Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

storker

facehugger99 wrote: »

He's emblematic of the current generation of politicians, a coward who will follow the winds of social-media. All surface and no depth.

He stands for nothing other than getting re-elected.

Very true although to be fair, that makes him a member of a not very exclusive club.

bush

If Leo was made taoiseach tomorrow again he wouldn't open the pubs

FintanMcluskey

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Varadkar is a populist, led by opinion polls, social media and the potential effect on his own profile - nothing more.

He was quite happy to hand things over to NPHET when he WAS in charge because that way he had an easy get-out for unpopular decisions.

Now he's behaving almost as if he's in opposition rather than an equal partner in the same Government by calling for changes in-line with the changing moods of the population.

Varadkar has a better image-manager and speech-writer.. nothing more. But clearly it works as many seem to actually buy it and forget that the reason we have the weak Government we have now is because of his and his team's performance in the last one!

I wasn't saying he wasn't any of the above.

He has however at least behaved like opposition, albeit populist.

I have heard no quotes from anyone other opposition challenging the rhetoric.

The mood changing? There is a significant amount of the population still petrified of sending children to school??

_Kaiser_

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I wasn't saying he wasn't any of the above.

He has however at least behaved like opposition, albeit populist.

I have heard no quotes from anyone other opposition challenging the rhetoric.

The mood changing? There is a significant amount of the population still petrified of sending children to school??

Agree with you that the actual opposition should be making more noise about this, but Leo and FG are an equal partner in this Government as well as him being the former and next Taoiseach. HE is just as responsible as MM for the current course of action. If he's not happy he should be taking that to MM, not grandstanding on Twitter for the "likes"

All he's actually doing is causing more disruption and cracks in the coalition he willingly signed up to. He may think it'll serve him well in the polls, but if he collapses the Government because of his self-serving antics and SF sweep in (very possibly) he won't be thanked by those he's trying to court, that's for sure.

Captain_Crash

Ive just been on twitter there and cant see where he was looking for wet pubs to be opened... where did he say it?

I do think he's a snake oil salesman who'll switch position quicker than the wind, especially if it gives him twitter likes.... but atleast hes speaking up against the ballsup being made by MM & Co.

Assetbacked

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0903/1162903-nphet-meeting-virus-spreads/

Are we finally starting to see a change in the winds to a more focused approach involving extra precaution for the vulnerable elderly? NPHET meeting today to discuss the rise in cases in the elderly.

The article highlights some key facts that have applied since the beginning but many people consuming the daily media articles which do not align with these facts, seem to forget;

- Until yesterday, there had been no deaths linked to the virus for two weeks.

- "we have begun to see a delayed increase among older and vulnerable age groups". Prof Nolan added: "Everyone must be cautious in their interactions with these groups".

- "Those aged under 45 have a one in 100 chance of being hospitalised with Covid-19, but if you are aged over 75, this rises to one in five."

- The median age of those in ICU with the disease is 61 and 90% have underlying conditions.

- The World Health Organization says data to date suggests 80% of Covid-19 infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical, requiring ventilation.

- Generally, you need to be 15 minutes or more in the vicinity of an infected person and within two metres of them, to be considered at-risk, or a close contact.

Captain_Crash

Assetbacked wrote: »

Are we finally starting to see a change in the winds to a more focused approach involving extra precaution for the vulnerable elderly? NPHET meeting today to discuss the rise in cases in the elderly.

Its funny because the headline is just more doom mongering. Many people only read headlines so will see that, not read the article and go waffling on Facebook about how the world is ending

_Kaiser_

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Ive just been on twitter there and cant see where he was looking for wet pubs to be opened... where did he say it?

I do think he's a snake oil salesman who'll switch position quicker than the wind, especially if it gives him twitter likes.... but atleast hes speaking up against the ballsup being made by MM & Co.

This one was tweeted by the Indo but links to an article:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/leo-varadkar-other-countries-living-with-covid-19-better-than-us-and-pubs-should-be-given-chance-to-reopen-39499427.html

OTHER countries are living with Covid-19 "better than us" and Ireland needs to rethink its strategy, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has told the Fine Gael parliamentary party.

Mr Varadkar told the private online meeting of TDs and Senators that he did not know why Ireland should be the only country in Europe with so-called wet pubs closed and said that publicans should be given chance to show they can safely reopen while adhering to rules.

The Business Minister warned that if Covid-19 restrictions are in place for too long "we may end up with permanent damage".

Sources at the meeting said Mr Varadkar made a strong case for the reopening of pubs. He said that in most countries they are open with some restrictions and the government is examining how this could be done here.

Mr Varadkar also told the meeting he wants to return to a situation where sports matches can have spectators, albeit with limits on their numbers.

That's great and all but it's clearly designed to play to the gallery as is the norm with him.

If he was serious about these things then he should be going direct to MM

On another note, has Eamon Ryan had anything to say on this or any other CV-19 related topic at all lately? I think he's forgotten he makes up one third of this Government's leadership.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I was responding to the poster that said suicide deaths have not increased this year and remain constant at 1 per day.

Except that's not what I said. I asked a question, I didn't make a statement.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

In a round about way I was suggesting respitory illness deaths have also remained constant this year.

Why have we chosen who's lives we save?

You've said this repeatedly throughout these threads. What's your logic for this view? To the best of my knowledge, the health service do their best to save ALL lives, no?

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

You've said this repeatedly throughout these threads. What's your logic for this view? To the best of my knowledge, the health service do their best to save ALL lives, no?

No they haven't.

Somewhere it was decided Covid was the only death worth preventing.

The cancellation of screenings and cancer treatment was a choice not a necessity.

Allinall

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No they haven't.

Somewhere it was decided Covid was the only death worth preventing.

The cancellation of screenings and cancer treatment was a choice not a necessity.

That's bull****.

FintanMcluskey

Allinall wrote: »

That's bull****.

They had a choice.

They made a choice.

That choice was prevent one group of citizen's die from one illness, while cancelling treatments to allow other citizens die from another common illness?

Allinall

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

They had a choice.

They made a choice.

That choice was prevent one group of citizen's die from one illness, while cancelling treatments to allow other citizens die from another common illness?

You said they decided "covid was the only death worth preventing".

Have they suddenly done away with speed limits on the roads?

Has the ambulance services been suspended and injured people left lying there?

Have all the A & E departments been closed down?

Your statement was, and still is bull****.

if this is true, are teachers or schools going to be fined as the publicans and citizens can be, for ignoring health advice?? slippery slope already.
So should the guards enforce this too??

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/newsireland/some-schools-not-enforcing-rules-despite-the-return-of-pupils/ar-BB18F6bU?li=BBr5KbJ

FintanMcluskey

Allinall wrote: »

You said they decided "covid was the only death worth preventing".

Have they suddenly done away with speed limits on the roads?

Has the ambulance services been suspended and injured people left lying there?

Have all the A & E departments been closed down?

Your statement was, and still is bull****.

Your having an argument that I didn't make.

You know that of course.

Did I mention A&E departments or speed limits???

No I didn't. It's a strawman argument you've decided to make.

I did however mention the cancellation of cancer screening, you've ignored that though, it's horrible to watch a loved one suffer with cancer, I can assure you that

dalyboy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Your having an argument that I didn't make.

You know that of course.

Did I mention A&E departments or speed limits???

No I didn't. It's a strawman argument you've decided to make.

I did however mention the cancellation of cancer screening, you've ignored that though, it's horrible to watch a loved one suffer with cancer, I can assure you that

Even more unbearable (and unforgivable) if there was a needless delay in diagnosis

Hulk Hands

snowcat wrote: »

Varadkar today calling for Wet pubs to be opened, ffs he would not open Woodies when cases were on the decline and he was the slave to nphet. A joke.

On this site and multiple places online ive now seen it said continuously:

A) Things are closed because Leo opened too slowly
Cases are growing because Leo opened too quickly

What exactly do people want? We had a progressive reopening with phases brought forward when cases were low, prior to FF getting involved.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Now he's behaving almost as if he's in opposition rather than an equal partner in the same Government by calling for changes in-line with the changing moods of the population.

Ive seen you mention this in a few threads. Isn't that exactly what he should be doing? He's an elected official mandated to provide for the needs and wants of the population. He doesn't have his head in the sand like Martin, and we're holding that against him?

He's advised his party of his and therefore their intention to reopen pubs etc, it's an action going forward.

Leo has annoyed me in the past and im certainly no fan, but people are allowing their dislike for him to colour opinions. When he does something they don't like, it's a disgrace/farce. When he takes a stance they agree with, it's spin/PR/photo op. Impossible to win

GPoint

The chair of the Oireachtas Special Committee on COVID-19 Response says people need to make health decisions for themselves.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/covid-19-committee-chairman-says-people-need-get-lives-1070578

"At the moment, the narrative is very much around restrictions."

"The reason that going back to school was such an event and such an achievement was because we are bottom of the OECD league in terms of investment in our schools."

"We can only improve our hospital capacity and invest in our healthcare system, invest in making our schools cleaner and safer if we have a functioning economy."

"And at the moment, we don't have a functioning economy"



Someone is talking sense at least.

I think its a fair enough argument to say that we have prioritized Covid WAY higher than everything else.

I mean we have literally crashed the economy for this. That in itself is something that will impact physical and mental health for a huge amount of people over the next few years.
We have barely done any cancer screening so far this year. Huge backlogs to catch up on. It is not hard to assume that there will be deaths as a result of not detecting cancer early.
There was also a lot of other medical treatments and routine visits cancelled. Things are very often picked up in these kind of visits that can save lives.

Ultimately it was a choice to do all of these things and to continue it to this very day.

GPoint

GPoint wrote: »

The chair of the Oireachtas Special Committee on COVID-19 Response says people need to make health decisions for themselves.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/covid-19-committee-chairman-says-people-need-get-lives-1070578

"At the moment, the narrative is very much around restrictions."

"The reason that going back to school was such an event and such an achievement was because we are bottom of the OECD league in terms of investment in our schools."

"We can only improve our hospital capacity and invest in our healthcare system, invest in making our schools cleaner and safer if we have a functioning economy."

"And at the moment, we don't have a functioning economy"



Someone is talking sense at least.

I do believe that eventually we will have to move away from restrictions and pass the responsibility to individuals.

We all know the symptoms. We all know the risks.

Allinall

Deleted User wrote: »

I think its a fair enough argument to say that we have prioritized Covid WAY higher than everything else.

I mean we have literally crashed the economy for this. That in itself is something that will impact physical and mental health for a huge amount of people over the next few years.
We have barely done any cancer screening so far this year. Huge backlogs to catch up on. It is not hard to assume that there will be deaths as a result of not detecting cancer early.
There was also a lot of other medical treatments and routine visits cancelled. Things are very often picked up in these kind of visits that can save lives.

Ultimately it was a choice to do all of these things and to continue it to this very day.

That's absolutely fair enough.

the other poster claimed

"Somewhere it was decided Covid was the only death worth preventing."

This is patently untrue, and needs to be called out for the bull**** that it is.

FintanMcluskey

Allinall wrote: »

That's absolutely fair enough.

the other poster claimed

"Somewhere it was decided Covid was the only death worth preventing."

This is patently untrue, and needs to be called out for the bull**** that it is.

They did decide only Covid was worth preventing.

Of they hadn't the cancer screenings would never have ceased.

And they would spend as much preventing suicide deaths as they threw at Covid

Allinall

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

They did decide only Covid was worth preventing.

Of they hadn't the cancer screenings would never have ceased.

And they would spend as much preventing suicide deaths as they threw at Covid

Are you now claiming cancer and suicide are the only causes of deaths, other than Covid?

FintanMcluskey

Allinall wrote: »

Are you now claiming cancer and suicide are the only causes of deaths, other than Covid?

Covid isnt a cause death, hasn't been for a while thank god.

Early on it was decided to prevent all Covid deaths.

At the cost of the citizens who will succumb to what would have been treatable cancers, if detected on time

on TV3 this morning they were talking about mental health and covid-19.
Nowhere once did they mention the spate of suicides in the last few weeks.
The media dance around like histrionic kids at birthday party and ignore all the actual stats and numbers of everything else around them.
I'm half convinced Irish media is promoting and not preventing the spread at times..they're Covids biggest Fan..

The celebrity doctors, politicians, news readers etc, will all still keep their jobs, Jesus it couldn't be a better time for them in the spin game. But middle classes and the likes will be left in the cold come the midnight hour!

we'll be hearing the old "could I have done things differently speech" ad nauseum soon,

Assetbacked

Allinall wrote: »

You said they decided "covid was the only death worth preventing".

Have they suddenly done away with speed limits on the roads?

Has the ambulance services been suspended and injured people left lying there?

Have all the A & E departments been closed down?

Your statement was, and still is bull****.

You keep saying "your statement is BS" without giving an actual reason so you are the one responding with BS.

Ambulances deal with emergencies but cancer screening aren't emergencies and have been cancelled in order to facilitate the covid response.

Allinall

Assetbacked wrote: »

You keep saying "your statement is BS" without giving an actual reason so you are the one responding with BS.

Ambulances deal with emergencies but cancer screening aren't emergencies and have been cancelled in order to facilitate the covid response.

Let me spell it out.

Poster claimed

"Somewhere it was decided Covid was the only death worth preventing".

This is patently untrue, as there are systems in place to prevent a myriad of deaths, not related to Covid.

mikekerry

Apparently bord failte have issued guidelines to restaurants now to get them
to record the meals bought by customers over the next 28 days.
WTF!!!!
they have lost the plot.

stephenjmcd

mikekerry wrote: »

Apparently bord failte have issued guidelines to restaurants now to get them
to record the meals bought by customers over the next 28 days.
WTF!!!!
they have lost the plot.

its in the legislation that government are proposing at the moment.

Its really not going to be taken seriously. They'll write like pizza, chicken wings or whatever beside the name

SNNUS

mikekerry wrote: »

Apparently bord failte have issued guidelines to restaurants now to get them
to record the meals bought by customers over the next 28 days.
WTF!!!!
they have lost the plot.

Ireland really is a stupid country...