Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

patnor1011

It may be fair to speculate that it will be mostly young people getting fines if introduced. That can be another nail to FFG coffin come next election. Combine that with unhappiness with lockdowns and how they deal with this situation and opposition can not be happier they were excluded from the current mix of "career politicians".

FintanMcluskey

Lundstram wrote: »

.

33 people have committed suicide in the same month. That’s just the reported, figure likely to be higher.

What the ****??

1 a day??

facehugger99

facehugger99 wrote: »

100% correct - the reality has not yet hit but it's in the post and it's coming fast.

This is the calm before the storm, the current situation is unsustainable. The constant stream of negativity and hysteria pumped out by Government and media will be obstacles to any kind of return to normality in the medium term. Inflation is going to devalue people's salaries, pensions and savings over the next number of years.

Back in April I stared moving all of my cash savings into commodities, cryptos and recession-proof stocks - anyone who can should be doing the same.

Perhaps you could name these "recession-proof stocks" (LOL), so that we may do as you urge.

Lundstram

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What the ****??

1 a day??

11 reported from Galway.

Unless you know them you'd never know as they're reported as 'untimely or tragic deaths'. It's an epidemic in itself.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What the ****??

1 a day??

So...down on last year?

Penfailed

Lundstram wrote: »

It's an epidemic in itself.

...and has been for years. It's trending downwards though.

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

So...down on last year?

Like flu and pneumonia deaths coincidentally

Assetbacked

Lundstram wrote: »

11 reported from Galway.

Unless you know them you'd never know as they're reported as 'untimely or tragic deaths'. It's an epidemic in itself.

Unfortunately it is most prevalent in younger men unlike the boomer remover and as a result not subject to as much hysteria in a sort of self-perpetuating stereotype that such men are grand and should be strong.

PowerToWait

Lundstram wrote: »

Open the country fully you self serving arseholes!

By the country fully do you mean pubs? Who do you think benefits from keeping them shut? Like who is being self serving about what?

Assetbacked

PowerToWait wrote: »

By the country fully do you mean pubs? Who do you think benefits from keeping them shut? Like who is being self serving about what?

Politicians afraid of being held accountable and stepping into the job mid-crisis when maybe the civil servant advisors had already made the decision to outsource the decision making solely to NPHET and they were too terrified to go against this system as they are only about themselves and not rocking the boat. Stephen Donnelly in particular has left his brain at the door to the ministry for health.

Penfailed

Assetbacked wrote: »

Unfortunately it is most prevalent in younger men unlike the boomer remover and as a result not subject to as much hysteria in a sort of self-perpetuating stereotype that such men are grand and should be strong.

I think I've already posted this earlier in the thread but it's the biggest killer of males under the age of 45.

PowerToWait

Lundstram wrote: »

Don't be talking sh1te.


The funny thing is the GAA has suffered the most.

That’s bad.

PowerToWait

Assetbacked wrote: »

Politicians afraid of being held accountable and stepping into the job mid-crisis when maybe the civil servant advisors had already made the decision to outsource the decision making solely to NPHET and they were too terrified to go against this system as they are only about themselves and not rocking the boat. Stephen Donnelly in particular has left his brain at the door to the ministry for health.

That’s a pet theory.

Lundstram

PowerToWait wrote: »

By the country fully do you mean pubs? Who do you think benefits from keeping them shut? Like who is being self serving about what?

Covid19 daily figures announced to the world every single day. Suicides arent. Road deaths aren't. Cancer deaths aren't. Etc.

It's all about looking good on the global scale. They're prepared to destroy certain sectors of our society so they can brag about figures. Self preservation is important during this historic event.

They do not have our best interests at heart, you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

Yes, open wet pubs under the same conditions as the ones currently open, I've been to loads in the UK, never once encountered SD problems. They wil not open up the pubs as they think we are a bunch of drunken mucksavages who have to be nannyed at every turn.

They will not be picking up the tab for this. You and I will be, along with their big fat pensions.

_Kaiser_

PowerToWait wrote: »

By the country fully do you mean pubs? Who do you think benefits from keeping them shut? Like who is being self serving about what?

This notion that anyone who questions the ongoing restrictions is only concerned about pubs really needs to be put to bed.

Personally speaking I don't give a toss about pubs from a social perspective. It's rare enough I'd be in one (as most of my mates are long settled and live across multiple counties), and the notion of spending a small fortune on overpriced beer in a loud, overflowing environment doesn't appeal at this stage in my life (though of course I enjoyed them when I was younger).

However I recognise that pubs are an important social outlet for many and more than that a vital part of the local economy and employment. For THOSE reasons I fully support the idea of them being reopened ASAP

But I'll tell you what I consider "full reopening" and the impact/benefits.. and I'll preface it by saying that the actual stats (not just those selectively peddled in the headlines to justify the current course) and evidence prove that CV-19 is of little real risk to most people at this point.
New cases (as I keep saying!) mean nothing - the OUTCOME of those cases is what matters, and those outcomes show zero or minimal deaths in weeks, very low hospitalisations and even lower ICU cases, and that many of those infected are asymptomatic.

So, with that in mind, we need:

- Removal of this rule on food consumption in pubs, limited times, limited numbers etc.. a business cannot survive on 50% less trade for very long. The same applies to retail generally

- Removal of the legal requirement for face masks. It should never have passed in the first place and only adds to the fear and hysteria. We didn't have them for months and yet cases fell. Even with them, cases are now rising. Their effectiveness is questionable at best - not just for those factors but because most people don't use them correctly in the first place

- Removal on all restrictions relating to outdoor gatherings

- Removal of capacity limits on public transport

- Decide what our approach is to foreign travel, Be clear, consistent and in-line with those other countries with a similar profile to ourselves.

- No more threats of lockdowns and damaging restrictions from "experts" who are only looking at a complex issue from a single narrow perspective. Listening to the news at 10 on the radio, Glynn was quoted as saying we need to consider everyone in a group as a potential threat :rolleyes: More fear-mongering.

- Immediate scrapping of any of the "emergency" enforcement legislation introduced in generally a knee-jerk fashion to this "crisis"

- Encouragement of those who actually ARE at risk of serious illness or death from CV-19 to maintain their precautions. Everyone else should maintain good hygiene, distance where possible/they feel appropriate (personally I don't generally get in someone's face in a supermarket anyway - even before CV-19!), and wear masks if they feel safer doing so. But THAT IS IT. We cannot continue to sacrifice the welfare of the many to protect the few (who can be better protected through specific targeted measures anyway). Those who are at risk need to take personal responsibility based on their own particular circumstances

- Accept that some people WILL die. That is genuinely sad, but inevitable. We cannot save everyone from CV-19, no more than we can save everyone from a road death or cancer or any of the other myriad ways people die in this country every week.

The damage done by this disease to the health of the nation has now been far outstripped by the damage it's caused to our national psyche, economy and social cohesion. These are issues that will (if not addressed soon) continue to be felt for many years after CV-19 dies off or is vaccinated against/cured.

Our responses were entirely correct in March/April when we weren't ready as a country and didn't have much information to go on. 6 months later that has completely been flipped on its head and we are in a (EXTREMELY FORTUNATE) position where the actual danger is nowhere near what we thought in those early stages.

It's long, LONG past time to get over our earlier mindsets and fears and start dealing with the reality of where we are and the very real problems we've both created for ourselves and the even bigger ones that lie ahead in the coming months.

Penfailed

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This notion that anyone who questions the ongoing restrictions is only concerned about pubs really needs to be put to bed.

Personally speaking I don't give a toss about pubs from a social perspective. It's rare enough I'd be in one (as most of my mates are long settled and live across multiple counties), and the notion of spending a small fortune on overpriced beer in a loud, overflowing environment doesn't appeal at this stage in my life (though of course I enjoyed them when I was younger).

However I recognise that pubs are an important social outlet for many and more than that a vital part of the local economy and employment. For THOSE reasons I fully support the idea of them being reopened ASAP

But I'll tell you what I consider "full reopening" and the impact/benefits.. and I'll preface it by saying that the actual stats (not just those selectively peddled in the headlines to justify the current course) and evidence prove that CV-19 is of little real risk to most people at this point.
New cases (as I keep saying!) mean nothing - the OUTCOME of those cases is what matters, and those outcomes show zero or minimal deaths in weeks, very low hospitalisations and even lower ICU cases, and that many of those infected are asymptomatic.

So, with that in mind, we need:

- Removal of this rule on food consumption in pubs, limited times, limited numbers etc.. a business cannot survive on 50% less trade for very long. The same applies to retail generally

- Removal of the legal requirement for face masks. It should never have passed in the first place and only adds to the fear and hysteria. We didn't have them for months and yet cases fell. Even with them, cases are now rising. Their effectiveness is questionable at best - not just for those factors but because most people don't use them correctly in the first place

- Removal on all restrictions relating to outdoor gatherings

- Removal of capacity limits on public transport

- Decide what our approach is to foreign travel, Be clear, consistent and in-line with those other countries with a similar profile to ourselves.

- No more threats of lockdowns and damaging restrictions from "experts" who are only looking at a complex issue from a single narrow perspective. Listening to the news at 10 on the radio, Glynn was quoted as saying we need to consider everyone in a group as a potential threat :rolleyes: More fear-mongering.

- Immediate scrapping of any of the "emergency" enforcement legislation introduced in generally a knee-jerk fashion to this "crisis"

- Encouragement of those who actually ARE at risk of serious illness or death from CV-19 to maintain their precautions. Everyone else should maintain good hygiene, distance where possible/they feel appropriate (personally I don't generally get in someone's face in a supermarket anyway - even before CV-19!), and wear masks if they feel safer doing so. But THAT IS IT. We cannot continue to sacrifice the welfare of the many to protect the few (who can be better protected through specific targeted measures anyway). Those who are at risk need to take personal responsibility based on their own particular circumstances

- Accept that some people WILL die. That is genuinely sad, but inevitable. We cannot save everyone from CV-19, no more than we can save everyone from a road death or cancer or any of the other myriad ways people die in this country every week.

The damage done by this disease to the health of the nation has now been far outstripped by the damage it's caused to our national psyche, economy and social cohesion. These are issues that will (if not addressed soon) continue to be felt for many years after CV-19 dies off or is vaccinated against/cured.

Our responses were entirely correct in March/April when we weren't ready as a country and didn't have much information to go on. 6 months later that has completely been flipped on its head and we are in a (EXTREMELY FORTUNATE) position where the actual danger is nowhere near what we thought in those early stages.

It's long, LONG past time to get over our earlier mindsets and fears and start dealing with the reality of where we are and the very real problems we've both created for ourselves and the even bigger ones that lie ahead in the coming months.

So the TL;DR summary - open everything up.

hamburgham

I just heard on the 11pm news on Radio 1 that the Children’s Hospital in Tallaght is due to reopen tomorrow but won’t provide a number of services. Does that mean it’s been closed all this time??? And staff on full pay??

stephenjmcd

hamburgham wrote: »

I just heard on the 11pm news on Radio 1 that the Children’s Hospital in Tallaght is due to reopen tomorrow but won’t provide a number of services. Does that mean it’s been closed all this time??? And staff on full pay??

No, it was repurposed at the start of covid to not accept children, only adults, a quick way to free up bed capacity.

Children requiring hosptial were directed to Temple street and Crumlin

Luke o neil has had his lab paid for by mtv...on tv earlier grinning from ear to ear. He now does a podcast for them for this princley sum..celebs now creating egotistical profiles..rene de cartes...i think therfore i am stuff...**** he'll be on dancing with the stars next the ****.

Quantum Erasure

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Like flu and pneumonia deaths coincidentally

What do you think you're implying here, exactly?

Idbatterim

Where the hell has the minister of finance been hiding? Is he still on this planet?!

Allinall

Idbatterim wrote: »

Where the hell has the minister of finance been hiding? Is he still on this planet?!

He was all over the radio yesterday.

Were you not listening?

snowcat

PowerToWait wrote: »

That’s a pet theory.

Assetbacked wrote: »

Politicians afraid of being held accountable and stepping into the job mid-crisis when maybe the civil servant advisors had already made the decision to outsource the decision making solely to NPHET and they were too terrified to go against this system as they are only about themselves and not rocking the boat. Stephen Donnelly in particular has left his brain at the door to the ministry for health.

Varadkar today calling for Wet pubs to be opened, ffs he would not open Woodies when cases were on the decline and he was the slave to nphet. A joke.

FintanMcluskey

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

What do you think you're implying here, exactly?

I was responding to the poster that said suicide deaths have not increased this year and remain constant at 1 per day.

In a round about way I was suggesting respitory illness deaths have also remained constant this year.

Why have we chosen who's lives we save?

FintanMcluskey

snowcat wrote: »

Varadkar today calling for Wet pubs to be opened, ffs he would not open Woodies when cases were on the decline and he was the slave to nphet. A joke.

Im not his biggest fan but his arms were tied by the PC brigade at the time.

At least we have a medical professional calling them to heel now.

He's the most normal of those in government, between him having beers with his mates to challenging the rhetoric being pumped out.

Stephen Donnelly is a bad man, a weird dude

Idbatterim

Allinall wrote: »

He was all over the radio yesterday.

Were you not listening?

No stopped paying any attention to the fear mongering agenda driven crap that passes for irish journalism months ago... good to hear he is still alive!

Assetbacked

2 more cases in NZ today along with 5 yesterday. So what is the point of trying to crush the curve with OTT restrictions? There is none as it doesn't work. Everything needs to be open with a focus on health and good hygiene as well as education on having particular caution around older people.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425139/covid-19-two-new-cases-in-new-zealand-with-one-in-the-community

facehugger99

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Im not his biggest fan but his arms were tied by the PC brigade at the time.

At least we have a medical professional calling them to heel now.

He's the most normal of those in government, between him having beers with his mates to challenging the rhetoric being pumped out.

Stephen Donnelly is a bad man, a weird dude

He's emblematic of the current generation of politicians, a coward who will follow the winds of social-media. All surface and no depth.

He stands for nothing other than getting re-elected.

To be fair to Leo, half the country were absolutely hysterical back in March. I don't think he had much choice but to lockdown. And it was probably the correct thing to do at the time.

The problem is, the media kept the fear fest up. And NPHET are completely conservative. Even when the problem had more or less disappeared in May, people were still terrified and hysterical. I remember people been disgusted with me on this thread for saying we should get rid of the restrictions.

I remember Leo getting badly criticized for pushing some things forward in the reopening plan. So I can't really blame him for much. I'd certainly prefer him over MM and Donnelly.

_Kaiser_

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Im not his biggest fan but his arms were tied by the PC brigade at the time.

At least we have a medical professional calling them to heel now.

He's the most normal of those in government, between him having beers with his mates to challenging the rhetoric being pumped out.

Stephen Donnelly is a bad man, a weird dude

Varadkar is a populist, led by opinion polls, social media and the potential effect on his own profile - nothing more.

He was quite happy to hand things over to NPHET when he WAS in charge because that way he had an easy get-out for unpopular decisions.

Now he's behaving almost as if he's in opposition rather than an equal partner in the same Government by calling for changes in-line with the changing moods of the population.

Varadkar has a better image-manager and speech-writer.. nothing more. But clearly it works as many seem to actually buy it and forget that the reason we have the weak Government we have now is because of his and his team's performance in the last one!