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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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Comments

  • #4382
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    combat14 wrote: »
    the slippery slope already started:

    Coronavirus Ireland: Parents can send children to school if they are sneezing or have a runny nose, government advises

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/coronavirus-ireland-parents-can-send-children-to-school-if-they-are-sneezing-or-have-a-runny-nose-government-advises-39474011.html

    Are they trying to repeat the mistakes of the UK with this lying to the public and having such inconsistent policies?


  • #4383
    Sunday Sunday
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭Sunday Sunday


    combat14 wrote: »
    the slippery slope already started:

    Coronavirus Ireland: Parents can send children to school if they are sneezing or have a runny nose, government advises

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/coronavirus-ireland-parents-can-send-children-to-school-if-they-are-sneezing-or-have-a-runny-nose-government-advises-39474011.html

    Some kids have permanently snotty noses, especially the little ones. It's good that they've clarified this so that people know.


  • #4384
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    The_Brood wrote: »
    Martin literally indicated that the reason why schools must reopen, as the quote in what he linked to reads, "Because I miss my friends want to see how they're doing." Here is the tweet: https://twitter.com/MichealMartinTD/status/1297888355095650306

    So jobs, careers, family relations, mental health, other things we've all had to sacrifice on the bonfire of public health......but schools must re-open because kids "miss their friends" ?

    Is Martin just a giant troll or what is going on here? What kind of joke is being played on the public?

    Playing the emotions of parents and teachers like a ****ing pampers ad.


  • #4385
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 133 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The_Brood wrote: »
    Martin literally indicated that the reason why schools must reopen, as the quote in what he linked to reads, "Because I miss my friends want to see how they're doing." Here is the tweet: https://twitter.com/MichealMartinTD/status/1297888355095650306

    So jobs, careers, family relations, mental health, other things we've all had to sacrifice on the bonfire of public health......but schools must re-open because kids "miss their friends" ?

    Is Martin just a giant troll or what is going on here? What kind of joke is being played on the public?

    He's been learning from Leo with his propaganda unit.


  • #4386
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    Essentially we're just rolling back the "good" old years in the midst of a pandemic. The wolf in sheep's clothing is back in the field despite most of us seeing them for exactly what they are. This FF government led by Mr fcukin happy hands, while a bare minority, seems hell bent on proving they can still be every bit as sleazy as the glorious Bertie and Charlie led cabinets we obviously miss. Obfuscate, deflect and if all else fails just plain lie.


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  • #4387
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    smellyoldboot wrote: »
    Essentially we're just rolling back the "good" old years in the midst of a pandemic. The wolf in sheep's clothing is back in the field despite most of us seeing them for exactly what they are. This FF government led by Mr fcukin happy hands, while a bare minority, seems hell bent on proving they can still be every bit as sleazy as the glorious Bertie and Charlie led cabinets we obviously miss. Obfuscate, deflect and if all else fails just plain lie.

    I am quite disgusted by the change of leadership style we are seeing.

    Treating the public like idiots only leads to more discontent.

    Quite typical of an eejit like MM to adopt the we have to get back to normal fallacy at all costs.


  • #4388
    am_zarathustra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    combat14 wrote: »
    the slippery slope already started:

    Coronavirus Ireland: Parents can send children to school if they are sneezing or have a runny nose, government advises

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/coronavirus-ireland-parents-can-send-children-to-school-if-they-are-sneezing-or-have-a-runny-nose-government-advises-39474011.html

    If a child has either either if these symptoms it's extremely unlikely the cause is coronavirus. It would make sense to keep kids at home with sneezing or a runny nose. There's some good studies on symptoms, pretty consistently its

    Fever
    Dry cough
    Loss of taste or smell
    Sore throat

    In severe cases you get muscle pain etc too


  • #4389
    am_zarathustra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    Excerpt here, it's actually pretty clear and does lend weight to the temptreture checking argument.

    "Of the 24,410 cases, the study found:

    78 percent had a fever. Although this tended to vary across countries: with 72 percent of fever reported by patients in Singapore and 32 percent in Korea.

    57 percent reported a cough. Again, this varied across countries, with 76 percent of patients reporting a cough in the Netherlands compared to 18 percent in Korea.

    31 percent said they had suffered fatigue.

    25 percent lost the ability to smell.

    23 percent reported difficulty breathing"

    I've seen a few other studies and the numbers don't vary much and the most important symptoms remain the same


  • #4390
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,525 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    am_zarathustra wrote: »
    If a child has either either if these symptoms it's extremely unlikely the cause is coronavirus.

    Oh no, I would not say that, I would definitely say the advice that GP today gave was reckless in the extreme, even pre-covid.

    While there is more common symptoms, rhinorrhea (runny nose) is definitely a significant symptom for children with Covid.
    Results from this systematic review echo findings describing milder symptoms in pediatric cases of SARS-CoV-2 infection [17,21]. For instance, the most common clinical manifestations we found were fever (59·1%), cough (55·9%), rhinorrhea (20·0%) and myalgia/fatigue (18·7%).

    COVID-19 in 7780 pediatric patients: A systematic review

    We learn all this before "Wave 3". Trust me.


  • #4391
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Any word from Norma at all yet?

    Disgraceful really given the circumstances now. MM should kick her out on to the plinth. Feck sake this is ridiculous. We are here, teachers are here, students are here and most of us are bricking it.

    But where is Norma?


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  • #4392
    Sunday Sunday
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭Sunday Sunday


    Boggles wrote: »
    We learn all this before "Wave 3". Trust me.

    We're not even through the first wave yet :o


  • #4393
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    combat14 wrote: »
    the slippery slope already started:

    Coronavirus Ireland: Parents can send children to school if they are sneezing or have a runny nose, government advises

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/coronavirus-ireland-parents-can-send-children-to-school-if-they-are-sneezing-or-have-a-runny-nose-government-advises-39474011.html

    Oh ffs, runny noses and sneezing are bloody symptoms, in fact that's the main problem with covid-19, it has many symptoms we would associate with normal illnesses, this is just their way to keep schools open when people and kids are sick waiting for positive results. This is a ****ing travesty at this stage, i am really considering taking a career break or changing careers altogether and I love my job


  • #4394
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,525 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Sunday Sunday wrote: »
    We're not even through the first wave yet :o

    We are.

    Covid is not the waves.

    It's the sea.

    ;)


  • #4395
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    Oh ffs, runny noses and sneezing are bloody symptoms, in fact that's the main problem with covid-19, it has many symptoms we would associate with normal illnesses, this is just their way to keep schools open when people and kids are sick waiting for positive results. This is a ****ing travesty at this stage, i am really considering taking a career break or changing careers altogether and I love my job

    The GPs point was valid . A runny nose in isolation with no other symptoms is far more likely not to be Covid . It is a symptom of Covid but very rarely in isolation
    We all know kids whose nose drips on a permanent basis . A parent will know that their childs nose had dripped since last Christmas and her point is that its normal for that child


  • #4396
    am_zarathustra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    20% incidence of a symptom does not make it indicative......especially when it is a symptom of so many other illnesses. It's close to 80% for fever and almost the same for a cough, these are reliable indicators.

    GPs would be overrun if every parent with a kid with a runny nose demanded a test. If they have a runny nose and a temperature then they are in the catagory for isolation and testing. Someone should really make a Venn diagram of the symptoms


  • #4397
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    The GPs point was valid . A runny nose in isolation with no other symptoms is far more likely not to be Covid . It is a symptom of Covid but very rarely in isolation
    We all know kids whose nose drips on a permanent basis . A parent will know that their childs nose had dripped since last Christmas and her point is that its normal for that child

    No the GP doesn't have a ****ing point, upwards of 40% of cases are asymptomatic, other symptoms are runny nose, sore throat, dry cough, sneezing (which if they do have the virus increases spread radius) high temperature, diarrhea, loss of taste and smell and on and on, they have no bloody idea what the main symptoms are as different people display such differing symptoms. To say with certainty that we don't have to worry about sneezing or runny noses is downright dangerous.


  • #4398
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Just learn to live with it for god sake.


  • #4399
    combat14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭combat14


    average_runner wrote: »
    Just learn to live with it for god sake.

    tell that to all that who have died and continue to do so


  • #4400
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    No the GP doesn't have a ****ing point, upwards of 40% of cases are asymptomatic, other symptoms are runny nose, sore throat, dry cough, sneezing (which if they do have the virus increases spread radius) high temperature, diarrhea, loss of taste and smell and on and on, they have no bloody idea what the main symptoms are as different people display such differing symptoms. To say with certainty that we don't have to worry about sneezing or runny noses is downright dangerous.

    Calm down . I said a runny nose in isolation .


  • #4401
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    average_runner wrote: »
    Just learn to live with it for god sake.

    And you seem to be part of the main demographic pushing the "byhookorbycrook" Strategy, sure tis only a flu, get on with it


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  • #4402
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    average_runner wrote: »
    Just learn to live with it for god sake.

    Genuinely not trying to start anything. Honestly, I'm not. I'm asking for my own personal benefit because I wish to try to understand both sides of the fence. Just wondering if you are working from home at the moment?


  • #4403
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    combat14 wrote: »
    tell that to all that who have died and continue to do so


    Yep people dying from it is sad, but locking things down will.cause more deaths as we never get rid of it.

    Sadly life goes on. Let's look after the kids now and get them back to normality


  • #4404
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Calm down . I said a runny nose in isolation .

    Maybe they have only one to two symptoms, doesn't change the fact that they might have covid. Tell you what, tell me what you work at and we can attempt to swap careers for the year where you will be in with 30 kids in a small classroom, some of which have coughs.... In isolation, some might have cold symptoms...... In isolation, some might have no taste or smell symptoms...... In isolation, sure as long as they don't have all the symptoms you and your family and the students you care for will be safe out.


  • #4405
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    average_runner wrote: »
    Yep people dying from it is sad, but locking things down will.cause more deaths as we never get rid of it.

    Sadly life goes on. Let's look after the kids now and get them back to normality

    There is no normal right now, it doesn't exist


  • #4406
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    Maybe they have only one to two symptoms, doesn't change the fact that they might have covid. Tell you what, tell me what you work at and we can attempt to swap careers for the year where you will be in with 30 kids in a small classroom, some of which have coughs.... In isolation, some might have cold symptoms...... In isolation, some might have no taste or smell symptoms...... In isolation, sure as long as they don't have all the symptoms you and your family and the students you care for will be safe out.

    I am a retired paeds nurse . No need to be abrasive


  • #4407
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    Oh ffs, runny noses and sneezing are bloody symptoms, in fact that's the main problem with covid-19, it has many symptoms we would associate with normal illnesses, this is just their way to keep schools open when people and kids are sick waiting for positive results. This is a ****ing travesty at this stage, i am really considering taking a career break or changing careers altogether and I love my job

    neither of those are common symptoms of COVID. in fact they are quite rare. and they are extremely common in the population at all times of year but especially in the winter. if everyone with a snotty nose or sneeze tries to get tested our testing system falls apart like it did in april/may for a time. 3 week delays. and also you would have half the workforce constantly quarantining and half of kids missing days of school at a time.

    it's the right call from the government this time. the symptom criteria for testing was pretty clear for the last 6 months. no need to change that now.


  • #4408
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    Genuinely not trying to start anything. Honestly, I'm not. I'm asking for my own personal benefit because I wish to try to understand both sides of the fence. Just wondering if you are working from home at the moment?

    Answered you privately


  • #4409
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    There is no normal right now, it doesn't exist

    But you don't inflict that on kids, you try things to see if it works.

    People on this thread said it takes 6-8 weeks for a prefab, educate together school across from me got six in one week, insulation completed etc. There is ways to get things done.


  • #4410
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    No the GP doesn't have a ****ing point, upwards of 40% of cases are asymptomatic, other symptoms are runny nose, sore throat, dry cough, sneezing (which if they do have the virus increases spread radius) high temperature, diarrhea, loss of taste and smell and on and on, they have no bloody idea what the main symptoms are as different people display such differing symptoms. To say with certainty that we don't have to worry about sneezing or runny noses is downright dangerous.

    we do know what the main symptoms are though;

    Fever (83-99 percent).
    Cough (59-82 percent).
    Fatigue (44-70 percent).
    Anorexia: loss of appetite (40-84 percent).
    Shortness of breath (31-40 percent).
    Sputum production (28-33 percent).
    Muscle aches (11-35 percent).

    all other symptoms are considered "rare" and many of them could easily be comorbidities.

    https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleId=25945&publicid=745


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  • #4411
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    You know what, I hope ye are all right and that schools will be safe, I am just astounded at the level of risk people are willing to test on their children and families with 7-8 months of data to go by.


This discussion has been closed.
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