Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

weldoninhio wrote: »

Meanwhile fattys, smokers and drinkers have been overwhelming it for years.

neither are contagious illnesses so are not a valid comparison.

Stormyteacup wrote: »

The government have not acknowledged the economy since the very start - except to acknowledge it was put on hold to prioritise the health of society.

Fine - agree or disagree with it, lockdown happened,

The virus is not out of control. 164 admissions to hospital since end of June, with 6,000 cases detected (likely along with cases not detected).

People like me who accept mask wearing, distancing, hygiene and even maintaining a reduced number of social contacts, are not a tiny tin-foil hat wearing minority, who shrug at the idea of body bags.

Bears repeating - virus is not out of control.

Might the health system get out of control? Yes it’s a possibility and one nobody wants to watch unfold.

Why not use our supposed unlimited borrowing power to strike a balanced deal with private hospitals to ensure enough capacity to deal with any surge in hospitalisations. Maybe because at 115 million per month it’s cheaper to pay people to sit at home (with far less compliance than last time) for the short term and deal with any fall out later.

Restrictions served their purpose - any further restriction are futile and will result in large-scale civil unrest.

Maybe we need a return to Leo’s heartfelt and sincere appeals to the people for solidarity, as unpalatable as they were - because threats of lockdown and perverse engendering of division of society will not work this time.

they absolutely have done so, that is why our approach has been a balancing act. the main parts and high contributing parts of the economy kept going.
if you can quote where i said the virus is out of control that would be great, thanks, as i'm 100% sure i never said such.
restrictions will have served their purpose when the virus is no more, until then they are needed so we can keep it at a managable level and keep our country working. any further restrictions won't be futile if they are actually needed, and civil unrest won't change anything.

polesheep wrote: »

There is an obvious reason why 'Herd immunity has become a toxic phrase. With herd immunity the herd will survive. There will be a minority that won't live, but the herd lives on. During Covid, the minority, or those advocating for them, has been driving the narrative and this is the reason why the concept of herd immunity was vilified. But here's the thing, the herd doesn't care. The herd will move on anyway. We are seeing signs of that now, everywhere in the world. Now, you can react with outrage at the idea of the herd moving on, but you cannot change nature.

herd immunity wasn't "toxic" but rather undeliverable at worst, and at best only potentially deliverable, with serious consequences to only maybe but not really achieve it in reality, hence why it wasn't persued.

facehugger99 wrote: »

With the upsurge in cases among the 20-25 years old demographic, it seems that telling young people they have to put their social-lives on hold for an indefinite time (years?), for a virus that poses almost zero risk to them, just ain't going to wash anymore.

I surprised it's taken them this long to figure it out.

I'm very hopeful that a widespread campaign of civil disobedience against the never-ending restrictions, by young people, will eventually force the cowardly Governments hand.

if it does force their hand, i suspect it won't be in the way you would be hoping for.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I've noticed also the protests getting more and more frequent. Thousands marching vs restrictions and masks last week. and 2 weeks before that I think too.

Taxi drivers this week.

HSE doctor coming out saying what we are doing is nonsense and then forced to resign.

If they announce L3 for Dublin - more protests by next week I'd say. People are really not taking this anymore, I think golfgate had a lot to do with it. (along with ridiculousness of the restrictions, the 9 euro chicken wings protecting vs covid...)

thousands? didn't look like that to me from any of the pictures i saw of the protests tbh.
the likes of golfgate were always going to be used by some who didn't really want to pull their weight anyway, as an excuse to rail against everything, it was the same with the blm protest etc.
the reason for the meal requirement in exchange for reopening was to make it harder to engage in pub crawls and to keep numbers attending the pubs lower by making it a bit more difficult.
9 euro meals were about trying to stop some pubs from scrimping on food provision and then charging ridiculous money on it, granted that didn't seem to work in some cases unfortunately.meals don't protect one from getting covid 19.

Deleted User wrote: »

ICivil unrest - Check.

Not sure about that one, most people from what I see in Polls on news sites is that people support the NPHET-FFFG measures.

Apart from the odd Anti-Mask/Vax protests I don't see any civil unrest?

Anyone who disagrees with the Govt. restrictions is usually labelled as being part of the Tin Foil hat brigade, or a disiple of Jim Corr, a supporter of Gemma O'Doherty etc. etc...
We don't do civil dis-obedience in this country...

paw patrol wrote: »

there is one planned 3rd Oct in Dublin.
Unless Barry Cowan and Phil Hogan tag-team to oust the current blowhards and cancel this nonsense, I'll be there for sure.

So do you think the current level 3 won't move to a Level 4 by then and up until Christmas for Dublin?

end of the road wrote: »

thousands? didn't look like that to me from any of the pictures i saw of the protests tbh.
the likes of golfgate were always going to be used by some who didn't really want to pull their weight anyway, as an excuse to rail against everything, it was the same with the blm protest etc.

"Gardaí in Pearse Street are investigating an incident of assault that occurred during a protest. No formal complaint has been made at this time. Investigations are ongoing."

Around 2,000 people are estimated to have taken part in the march.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0913/1164933-dublin-protest-assault/

From RTE. aka governments TV channel.

funny enough, if you multiply that by 10, you ll get same figure as that of trafalgar square anti covid protest in London recently. Irish population is 10 times less than England.

bottom line is, 2000+ protesting in Dublin alone would be unheard of pre 2020. Govt are doing something very wrong, whether you support them or not.

golfgate just showed that politicians over 50 years old dont take covid seriously. interpret it whichever way you d like. (wasnt exactly 82 teenagers in attendance now wer there)

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah civil disobedience isn’t really our thing.
I used the word unrest as I think it’s only really beginning to show so far.
A few thousand protesters in Dublin. Taxi drivers doing their own protest. Entertainment industry as well. Pubs threatened to protest.
The general mood is shifting slowly but surely. Most people are beginning to get frustrated having their lives on hold.
I’d say unrest at the moment. Could turn nasty if things carry on as they are.

Last time I recall any notable civil unrest in Dublin was 14 years ago for the "Love Ulster" protest...

Apart from a few marches the odd time, the Irish people will accept whatever the Govt. tell us.. and all we'll do is go onto the Journal.ie comments or here and moan about it...

Deleted User wrote: »

I hear NPHET want level 4 for Dublin. If the government agree to that, that may well be the final nail in the economic coffin.

Unemployment would likely jump back to over 20% and more billions spent to pay people to sit at home.

And the cases either won’t go down or will just jump back up a few weeks later.

For years to come we will have deaths and all kinds of societal issues caused by lockdown/restrictions.

And if Dublin moves to L4, the rest of the country has to move to L3, doesn't it?

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So do you think the current level 3 won't move to a Level 4 by then and up until Christmas for Dublin?

perhaps , that's not my call.


As a voter and taxpayer it is only correct for me to voice my extreme disquiet over the handling of this matter and the general direction of the country. Emails to my TDs has done little so protest is my only recourse - unless you think I should consider armed insurrection but I'm not prepared for that:)


Funny thing about Christmas - if there is a level 3,4 or 5 at Christmas the state will lose all credibility as even the lockdown cheerleaders will ignore the rules to meet and celebrate with family and friends. And house parties will be off the charts too

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-dublin-should-be-at-level-4-doctor-says-1.4357279

An entire article arguing for new restrictions based solely on generic "experts" and "doctors". Not one statement regarding the social or economical arguments against them. This article is a perfect example of pure, unfiltered hysteria. The media and politicians can no longer see the wood from the trees and are in charge of a slow motion car crash with the economy and society. Not one social or economic reason against the narrow-minded health "experts"!

just like all the other articles you have posted and then claimed hysteria because you don't like what is contained within them, this one equals no hysteria either.
there are no economic arguments against the restrictions for the simple reason that without restrictions the only other option is another full lock down, which i would imagine none of us want, i certainly don't anyway.
there are also no social arguments against them either because the effect socially is only rather small anyway, social interaction is possible and has been since lockdown ended, it was even so before.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Just wonder how NPHET-FFFG plan on controlling house parties, they can close the pubs but can't stop the house parties... Unless they plan on closing off-licenses as well, but as we know prohibition never works..

ultimately they aren't really going to do anything as you can't really stop house parties.
house parties would happen whether the pubs reopened or not, so that is actually an area where the government can't really do much if anything.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Here's which Dublin Bus routes are curtailed the most due to anti-social behaviour

DUBLIN BUS ROUTES have been curtailed a total of 92 times so far this year, an increase of over 30% on the same time last year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-anti-social-behaviour-2-5207033-Sep2020/

Level 3 or 4 or 5, whatever they announce today they better not ask gardai to enforce it. Gardai have clearly dropped a ball this year, due to them being asked to walk around pubs and measure distance between tables.

The youth in my area is out of control, non stop fireworks ever since Leaving cert results came out last week... seriously worrying.

routes were curtailed a lot more in previous years, so nothing to do with the garda doing the odd check to insure establishments are abiding by the requirements, which is not really resource intencive anyway.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

“We need to take into account other factors other than purely public health. We need to recognise that we have managed to suppress this virus. Back in April, on one day there were 155 people in ICU with the virus, today there are 14.

“This second phase of the pandemic is not like the first phase. My concern is the impact this is having not just on young people and children but on the mental health of the elderly and the anxiety levels of the country. We can't have a situation whereby restrictions are brought in, then removed, numbers go back up again. We’ll drive ourselves mad if we keep doing this for another five or six months,” Deputy O’Callaghan said.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/well-drive-ourselves-mad-if-we-keep-doing-this-for-another-five-or-six-months-jim-ocallaghan-on-covid-restriction-changes-39539583.html

We need more of this. So so so much more of this. This thing that we lost as a country, when we accepted the 9 euro meal for pubs serving food idea. The common sense.

we didn't lose common sense at all, it was just the case that a bit more never had it in the first place then was first thought, hence us having to implement some more restrictions because they wouldn't abide by the original ones.
as has been said, the government take a lot of factors into account when making decisions, they have to and always have had to throughout this. it was not just about public health all though that was very important.

Zebra3 wrote: »

So just needlessly add on more for future generations to pay back?

For something that has nothing to do with them?

debt was being added on regardless of what approach was taken.
as has been said before, the country was never going to escape economic issues related to covid.

Do we have any figures for deaths for 2020 so far as compared to other years?. I remember seeing a chart a while ago but can't remember where.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

bottom line is, 2000+ protesting in Dublin alone would be unheard of pre 2020.

You must have missed the water charge protests then?

Penfailed wrote: »

You must have missed the water charge protests then?

I did. But if logic is anything to go by they worked as there are no water charges in Ireland (I havent paid any anyways).

Hopefully the 2k protesting last week will give us a fighting chance to avoid level 3 this week.

facehugger99 wrote: »

Unfortunately this is not the case.

The oncoming recession will see health budgets slashed by the tune of millions, potentially for many years to come.

Life expectancy is very much linked to economic ability to pay for a decent health service. We are likely to see a substantial deterioration in public health over the coming years. It's not going to be accompanied by daily numbers read out like the Angelus at 6pm every day and it won't be accompanied by hysterical posts on Facebook and Boards.

Still, I think we established some months ago that only Covid deaths actually count, so there is that.

Very true - has been said many times that health of the economy and public health is inextricably linked.

Just depressing to listen to plans from the government that will only further destroy the economy, when recovery could have been started in May with much damage mitigated.

Penfailed wrote: »

There were 15k plus people at those. Not sure why you think that there haven't been protests of more than 2k prior to 2020.

Been told on this very forum, in this very thread actually that protests against covid restrictions will never happen. I think, and i can paraphrase "we Irish are not the protesting type". Was told this back in first 2 weeks of June. So you may appreciate my surprise to see 2k gathering so early.

Well I suppose if 15k did the job at reversing water charges, come end of November if these draconian restrictions still rage on we may see 5 to 8 k people protesting. PUP reduction is in effect since yesterday also, hurting people's pockets in addition to every 6th person being out of work. Jacdaniel2014 predicted this, ever since May actually, some smart people on here.