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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**
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While I miss friends and family in Ireland right now the decision to follow my partner to Sweden when he moved there earlier this year really has been fantastic seeing how Ireland (both society and government) is handling Covid-19. My mental health is great.
There are going to be long term societal issues in Ireland from this, it's obvious to me after seeing how it is all being handled. Got an absolute chock when I returned to Ireland early August to visit friends and family (took a test two days before departing Stockholm and self isolated for two weeks in Ireland of course). People are **** scared, media and government is just injecting fear and misery. Dublin is boarded up, people change side of the road when you walk by, my American friends living in Ireland are afraid to even go out for dinner because people think they are tourists. What a dystopia my lovely Ireland has become (really really hope temporarily).
In Sweden Schools and daycare are like before, no masks/shields/plexiglass, no pods, no inforced distance, no half days/part time in school, kids can be kids. There were no media panic or drama when schools opened again. Just some mention of the risks buts also the rewards. Most parents and teachers feel safe meaning that the kids are not worried or scared either.
Pubs and restaurants are open (they never closed) with few restrictions (need to be an arm lenght between tables). No masks anywhere (airports and flights though due to policy decisions by airlines and the main airport operator), meeting up with friends or family inside or outside is as normal, people are not afraid of eachother, singles are dating like before, weddings are going ahead, parents aren't instilling fear in their kids, old people are out and enjoying themselves/seeing friends and family (just with a bit of caution, my grandmother in-law for example goes to her favourite restaurant weekly and said that she rather die now at 89 living life to her fullest - than in 2 years after being locked up and scared until then) and no-one is giving out if kids from different households are playing together or if you have 30 people over for a BBQ or house party. However, if you attend a large house party you just don't visit grandma for a week or two just to be on the safe side (common sense in these times!). If you're feeling a bit sick you stay home and go and get a test (no referral needed, no cost and no waiting, result the next day).
There are no travel restrictions and no quarantine on arrival. You go wherever you want if you feel that you need or want it. Most Swedish people stayed in Sweden though this summer seeing records in the sale of boats, caravans, tenets, kayaks, fishing equipment etc.
Last week the Swedish version of the CMO announced that they recommend that the limit on organised public gatherings is increased from 50 to 500 (this never affected private gatherings like weddings or parties).
Sweden's largest bank Nordea now estimates that the Swedish economy will have fully recovered by the start of next summer and no more stimulus packages are necessary. I can understand why, people are back living their lives again, spending money and enjoying themselves and the confidence in the society is back.
The only thing that has changed is that people don't shake hands anymore and that it is socially unacceptable now to go to work or school if sick. Like it should be!
The current common sense recommendations clearly have effect while they also can be kept for years if necessary without harm to the society or the economy. Like they were intended to!
(Just use Google translate to read the economic verdict from Nordea) https://www.expressen.se/dinapengar/nordea-krisen-inte-lika-djup-som-befarat/
I'll start off by saying that I'm totally open to correction here as I have never visited Sweden. But from what I know of the country and its culture, it seems to be a very different society and culture to Ireland. A culture which is more socially isolated and where people generally have smaller social circles and where alcohol plays less of a role in social events. I personally don't believe for a second that the above measures would work in Ireland as well as they have worked in Sweden.
We live a very extroverted life in Ireland - many people have multiple social groups (and those who don't often feel like they should) and multiple social events every week. Large family gatherings, large weddings, large office parties, meeting up with different groups every week is the culture we have all acclimatised to. Social events which are very often centred around getting hammered. Concerts? Get hammered. Sports events? Have a few pints. Cinema? Dinner and scoops beforehand or after.
A pub-focused culture (and I'm not blaming the pubs for this, but just saying) that I don't believe Sweden has at all. When you add alcohol into the mix, inhibitions are lowered and it's much easier to justify disobeying restrictions or common sense. If you have a social culture at national level which is geared more towards alcohol, it is inevitable that cases in cultures/countries like that will be higher.
I'd also bet that most Swedish politicians and public figures are being responsible and consistent about this, unlike the government here who have been inconsistent and unpredictable in their handling of the restrictions. Add clowns like Phil Hogan and Dara Calleary into the mix and it's no surprise that many here are no longer taking the virus seriously. Or feel jaded from the restrictions and don't see the point in following them, at best.
I think we have far too much of a 'ah sure it'll be grand attitude' embedded in our culture to expect the masses here to attend a house party and then self-isolate for two weeks for the sake of protecting granny. I'm sure many Irish people would do something like that, but I'm also sure however that just as many would be too lackadaisical in their attitudes towards the virus to even bother. Sure self-isolating for two weeks after the party would mean missing out on the next social event and who would want to do that
Nobody's really focusing on the cultural side of how different countries are handling the virus but I really think attitudes towards socialising and alcohol in particular play a much larger role in all of this than people may be willing to admit. Would here be as much uproar in Sweden as there was here when the pubs closed? I'm willing to bet not a chance.0 -
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You are partly right and partly wrong. Irish people have this picture of Scandinavians not having a lot of friends and not socialising and being introverts. That is not really true. Sweden is more open than pictured by Irish people. Swedish people are much less for small talk and small banter but if you have something to talk about they are quite open. It is a difference between Stockholm and Dublin but not as large as people think. It is not like most people strike up a conversation on a packed LUAS in Dublin either... it is harder to make loose friends (the ones you meet at the pub now and then but not call when you are down) in Sweden but not harder to make deep friendship. Stockholm is packed with cafés, restaurants, bars and social places. A lot of people would have large social circles, but families are smaller. A typical Swedish wedding is probably 50-100 people. People here think I'm joking when I tell them that my sister had 300 at hers.I'll start off by saying that I'm totally open to correction here as I have never visited Sweden. But from what I know of the country and its culture, it seems to be a very different society and culture to Ireland. A culture which is more socially isolated and where people generally have smaller social circles and where alcohol plays less of a role in social events. I personally don't believe for a second that the above measures would work in Ireland as well as they have worked in Sweden.
We live a very extroverted life in Ireland - many people have multiple social groups (and those who don't often feel like they should) and multiple social events every week. Large family gatherings, large weddings, large office parties, meeting up with different groups every week is the culture we have all acclimatised to. Social events which are very often centred around getting hammered. Concerts? Get hammered. Sports events? Have a few pints. Cinema? Dinner and scoops beforehand or after.
A pub-focused culture (and I'm not blaming the pubs for this, but just saying) that I don't believe Sweden has at all. When you add alcohol into the mix, inhibitions are lowered and it's much easier to justify disobeying restrictions or common sense. If you have a social culture at national level which is geared more towards alcohol, it is inevitable that cases in cultures/countries like that will be higher.
I'd also bet that most Swedish politicians and public figures are being responsible and consistent about this, unlike the government here who have been inconsistent and unpredictable in their handling of the restrictions. Add clowns like Phil Hogan and Dara Calleary into the mix and it's no surprise that many here are no longer taking the virus seriously. Or feel jaded from the restrictions and don't see the point in following them, at best.
I think we have far too much of a 'ah sure it'll be grand attitude' embedded in our culture to expect the masses here to attend a house party and then self-isolate for two weeks for the sake of protecting granny. I'm sure many Irish people would do something like that, but I'm also sure however that just as many would be too lackadaisical in their attitudes towards the virus to even bother. Sure self-isolating for two weeks after the party would mean missing out on the next social event and who would want to do that
Nobody's really focusing on the cultural side of how different countries are handling the virus but I really think attitudes towards socialising and alcohol in particular play a much larger role in all of this than people may be willing to admit. Would here be as much uproar in Sweden as there was here when the pubs closed? I'm willing to bet not a chance.
Drinking in pubs is definitely a bigger part of society in Ireland. My Swedish boyfriend felt after many years in Dublin that everything just focuses around the pub and that people just do other stuff (like a hike in Howth) to have a reason to do something else than going to the pub while still going to the pub (since you hike and then drink in the pub) and the large focus on drinking and the pubs actually was one of the reasons why he never really felt at home in Dublin (combined with the quality of housing). However the Swedes still drink quite a lot the social scene in Stockholm is quite good. Less pubs than Dublin but more cocktail/fancy places if that make sense?
One big difference is how people live:
* Young working professionals (and many college students) live alone in apartments. The idea of sharing an apartment/house with random people until you move in with your boyfriend/girlfriend is considered strange and bad life quality. The idea of having your own apartment after moving out of home is as ingrained as the Irish need for a house with a garden.
* Old single people (widowed mostly) stay in their home with carers instead of moving home to their kids. My boyfriend's mom would not want to live with any of her kids when she gets older and that is fairly typical. This even though they have a very tight family.
The last part is very true. The "Shure it will be grand" attitude and "Everything will be alright (without actually doing anything towards making it allright)" is a very Irish thing and not having that attitude is one of the reasons why I think Scandinavia was pretty much unaffected by the Financial Crisis of 2008-2010.
Closing pubs would not cause as much of an uproar but it still would cause some. However limiting how many people could gather in a house would. A home is holy to an even higher extent than in Ireland and in your home you do what you want. Also having restrictions on children/education would. Childcare is around 100 Euro per kid per month and stay at home moms are very uncommon even amongst the very wealthy, so closing childcare or primary schools would have affected the society even more than in Ireland.
I still think including the differences in culture and society that Sweden is on a better path than Ireland.0 -
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