How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Purplewaters

Purplewaters wrote: »

Maybe not but then again it's early days.

If you were a healthcare worker and got covid but not in work is it classed this way? Not seen any figures on education workers yet but do know of ones who have had covid in last few weeks. Curious with the stats as some healthcare workers also could have gotten covid in day to day life. Any stats on other jobs available?

thomasdylan

is_that_so wrote: »

That type of worker includes care homes and they are on weekly testing.

Are they?

thomasdylan

Purplewaters wrote: »

If you were a healthcare worker and got covid but not in work is it classed this way? Not seen any figures on education workers yet but do know of ones who have had covid in last few weeks. Curious with the stats as some healthcare workers also could have gotten covid in day to day life. Any stats on other jobs available?

Uk publishes stats by occupation. Ireland hasn't so far.

As far as I can remember 2/3 of Covid infections in healthcare workers were gotten at work. I'm not sure what the stats on this are now. There's lots of very poorly paid HCAs living in crowded accomodation and even direct provision.

downthemiddle

facehugger99 wrote: »

Internet anecdotes are great.

Meanwhile back in the real-world, 0.001% of the population are currently hospitalized with this terrifying virus.

The general public will not accept their children's education being sacrificed to placate the covid-bedwetters or the teaching unions.

Based on your posting history if you attempted to hug your own face you would, in all probability, miss the target.

Will Yam

Blondini wrote: »

The HSE has said that the number of Covid-19 cases in schools is 131, with 96 cases believed to have arisen through community transmission, and another 35 where transmission may have occurred in a school.

1 million students. 40,000 (?) employees in schools.

131 cases out of 1m +............

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

To protect schools we don’t keep children home, we deal with the increasing rate of outbreak in the communities that schools are based in, including isolating classes and schools where appropriate.

the evidence is that schools are following the spread.

HSE Chief Clinical Officer Dr Colm Henry wrote: »

cases in schools are not driving community transmission.

cases in schools do not seem to be driving community transmission, adding that community transmission remains the greatest threat to schools and not the other way round.

.

Purplewaters

Will Yam wrote: »

1 million students. 40,000 (?) employees in schools.

131 cases out of 1m +............

OK so then 200 a month aka 800 a term is OK? Even if they pass it on to 800 more and so on?

Will Yam

The chan chan man wrote: »

The huge increase in numbers has coincided with the schools opening... Are they not willing to accept that as an issue?

The rise in cases started c July 28th and grew from then. The growth started well before schools went back.

It has accelerated since then but the evidence is that the acceleration occurred in households.

There have been about 3,000 cases since sept 1. 131 of those in schools. 4% of total.

That said it is likely - but not substantiated that schools can act as a type of interchange for Covid.

Will Yam

Purplewaters wrote: »

OK so then 200 a month aka 800 a term is OK? Even if they pass it on to 800 more and so on?

No case is ok.

But obsessing about a sector which has 4% of all cases since they reopened is like trying to blame international travel for the spread of the virus (2%) of total.

We should focus where the problem is.

Smacruairi

Will Yam wrote: »

The rise in cases started c July 28th and grew from then. The growth started well before schools went back.

It has accelerated since then but the evidence is that the acceleration occurred in households.

There have been about 3,000 cases since sept 1. 131 of those in schools. 4% of total.

That said it is likely - but not substantiated that schools can act as a type of interchange for Covid.

Just a quick check. You seem like an educated guy. Do you honestly think that having every single kid back in the same building at the same time, while cases are rising and restrictions are tightening back up again, is the right thing to do, both from a safety point of view, and to maintain consistency in message across the country? Do u honestly believe that teenagers, in particular, do not spread the virus as easily as adults, despite the fact that the may be more prone to being asymptomatic? Do you think that if the spread picks up, we end up with icus full again (a big if!), that those who downplayed the severity of the pandemic should face negligence charges.

Some straight forward questions, and a big hypothetical, but I'd love to have a quick engagement on that one if I could, please.

Will Yam

Purplewaters wrote: »

Pretty sure our numbers are worse than Melbourne who are still on a strict lockdown. .They have similar population to us too.

Latest figures I can find are 203/100k in Victoria vs 40/100k in Ireland.

JimmyVik

Purplewaters wrote: »

OK so then 200 a month aka 800 a term is OK? Even if they pass it on to 800 more and so on?

Its already higher than 200.
But they arent releasing the figures.
They'll drop them in quietly some day

thomasdylan

Smacruairi wrote: »

Do you think that if the spread picks up, we end up with icus full again (a big if!), that those who downplayed the severity of the pandemic should face negligence charges.

Negligence?
Where is the duty of care?
Do you understand what negligence is?

Smacruairi

thomasdylan wrote: »

Negligence?
Where is the duty of care?
Do you understand what negligence is?

Negligence (Lat. negligentia) is a failure to exercise appropriate and or ethical ruled care expected to be exercised amongst specified circumstances.

So yes, the DES, in ignoring all who guidelines and in advocating in keeping schools open fully, even in level 5 scenarios, should be accountable for negligency should we end up with huge numbers in hospitals, no?

Will Yam

Smacruairi wrote: »

Just a quick check. You seem like an educated guy. Do you honestly think that having every single kid back in the same building at the same time, while cases are rising and restrictions are tightening back up again, is the right thing to do, both from a safety point of view, and to maintain consistency in message across the country? Do u honestly believe that teenagers, in particular, do not spread the virus as easily as adults, despite the fact that the may be more prone to being asymptomatic? Do you think that if the spread picks up, we end up with icus full again (a big if!), that those who downplayed the severity of the pandemic should face negligence charges.

Some straight forward questions, and a big hypothetical, but I'd love to have a quick engagement on that one if I could, please.

Yes, I do think it’s the right thing to do. I think education is probably more important than anything else, bar hospitals.

I know well how teenagers behave.

No, I don’t believe those who advocated this policy should be charged with negligence, or anything else.

And I believe M Martin was right to insist on schools opening. Had he waited until all the “stakeholders” agreed that every last i was dotted and t crossed the schools would never reopen. (It’s a little bit like the leaving cert scandal - let’s not do anything becuse we might not get it all right).

We live in a pandemic which brings lots of risk. Some level of normality has to be had, even at risk.

Smacruairi

Will Yam wrote: »

Yes, I do think it’s the right thing to do. I think education is probably more important than anything else, bar hospitals.

I know well how teenagers behave.

No, I don’t believe those who advocated this policy should be charged with negligence, or anything else.

And I believe M Martin was right to insist on schools opening. Had he waited until all the “stakeholders” agreed that every last i was dotted and t crossed the schools would never reopen. (It’s a little bit like the leaving cert scandal - let’s not do anything becuse we might not get it all right).

We live in a pandemic which brings lots of risk. Some level of normality has to be had, even at risk.

That's fine, thanks for answering. I completely disagree but that's life. I would agree with risk, but with most businesses wfh, with our own assembly not taking any risks in a massive convention centre, I call hypocrisy in the highest, but thank you for engaging.

Will Yam

Smacruairi wrote: »

Negligence (Lat. negligentia) is a failure to exercise appropriate and or ethical ruled care expected to be exercised amongst specified circumstances.

So yes, the DES, in ignoring all who guidelines and in advocating in keeping schools open fully, even in level 5 scenarios, should be accountable for negligency should we end up with huge numbers in hospitals, no?

If you follow this argument you could hold every supermarket owner in the country liable for negligence.

And every restaurant owner.

And every church that had mass.

As I said there is risk everywhere.

khalessi

Will Yam wrote: »

No case is ok.

But obsessing about a sector which has 4% of all cases since they reopened is like trying to blame international travel for the spread of the virus (2%) of total.

We should focus where the problem is.

Agreed but the schools are only open 3 weeks for some and already accounting for 4% of all cases. By all means we should be focusing on the propblem but also realise that there is another potential problem in the wings.

The government decided to ignore the roadmap to reopening which mentioned phased reopening of schools. They are so afraid of criticism on anything that now they have blocked NPHET from them through 2 committees. They released the new living with Covid guidelines, then self isolated a few hours later at the thoughts of one minister as a potential contact, and yet their schools are jam packed to the gills and very high risk teachers have been down graded to high risk and close contacts are being ignored. They are unwilling to see schools as a possible issue.

Will Yam

Smacruairi wrote: »

That's fine, thanks for answering. I completely disagree but that's life. I would agree with risk, but with most businesses wfh, with our own assembly not taking any risks in a massive convention centre, I call hypocrisy in the highest, but thank you for engaging.

You have a point about the convention centre. But if they all crammed into the dail they would be accused of flouting guidelines.

Smacruairi

Will Yam wrote: »

If you follow this argument you could hold every supermarket owner in the country liable for negligence.

And every restaurant owner.

And every church that had mass.

As I said there is risk everywhere.

Well no,not really. If I bring my school on a trip to the aviva stadium, will they allow 700 kids into one stand? If the answer is no, why?

khalessi

Will Yam wrote: »

You have a point about the convention centre. But if they all crammed into the dail they would be accused of flouting guidelines.

They would be grand as 40cm is the same as 1 metre distance, I have it in writing from the Dept of Ed:D:D

Will Yam

khalessi wrote: »

Agreed but the schools are only open 3 weeks for some and already accounting for 4% of all cases. By all means we should be focusing on the propblem but also realise that there is another potential problem in the wings.

The government decided to ignore the roadmap to reopening which mentioned phased reopening of schools. They are so afraid of criticism on anything that now they have blocked NPHET from them through 2 committees. They released the new living with Covid guidelines, then self isolated a few hours later at the thoughts of one minister as a potential contact, and yet their schools are jam packed to the gills and very high risk teachers have been down graded to high risk and close contacts are being ignored. They are unwilling to see schools as a possible issue.

Of course the schools may become a serious problem. But 4%, even after 3 weeks isn’t at that point.

As for phased reopening, that ship has sailed, and to use that dreadful phrase, we are where we are.

But if I were M Martin I would have opened them all up on day one.

I remember some stakeholders demanding they remain closed until they got a guarantee they would have no risk of Covid. On hearing that I said to myself that m Martin had a choice - open them all up or forget it completely.

And he was right not to make the same mistake as was made with the leaving cert.

Will Yam

Smacruairi wrote: »

Well no,not really. If I bring my school on a trip to the aviva stadium, will they allow 700 kids into one stand? If the answer is no, why?

Because kids don’t get their education in a football stadium.

It’s not a bad idea, though.

wirelessdude01

Will Yam wrote: »

You have a point about the convention centre. But if they all crammed into the dail they would be accused of flouting guidelines.

Similar to schools so. Somehow the wizards that drew up the plan think that 40cm equates to 1m.

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

Agreed but the schools are only open 3 weeks for some and already accounting for 4% of all cases. By all means we should be focusing on the propblem but also realise that there is another potential problem in the wings.

The government decided to ignore the roadmap to reopening which mentioned phased reopening of schools. They are so afraid of criticism on anything that now they have blocked NPHET from them through 2 committees. They released the new living with Covid guidelines, then self isolated a few hours later at the thoughts of one minister as a potential contact, and yet their schools are jam packed to the gills and very high risk teachers have been down graded to high risk and close contacts are being ignored. They are unwilling to see schools as a possible issue.

20% of the population account for 4% of cases?

khalessi

Will Yam wrote: »

Because kids don’t get their education in a football stadium.

It’s not a bad idea, though.

They do in Denmark:D:D It was one of the building they used in the reopening of schools to ensure social distancing.:D

Will Yam

khalessi wrote: »

Agreed but the schools are only open 3 weeks for some and already accounting for 4% of all cases. By all means we should be focusing on the propblem but also realise that there is another potential problem in the wings.

The government decided to ignore the roadmap to reopening which mentioned phased reopening of schools. They are so afraid of criticism on anything that now they have blocked NPHET from them through 2 committees. They released the new living with Covid guidelines, then self isolated a few hours later at the thoughts of one minister as a potential contact, and yet their schools are jam packed to the gills and very high risk teachers have been down graded to high risk and close contacts are being ignored. They are unwilling to see schools as a possible issue.

Were the “very high risk” teachers downgraded to “high risk” by the politicians?

I know some of these “very high risk” people........l.

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

20% of the population account for 4% of cases?

Quote Will Yam it was his statistic

Will Yam

khalessi wrote: »

They do in Denmark:D:D It was one of the building they used in the reopening of schools to ensure social distancing.:D

I’d have no problem with that at all.

khalessi

Will Yam wrote: »

Were the “very high risk” teachers downgraded to “high risk” by the politicians?

I know some of these “very high risk” people........l.

So do I and some were in the paper as they had cancer, removal of kidney and other medical ailments and that was one person.

They were downgraded by Medmark which is owned by Eammon Ryan's brother, and I am talking proper cases that their consultants decided they were very high risk not the ones who self diagnose.