels down. It will just bounce back after that anyway.

There is no plan.

Indeed more will be dead of poverty by time vaccine arrives. Protect the vulnerable and elderly, promote social distancing and cleanliness and for god sake get everything open again and business moving. Also key is fact there was waay less testing in April/May so that peak back then was prob 3-4x bigger ( all the folk that had covid, suspected it and never tested) versus now with much more testing means the "big" uptick we have is a blip compared to April/May

Double O Seven

I remember some time back one of the main newspapers had a headline "community mourning after local sporting hero dies from Covid" and it turned out the sporting hero was a chap who played Gaelic football in the 40s and was 104 years old.

Penfailed

Double O Seven wrote: »

I remember some time back one of the main newspapers had a headline "community moaning after local sporting hero dies from Covid" and it turned out the sporting hero was a chap who played Gaelic football in the 40s and was 104 years old.

Moaning? I'd imagine it was mourning. Either way...what's your point?

gmisk

Double O Seven wrote: »

Only 100 of the 1800 deaths were caused by Covid

Sure they were....who told you that? Ben Gilroy?
People really will believe any oul nonsense

walus

weldoninhio wrote: »

You can see a massive change in people’s perception of the bug, online and in person. Previously if you spoke out about it not being as dangerous as was made out you were told to tighten the tinfoil hat, or called a Gemmaroid, or other nonsense. Now people are actually opening their eyes and can see that these restriction are absolutely nonsense.

And that is one of the factors their modelling tools do not take into account - a simple fact that the longer this goes on the less people tend to give sh1t about complying with restrictions.

walus

walus wrote: »

And that is one of the factors their modelling tools do not take into account - a simple fact that the longer this goes on the less people tend to give sh1t about complying with restrictions.

Well then they need to be forced to by making the restrictions law and heavily punishing those who break them.

They should have been laws from the beginning anyway.

Just remember it’s the people not complying who are causing the restrictions, causing restrictions to increase and directly responsible for job losses etc.

growleaves

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Well then they need to be forced to by making the restrictions law and heavily punishing those who break them.

They should have been laws from the beginning anyway.

Just remember it’s the people not complying who are causing the restrictions, causing restrictions to increase and directly responsible for job losses etc.

No they are not directly responsible. You could say that they are indirectly responsible since you believe they are part of a chain of causation. I would still disagree with you but you could say that. The government is directly responsible for job losses since they are actually shutting down sectors of the economy as part of their policy.

walus

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Well then they need to be forced to by making the restrictions law and heavily punishing those who break them.

They should have been laws from the beginning anyway.

Just remember it’s the people not complying who are causing the restrictions, causing restrictions to increase and directly responsible for job losses etc.

Making a law and successfully enforcing it are two different things. We have talked about it before - theory and practice - remember? The strategy should have been such, from day one, that it is practical in implementation. Otherwise it is just a waste of time. They put in academics into that nphet team and what we get is their theory that they keep on hanging onto, without causal evidence that it is actually getting us closer to the finish line. The approach from practitioners i.e. the likes of Dr. Feeley is radically different.

hynesie08

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Well then they need to be forced to by making the restrictions law and heavily punishing those who break them.

They should have been laws from the beginning anyway.

Just remember it’s the people not complying who are causing the restrictions, causing restrictions to increase and directly responsible for job losses etc.

Well, it's a better effort, but still rubbish.

growleaves

walus wrote: »

Making a law and successfully enforcing it are two different things. We have talked about it before - theory and practice - remember? The strategy should have been such, from day one, that it is practical in implementation. Otherwise it is just a waste of time.

Ah but this generation of liberal technocrats don't concede any social basis for human nature.

A writer on a traditional Catholic site called this a Locke-down since John Locke was the philosopher who sought to abstract human beings from an organic social reality and treat them as fungible atoms in a new kind of society.

We're chess pieces who can be moved around the board at will. What's sixteen months or more of stasis and isolation to a little wooden chess piece?

if this keeps up then the milky bar kid will be a Lavoisier to the mobs Robespierre.. no joke this is the stuff of revolutions.. people are at the pin of their collar here, this has to stop.

HIQA web site

COVID-19 may have accelerated time of death in frail and vulnerable individuals over the peak period. The excess mortality observed at the peak is now being followed by a period of decreased mortality as date of death for individuals who would ordinarily have died during this time occurred earlier than expected by a matter of weeks or months.