Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Multipass · 17-09-2020 09:39AM

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/573821/we-need-crisis-intervention-nearly-70-patients-on-trolleys-at-university-hospital-limerick.html

Nothing to do with the virus.... imagine if they'd put some of the billions spent on covid into bringing up the basic standards in every hospital. How many lives could have been saved. There aren’t even enough trolleys now - patients are in chairs. Probably because beds have been closed for distancing purposes due to covid. Yeah, a bed is too dangerous for a sick person, here have a chair in a corridor.

Nermal · 17-09-2020 09:48AM

It's never too late to admit a mistake.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1306367279995801603

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 09:52AM

Explainer: Travel to and from Dublin – you can go (for now) but are asked not to
The public is being asked not to travel in or out of the county unless it is necessary

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/explainer-travel-to-and-from-dublin-you-can-go-for-now-but-are-asked-not-to-1.4356627?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fhealth%2Fexplainer-travel-to-and-from-dublin-you-can-go-for-now-but-are-asked-not-to-1.4356627

Irish times didnt take long to start fear mongering. You can go (for now)

:D:D
You can go, anywhere, anytime. And you couldve actually done it throughout. Evident by Government's legal representation statement below

"THE STATE SAYS that measures introduced by the Government in response to the Covid-19 pandemic do not impose a legal restriction on travel in and out of the country.

The measures, the High Court heard today, are merely advisory, have been reviewed regularly, and are not binding in nature."

https://www.thejournal.ie/state-high-court-ryanair-case-5206564-Sep2020/

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting from the government. I remember, very clearly, (and i am pretty sure Ryanair solicitors will have this as video evidence) of multiple govt officials including Leo saying "you must self isolate for 14 days upon your return". That doesnt sound advisory to me. Watch this space.

Zebra3 · 17-09-2020 09:54AM

Nermal wrote: »

It's never too late to admit a mistake.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1306367279995801603

What time is she getting sacked at for expressing her opinion?

polesheep · 17-09-2020 09:57AM

Nermal wrote: »

It's never too late to admit a mistake.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1306367279995801603

There is an obvious reason why 'Herd immunity has become a toxic phrase. With herd immunity the herd will survive. There will be a minority that won't live, but the herd lives on. During Covid, the minority, or those advocating for them, has been driving the narrative and this is the reason why the concept of herd immunity was vilified. But here's the thing, the herd doesn't care. The herd will move on anyway. We are seeing signs of that now, everywhere in the world. Now, you can react with outrage at the idea of the herd moving on, but you cannot change nature.

completedit · 17-09-2020 10:12AM

polesheep wrote: »

There is an obvious reason why 'Herd immunity has become a toxic phrase. With herd immunity the herd will survive. There will be a minority that won't live, but the herd lives on. During Covid, the minority, or those advocating for them, has been driving the narrative and this is the reason why the concept of herd immunity was vilified. But here's the thing, the herd doesn't care. The herd will move on anyway. We are seeing signs of that now, everywhere in the world. Now, you can react with outrage at the idea of the herd moving on, but you cannot change nature.

Its the 21st century civilized version of those tribes that club their old to death because they start to become a burden. It's nothing personal; it's a matter of life and death for the whole.

Lundstram · 17-09-2020 10:22AM

road_high wrote: »

Another hammer blow for the decimated hotel and leisure industry, also retail: thry rely hugely on people from the surrounding counties buying there

Sledgehammer to break a nut approach.

Nice timing yesterday announcing no tax hikes in budget 2021. Set to borrow another €20BN to paper over the cracks. It’s going to be a rough few years ahead.

All for a virus that will not affect 99.5% of the population.

Zebra3 · 17-09-2020 10:35AM

Lundstram wrote: »

Set to borrow another €20BN to paper over the cracks.

Stealing from future generations.

Whatsisname · 17-09-2020 10:45AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

What time is she getting sacked at for expressing her opinion?

She's had the same opinion for months now, one of the more sane scientists out there right now. She seems to finally be getting a platform from the media. Along with Carl Heneghan, both from Oxford. But some people will deem Oxford scientists as the ones not to be listened to.

facehugger99 · 17-09-2020 10:53AM

road_high wrote: »

These restrictions are not going to work btw

Restrictions haven't worked so let's have more restrictions.

Hilarious stuff from bureaucrats who haven't worked a day in the real economy in their lives.

facehugger99 · 17-09-2020 10:58AM

With the upsurge in cases among the 20-25 years old demographic, it seems that telling young people they have to put their social-lives on hold for an indefinite time (years?), for a virus that poses almost zero risk to them, just ain't going to wash anymore.

I surprised it's taken them this long to figure it out.

I'm very hopeful that a widespread campaign of civil disobedience against the never-ending restrictions, by young people, will eventually force the cowardly Governments hand.

dalyboy · 17-09-2020 10:58AM

Whatsisname wrote: »

She's had the same opinion for months now, one of the more sane scientists out there right now. She seems to finally be getting a platform from the media. Along with Carl Heneghan, both from Oxford. But some people will deem Oxford scientists as the ones not to be listened to.

Yet they are “all ears” at any news from the vaccine that Oxford are developing. Ever so slight conflict of interest..

road_high · 17-09-2020 11:00AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Restrictions haven't worked so let's have more restrictions.

Hilarious stuff from bureaucrats who haven't worked a day in the real economy in their lives.

Well beyond a joke now. I really hope there is a lot of anti zealot restrictions tension and carry on as before living in Dublin.
All these toss pots are doing is hammering easy targets - a vanity project up look like they are fighting a virus (which once endemic is simply impossible to control)

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 11:26AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

With the upsurge in cases among the 20-25 years old demographic, it seems that telling young people they have to put their social-lives on hold for an indefinite time (years?), for a virus that poses almost zero risk to them, just ain't going to wash anymore.

I surprised it's taken them this long to figure it out.

I'm very hopeful that a widespread campaign of civil disobedience against the never-ending restrictions, by young people, will eventually force the cowardly Governments hand.

I've noticed also the protests getting more and more frequent. Thousands marching vs restrictions and masks last week. and 2 weeks before that I think too.

Taxi drivers this week.

HSE doctor coming out saying what we are doing is nonsense and then forced to resign.

If they announce L3 for Dublin - more protests by next week I'd say. People are really not taking this anymore, I think golfgate had a lot to do with it. (along with ridiculousness of the restrictions, the 9 euro chicken wings protecting vs covid...)

Captain_Crash · 17-09-2020 12:08PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

If they announce L3 for Dublin - more protests by next week I'd say. People are really not taking this anymore, I think golfgate had a lot to do with it. (along with ridiculousness of the restrictions, the 9 euro chicken wings protecting vs covid...)

I heard that Dublin is likely to move to level 3, but with pubs closed... now correct me if I'm wrong, but the government paid a PR company to gloss up and publish the covid plan and within 48 hours, the government start changing it to suit specific areas.... making things more confusing in the process.

I have no issue with tailored measures for specific areas provided they are backed up with solid data... but why bother waste tax payer money on a plan, present it as some great new hope only to depart from it within a few days???

In fact, the media blames house parties for the surge in cases, closing the few pubs that are open will only increase the number of house parties, that's just basic common sense.

ShyMets · 17-09-2020 12:33PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I heard that Dublin is likely to move to level 3, but with pubs closed... now correct me if I'm wrong, but the government paid a PR company to gloss up and publish the covid plan and within 48 hours, the government start changing it to suit specific areas.... making things more confusing in the process.

I have no issue with tailored measures for specific areas provided they are backed up with solid data... but why bother waste tax payer money on a plan, present it as some great new hope only to depart from it within a few days???

In fact, the media blames house parties for the surge in cases, closing the few pubs that are open will only increase the number of house parties, that's just basic common sense.

I haven't seen any suggestion that pubs operating as restaurants will close. Level 3 allows for 'wet' pubs to remain open but with additional restrictions.

Dublin will be at level 3.5 because 'wet' pubs will remain closed along with other restrictions

JRant · 17-09-2020 12:43PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I heard that Dublin is likely to move to level 3, but with pubs closed... now correct me if I'm wrong, but the government paid a PR company to gloss up and publish the covid plan and within 48 hours, the government start changing it to suit specific areas.... making things more confusing in the process.

I have no issue with tailored measures for specific areas provided they are backed up with solid data... but why bother waste tax payer money on a plan, present it as some great new hope only to depart from it within a few days???

In fact, the media blames house parties for the surge in cases, closing the few pubs that are open will only increase the number of house parties, that's just basic common sense.

It gets even more confusing than that. They want people to socialize in controlled settings, like pubs, to stop it spreading in house parties. However, the numbers are increasing due to house parties* so they won't open the pubs to allow it in a more controlled environment. It's like we are stuck in a mobius loop.

* Just to note, there has been zero evidence to suggest house parties are the driving cause of the rising numbers.

JRant · 17-09-2020 12:45PM

ShyMets wrote: »

I haven't seen any suggestion that pubs operating as restaurants will close. Level 3 allows for 'wet' pubs to remain open but with additional restrictions.

Dublin will be at level 3.5 because 'wet' pubs will remain closed along with other restrictions

More of a level 4.0 lite, with pubs closed and travel restrictions outside the county.

Assetbacked · 17-09-2020 12:56PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-dublin-should-be-at-level-4-doctor-says-1.4357279

An entire article arguing for new restrictions based solely on generic "experts" and "doctors". Not one statement regarding the social or economical arguments against them. This article is a perfect example of pure, unfiltered hysteria. The media and politicians can no longer see the wood from the trees and are in charge of a slow motion car crash with the economy and society. Not one social or economic reason against the narrow-minded health "experts"!

Tenzor07 · 17-09-2020 01:02PM

JRant wrote: »

It gets even more confusing than that. They want people to socialize in controlled settings, like pubs, to stop it spreading in house parties. However, the numbers are increasing due to house parties* so they won't open the pubs to allow it in a more controlled environment. It's like we are stuck in a mobius loop.
* Just to note, there has been zero evidence to suggest house parties are the driving cause of the rising numbers.

Just wonder how NPHET-FFFG plan on controlling house parties, they can close the pubs but can't stop the house parties... Unless they plan on closing off-licenses as well, but as we know prohibition never works..

woodchuck · 17-09-2020 01:06PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Just wonder how NPHET-FFFG plan on controlling house parties, they can close the pubs but can't stop the house parties... Unless they plan on closing off-licenses as well, but as we know prohibition never works..

The number of house parties would likely reduce if people were allowed to drink in a pub instead. It's likely safer for people to drink in a controlled environment (a pub) instead of an uncontrolled environment (a house party).

This is just a theory of course, but surely one worth trying. It also has the added bonus of boosting the economy.

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 01:10PM

Here's which Dublin Bus routes are curtailed the most due to anti-social behaviour

DUBLIN BUS ROUTES have been curtailed a total of 92 times so far this year, an increase of over 30% on the same time last year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-anti-social-behaviour-2-5207033-Sep2020/

Level 3 or 4 or 5, whatever they announce today they better not ask gardai to enforce it. Gardai have clearly dropped a ball this year, due to them being asked to walk around pubs and measure distance between tables.

The youth in my area is out of control, non stop fireworks ever since Leaving cert results came out last week... seriously worrying.

woodchuck · 17-09-2020 01:12PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

The youth in my area is out of control, non stop fireworks ever since Leaving cert results came out last week... seriously worrying.

We've had fireworks going off around our area for weeks now. No idea what it's about! We're not normally a very firework prone area.

Captain_Crash · 17-09-2020 01:17PM

ShyMets wrote: »

I haven't seen any suggestion that pubs operating as restaurants will close. Level 3 allows for 'wet' pubs to remain open but with additional restrictions.

Dublin will be at level 3.5 because 'wet' pubs will remain closed along with other restrictions

I've read online but heard nothing concrete, hence me saying "I've heard" as apposed to suggesting its actually the case. Truth be told, I dont think anyone knows, that includes the government

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 01:18PM

“We need to take into account other factors other than purely public health. We need to recognise that we have managed to suppress this virus. Back in April, on one day there were 155 people in ICU with the virus, today there are 14.

“This second phase of the pandemic is not like the first phase. My concern is the impact this is having not just on young people and children but on the mental health of the elderly and the anxiety levels of the country. We can't have a situation whereby restrictions are brought in, then removed, numbers go back up again. We’ll drive ourselves mad if we keep doing this for another five or six months,” Deputy O’Callaghan said.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/well-drive-ourselves-mad-if-we-keep-doing-this-for-another-five-or-six-months-jim-ocallaghan-on-covid-restriction-changes-39539583.html

We need more of this. So so so much more of this. This thing that we lost as a country, when we accepted the 9 euro meal for pubs serving food idea. The common sense.

Penfailed · 17-09-2020 01:20PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-dublin-should-be-at-level-4-doctor-says-1.4357279

An entire article arguing for new restrictions based solely on generic "experts" and "doctors". Not one statement regarding the social or economical arguments against them. This article is a perfect example of pure, unfiltered hysteria. The media and politicians can no longer see the wood from the trees and are in charge of a slow motion car crash with the economy and society. Not one social or economic reason against the narrow-minded health "experts"!

Do you seriously believe that the government don't realise the implications for the economy?

DangerScouse · 17-09-2020 01:21PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Here's which Dublin Bus routes are curtailed the most due to anti-social behaviour

DUBLIN BUS ROUTES have been curtailed a total of 92 times so far this year, an increase of over 30% on the same time last year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-anti-social-behaviour-2-5207033-Sep2020/

Level 3 or 4 or 5, whatever they announce today they better not ask gardai to enforce it. Gardai have clearly dropped a ball this year, due to them being asked to walk around pubs and measure distance between tables.

The youth in my area is out of control, non stop fireworks ever since Leaving cert results came out last week... seriously worrying.

Don't want to go so far off topic but the Gardai are in my eyes afraid of the feral youths and their families.

_Kaiser_ · 17-09-2020 01:27PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that the government don't realise the implications for the economy?

Of course they do, but they're even more concerned about their political futures and that of the parties. Add to that a generally weak, uninspired cabinet and set of ministers and the net result is that they are terrified to take any decision that they might have to also take responsibility for.

This is why Martin was at pains on the 6.1 the other day to stress NPHET's role and discretion over the "plan", and why Leo set up the precedent in the first place in March/April by effectively deferring all the decisions to them. It was only when members of his own Government started pushing back that Leo was forced to take an active role again.

Our political leaders are more concerned about their own political survival and futures than that of the businesses and people whose futures are being sacrificed by the measures they're rubber-stamping.

_Kaiser_ · 17-09-2020 01:28PM

DangerScouse wrote: »

Don't want to go so far off topic but the Gardai are in my eyes afraid of the feral youths and their families.

It's not so much fear as they know the justice system is so screwed up that getting a prosecution at all is hard enough, never mind an effective one.

mcgragger · 17-09-2020 01:32PM

woodchuck wrote: »

The number of house parties would likely reduce if people were allowed to drink in a pub instead. It's likely safer for people to drink in a controlled environment (a pub) instead of an uncontrolled environment (a house party).

This is just a theory of course, but surely one worth trying. It also has the added bonus of boosting the economy.

I have to disagree with your there.

Im 41 and would happily go to a pub and go home with a bag of chips after it.
Im from Dublin but dont live there anymore thankfully.
Older folk like me tend to have a few pints and go home.

My brothers are in their 20s and the pub is only a starter before they go back to a house for a party! I dont think there would be a massive drop off in house gatherings among younger people - more so they will be in a pub before the house party.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings