Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 MOD NOTE POST 1*

big_drive · 17-09-2020 1:38pm

As a Cork person i've always wondered about that side of Brian Cody. He's ruthless streak is always lauded but there must have been players slip through over the years who could have been great players if just given a small bit more time. Maybe in Kilkenny the luxury of having so many class players makes it easy to move onto the next option as there is always another player waiting with potential

Village87 · 17-09-2020 1:42pm

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Yeah I'd like to see the likes of John Walsh, Ollie Walsh, Eoin O'Shea, Jordan Molloy, Aidan Nolan, Cian Kenny (probably a bit early for him) Tom Kenny, Evan Cody get another go or just a go with the county. I don't know if he'll bring in anyone from the club games with such a short season ahead. I would like to see Cody be a bit more open to bring lads back in that have gone well with the club, if they still don't impress in training etc fair enough cut them but there are some fine hurlers around that he has given a go to it might not have worked out mainly because of youth and inexperience. If a lad fails at a young age it doesn't mean he won't be ever good enough some lads blossom late.

Evan Cody is a prime example, he was brought in a few years ago given 20 minutes at cornerback against Aaron Shanagher down in Clare on a day Kilkenny were terrible. It went very badly for Evan and he was dropped soon after. I think it was terrible that a poor performance by the team was to the outside at least being attributed to one young cornerback(who's a full back). Evan Cody lost all confidence after the way he was dumped so quickly and he played ****e for 2 or 3 years for the Boro after that and almost gave up the game. Thankfully he stuck at it and has had 2 great years now he is probably only one of 3 or 4 lads in the county that might be able to handle Colin Fennelly. He has speed and hurling as well as being strong as an Ox. Doubt Cody will ever call him in again and I don't know if he'd go in again with Cody there, he might never have been good enough but we'll never know cause we only ever got to see him against Aaron Shanagher for 20minutes and that's not enough to judge anyone on. This tale has played out a lot throughout the Cody years and when we were producing Shefflin, Fennelly, Walsh, Delaney, Larkin, Power and Tyrrell's to name but a few it was ok to cast lads on the scrap heap and never revisit those guys again. We're not in that position anymore and older guys who are going well should be looked at. If their not good enough or fit enough then fine but don't discard them as an option because we saw what he could do at 19 year old and it wasn't good enough.

Rant over sorry, started off trying to be positive and went off on one.

Very good post. Some players allowed to be in there 2/3 years even though they play poor for club, they are getting good training and conditioning. Other players cast aside after 2/3 months and they could be a lot better than players in there 2/3 years. They way some young players are treated is terrible and effects there confidence for years. Some of these players allowed to be carried are usually from the managers/selectors clubs

big_drive · 17-09-2020 1:48pm

I would imagine its a huge knock to some young lads if Cody drops you given he's seen as the best manager/judge of a player in the game. If another manager does it you might think they don't have a clue but Cody's decision might be seen as gospel according to some. So any player already with a fragile confidence isn't going to recover too quick from the knock back when delivered by the man regarded as the greatest manager of all time. If he tells you you're not inter county standard you probably really believe it

Realt Dearg Sec · 17-09-2020 3:57pm

Players who are devastated by Cody dropping them should be reminded of some of the players he persisted with when the whole county could see they blatantly weren't up to it. Could start naming names but that might be a bit harsh. We all can think of a few and we're all probably thinking of the same few.

He's a great manager but he's flawed like everyone.

Village87 · 17-09-2020 4:32pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Players who are devastated by Cody dropping them should be reminded of some of the players he persisted with when the whole county could see they blatantly weren't up to it. Could start naming names but that might be a bit harsh. We all can think of a few and we're all probably thinking of the same few.

He's a great manager but he's flawed like everyone.

I was listening to Daly's podcast lately and he spoke of a sideline row with Cody, Daly said to Cody its a disgrace you only won a certain amount of All Irelands with the players he had. Daly went on to say my grandmother would have won more. Daly said Cody went mental with the comment. I found the whole thing very funny

Fred Daly · 17-09-2020 6:50pm

Village87 wrote: »

I was listening to Daly's podcast lately and he spoke of a sideline row with Cody, Daly said to Cody its a disgrace you only won a certain amount of All Irelands with the players he had. Daly went on to say my grandmother would have won more. Daly said Cody went mental with the comment. I found the whole thing very funny

That sounds like what one child would say to another in a school yard argument,did loughnane win much with that Clare team bitterness lack of manners got to him in the end.

citykat · 17-09-2020 10:10pm

So a lad has a bad game for Kilkenny, gets dropped from the county panel and nearly gives up the game on the strength of that? Cry me a river. If a temporary setback (and that's all it is) like that is going to have such an impact on the lad maybe he's better off staying away from it altogether.
If somebody chooses not to join a county panel because they don't like the manager, that has to be the classic definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face!
It's well known that Cody doesn't have much of a personal relationship with the players. The most stunning example of that to me was how quickly Tommy was dispatched. What other manager would have dispensed so quickly with probably the most popular player in modern times?
It's also well known he likes to test guys mental strength. Evan Cody is not the first player to be treated in that fashion.
Fwiw i rate Evan Cody very highly and am amazed he hasn't had more chances at inter county. I hope for his sake he ignores the outrage being spewed on his behalf - i can only imagine the uninformed ****e he has to listen to out in the Boro. Otherwise he'll just be another one of those outstanding club hurlers that mysteriously never made it to the next level.

tbiggertycome · 18-09-2020 11:49am

citykat wrote: »

So a lad has a bad game for Kilkenny, gets dropped from the county panel and nearly gives up the game on the strength of that? Cry me a river. If a temporary setback (and that's all it is) like that is going to have such an impact on the lad maybe he's better off staying away from it altogether.
If somebody chooses not to join a county panel because they don't like the manager, that has to be the classic definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face!
It's well known that Cody doesn't have much of a personal relationship with the players. The most stunning example of that to me was how quickly Tommy was dispatched. What other manager would have dispensed so quickly with probably the most popular player in modern times?
It's also well known he likes to test guys mental strength. Evan Cody is not the first player to be treated in that fashion.
Fwiw i rate Evan Cody very highly and am amazed he hasn't had more chances at inter county. I hope for his sake he ignores the outrage being spewed on his behalf - i can only imagine the uninformed ****e he has to listen to out in the Boro. Otherwise he'll just be another one of those outstanding club hurlers that mysteriously never made it to the next level.

It wasn't outrage I was just using him as an example of how good players are cast aside after a poor performance and as Realt Dearg Sec pointed out less talented but mentally tougher individuals are kept on board for years. The point I was trying to make and obviously did so clumsily if you think I was raging, is that if Cody was a different style of manager he would say Evan is a better player than X, rather than sticking with X who's not as good but can handle the way I treat him. A different/modern style manager would approach Evan and say look you need to work this, that and the other, if your not mentally tough enough go to a Br Damien character. Lots of those legends suffered terribly with confidence in how Cody treated them and without Be Damien a lot of them would have fallen by the wayside. Not everyone has someone like that to be a sounding board. To think it's Cody's way or the highway is incredibly naive, if lads who were playing regularly were suffering with confidence imagine what does to a young lad just trying to make the panel.
Evan probably would go back in if asked the point I made above is that Cody rarely asks these lads back in and judges them on what he saw years ago which I don't think is fair or smart. Evan is a different lad in lots of ways since his time with Kilkenny and I have no doubt he could push for a place if given a chance.

Do you think it's fair to drop a lad after only a few months training and 20 minutes in a game where the whole team were ****?

Realt Dearg Sec · 18-09-2020 3:01pm

citykat wrote: »

So a lad has a bad game for Kilkenny, gets dropped from the county panel and nearly gives up the game on the strength of that? Cry me a river. If a temporary setback (and that's all it is) like that is going to have such an impact on the lad maybe he's better off staying away from it altogether.
If somebody chooses not to join a county panel because they don't like the manager, that has to be the classic definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face!
It's well known that Cody doesn't have much of a personal relationship with the players. The most stunning example of that to me was how quickly Tommy was dispatched. What other manager would have dispensed so quickly with probably the most popular player in modern times?
It's also well known he likes to test guys mental strength. Evan Cody is not the first player to be treated in that fashion.
Fwiw i rate Evan Cody very highly and am amazed he hasn't had more chances at inter county. I hope for his sake he ignores the outrage being spewed on his behalf - i can only imagine the uninformed ****e he has to listen to out in the Boro. Otherwise he'll just be another one of those outstanding club hurlers that mysteriously never made it to the next level.

Didn't see any outrage citykat, just people wondering if as a county we might be missing out on some talented players because they got dropped too easily.

tbiggertycome · 18-09-2020 7:07pm

citykat wrote: »

So a lad has a bad game for Kilkenny, gets dropped from the county panel and nearly gives up the game on the strength of that? Cry me a river. If a temporary setback (and that's all it is) like that is going to have such an impact on the lad maybe he's better off staying away from it altogether.
It's also well known he likes to test guys mental strength. Evan Cody is not the first player to be treated in that fashion.

The reason he was contemplating walking away from hurling was how poorly he was playing for years on end and he knew how good he could be so I'm sure it was incredibly frustrating and disheartening. He started another hobby and was very good at it and was thinking of concentrating on that and give up the hurling. Thankfully he didn't and has come back stronger than ever. He still has small elements of his game he can improve on but their only minor things and even the best players can always be better. He wasn't thinking of quitting because he was dropped by the county but being dropped by the county led to massive loss in confidence which led to poor performances and then a thought of not bothering with hurling anymore. So no need for tears or rivers.

tbiggertycome · 19-09-2020 10:07am

Junior Semi Finals on today being streamed on beo sport live from Nowlan Park
1.15pm Piltown v Dicksboro
4.45pm Emeralds v Conahy Shamrocks

Tomorrow Intermediate semi finals
12.45pm Glenmore v Lisdowney
4.15pm Thomastown v St Lactains

I've only seen the Boro out of the Junior teams and read about the other 3 in match reports.
I'd probably fancy the Boro in the first game they have been playing very well all year and have only lost Liam Moore to the Seniors so they have a nice blend of youth and experience, they've been putting up good scores too in the B championship.

From what I've read I'd probably fancy the Shamrocks in the second match today but like any semi it should be a close affair.

In tomorrow's opener I'm going for Lisdowney and now that I haven't picked Glenmore they'll probably romp home but I've been impressed with Lisdowney they've gone from the middle of the pack in the last few years to one of the best teams this year. Glenmore with the Murphys and a possibly fit Aylward will be tough to beat but I think Lisdowney can do it.

Thomastown should really win this one and look like the team that could do best at senior but St Lachtains have like Lisdowney gone through a transformation this year and have really impressed. If Thomastown are not on the top of their game St Lachtains will take them down. The Donnelly's are going well for Ttown but they'll need plenty of support from the rest to get over this one

barneygumble99 · 19-09-2020 9:42pm

https://twitter.com/emeraldsgaaclub/status/1307363907019984896?s=21

Conahy win by 3 points

barneygumble99 · 19-09-2020 9:44pm

https://twitter.com/gaapiltown/status/1307311106810052608?s=21

Dicksboro win by 13 points

brookville · 19-09-2020 10:26pm

barneygumble99 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gaapiltown/status/1307311106810052608?s=21

Dicksboro win by 13 points

The boro have a good young team and we could see two B teams intermediate next year.It was probably only a matter of time given the large numbers and hard work going on in these clubs that this would happen.This isn't a criticism I'm sure alot of country clubs are envious.The boro have a good panel and I think they only lost liam moore to the seniors.Lads like Aaron Duggan,paul o Flynn and eddie donaghue are only subs.They would make most junior teams.
The boro are on a high at the moment and alot of good players coming through.As I said before conor doheny cant get back into the team after injury.
the gaffneys struggle with injuries and are on and off but lads like Kevin kenny,stephen farrell,Michael Fagan,robbie murphy dont see much game time now.Enda malone gone a few years.Shane maher was a lad years ago if he got his fitness right had great hands and skill.
Its probably the disadvantage of good crops coming the whole time some lads get passed out and dont get to fulfill their potential.

tbiggertycome · 20-09-2020 8:51am

brookville wrote: »

The boro have a good young team and we could see two B teams intermediate next year.It was probably only a matter of time given the large numbers and hard work going on in these clubs that this would happen.This isn't a criticism I'm sure alot of country clubs are envious.The boro have a good panel and I think they only lost liam moore to the seniors.Lads like Aaron Duggan,paul o Flynn and eddie donaghue are only subs.They would make most junior teams.
The boro are on a high at the moment and alot of good players coming through.As I said before conor doheny cant get back into the team after injury.
the gaffneys struggle with injuries and are on and off but lads like Kevin kenny,stephen farrell,Michael Fagan,robbie murphy dont see much game time now.Enda malone gone a few years.Shane maher was a lad years ago if he got his fitness right had great hands and skill.
Its probably the disadvantage of good crops coming the whole time some lads get passed out and dont get to fulfill their potential.

Your bang on with most of what you've said there we have lots of lads coming through and after winning the minor two years on the trot we have more to follow. Personally I don't see the disadvantage if a veteran player is good enough and training hard enough, I think he'll be able to hold his place. Like you say Conor Doheny is excellent and personally I think he's good enough for the county, if he could stay injury free but that's the risk when you go full on into tackles. At U21 he was better than Darren Mullen but we would need to see more of him, won't happen this year. He just got a niggely hamstring a few weeks before the first game. Management didn't want to risk him and without training matches he couldn't force his way back in.
The Gaffneys have usually had the same niggely injuries but Andy was flying this year, fittest he'd ever been but an awkward fall after a lad took the legs from under him, under a highball led to a fractured collar bone. Murt like Doheny is struggling to make an impression from the bench and without training matches. Oisin Gough wasn't playing well the first few games, was dropped and is now only coming on as a sub even though he's done well from the bench. Michael Fagan is living and working in Cork so doesn't always get to training sessions and will admit himself that with training the way it is he couldn't be picked ahead of any of the back 6, again he was good enough for the county. His head might not have been in the right place at the time he was given his chance. Robbie Murphy had a really bad hamstring tear in the second game against GBC so that's why he hasn't featured. Kevin Kenny stood off the panel at the start of the year for personal reasons the door is always open to him. Stephen Farrell has struggled for form and the lack of matches in training leaves these lads little chance to get back in with this tight format.

Plenty more coming through, which I personally think is great to see and hopefully we can win both now.

brookville · 20-09-2020 9:33am

Thanks for the reply
I was just wondering where some of these lads have gone over the last few years
The future is very bright for the boro.What way is aidan nolan?will he be back for the final?

JJs Left Hand · 20-09-2020 9:57am

Considering the numbers of players at underage and the chances of Boro B joining Loughlins in intermediate there really should be a 4th team in the city shouldn't there?

tbiggertycome · 20-09-2020 10:10am

brookville wrote: »

Thanks for the reply
I was just wondering where some of these lads have gone over the last few years
The future is very bright for the boro.What way is aidan nolan?will he be back for the final?

We're hopeful definitely not ruled out

Ceist_Beag · 20-09-2020 10:15am

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Considering the numbers of players at underage and the chances of Boro B joining Loughlins in intermediate there really should be a 4th team in the city shouldn't there?

At least there are three clubs, look at the Lgfa, just one club for the city!

tbiggertycome · 20-09-2020 10:31am

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Considering the numbers of players at underage and the chances of Boro B joining Loughlins in intermediate there really should be a 4th team in the city shouldn't there?

It's a complex question and at it's simplest the question is who is going to start a new club and how do you attract lads away from the stronger more established clubs. Most lads are playing for their club because of friends or familial history/loyalty. For a club to be successful too it really needs a feeder primary school.

On a more detailed level looking at the population you have the largest populations in O'Loughlin's and James Stephens both over 11,000 total population. The Boro is the smallest population at about 8,000. If you were going to set up a new club and you wanted a parish St Mary's is the only other parish in the city but you would be splitting the Boro who have the smallest pick. The Boro are currently doing well because of a massive amount of work by members of the last few decades. The Village are starting to come back a bit and O'Loughlin's are reaping the benefit of a massive underage programme they instigated.

Obviously having another club would give good players another option and we'd have more lads playing at a high level giving the county more options. However if you look at the likes of Portlaoise there is only one club in the town which has a population the same size as Kilkenny. So while we have 3 clubs here we could have 5 panels playing senior and intermediate from the city next year although I'm sure Conahy will have plenty to say about that. Portlaoise have just one team for that population and they have to be losing 100's of player's through lack of playing time. The other issue there is Portlaoise nearly have a monopoly on the football championship. I don't think Kilkenny is in that bad a situation.

The biggest issue is the one I highlighted first unless you get a gang of very dedicated people to take it on and be prepared to stick with it for probably a good few years of little success and lots of struggle.

JJs Left Hand · 20-09-2020 11:45am

Oh I agree it's impossible to do

sportsmaddad · 20-09-2020 2:13pm

Cracking Intermediate semi Lisdowney vs Glenmore. Big call from the ref for 3 catches by Glenmore back decided it at the death. Definitely didn't look correct on the TV. Anyone else see it?

droppingball · 20-09-2020 9:14pm

Thoroughly enjoyable games today, lot of the streamed games have been one sided, great to see tit for tat games.

Lisdowney played well in patches today, they play a nice brand of hurling. They certainly don't waste much ball. They won't be allowed have such lulls next week though.

Thomastown didn't or more like weren't allowed flow today, freshford dragged them into a right battle and hurled well. Shut thomastown well and the two Mahers hurled well. Thomastown will need more from Jonjo and John Donnelly next week and will definitely need to stop runners going down the centre of their defence. Should be a great final and expect it to be tight.

Think all three county finals will be tight competitive matches.

As an aside, I have noticed that the refereeing has been good in most games, seems like the standard has improved this year. Maybe it is because I'm not surrounded by biased fans abusing the refs.

brookville · 20-09-2020 10:26pm

Definitely seems to be an emphasis on letting the game flow which contributes to the games flowing and more enjoyable than a stop start.
Lisdowney had a lot of wides but were slightly better and just about deserved it and pat o Carroll didn't play.Ger aylward was very accurate today and lisdowney putting a sweeper in front of him helped get then over the line.Great win for lisdowney they are putting in great work and getting their reward
Freshford put in a hard shift.Liam hickey and shane Donnelly are dangerous.Thomastown a bit open and casual at times.Robbie donnelly again very accurate.Thomastown will be favourites in the final but will have to improve.

Fred Daly · 20-09-2020 11:14pm

A lot of great games in the championship that people did not think would be possible, the players club mentors have given everything from junior to senior hopefully we will get it all finished up safely in the next two wends. Pat o Carroll would be a big loss if he did not play in the final for lisdowney, lads say the refs are good the second match to day the ref was very slow.

ClubFirst · 21-09-2020 1:22pm

Officials picked for Finals. Ray Byrne to do Senior and Owen Beehan to do Junior Final. No referee on Intermediate as of yet.

JJs Left Hand · 22-09-2020 9:58pm

That's all well and good but TJ Reid plays for Shamrocks so.... yea

bamayang · 23-09-2020 8:57am

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Final preview:

The half backline of Ollie Walsh, Buckley and Tom Kenny would serve most counties very well.
Tom Kenny is probably one of the most under rated hurlers in the county
Conor Doheny who is one of the classiest wing backs in the county.

I wonder would Ballyhale be as well forfeiting the game all together

greenspurs · 23-09-2020 9:00am

ClubFirst wrote: »

Officials picked for Finals. Ray Byrne to do Senior and Owen Beehan to do Junior Final. No referee on Intermediate as of yet.

Sean Cleere doing the Intermediate final

JJs Left Hand · 23-09-2020 9:00am

"Tom Kenny is probably one of the most under rated hurlers in the county and from what I've heard he's one of the very few in county training that keeps TJ quiet."

This line is probably my favourite. One of, if not the greatest hurler Kilkenny has ever produced just casually wrote off

Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 MOD NOTE POST 1*