Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

PTH2009 · 01-09-2020 10:07PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Leo is not following the script here

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1300882140125593606

Then push for the reopening to go further leo

Diabhalta · 01-09-2020 10:09PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

Is it still bright outside at this time in the Czech Republic?

no, this was few hours ago...

anyway, what now? I'm returning next week.. should I book another flight in November, just for few days? Seems like it's the only option. I went swimming yesterday, used a Finnish sauna they had there, it was great. Can't use sauna in Cork, because they are idiots and won't let people live. Flying abroad really seems to be the only solution to the problem right now. €100 flights, accomodation, pocket money so three four days will be €300 euro approximately. Is it worth it? Definitely.

Absurd isn't it? Going abroad, away from this crazy situation that is created by the government (not the virus). For pints, to use the sauna... to breathe...

Dionaibh · 01-09-2020 10:17PM

Diabhalta wrote: »

no, this was few hours ago...

anyway, what now? I'm returning next week.. should I book another flight in November, just for few days? Seems like it's the only option. I went swimming yesterday, used a Finnish sauna they had there, it was great. Can't use sauna in Cork, because they are idiots and won't let people live. Flying abroad really seems to be the only solution to the problem right now. €100 flights, accomodation, pocket money so three four days will be €300 euro approximately. Is it worth it? Definitely.

Absurd isn't it? Going abroad, away from this crazy situation that is created by the government (not the virus). For pints, to use the sauna... to breathe...

Created by the government, and prolonged by the people who go along with the idiotic rules. A meek surrender of liberty.

JeffKenna · 01-09-2020 10:18PM

Christ, I'd love a few beers now.

01-09-2020 10:29PM

Penfailed wrote: »

What percentage would you put it at?

What was the unemployment rate before Covid? I think it was at around 5%. If it's at 17% now, 17 minus 5 is 12%...so you could say that the country is 88% open...no?

To be honest, I couldn’t put a figure on it but I think it’s a lot worse than people are making out.

It’s also important to define “open”. Technically the airport is open, but I hear it’s only operating at about 10% of what it normally would. Almost all business travel and tourism has stopped.

Apparently 200000 are still getting PUP payments.

Pubs are either closed or open as restaurants. Restaurants have curfews. We have no nightlife after 11:30pm. That’s destroys the entertainment industry.

Lots of gyms/pools are still fully closed or have big restrictions in place.

Very few weddings are going ahead so that hugely impacts all the suppliers, photographers, bands etc that would cover them.

Even lots of office staff are now taking pay cuts or have pay freezes in place. Big companies are making noises that jobs will be cut. BOI is an example.

I was in Dublin City Centre myself this morning and it was very quiet. Very odd.

But technically we could open pubs and claim that nothing is fully closed. And yet nothing is operating even remotely close to what it should be.

Gael23 · 02-09-2020 05:12AM

When your in a pub getting food, is there a max group size allowed?

Penfailed · 02-09-2020 06:12AM

Gael23 wrote: »

When your in a pub getting food, is there a max group size allowed?

I 'think' it's a maximum of six per table.

Assetbacked · 02-09-2020 07:16AM

Here we go, the IT with two opinion pieces against the government's approach on its homepage today. Our momentum is building.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/coronavirus-epidemiology-has-been-a-political-football-from-the-get-go-1.4344085?mode=amp

"Coronavirus: Epidemiology has been a political football from the get-go;
Ireland appears to be in a lose-lose scenario compared with Sweden. In June, it was the opposite"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/pessimism-around-covid-19-infection-and-school-return-unfounded-1.4344145?mode=amp

"Pessimism around Covid-19 infection and school return unfounded; Children least-affected by Covid-19 and rapid identification of illness can minimise threat"

patnor1011 · 02-09-2020 07:18AM

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest, I couldn’t put a figure on it but I think it’s a lot worse than people are making out.

It’s also important to define “open”. Technically the airport is open, but I hear it’s only operating at about 10% of what it normally would. Almost all business travel and tourism has stopped.

Apparently 200000 are still getting PUP payments.

Pubs are either closed or open as restaurants. Restaurants have curfews. We have no nightlife after 11:30pm. That’s destroys the entertainment industry.

Lots of gyms/pools are still fully closed or have big restrictions in place.

Very few weddings are going ahead so that hugely impacts all the suppliers, photographers, bands etc that would cover them.

Even lots of office staff are now taking pay cuts or have pay freezes in place. Big companies are making noises that jobs will be cut. BOI is an example.

I was in Dublin City Centre myself this morning and it was very quiet. Very odd.

But technically we could open pubs and claim that nothing is fully closed. And yet nothing is operating even remotely close to what it should be.

We live in imaginary economy right now. We imagine that not much happened and sure we will open soon so everything will be as it was before...
Reality is that this mirage is working for the time being propped by freshly minted dollars and euros but that will only work for a while.
If you do not believe just read few history books - it happened few times and it always end up badly. For the majority of the people anyway.

drunkmonkey · 02-09-2020 08:03AM

Just listening to the radio, seemingly the Guards have got a load of spit guards to put on people they arrest now...ok I know you shouldn't be getting yourself arrested but where the hell are we going with all this...

1588089127434.jpg--latest__garda__used_controversial__spit_guards__15_times_on_suspects_while_enforcing_covid_19_regulations_.jpg?1588089127000

1588089127434.jpg--latest__garda__used_controversial__spit_guards__15_times_on_suspects_while_enforcing_covid_19_regulations_.jpg?1588089127000

facehugger99 · 02-09-2020 08:06AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

We live in imaginary economy right now. We imagine that not much happened and sure we will open soon so everything will be as it was before...
Reality is that this mirage is working for the time being propped by freshly minted dollars and euros but that will only work for a while.
If you do not believe just read few history books - it happened few times and it always end up badly. For the majority of the people anyway.

100% correct - the reality has not yet hit but it's in the post and it's coming fast.

This is the calm before the storm, the current situation is unsustainable. The constant stream of negativity and hysteria pumped out by Government and media will be obstacles to any kind of return to normality in the medium term. Inflation is going to devalue people's salaries, pensions and savings over the next number of years.

Back in April I stared moving all of my cash savings into commodities, cryptos and recession-proof stocks - anyone who can should be doing the same.

Jim Gazebo · 02-09-2020 08:45AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Back in April I stared moving all of my cash savings into commodities, cryptos and recession-proof stocks - anyone who can should be doing the same.

Is this not also a touch risky? What stocks/cryptos/commodities?

gmisk · 02-09-2020 08:49AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Just listening to the radio, seemingly the Guards have got a load of spit guards to put on people they arrest now...ok I know you shouldn't be getting yourself arrested but where the hell are we going with all this...

Good, spitting on someone is vile.
They seem to be used a fair bit in the UK.

The article that the image is from in mid April (it's isn't new) stated there were 31 incidents of people coughing and spitting at gardai in approx 17 days, the spit guards clearly need to be available, it's not as if they are going to start using them wiley niley.

02-09-2020 09:05AM

I read on the other thread that breast check is not back until October...

How can we actually continue to justify this! Crashing the economy is one thing. Not bothering to screen for an actual killer disease for half a year is unforgivable.

Fewer than 100,000 people were checked under the State’s three cancer screening programmes in the first half of the year due to Covid-19 restrictions, new figures reveal.

This compares to 500,000 people screened in all of 2019, and suggests that significantly fewer people will be screened for bowel, cervical and breast cancer this year.

facehugger99 · 02-09-2020 09:22AM

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Is this not also a touch risky? What stocks/cryptos/commodities?

Every investment carries risk but there is no political appetite for living within our means - that concept has been termed 'austerity' and is a dirty word.

Instead we will borrow and the ECB and other central banks will print billions to facilitate this - currencies will devalue, debt will be passed onto future generations where it will remain a drag on their productivity for decades to come - sorry kids but we couldn't be arsed dealing with it, you figure it out.

Multipass · 02-09-2020 09:37AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I read on the other thread that breast check is not back until October...

How can we actually continue to justify this! Crashing the economy is one thing. Not bothering to screen for an actual killer disease for half a year is unforgivable.

Fewer than 100,000 people were checked under the State’s three cancer screening programmes in the first half of the year due to Covid-19 restrictions, new figures reveal.

This compares to 500,000 people screened in all of 2019, and suggests that significantly fewer people will be screened for bowel, cervical and breast cancer this year.

The hypocrisy of this is absolutely disgusting - the death toll from this, and from all the cuts to health which are inevitable, is going to be huge. But largely invisible to all those hiding at home, because work is too ‘dangerous’. I’m in such despair at this stage.

I wonder if bloody NPHET will help those diagnosed with cancers to get prompt treatment.

facehugger99 · 02-09-2020 09:42AM

Multipass wrote: »

The hypocrisy of this is absolutely disgusting - the death toll from this, and from all the cuts to health which are inevitable, is going to be huge. But largely invisible to all those hiding at home, because work is too ‘dangerous’. I’m in such despair at this stage.

Thankfully only Covid deaths count.

02-09-2020 09:52AM

Multipass wrote: »

The hypocrisy of this is absolutely disgusting - the death toll from this, and from all the cuts to health which are inevitable, is going to be huge. But largely invisible to all those hiding at home, because work is too ‘dangerous’. I’m in such despair at this stage.

There was an article over the last few days about an alarming number of suicides in Galway. I was quite shocked to see a lot of comments such as "You can't prove they are because of lockdown/restrictions/Covid".

We've had many businesses and even some big companies shut down or announce huge job losses. The response has largely been "Well, they were obviously in big trouble anyways"

There was an article yesterday about pub owners defaulting on their mortgages. And the response was largely "They might have defaulted regardless of Covid"

There is a poster on the main thread at the moment trying to downplay the importance of Cancer screenings.

We have posters in here that think that a recession is just "A few quid extra in taxes"...

Unfortunately, I doubt anyone will ever hold their hand up and admit that the solution was far worse than the actual perceived problem.

Multipass · 02-09-2020 09:58AM

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1162429/
NPHET warning that improper use of masks may increase risk of Covid.

This article makes me laugh, they’re really twisting themselves in knots now.
So now pulling the mask down is ‘dangerous’.
Even though it states later that you’re only really at risk if you’re close to someone for 15 minutes - so you didn’t really need that mask to walk through the shopping centre.
Goes on to give the shocking Irish hospitalisation rates.... in single digits, and the fact that 95% of people who catch this aren’t even hospitalised.
And then the cherry on the cake - that emergency departments are starting to get crowded. No mention of what people are attending for, but it’s pretty obvious when they shut down the country’s health system for 7 months that there’s going to be a backlog of much more serious health problems that dont have a catchy name.

02-09-2020 10:03AM

While I miss friends and family in Ireland right now the decision to follow my partner to Sweden when he moved there earlier this year really has been fantastic seeing how Ireland (both society and government) is handling Covid-19. My mental health is great.

There are going to be long term societal issues in Ireland from this, it's obvious to me after seeing how it is all being handled. Got an absolute chock when I returned to Ireland early August to visit friends and family (took a test two days before departing Stockholm and self isolated for two weeks in Ireland of course). People are **** scared, media and government is just injecting fear and misery. Dublin is boarded up, people change side of the road when you walk by, my American friends living in Ireland are afraid to even go out for dinner because people think they are tourists. What a dystopia my lovely Ireland has become (really really hope temporarily).

In Sweden Schools and daycare are like before, no masks/shields/plexiglass, no pods, no inforced distance, no half days/part time in school, kids can be kids. There were no media panic or drama when schools opened again. Just some mention of the risks buts also the rewards. Most parents and teachers feel safe meaning that the kids are not worried or scared either.

Pubs and restaurants are open (they never closed) with few restrictions (need to be an arm lenght between tables). No masks anywhere (airports and flights though due to policy decisions by airlines and the main airport operator), meeting up with friends or family inside or outside is as normal, people are not afraid of eachother, singles are dating like before, weddings are going ahead, parents aren't instilling fear in their kids, old people are out and enjoying themselves/seeing friends and family (just with a bit of caution, my grandmother in-law for example goes to her favourite restaurant weekly and said that she rather die now at 89 living life to her fullest - than in 2 years after being locked up and scared until then) and no-one is giving out if kids from different households are playing together or if you have 30 people over for a BBQ or house party. However, if you attend a large house party you just don't visit grandma for a week or two just to be on the safe side (common sense in these times!). If you're feeling a bit sick you stay home and go and get a test (no referral needed, no cost and no waiting, result the next day).

There are no travel restrictions and no quarantine on arrival. You go wherever you want if you feel that you need or want it. Most Swedish people stayed in Sweden though this summer seeing records in the sale of boats, caravans, tenets, kayaks, fishing equipment etc.

Last week the Swedish version of the CMO announced that they recommend that the limit on organised public gatherings is increased from 50 to 500 (this never affected private gatherings like weddings or parties).

Sweden's largest bank Nordea now estimates that the Swedish economy will have fully recovered by the start of next summer and no more stimulus packages are necessary. I can understand why, people are back living their lives again, spending money and enjoying themselves and the confidence in the society is back.

The only thing that has changed is that people don't shake hands anymore and that it is socially unacceptable now to go to work or school if sick. Like it should be!

The current common sense recommendations clearly have effect while they also can be kept for years if necessary without harm to the society or the economy. Like they were intended to!

(Just use Google translate to read the economic verdict from Nordea) https://www.expressen.se/dinapengar/nordea-krisen-inte-lika-djup-som-befarat/

Multipass · 02-09-2020 10:11AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There was an article over the last few days about an alarming number of suicides in Galway. I was quite shocked to see a lot of comments such as "You can't prove they are because of lockdown/restrictions/Covid".

We've had many businesses and even some big companies shut down or announce huge job losses. The response has largely been "Well, they were obviously in big trouble anyways"

There was an article yesterday about pub owners defaulting on their mortgages. And the response was largely "They might have defaulted regardless of Covid"

There is a poster on the main thread at the moment trying to downplay the importance of Cancer screenings.

We have posters in here that think that a recession is just "A few quid extra in taxes"...

Unfortunately, I doubt anyone will ever hold their hand up and admit that the solution was far worse than the actual perceived problem.

On the contrary, those deaths will be added in to the yearly death rate to show how many excess deaths we had due to ..... covid.

Glenomra · 02-09-2020 10:11AM

321123 wrote: »

While I miss friends and family in Ireland right now the decision to follow my partner to Sweden when he moved there earlier this year really has been fantastic seeing how Ireland (both society and government) is handling Covid-19. My mental health is great.

There are going to be long term societal issues in Ireland from this, it's obvious to me after seeing how it is all being handled. Got an absolute chock when I returned to Ireland early August to visit friends and family (took a test two days before departing Stockholm and self isolated for two weeks in Ireland of course). People are **** scared, media and government is just injecting fear and misery. Dublin is boarded up, people change side of the road when you walk by, my American friends living in Ireland are afraid to even go out for dinner because people think they are tourists. What a dystopia my lovely Ireland has become (really really hope temporarily).

In Sweden Schools and daycare are like before, no masks/shields/plexiglass, no pods, no inforced distance, no half days/part time in school, kids can be kids. There were no media panic or drama when schools opened again. Just some mention of the risks buts also the rewards. Most parents and teachers feel safe meaning that the kids are not worried or scared either.

Pubs and restaurants are open (they never closed) with few restrictions (need to be an arm lenght between tables). No masks anywhere (airports and flights though due to policy decisions by airlines and the main airport operator), meeting up with friends or family inside or outside is as normal, people are not afraid of eachother, singles are dating like before, weddings are going ahead, parents aren't instilling fear in their kids, old people are out and enjoying themselves/seeing friends and family (just with a bit of caution, my grandmother in-law for example goes to her favourite restaurant weekly and said that she rather die now at 89 living life to her fullest - than in 2 years after being locked up and scared until then) and no-one is giving out if kids from different households are playing together or if you have 30 people over for a BBQ or house party. However, if you attend a large house party you just don't visit grandma for a week or two just to be on the safe side (common sense in these times!). If you're feeling a bit sick you stay home and go and get a test (no referral needed, no cost and no waiting, result the next day).

There are no travel restrictions and no quarantine on arrival. You go wherever you want if you feel that you need or want it. Most Swedish people stayed in Sweden though this summer seeing records in the sale of boats, caravans, tenets, kayaks, fishing equipment etc.

Last week the Swedish version of the CMO announced that they recommend that the limit on organised public gatherings is increased from 50 to 500 (this never affected private gatherings like weddings or parties).

Sweden's largest bank Nordea now estimates that the Swedish economy will have fully recovered by the start of next summer and no more stimulus packages are necessary. I can understand why, people are back living their lives again, spending money and enjoying themselves and the confidence in the society is back.

The only thing that has changed is that people don't shake hands anymore and that it is socially unacceptable now to go to work or school if sick. Like it should be!

The current common sense recommendations clearly have effect while they also can be kept for years if necessary without harm to the society or the economy. Like they were intended to!

(Just use Google translate to read the economic verdict from Nordea) https://www.expressen.se/dinapengar/nordea-krisen-inte-lika-djup-som-befarat/

Brilliant news! please share on other forums. Thanks. meanwhile, most Irish people remain hysterical over the virus.

Assetbacked · 02-09-2020 10:24AM

Multipass wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1162429/
NPHET warning that improper use of masks may increase risk of Covid.

This article makes me laugh, they’re really twisting themselves in knots now.
So now pulling the mask down is ‘dangerous’.
Even though it states later that you’re only really at risk if you’re close to someone for 15 minutes - so you didn’t really need that mask to walk through the shopping centre.
Goes on to give the shocking Irish hospitalisation rates.... in single digits, and the fact that 95% of people who catch this aren’t even hospitalised.
And then the cherry on the cake - that emergency departments are starting to get crowded. No mention of what people are attending for, but it’s pretty obvious when they shut down the country’s health system for 7 months that there’s going to be a backlog of much more serious health problems that dont have a catchy name.

This is what it has been all along. Masks are pure optics and nothing more. People who have recently decided that masks are essential when just going into the shop for a couple minutes have displayed total ignorance and submissiveness to a non-science based, hypocritical government narrative. It seems to have taken hold of the majority of people as well which is dismaying.

Away from the keyboard warriors on the internet however, most people who you talk to are completely over the BS from the government which is reassuring, they're just waiting for the all clear to go back to the same behaviour as before. September is the month where the majority view will finally be that the crisis has ended, with schools and office workers returning from summer holidays, sports getting crowds again, pubs being opened and travel returning. Of course, all will have token guidance on social distancing, masks etc. but after a few more weeks when the deaths and hospitalisations do not climb despite essentially all of society being back to normal, the guidance will lose its fear factor, masks will be worn by those wanting to protect themselves, hand sanitiser used by those fearful about themselves, the vaccine hyped up so much won't be as motivating for people etc. We have stayed the course in this thread and I see nothing inconsistent in our views for months now, the data is still supporting us; we're getting there!

Penfailed · 02-09-2020 10:55AM

Glenomra wrote: »

most Irish people remain hysterical over the virus.

Really? I'm not seeing it anywhere.

MadYaker · 02-09-2020 11:01AM

Penfailed wrote: »

Really? I'm not seeing it anywhere.

The only hysteria I read is people whinging in this thread.

manniot2 · 02-09-2020 11:05AM

321123 wrote: »

While I miss friends and family in Ireland right now the decision to follow my partner to Sweden when he moved there earlier this year really has been fantastic seeing how Ireland (both society and government) is handling Covid-19. My mental health is great.

There are going to be long term societal issues in Ireland from this, it's obvious to me after seeing how it is all being handled. Got an absolute chock when I returned to Ireland early August to visit friends and family (took a test two days before departing Stockholm and self isolated for two weeks in Ireland of course). People are **** scared, media and government is just injecting fear and misery. Dublin is boarded up, people change side of the road when you walk by, my American friends living in Ireland are afraid to even go out for dinner because people think they are tourists. What a dystopia my lovely Ireland has become (really really hope temporarily).

In Sweden Schools and daycare are like before, no masks/shields/plexiglass, no pods, no inforced distance, no half days/part time in school, kids can be kids. There were no media panic or drama when schools opened again. Just some mention of the risks buts also the rewards. Most parents and teachers feel safe meaning that the kids are not worried or scared either.

Pubs and restaurants are open (they never closed) with few restrictions (need to be an arm lenght between tables). No masks anywhere (airports and flights though due to policy decisions by airlines and the main airport operator), meeting up with friends or family inside or outside is as normal, people are not afraid of eachother, singles are dating like before, weddings are going ahead, parents aren't instilling fear in their kids, old people are out and enjoying themselves/seeing friends and family (just with a bit of caution, my grandmother in-law for example goes to her favourite restaurant weekly and said that she rather die now at 89 living life to her fullest - than in 2 years after being locked up and scared until then) and no-one is giving out if kids from different households are playing together or if you have 30 people over for a BBQ or house party. However, if you attend a large house party you just don't visit grandma for a week or two just to be on the safe side (common sense in these times!). If you're feeling a bit sick you stay home and go and get a test (no referral needed, no cost and no waiting, result the next day).

There are no travel restrictions and no quarantine on arrival. You go wherever you want if you feel that you need or want it. Most Swedish people stayed in Sweden though this summer seeing records in the sale of boats, caravans, tenets, kayaks, fishing equipment etc.

Last week the Swedish version of the CMO announced that they recommend that the limit on organised public gatherings is increased from 50 to 500 (this never affected private gatherings like weddings or parties).

Sweden's largest bank Nordea now estimates that the Swedish economy will have fully recovered by the start of next summer and no more stimulus packages are necessary. I can understand why, people are back living their lives again, spending money and enjoying themselves and the confidence in the society is back.

The only thing that has changed is that people don't shake hands anymore and that it is socially unacceptable now to go to work or school if sick. Like it should be!

The current common sense recommendations clearly have effect while they also can be kept for years if necessary without harm to the society or the economy. Like they were intended to!

(Just use Google translate to read the economic verdict from Nordea) https://www.expressen.se/dinapengar/nordea-krisen-inte-lika-djup-som-befarat/

this has depressed me so much. Ireland is a lost cause at this stage.

MadYaker · 02-09-2020 11:18AM

Why do people take such simplistic views of absolutely everything? There are a few reasons why Ireland (and most of the world) didn’t follow Sweden. It’s an apples and oranges comparison just like comparing any other two countries. If you want idea of why they were able to take a different approach look at their hospital capacities compared to ours. That’s just one factor out of many that were considered when governments were coming up with their responses to this. Hong Kong and Taiwan never had lockdowns either. Again, a totally different situation in those countries resulted in a completely different response to the same problem. Some countries were simply better prepared than others either through actual plans for pandemics or by chance due to the way their societies and health systems are structured, population density, excess hospital capacity, age demographics, levels of underlying conditions etc.

_Kaiser_ · 02-09-2020 11:18AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Leo is not following the script here

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1300882140125593606

Leo (as usual) has waited to see what way the wind of public opinion is blowing, and now that more people are questioning the continued approach of restrictions and threats of renewed lockdowns, he's getting on the bandwagon.

Naos · 02-09-2020 11:23AM

Diabhalta wrote: »

this beer is 95 cents...

they just keep bringing them no questions.

Waitress has no face mask, she's not keeping safe distance. Should I be worried??? Am I too relaxed? What if covid? Is she too relaxed? Is Ireland hysterical? So many questions... Am I happy living normal life for a while? I know the answer: yes.

95 cents because you're missing half the beer :pac:

02-09-2020 11:31AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Why do people take such simplistic views of absolutely everything? There are a few reasons why Ireland (and most of the world) didn’t follow Sweden. It’s an apples and oranges comparison just like comparing any other two countries. If you want idea of why they were able to take a different approach look at their hospital capacities compared to ours. That’s just one factor out of many that were considered when governments were coming up with their responses to this. Hong Kong and Taiwan never had lockdowns either. Again, a totally different situation in those countries resulted in a completely different response to the same problem. Some countries were simply better prepared than others either through actual plans for pandemics or by chance due to the way their societies and health systems are structured, population density, excess hospital capacity, age demographics, levels of underlying conditions etc.

Sweden's ICU capacity is much the same as ours.

Ireland's hospitals were never overwhelmed. Not even when we had 100s in hospital.

We've had several posters on this very thread posting from other European countries about how much more relaxed and sensible the approach is compared to Ireland.

Back when we were announcing 5 - 10 cases a day, we still didn't open up.

I imagine we will remain the most conservative country in Europe until a vaccine arrives or our economy forces us into action.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings