How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

delly · 17-09-2020 09:32PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I have the app on my phone , but my phone isn’t always where I am in school . Lots of staff will be deleting it at this rate.

If anything, it'll be a reason to keep it. You're more likely to get an accurate alert from the app than the HSE in person approach.

byhookorbycrook · 17-09-2020 09:51PM

Except the phone isn’t often where I actually am.

downthemiddle · 17-09-2020 10:18PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Boys school. Have seen the letter. Refers to cases and further cases. School closed and no reopening date given. Earliest will be Monday but I've heard a date in early October is a high probability. All depends on local health team.

Appears to be the first full closure. Cases amongst staff and children.

BonsaiKitten · 17-09-2020 11:29PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The Irish Times broke the news ( as per usual, schools only hear of it through the media ) that DES inspectors are going to be calling to schools to check on compliance. These are educationally qualified , but don’t have any health and safety qualifications whatsoever. Be prepared for “ leaked” reports that schools aren’t keeping 2 m sd etc.

So good to see that the inspectorate have busywork to do, instead of being given useful roles.

Surely DES sending out inspectors would go against their own guidelines anyway? We are not supposed to have visitors in the school.

Purplewaters · 17-09-2020 11:54PM

Will Yam wrote: »

Latest figures I can find are 203/100k in Victoria vs 40/100k in Ireland.

This link

https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-update seems to say 28 cases yesterday? Not sure of the details but know they took much harder line much faster. If ireland went full lockdown again people would comply. This economy first and people second will have everyone breaking rules.

Purplewaters · 18-09-2020 12:05AM

Will Yam wrote: »

No case is ok.

But obsessing about a sector which has 4% of all cases since they reopened is like trying to blame international travel for the spread of the virus (2%) of total.

We should focus where the problem is.

I think people miss the point. Never agreed with this theory on travel either. Lets say that 4 percent and 2 percent come into contact with 100 people in a week? That is the original percentage of cases, not the potential risk associated. It literally all started with one/ ten/ 50 cases so this logic just makes no sense to me.

Jinglejangle69 · 18-09-2020 12:37AM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Appears to be the first full closure. Cases amongst staff and children.

Which is gonna happen at most schools as we try get on with life.

It will open back up in 2 weeks and we try live with the virus again.

This is now life.

Deal with it or else hide away forever under your duvet forever.

downthemiddle · 18-09-2020 07:08AM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Which is gonna happen at most schools as we try get on with life.

It will open back up in 2 weeks and we try live with the virus again.

This is now life.

Deal with it or else hide away forever under your duvet forever.

I’m sure the families affected will take great consolation from your words and will indeed get on with it, if and, when they can come out from under their duvets again.

DangerScouse · 18-09-2020 07:10AM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Which is gonna happen at most schools as we try get on with life.

It will open back up in 2 weeks and we try live with the virus again.

This is now life.

Deal with it or else hide away forever under your duvet forever.

Yeah just deal with the death, deal with the heart complications, deal with the lung issues, deal with feeling like sh1t for weeks on end. Just deal with it.

Oranage2 · 18-09-2020 07:14AM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Which is gonna happen at most schools as we try get on with life.

It will open back up in 2 weeks and we try live with the virus again.

This is now life.

Deal with it or else hide away forever under your duvet forever.

There should have been measures put in place to give the schools the best possible chance of staying open. They wasn't any.

They just opened the doors and gave out basic health advice. Not good enough and now we can see many individual cases and a school closure after just 2 weeks.

facehugger99 · 18-09-2020 07:15AM

DangerScouse wrote: »

Yeah just deal with the death, deal with the heart complications, deal with the lung issues, deal with feeling like sh1t for weeks on end. Just deal with it.

The majority of people won’t even know they have it and it’s harmless to the vast, vast majority.

You probably don’t get in a car because you could have an accident.

Schools are staying open despite the constant hysteria from people like yourself.

18-09-2020 07:34AM

downthemiddle wrote: »

In unrelated news

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0917/1165854-drogheda-school-covid-19/
Teachers at one of the country's largest second level schools have expressed concern at what they say are mixed messages they received from the HSE in relation to being deemed a close contact of a person with Covid-19.

St Oliver’s Community College in Drogheda closed to more than half its students after more than 30 of its teachers were alerted yesterday via the Covid tracker app that they were close contacts of a virus case.

They were advised to begin isolating immediately and to await a call from the HSE to arrange testing.

The alerts came after it was confirmed that a staff member at the school had contracted the virus.

However, while some teachers were tested this morning, others were told by the HSE that they did not have to isolate after all, or do a test, and were free to go about their business.

The school has been in discussions this evening with the Department of Education and the HSE to seek clarity on the situation.

The Department of Education has told RTÉ News that a full public health risk assessment was undertaken at St Oliver’s.

It said that following this assessment public health officials concluded that teachers contacted by the Covid tracker app were not close contacts.

In a statement, it said public health officials had reviewed data from the app along with the information gathered from the public health assessment carried out at the school, including an interview with the person who had contracted the virus, and an "assessment of overall compliance with control measures outlined in the national guidance for school setting; and reviewing the local infection prevention and control measures".

It said the school assessment was a "broad and more detailed assessment of the risk factors identified" and that this determined the actions that were required to be undertaken.

The department said that since the teachers who had been contacted by the Covid tracker app were not close contacts they did not need a test and should continue to attend school.

A teacher at St Oliver's told RTÉ News that staff there are shocked and confused by what has happened.

Responding to the explanation from the Department of Education, the teacher said the HSE had told her earlier today that the app had made "a mistake".

She queried whether the Covid tracker app could be regarded as accurate or not when it comes to teachers in schools.

"We are not very confident," she said.

The teacher, who is among those who received a close contact text alert, said: "We are all beside ourselves.

"It’s the shock of getting the alert and then being told it’s a mistake without any explanation as to what the mistake is. There is this idea that schools will stay open at any cost. We feel like cannon fodder."

Meanwhile, the HSE earlier said that the number of Covid-19 cases in schools is 131, with 96 cases believed to have arisen through community transmission, and another 35 where transmission may have occurred in a school.

To date, 96 schools have had to test students or teachers for the virus, with 2,100 tests carried out.

The breakdown of these tests between students and teachers is not yet known.

Speaking at a HSE briefing on Covid-19 this afternoon, HSE Chief Clinical Officer Dr Colm Henry said that cases in schools are not driving community transmission.

The HSE has said it cannot comment on individual cases or outbreaks to protect the privacy and confidentiality of those involved.

In a statement to RTÉ News, it said that when a case of Covid-19 is identified which is associated to an educational facility, public health professionals engage directly with the person, or family as appropriate, and asks them about their contacts.

It said responses and recommendations for each facility may well differ, depending on the circumstances identified by public health.

St Oliver's Community College caters to more than 1,200 students and has 120 teachers.

If 30 teachers in this school put themselves in a position where they were within 2 meters or the same individual for more than 15 minutes, they want to start looking a bit closer to home before putting the blame on everyone else.

The more likely scenario however is that a quirk of the building construction or some other factor within the way the building and classes were organised, coupled with the fact that gauge distance over Bluetooth is not an exact science, doesn't take in to account walls etc. likely contributed to the false positives. Public health reviewed and identified there required testing and cleared everyone else. The app is an indication you may have been exposed, not you have been exposed, and should not replace close contact information from the source, especially in controlled environments

pwurple · 18-09-2020 07:35AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

There should have been measures put in place to give the schools the best possible chance of staying open. They wasn't any.

They just opened the doors and gave out basic health advice. Not good enough and now we can see many individual cases and a school closure after just 2 weeks.

Wow, that's quite different to my experience. Boatloads if measures, so many I can't even figure them all out.. The schools have segregated classes, pickups and dropoffs are controlled. Playtime and breaks are controlled. Washing is enforced. Clothes are recommended to be changed , no books or material from school comes home. Nothing except lunch goes in.

None of this is in place in your school? Just open the door?

I think the schools are doing really well, a testament to the hard work they have put in. The pod system seems to be working. It services around a million children.

irishblessing · 18-09-2020 07:40AM

Facehugger is all over other threads too accusing people of hysteria and blatantly says he traveled "to the continent" and refused to restrict his movements. It was right before schools opened too, and said he was ignoring the return to school policy sent out that said if you/your family have been out of the country in the last 14 days you must not attend school and self isolate. Also says you don't have to tell your employer about your holiday plans, if you went to a non-green list country so you don't have to self isolate for 14 days coming home.

That is the kind of person we're dealing with here.

FishOnABike · 18-09-2020 07:43AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So who in the school community aren't obeying guidelines?

We had a visibly sick child in school yesterday, mam was called to take the child home and refused saying that the child had already been denied enough education. The poor child having a parent with such regard for their wellbeing.

Simply give her the choice of collecting the child or the school contacting child welfare services as the parent is not willing to provide proper care for their child.

If the child potentially has CoViD and the parents are uncooperative with following health recommendations a fourteen day suspension, which may be lifted on production of a negative test result, wouldn't go amiss.

Anecdotially I've heard of one potential school cluster and,if true, it seems some people have absolutely no sense if responsibility.

irishblessing · 18-09-2020 07:47AM

pwurple wrote: »

Wow, that's quite different to my experience. Boatloads if measures, so many I can't even figure them all out.. The schools have segregated classes, pickups and dropoffs are controlled. Playtime and breaks are controlled. Washing is enforced. Clothes are recommended to be changed , no books or material from school comes home. Nothing except lunch goes in.

None of this is in place in your school? Just open the door?

I think the schools are doing really well, a testament to the hard work they have put in. The pod system seems to be working. It services around a million children.

I remember you being in this conversation before earlier on in the thread about the measures needed, are you deliberately being obtuse or what?
I think you know well the measures being referred to are a phased reopened and a blended hybrid remote learning model. Also releasing the money for renovations etc to schools before opening in 4 weeks so it could have actually done something about class sizes or ventilation issues, etc.

wirelessdude01 · 18-09-2020 07:47AM

pwurple wrote: »

P.aytime and breaks are controlled.

QUOTE]

I what way?

downthemiddle · 18-09-2020 07:48AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If 30 teachers in this school put themselves in a position where they were within 2 meters or the same individual for more than 15 minutes, they want to start looking a bit closer to home before putting the blame on everyone else.

The more likely scenario however is that a quirk of the building construction or some other factor within the way the building and classes were organised, coupled with the fact that gauge distance over Bluetooth is not an exact science, doesn't take in to account walls etc. likely contributed to the false positives. Public health reviewed and identified there required testing and cleared everyone else. The app is an indication you may have been exposed, not you have been exposed, and should not replace close contact information from the source, especially in controlled environments

You have no idea what happened in the school so your speculation is worthless.

Blondini · 18-09-2020 07:49AM

It's really hard to understand the psychology behind the weird and childish non-teachers, non-parent odd-balls that live on this thread 24-7 obsessing about schools and engaging in teacher-bashing.

Dark unmentionable ulterior motives maybe? Worrying really.

Lillyfae · 18-09-2020 07:54AM

Blondini wrote: »

It's really hard to understandstand the psychology behind the weird and childish non-teachers, non-parent odd-balls that live on this thread 24-7 obsessing about schools and engaging in teacher-bashing.

Dark unmentionable ulterior motives maybe? Worrying really.

I suppose it’s about the same as those trying to equate the level of risk of teachers in schools as being the same as nurses treating gravely ill Covid patients.

Gentleman Off The Pitch · 18-09-2020 07:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If 30 teachers in this school put themselves in a position where they were within 2 meters or the same individual for more than 15 minutes, they want to start looking a bit closer to home before putting the blame on everyone else....

Here we go, I can see posts of this nature becoming more and more common over the coming weeks and months as the blame is placed on the teachers

downthemiddle · 18-09-2020 08:01AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

The majority of people won’t even know they have it and it’s harmless to the vast, vast majority.

You probably don’t get in a car because you could have an accident.

Schools are staying open despite the constant hysteria from people like yourself.

Schools will close because of the behaviour you have admitted to and the behaviour you have advocated.

wirelessdude01 · 18-09-2020 08:04AM

FishOnABike wrote: »

Anecdotially I've heard of one potential school cluster and,if true, it seems some people have absolutely no sense if responsibility.

Where and in what way were people having no responsibility? Was it school staff, parents or a mixture of both?

Blondini · 18-09-2020 08:07AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

I suppose it’s about the same as those trying to equate the level of risk of teachers in schools as being the same as nurses treating gravely ill Covid patients.

It's absolutely, unequivocally nothing like that. Nothing.

Your response and your terrible comparison reveals a lot tbh.

18-09-2020 08:11AM

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Here we go, I can see posts of this nature becoming more and more common over the coming weeks and months as the blame is placed on the teachers

I said if they had 30 contacts, and them laid out a more plausible scenario. But by all means,selectively edit my post to paint me as blaming teachers.

The teachers in this school know if they were close contacts with the confirmed case or not, so all the bluster about the app, is just that, bluster. The app is for situations where you may come in contact with someone in a less controlled environment - socialising, transport, shopping etc., and either not know about it or forget.

Question for teachers - are you being asked to keep a log of daily school contacts that occur outside of the school timetable? Its best practice for anyone in the workplace during covid, and the principal / DES should be asking you to do it.

downthemiddle · 18-09-2020 08:11AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

I suppose it’s about the same as those trying to equate the level of risk of teachers in schools as being the same as nurses treating gravely ill Covid patients.

What on earth are you on about?

irishblessing · 18-09-2020 08:13AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If 30 teachers in this school put themselves in a position where they were within 2 meters or the same individual for more than 15 minutes, they want to start looking a bit closer to home before putting the blame on everyone else.

The more likely scenario however is that a quirk of the building construction or some other factor within the way the building and classes were organised, coupled with the fact that gauge distance over Bluetooth is not an exact science, doesn't take in to account walls etc. likely contributed to the false positives. Public health reviewed and identified there required testing and cleared everyone else. The app is an indication you may have been exposed, not you have been exposed, and should not replace close contact information from the source, especially in controlled environments

Put themselves in that position? What position would that be now, other than being forced to return to work, some having their health issues downgraded, squashed into classrooms that are far too small with classes among the largest in Europe? Some seem to be teaching in a converted broom closet.

downthemiddle · 18-09-2020 08:15AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Question for teachers - are you being asked to keep a log of daily school contacts that occur outside of the school timetable? Its best practice for anyone in the workplace during covid, and the principal / DES should be asking you to do it.

Why would schools be any different in this regard? The fact that you have to ask shows your lack of knowledge. The guidelines are easily accessible.

18-09-2020 08:17AM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Why would schools be any different in this regard? The fact that you have to ask shows your lack of knowledge. The guidelines are easily accessible.

Jesus Christ, I just asked a genuine question, I can go look at the guidelines if you like

facehugger99 · 18-09-2020 08:18AM

irishblessing wrote: »

Facehugger is all over other threads too accusing people of hysteria and blatantly says he traveled "to the continent" and refused to restrict his movements. It was right before schools opened too, and said he was ignoring the return to school policy sent out that said if you/your family have been out of the country in the last 14 days you must not attend school and self isolate. Also says you don't have to tell your employer about your holiday plans, if you went to a non-green list country so you don't have to self isolate for 14 days coming home.

That is the kind of person we're dealing with here.

Someone who does his own thinking rather than waiting for an unelected Government mandarin to tell him what to do?

Guilty.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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